[deliquesce]

austin-t wants me to be less dependent on him. spend more time with 'people my own age'. believe in myself more. blah blah blah.

he went on for an hour. i had things i wanted to talk about, but he started the session off and then wouldn't shut up. eventually, we had 10mins left. he kept getting paged and i knew he wanted to attend to whatever the issue was. he asked me if i had anything to ask/say. i asked him if it was ok to keep seeing him and he seemed confused about where the question came from. so i explained a bit and he said it was ok, and he asked if i wanted to see him weekly or fortnightly. i said weekly and he said he wanted fortnightly, because then i could 'live my life more'.

so the deal is that i get 6 sessions weekly, then 6 fortnightly. who knows after that.

but i'm home now and thinking, "**** this. i dont want to see him anymore anyway, if he thinks im too dependent on him". so i'll be independent, like i was before. before i entered therapy and allowed myself to let someone else help me.

i want to send him an email saying all of this. but he's never said it's ok to email (i have his address, but it was for business related stuff). we have an appt set up next week, but i dont want to waste my time by attending. and i'm definitely not up for a phone call.

but then i think, if i'm quitting then why bother emailing anyway. just send a txt saying thanks for help and that should be all that's required.

[lily99]

((((((((((deli))))))))))
it sounds like you're feeling hurt by this. I don't blame you, I'd be feeling bad as well. I'd like to urge you to sleep on this first; you deserve to have your voice heard. If T has been a big presence if your life then believe any changes need to be talked over. And not just told to you in 1 session. Your opinion counts too you know. You know what you need. I can tell by reading your posts on here that you're very insightful, and I think you'd know if you were being overly dependent on him. I really recommend talking about this further.

take care and good luck

[fallenangel337]

(((((((((deli))))))))

Man, that sounds absolutely horrible! I'm baffled that he wouldn't even let you speak! That's really suffocating, especially coming from the person who is supposed to listen to you unconditionally. This is really tough.

However, I agree with lily99 said: I would sleep on it, and see how you feel. I totally get that you were hurt by this...who wouldn't be? but all in all, you have the right to get your point across and let your voice be heard. Even if it does turn out that you discontinue seeing him (which I sincerely hope is not the case), at least you can walk away knowing that you have been heard.

This is such a horrible situation for you, and I'm so so so sorry that you're having to go through this. Stay strong, hon.

[deliquesce]

thank you, both (((((((lily and fallengangel))))))).

it was just a very weird session. he started off by saying he had a few questions he wanted to check in with before he gave me my turn, but he then kind of got carried away and never got around to giving me my turn - until the pager went off and he realised he wanted to wrap up the session. so obviously i wasnt going to go into anything important then.

the thing is, the first thing i did want to talk about was whether he was happy to continue seeing me. i guess he made it pretty clear what his opinion is. i'd already told myself i would just ask, hear his answer, and make my decision from there. i know what i need in therapy and if austin-t can't provide that right now then it's ok - so long as i know i can make whatever decision is in my best interest.

the thing that confused me is that he kept couching it in terms of me being dependent, not having a balanced enough life etc. my suspicion (which he partly confirmed) has been that he is simply too busy to fit me in anymore. and that he's still accepting new clients, so i've been relegated to the sidelines. i'm upset that he made that decision without involving me in it. and it does feel manipulative to then tell me it's for my own good.

anyway. i just sent him a text asking if he would let me send him an email, and explaining that i didnt need a reply so long as we spoke about it next week. if he says yes then i guess i'll go along next week and let him have his say (i'll send my say first in the email). if he says no then i can understand why he wouldn't want to encourage email contact, but it would also make the session not worth my while (i'm feeling far too vulnerable to bring this up in person) and so i guess i can cancel accordingly.

[crystalrose]

omg Deli that is not really what you need for a first session back. I dont know what is going through austin T head he is sounding like he could use some Therapy himself.
How does austin T expect you to have more balance and be around people your age if he isn't going to support to through it. You don't sound that dependent to me? Do you feel dependent?

anyway if you want you can pm me. We are all here for you and will support you through the decision

[ECHOES]

What a very painful session---and especially after being away/apart for a while!! He really dropped this suddenly and seemed to do most of the talking. You still have to talk about this more with him--you didn't get enough of a chance to say what you were experiencing. I hope you will go back and talk more about it.

No wonder breaks bother us. So often it seems like they come back and things change!

[deliquesce]

i actually enjoy breaks. i'm happy knowing T/pdoc are doing non-therapy stuff, and it gives me a chance to play out in the world by myself for a while. this is something that was raised tangentially in our last session before the break, and i made sure that i wrote it down because i know it is difficult for me to address. it's not the sense of being abandoned, but the feeling of not being important enough/worthy enough to even hold a spot as a client. my 'usual' spot got given over to someone else, and i was asked if i wanted to continue at a different site because he was too full in his private clinic. so that's what started this off. i guess i was on the money. austin-t keeps saying i need to trust myself more, and i should've trusted myself on this one.

anyway. he didn't reply to my text. i was expecting a reply but i'm not upset it hasn't happened. maybe he will reply tomorrow, or maybe not. if nothing has happened by monday i'll let him know i'd like to cancel our appt next week.

if he allows me to email him, i'll go back. but if he doesn't then i won't bother. being vulnerable is something i refuse to with people i don't feel safe with. austin-t isn't safe, and hasn't been safe, since the last time i saw him. so i won't be vulnerable with him, but via email might be ok, because he won't see the hurt.

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by crystalrose

How does austin T expect you to have more balance and be around people your age if he isn't going to support to through it. You don't sound that dependent to me? Do you feel dependent?

thanks for the offer to pm, sweetie .

re: being more balanced + people my own age. i don't know where he got that one from. it's not like i hang around with old farts my whole life. i have my 3 girlfriends from high school still. up until december i had my best friends living a block from uni (they moved back to the US ). i go to uni, i have ppl my own age there (not too many friends, but i didnt really get to know anyone last year).

but point being... it's not like the only people i have in my life are austin-t and pdoc. nor is the case that i don't do anything other than uni. i'm back at my part time job, i did a photography course, i went travelling etc. i used to do heaps of stuff until the depression eated them away. but now that it's gone i've been picking it up again.

austin-t telling me he wants me to hang around ppl my own age and be 'more balanced' strikes me as condescending, as if i'm not doing this stuff already. he also said he wants me to continue trying, as if i'm going to be idiotic enough to go "oh look, it's a new year, i'm going to give up now".

the 'dependent' thing is a major trigger for me. i don't feel dependent on him and it hurts that he thinks i am. pdoc has been working with me for 5yrs to stop being so independent, to accept help from other people, to let down my guard a bit etc. and so i thought i was doing well with austin-t, because i had started to let him help me, but apparently that now means i'm dependent and is a bad thing.

more than anything it makes me sad because this is the second therapist i've really tried to work with and it hasn't worked out. i feel sad for pdoc, because it must mean i'm a difficult client, but he's still sticking with me. if i was a good person i would give him a break also.

[darkrunner]

((((((Deli))))))
i know you look at the view count, so I wanted to let you know I read this. I don't have time to respond right now.
I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.

[deliquesce]

you're a darling, ((((darkrunner)))). i'm so grateful you remember that about me and choose to reassure me on that front .

Originally Posted by deliquesce

austin-t telling me he wants me to hang around ppl my own age and be 'more balanced' strikes me as condescending, as if i'm not doing this stuff already. he also said he wants me to continue trying, as if i'm going to be idiotic enough to go "oh look, it's a new year, i'm going to give up now".

Ugh, this kind of thing really makes me angry. When I first started therapy, T would always say at the end of a phone call or phone message "go and focus on your kids". WTF?! That's ALL I DO! I felt that he thought that the "me" that presents for therapy is the same "me" that is out in the world during the other 167 hours a week. Obviously, I wasn't going to go and sit in the therapy room and be a good mom..my kids weren't even THERE. I finally told him that it upset me and actually hurt my feelings when he said that kind of thing to me, and he understood, and has LITERALLY never said it again in 2 years. SO! I am wondering, can you tell Austin-T what you said here? That you ARE spending time living your life, being with friends your own age, etc. And that you find it condescending that he said that to you.

Deli, isn't Austin-T a CBT therapist? I wonder if he is ABLE to do the trauma work with you. I wonder if his focus is 100% "get out there and live your life!"...when what you are needing is some deeper healing?

As much as I understand the urge to just send a text and never go back, I hope you will let yourself go see him at least one more time, if only to tell him how his statement made you feel. If you don't have that conversation with him, he'll never know.

Ugh, I'm sorry therapy is so complicated. It's hard enough to have to deal with the subject matter we deal with in there...and then throw in the whole "relationship" aspect of therapy and it's almost TOO MUCH, you know?

to you, sweet deli

[polarsmom]

so the deal is that i get 6 sessions weekly, then 6 fortnightly. who knows after that.

What does fortnightly mean?

You have therapy 6 times a week? Do you think that maybe your T is trying to free up some of his schedule for a new patient?

[peaches100]

Hi Deli,

I'm sorry this is happening with Austin-t. Very painful stuff!

In thinking about this issue, I feel like something is "amiss." The things Austin-t said don't sound like him. And because he started out the session all prepared to talk about your "dependency" on him, i'm suspecting something has happened since the last time you saw him that has made him "change gears," so to speak. The question is, what?

In reading your posts, i've never picked up on you being overly dependent. It sounds like you have friends your own age, and you've recently traveled, which also shows independence. Also, from what you wrote, it doesn't sound like Austin-t has ever brought up the issue of dependency as a problem before, has he? So something feels really odd to me about this.

You mentioned that he is very busy and that you'd been asked to see him at a different location due to his full schedule. Could it be possible that his superiors are getting on his back about any patients that he is seeing long-term, or who have have very frequent sessions? Perhaps they are telling him he must start spacing their sessions out and helping them become more independent, so as to create room for new patients?

I'm sorry you're hurting. I think you deserve to find out what has prompted this sudden change of attitude on his part. I know Austin-t cares very much for you, and this just doesn't sound like him.

If I were in your shoes, I would leave him a phone message, telling him you need to speak to him briefly and that it's very important (or tell him how you feel in the message). If not that, i would for sure send the email, telling him how you feel. If he is as busy as he appears to be, i would not want to wait several days to find out if it was OK to leave a message, nor would i want to go several days feeling this sort of pain and confusion before getting some kind of explanation.

(((((((Deli))))))) Hang in there.

[rainbow8]

((((Deli)))),

It sounds strange to me too. I've never quite understood your relationships with austin-T vs pdoc, and I apologize for not making time to get them clear. It seems complicated to me. But I'm sorry you're hurting, and I hope you and Austin-T get it straightened out soon!!

P.S. I hated when my T started talking about something that she thought was important to me, and there went everything I had planned! Usually I tuned her out, so it was a waste for both of us! It's YOUR session, not HIS.

[Snakebit]

deliquesce,

Originally Posted by deliquesce

more than anything it makes me sad because this is the second therapist i've really tried to work with and it hasn't worked out. i feel sad for pdoc, because it must mean i'm a difficult client, but he's still sticking with me. if i was a good person i would give him a break also.

It does NOT mean you are a difficult client. It means that you may have not found the right therapist.

I had two therapists, one right after the other, take me on as a client and then decide to move away! I was so discouraged. The first question I asked my next therapist was what his plans were for the next 2 years, i.e., was he planning to stay in town?

After working with him, I realize that the first 2 Ts moving out of town was the best thing that could have happened to me. He is heads and shoulders above them in understanding me, having compassion, and helping me get through some bad times.

I would keep my next appointment letting Austin-T know how you feel (if you have not been able to email him/call him). But from what you have typed, this is his issue, not yours.

[googley]

(((((Deli))))

I was also thinking that this was weird. I remember a little while ago (though don't remember exactly how long ago) that austin-t suggested that you just see him and not see pdoc also. It seems strange that he would now be suggesting that you not see him.

The only other thing that I could think of (and have no idea if this is what he is thinking or not) is that he is thinking about the offer he made to be your supervisor and is uncomfortable being your T at the same time. Maybe he is trying to limit your T work so that you can transition into him being your supervisor (but he did it in a bad way?) I know in the US that professional guidelines would highly be against that kind of dual relationship. It would be hard to separate out what is T and what is supervision. What you are paying for and what you are talking about etc. Feel free to totally reject this hypothesis as totally unfounded, I will not be upset at all.

I just want you to feel safe and feel better.

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by polarsmom

What does fortnightly mean?

You have therapy 6 times a week? Do you think that maybe your T is trying to free up some of his schedule for a new patient?

no, she means she will see him weekly for 6 weeks and then every other week for 6 sessions. A fortnight=2 weeks.

I am always a little baffled when I read/hear about T's not wanting us to be dependent on them. Is that not the point? I mean, it is so hard (maybe not for everyone, but for a lot of us, anyway) to go in there and learn to trust the T, and to open up and to learn that it's ok to depend emotionally on someone. And then they (some of them, sometimes) say we are too dependent. This has never happened to me but it hits my abandonment triggers just reading about it, seriously. I can only imagine the confusion I would feel if T said that to me or acted the way austin-t is acting towards to you, deli. I am sorry.

((((((((((deli)))))))))))

austin-t is acting kinda crazy and erratic. maybe he's off his meds. seriously, i'm sorry he's telling you to go live life more when you are so doing that already. you just got back from japan! how much more living life is there then world traveling, graduating from college, etc. and you are hardly the dependent type. like me, you seem ridiculously independent. can you go back to seeing pdoc regularly if things don't work out with austin-t? maybe that would work better? i'm sorry you're having to deal with this deli.

[deliquesce]

thanks for all of your replies. i'll try to keep mine brief (heading off to work shortly).

Originally Posted by peaches100

In reading your posts, i've never picked up on you being overly dependent. It sounds like you have friends your own age, and you've recently traveled, which also shows independence....

Could it be possible that his superiors are getting on his back about any patients that he is seeing long-term, or who have have very frequent sessions? Perhaps they are telling him he must start spacing their sessions out and helping them become more independent, so as to create room for new patients?

the travel thing struck me as odd - he said to me how he was surprised that i actually did end up going. i was a bit like . at one point (when i was trying to pack/organise everything) i did feel like "this is not worth it", but i did end up going off, and i'm kind of disappointed that he questioned me in that way.

re: your hypothesis. wish it was the case, but austin-t is top gun. i was seeing him in his private practice before, and now he's moved me to his other spot (it's a counselling centre) at which he's mother superior also. so any decision re: therapy is ultimately made by him. and i'm confused why he would need to create space for new clients at the expense of his currently existing ones?

Originally Posted by treehouse

SO! I am wondering, can you tell Austin-T what you said here? That you ARE spending time living your life, being with friends your own age, etc. And that you find it condescending that he said that to you.

Deli, isn't Austin-T a CBT therapist? I wonder if he is ABLE to do the trauma work with you. I wonder if his focus is 100% "get out there and live your life!"...when what you are needing is some deeper healing?

thanks, tree. i might leave the condescending comment for another day, if it ever comes up again. i think he was into this big "it's a new year, a new you" mode yesterday & trying to be all inspirational, but he was just telling me things i've done all along anyway so it rubbed me up the wrong way. i kept asking him to give me specifics (how do you mean keep persevering? how am i meant to do it differently from before?) but he was just like "oh, like you've always done".

austin-t does do CBT, but that's mainly at my request (given the issues we've worked with before). his personal preference is for DBT and object-relations therapy, and we've moved away from the CBT model recently where it's been appropriate. at the moment i'm trying to stay away from trauma stuff, because the big issue revolves around moving out of home and i dont need trauma work interfering (and i dont trust austin-t enough to go into that just yet).

Originally Posted by rainbow8

It sounds strange to me too. I've never quite understood your relationships with austin-T vs pdoc, and I apologize for not making time to get them clear. It seems complicated to me.

no apologies required! i've been seeing pdoc for meds for 5yrs now. when i started seeing him, no amount of medication was helping (we've finally struck gold on the 13th try) so pdoc referred me to a psychologist just to help me with managing uni (i kept withdrawing due to the depression). pdoc has never been exclusively meds-only, so we've always talked about my family and stuff and how things are going. i only told him last year (after 4 years of being together) about the abuse stuff, so he's let me work that stuff out with him because i dont trust people easily at all and it would be counterproductive to get me to work it through with a different therapist if they also had to wait four years.

with austin-t in the picture, it's turned more into pdoc being my safety blanket. he looks after me a lot and i feel safe with him. austin-t does the hard work, in terms of getting results, but i take more risks with disclosure in telling pdoc things. it's kind of like pdoc works on relationships with me (slowly, gently, tangentially), and austin-t does everything else.

Originally Posted by Snakebit

It does NOT mean you are a difficult client. It means that you may have not found the right therapist. But from what you have typed, this is his issue, not yours.

thank you for saying ths, snakebit. i'll try to keep it in mind. it's not necessarily me that is bad.

Originally Posted by googley

(((((Deli))))

I was also thinking that this was weird. I remember a little while ago (though don't remember exactly how long ago) that austin-t suggested that you just see him and not see pdoc also. It seems strange that he would now be suggesting that you not see him.

The only other thing that I could think of (and have no idea if this is what he is thinking or not) is that he is thinking about the offer he made to be your supervisor and is uncomfortable being your T at the same time. Maybe he is trying to limit your T work so that you can transition into him being your supervisor (but he did it in a bad way?) I know in the US that professional guidelines would highly be against that kind of dual relationship. It would be hard to separate out what is T and what is supervision. What you are paying for and what you are talking about etc. Feel free to totally reject this hypothesis as totally unfounded, I will not be upset at all.

I just want you to feel safe and feel better.

googley - yeah, it's interesting you remember that! when i asked austin-t if it was ok to keep seeing him, he did immediately jump to that conversation and started talking about the ethics of it all. he said there wasn't anything unethical about what we're doing and that he had sorted things out with pdoc. the supervisor thing is also not likely, just because that would only happen a few years away (2 at least, and it's not set in stone). i'd rather have him as a therapist than as a supervisor, anyway.

gosh, i feel upset with austin-t. i was really depressed about it yesterday but today i'm just upset. it's not going to spoil my day but i feel like shaking him and saying "pull yourself together!". if you want me to be less dependent, then stop telling me what to do (especially when they are things i'm already doing). and don't ask me questions (weekly or fortnightly?) and create the illusion that i have a choice, when you've already decided what you would like and what you will offer and that weekly isn't an option.

Originally Posted by zooropa

I am always a little baffled when I read/hear about T's not wanting us to be dependent on them. Is that not the point? I mean, it is so hard (maybe not for everyone, but for a lot of us, anyway) to go in there and learn to trust the T, and to open up and to learn that it's ok to depend emotionally on someone. And then they (some of them, sometimes) say we are too dependent. This has never happened to me but it hits my abandonment triggers just reading about it, seriously. I can only imagine the confusion I would feel if T said that to me or acted the way austin-t is acting towards to you, deli. I am sorry.

thanks, zoo . i can understand being too dependent, but i'm angry because my life does not!! revolve around him, and i make decisions on my own and i've been doing things on my own. he has taught me a lot since april, for sure, but it's been me putting all of that into action.

i know i have rubbed previous therapists up the wrong way - i always let the last decision fall with me, i don't just take their word as gospel and try it out unless it makes sense or seems beneficial. pdoc sometimes says "just trust me, deli!!" and he's the only person allowed to say that because he's the only person i will trust.

i've never had a fear of abandonment, because 'abandonment' kind of sounds like if the other person left, then i wouldn't be able to cope. i know i will cope, i certainly don't need other people in my life. my biggest insecurity is the fear of rejection, though - i want other people, even if i dont need them. and i'm angry at austin-t right now because it feels like i'm being rejected for something that isn't even true of me (being dependent).

UGH!

(haha, not such a short reply afterall ).

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by bloom3

((((((((((deli)))))))))))

austin-t is acting kinda crazy and erratic. maybe he's off his meds. seriously, i'm sorry he's telling you to go live life more when you are so doing that already. you just got back from japan! how much more living life is there then world traveling, graduating from college, etc. and you are hardly the dependent type. like me, you seem ridiculously independent. can you go back to seeing pdoc regularly if things don't work out with austin-t? maybe that would work better? i'm sorry you're having to deal with this deli.

thanks sweetie. i'm glad you see me as independent, at least. pdoc does too, so at least i have a few people on my side . pdoc is on leave now but yeah, if things don't work out i'll just go back to him and it'll be ok. we've survived 5 years together so far.

the thing is, i know there is a lot of potential with austin-t: probably moreso than with pdoc, just because of their different training and experience. so i'd be sad to let this opportunity go.

but, at the same time, i know what i need to feel safe, and austin-t aint checking any one of those boxes at the moment. i'm not prepared to mess around with someone i don't feel safe with again (had that experience with old-t), so i guess it'll be sad but i would also be proud of myself for terminating if we can't figure this one out. i'm upset at myself for sticking with old-t for as long as i did, and i promised myself i wouldn't do it again. so either way, things will be ok.

[sittingatwatersedge]

(((((( Deli ))))))
this is a tough one. But your thinking is sound, from here.

[lily99]

hey deli, just had to quickly write -
I really take issue with "too dependent". I can understand a client believing this is true of them, but I think it's strange for T to say it. I said this many times, particularly earlier on in therapy. And T's response was always "Well, what is 'too dependent'?" or "What is too attached?" It was really helpful to clear up my own perceptions about it. Because what I believed I needed to act and be like was someone who didn't need therapy, whereas the reality is we do NEED our T's and we we need to DEPEND on them for our healing.

If your T can't handle that, then I suspect this is his "stuff" and not yours Deli.
Hope you're okay

[BlueMoon6]

((((Deli)))) I also want to echo the words said by everyone else. I find it really strange that Austin-t seems to have switched gears with you. I remember hiim wanting to see you and to have enough of a separation between what you do with pdoc and what you do with him. It didnt seem then that he was looking for you to become more independent of him. When he went to South Africa, I remember there were some comments (correct me if Im wrong) about what to do and what kind of therapy when he returned. I also never go the feeling you were terribly dependent on him. Your comfort and confidant was pdoc. Which was probably not the best situation, but you did keep things from him, too.

I dont like this stuff about being too dependent. Unless a client is really very dependent for their daily existence on their therapist, but even then it may be what that person needs at that time. You have always been social, you traveled with friends, you work, you are very well-liked, you worked VERY VERY hard to get the degree you have. WTF? That maked me kind of angry.

And to have more balance and be with friends your own age? I dont see this as an issue for you. And you posted that you dont either. The only conclusion I can reach is that HE, personally, has some reason for this change that doesnt have to do with you. It sounds hard to believe, but maybe it is so. And if you dont feel comfortable doing trauma work, which I can understand since you are just now moving out of the scene of the crime, you will for sure want to be with someone you can imagine being yourself with. That will be really important. I wonder if either pdoc or austin-t fits the bill? Could it be that you have gone as far as you can go with him?

I suppose you can play it by ear and wait to see what he says if he txts you back, but I dont know if Id feel comfortable saying this stuff in person to him either.

I have to say, dt made those same stupid remarks (like Tree's T) about going back to your kids (after a sesison) and this was the f***ing focus of her therapy with me. That I was focusing on myself too much. Is she for real? When T's get it wrong, it hurts all the more. Im surprised Ausitn-t said these things as he should know you well enough by now.

[googley]

((((Deli)))))

Please take care of yourself. Just wanting to let you know I'm thinking of you.

[wonderingmary]

I agree with others that something is going on with austin-t. With luck, it was just a bad day for him. If that is the case, then another session will probably smooth things over. But if not, then it's time to leave and either work just with p-doc or find someone else. I know it can be so disconcerting when you think things are going OK, but then one day the t starts acting so differently than before. My last t started acting differently on what was indeed a bad day for him (early in the session he apologized for being tired, but explained that it was because he had taken his wife for an invasive diagnostic procedure early that morning). But then he continued the trend the next session and the relationship ceased being helpful. I just now thought about the possibility that perhaps his wife had been diagnosed with cancer as a result of the procedure and that worry was interfering with his ability to function well as a therapist. I wonder if I things would have gone better if I had asked the next week how his wife was. I wonder if there is anyone you could discretely ask if there is anything different in his life that might be affecting his behavior.