[Melbadaze]

Please don't judge me on this, but when I was a teenager, early 20's and a very active alcoholic, I use to hang with like mind folk in dingy places. I've witnessed fights and would find them exhilarating. Perhaps that was all I could manage to feel back then I'm not sure.

Yesterday I was standing in line in a dept store and to women in front of me began bickering, then suddenly one slapped out and the other grabbed her hair and I side stepped out of the way and immediately turned away and stood looking away and found it disturbing, but it was in this feeling of finding it disturbing that I realized I'd connected with real feelings, as disturbing as it felt, it was comforting for me to feel this, to find it disturbing, to be able to see what had happened as a form of "madness" on behalf of the 2 women involved.

I realized then that being alive means feeling disturbing feelings as well as nice feelings, and this is what I have been missing all my early life, the ability to feel anything, always avoiding it, but now seeing that its this that we need to feel, all our feelings, we can't just feel the good and be fully alive, we've got to feel that which repulses us too. I'm always thinking, yuk don't want to feel that, but I felt more human in that moment of repulsion then I've felt in a long time.

Thanks for this Melba. This is a truth I am also trying to come to grips with.

[chaotic13]

I've had several experiences since unfreezing where I've found myself connecting with people and experiencing...real empathy. A few times afterwards I realized that I had been in similar situations in the past and hadn't felt anything. IDK...for me it just feels like I have a whole other part of my brain working how...its a mixed bag, but I don't want to go back to being numb.

[mixedup_emotions]

Oh Melba, you are so right on with this....

....I am still at a place where I don't want to feel - because there are too many awful feelings, and not enough good feelings to counter it...My T believes that it's progress that "I'm feeling now" and that feeling discomfort pushes us to change.

Perhaps I should consider that.....to feel is to be alive....

[BlueMoon6]

Melba- You know what I connect with about this? Its hard to describe, but I'll try. I think yrs ago I would have been fascinated or even interested in watching what the heck these 2 women could possibly do to each other on line in the store. There would have been maybe even a kind of acting out my aggressive feelings by watching their fight in that. But now, exactly like you said, my feelings would reflect a more empathetic and "normal" reaction to one person causing another person physical pain. I would be disturbed and would feel hurt for the person whose hair was pulled or hit or whatever.

I think you are right, it makes us more human and more connected to our true selves as opposed to working out our own issues through other people. Wow.

[zooropa]

this has been a huge part of my journey in the past 6 mos or so. Starting to feel things for the first time in so long. Realizing that in trying to be numb to keep out the bad stuff, I was keeping out all the good stuff, too.
It reminds me of something the writer Anne Lamott said in an essay she wrote about grief shortly after her best friend died. She said she had to ask herself "how alive do you want to be right now?"
Because being numb to pain is being numb to everything, and how alive IS that?

Me too. I was numb so much probably because of PTSD and my horrid past. I was abused for crying. You soon learn to become a robot, it is safer that way in that situation.

BUt as an adult, that doesn't work so well. My T now, one of the first things we worked on was feeling whatever and identifying it. I have gone from I dont' know what I feel to actually being able to name it. Then I have to learn to be okay with that feeling-knowing that feelings come and go, the bad ones are hard. Then part I am in now is learning to regulate my reactions to those feelings. It is like being a toddler, learning the rules of feelings and learning how not to act out. It is hard. If I saw what you did in the store, it would have triggered me badly. Hope you are okay.

Originally Posted by zooropa

Realizing that in trying to be numb to keep out the bad stuff, I was keeping out all the good stuff, too.
It reminds me of something the writer Anne Lamott said in an essay she wrote about grief shortly after her best friend died. She said she had to ask herself "how alive do you want to be right now?"
Because being numb to pain is being numb to everything, and how alive IS that?

This is really good!

[zooropa]

I've worked on recognizing and tolerating my emotions w/T a lot, too. It's a big part of DBT. At first I couldn't do it, at all. She would ask me what I was feeling and I had no idea, and I would get pretty distressed because I felt like I HAD to have an answer for her but I didn't have one, just a big blank.

I remember when I first started "unfreezing", first started feeling things, I kind of thought I was going crazy, I remember telling a friend "I don't know what's wrong with me, I have these crazy mood swings all the time, sometimes from one minute to the next" and she said "zoo, I don't think those are mood swings, I think those are feelings..." I had no idea!

Now, I sometimes miss that numbness, especially when I'm flooded with flashbacks and crap from the past. I told my T one day that I wish I could have a lobotomy so I wouldn't have to feel my emotions any more and she said "but then you wouldn't feel any of the GOOD emotions either". Sometimes it seems like all the emotions I feel are the hard ones, it's good to remember there are some NICE ones too!

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by zooropa

I remember when I first started "unfreezing", first started feeling things, I kind of thought I was going crazy, I remember telling a friend "I don't know what's wrong with me, I have these crazy mood swings all the time, sometimes from one minute to the next" and she said "zoo, I don't think those are mood swings, I think those are feelings..." I had no idea!

WOW.....This is totally where I am!! I am all over the map over the last couple months, and here I am thinking that I'm losing it. And I am not liking it one bit, because many times I can't seem to pinpoint why I am feeling what I am feeling.

Lately, it's been this jittery, sadness, anxious, butterfly feeling in the pit of my stomach where I feel on the edge of crying, but the tears don't come. I hate it. And I don't know what's causing it. Grrr. Wish I could figure it out - that way, I can do something about it. Otherwise, I'm just playing guessing games.

[zooropa]

(((MUE))) that sounds SO much like me, knowing I'm feeling something but not knowing what that something is. One thing I worked on, w/T and on my own, was figuring out where in my body I felt it. That was REALLY hard for me at first because I don't like to feel things in my body. But it's gotten a little easier. It sounds like you are already there, somewhat, you know you have that butterflies in the pit of your stomach feeling for example.

The other thing was that my T gave me a list of emotions and I spent a lot of time reading it when I knew I was feeling something but I didn't know what. I did a lot of journaling, I'd write where in my body I felt it and then I'd look through this long 2-page list of emotions and try to pick the one that was closest to what I was feeling.

Anyway, that helped me in the beginning stages of that 'unthawing' but that was just a few months ago and I still have to work at it. I still can't cry, for example. Oh, every now and then a movie or something might make me cry but that's pretty rare. I know my T is kind of expecting me to cry as we go through trauma stuff, but I can't, it's just not there. I wish I could cry, I just can't.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by zooropa

(((MUE))) that sounds SO much like me, knowing I'm feeling something but not knowing what that something is. One thing I worked on, w/T and on my own, was figuring out where in my body I felt it. That was REALLY hard for me at first because I don't like to feel things in my body. But it's gotten a little easier. It sounds like you are already there, somewhat, you know you have that butterflies in the pit of your stomach feeling for example.

The other thing was that my T gave me a list of emotions and I spent a lot of time reading it when I knew I was feeling something but I didn't know what. I did a lot of journaling, I'd write where in my body I felt it and then I'd look through this long 2-page list of emotions and try to pick the one that was closest to what I was feeling.

Anyway, that helped me in the beginning stages of that 'unthawing' but that was just a few months ago and I still have to work at it. I still can't cry, for example. Oh, every now and then a movie or something might make me cry but that's pretty rare. I know my T is kind of expecting me to cry as we go through trauma stuff, but I can't, it's just not there. I wish I could cry, I just can't.

I'm glad I'm not alone...

So, I've identified where the feeling is....and kinda what it feels like....but am still at a loss as to what is causing it. Maybe if I sit with it a while and go through different aspects of my life, something might cause a surge of that feeling - which would help. But I am avoiding that exercise, because it stirs up all sorts of feelings and I wouldn't want to be overwhelmed with all of them at once, just by going through the exercise.

I have cried before in T....only once or twice....and I've cried in group T a few times as well. Most of it, though, was talking about specific issues - and there wasn't this unexplainable feeling in the pit of my stomach. It just kinda happened, with lots of resistance too.

*sigh*

[pinkcorr]

Wow thanks for sharing that. Its something I'm working on just now. For years I've found it difficult to feel things especially intense feelings- good or bad. I wasn't allowed to feel sad or angry as a child. So I had to hide those feelings in particular. I was just thinking about what one of my T's said to me recently about finding it hard to feel things intensely. At the moment I'm allowing myself to feel things, talk about them and not do something destructive to myself to get rid of the feelings.

[pinkcorr]

Originally Posted by zooropa

(((MUE))) that sounds SO much like me, knowing I'm feeling something but not knowing what that something is. One thing I worked on, w/T and on my own, was figuring out where in my body I felt it. That was REALLY hard for me at first because I don't like to feel things in my body. But it's gotten a little easier. It sounds like you are already there, somewhat, you know you have that butterflies in the pit of your stomach feeling for example.

The other thing was that my T gave me a list of emotions and I spent a lot of time reading it when I knew I was feeling something but I didn't know what. I did a lot of journaling, I'd write where in my body I felt it and then I'd look through this long 2-page list of emotions and try to pick the one that was closest to what I was feeling.

Anyway, that helped me in the beginning stages of that 'unthawing' but that was just a few months ago and I still have to work at it. I still can't cry, for example. Oh, every now and then a movie or something might make me cry but that's pretty rare. I know my T is kind of expecting me to cry as we go through trauma stuff, but I can't, it's just not there. I wish I could cry, I just can't.

I never used to cry, I was in therapy for 4 years and I cried twice. When I started therapy again last year I started being able to allow myself to cry, one of the main reasons I think I can cry now is that my therapists have reinforced time and time again that I am allowed to be upset. And I guess the fact that I'm not on any heavy medication now that numbed everything. Just thought I would share that with you Zoo.

[mixedup_emotions]

pinkcorr, I can relate to resorting to destructive behavior to avoid the feelings. Most recently, it was the overuse of narcotic pain medication...now I'm not doing that, so perhaps it's just my real feelings that I am just feeling, instead of numbing. Ugh.

[mixedup_emotions]

Now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps it is something I should address with my T....

The last time I was an absolute mess, crying at the drop of a dime, non-functional at work, etc. It was several days after my divorce, and I was in a bad, bad place, emotionally.

One thing after another was going wrong in my house...and then finally the freezer went, and all my frozen foods were destroyed - and I lost it. I was imagining being in a casket with my dad who passed away, missing him, etc. - immersed myself in depressing, angry music. I didn't know what was going on with me.

Finally, I reached out to T, and we talked through it....it took a while, but then he asked me how I was feeling the day before the freezer incident happened. I said, angry. He asked if I could say a little more. It was then that I shared that on the night of my divorce, a close friend of mine shared with me how my husband had been trying to get her to sleep with him, bought her a kinky outfit, put his hands up the back of her shirt, etc. while we were married.

I hadn't put two and two together that it affected me so much. I hadn't even thought of that AT ALL while I was in that bad, bad place.

So, perhaps if I talk this through with T, I might be able to figure it out. But I'm scared. I would rather be numb.

[zooropa]

MUE, that must have been so hurtful to hear that. I'm sorry. I can definitely relate to being scared, too, and to wanting to be numb again. Of course everyone is going to say YES, talk to your T about it! And I'm no different. Talk to your T, maybe starting with how you're scared about what it's going to bring up?

And yes! I have used various destructive behaviors to avoid feelings for years. Heck, I just did it again 2 days ago. I do it a lot less now but it's so hard to not fall back on that when the feelings get overwhelming. Because it does work, in the short term. But in the long term, it just makes things worse. I need to try to remember that next and CARE about that next time...

My T also asks where I feel things. That seems to tell her something usually on what kind of emotion I am feeling.

The thing were you go up and down with the emotions, after you unfreeze sounds so common in this thread.

I know my T says to ride the wave. Feeling will come and go and just allow yourself to feel whatever it feels. That was huge for me, because feeling is new to me. When I started to feel, I couldn't handle the intensity of it.

Last week I told my T that I am sad with some anxiety with it. She told me that anger is easy for me to feel, I am like this person did this to me, and they are an asshole and I won't talk to them again. But sadness feels more uncontrollable, so anxiety comes along with it, if you are not used to feeling sad.
The one thing I have found that works well with overwhelming feelings is exercise or just a walk around the block. It is amazing to me on just how well this works. Gets you breathing deeper, gets the tension out...and normally I feel better afterwards. At least I sleep better at night.

[zooropa]

my T has told me time and again that emotions are like waves, they come and they go. Because like you, exotic, when I started to feel I couldn't handle the intensity of the feeling. And I still get caught up in my thoughts about what I'm feeling, especially if it's a difficult emotion I tend to think "omg, I'm going to feel like this FOREVER, it's not going to stop!" whereas when I'm happy I think "oh, this is nice, but it's not gonna last"

Anyway, my T has really stressed with me the importance of remembering that emotions don't last, even the really really big ones, they don't stick around forever. Even the flashbacks and the terror, it comes and it goes, and not only that, but it goes away sooner if I just LET IT COME.

That was, IS, so hard for me. I want to tense up and brace myself for the onslaught of emotion and clench my teeth and my fists and resist it, but if I can relax and open my hands and let it wash over me, it's not so bad. But wow, that's hard to do. My poor T has to tell me time and time and time again. Sigh. Someday it'll sink in. Maybe?

It has taken me a year to learn this with her and now when it seems like SHE gets worried after a heavy session with me, I tell her, well you taught me that the feelings don't last. I tell her I know I can handle it, I will just ride the wave. She always smiles then. Just knowing that, has left me brave enough to keep diving into the hard stuff. I told her she needs to have a surfing board in her office to remind clients of that. lol But when the waves are bad, I say they are tsunami waves, but even those eventually calm down.

[hangingon]

Mel,
I can so relate. Lately, I can barely sit down to watch a movie, things that never disturbed me before really get to me now. I would watch the craziest movies and they would never bother me, now even simple ones affect me, it's rather strange.

I literally had 15-20 minutes of balling in my last session. I had no idea it was going to happen. I felt nauseous and told my T that I just needed to lay my head on the arm of the chair for a minute. She told me that I could get the pillow and lay down on the floor if I wanted to but I stayed in the chair. All of a sudden the tears started coming, and I couldn't stop them. I hid my face behind my arms and just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. She was really great about it and being there for me during it because she knows I try so hard to hold my feelings deep within.
The hard part was she asked me what I was feeling, if I could use words, and I couldn't, I couldn't tell her anything because I really didn't know.

I have never really allowed myself to feel my emotions before, now they are starting to show, kind of scary but I am sure healthy in the same sense.

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by exoticflower

It has taken me a year to learn this with her and now when it seems like SHE gets worried after a heavy session with me, I tell her, well you taught me that the feelings don't last. I tell her I know I can handle it, I will just ride the wave. She always smiles then. Just knowing that, has left me brave enough to keep diving into the hard stuff. I told her she needs to have a surfing board in her office to remind clients of that. lol But when the waves are bad, I say they are tsunami waves, but even those eventually calm down.

that's funny because my T said that to me the other day, probably last week one time when I called her one time when I was freaking out & having a panic attack/flashback episode. She reminded me again that emotions are like waves and she said "it's just that you get this with these huge tsunamis sometimes, but it's still a wave and it'll still pass"

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by hangingon

Mel,
I can so relate. Lately, I can barely sit down to watch a movie, things that never disturbed me before really get to me now. I would watch the craziest movies and they would never bother me, now even simple ones affect me, it's rather strange.

I literally had 15-20 minutes of balling in my last session. I had no idea it was going to happen. I felt nauseous and told my T that I just needed to lay my head on the arm of the chair for a minute. She told me that I could get the pillow and lay down on the floor if I wanted to but I stayed in the chair. All of a sudden the tears started coming, and I couldn't stop them. I hid my face behind my arms and just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. She was really great about it and being there for me during it because she knows I try so hard to hold my feelings deep within.
The hard part was she asked me what I was feeling, if I could use words, and I couldn't, I couldn't tell her anything because I really didn't know.

I have never really allowed myself to feel my emotions before, now they are starting to show, kind of scary but I am sure healthy in the same sense.

hi hanginon! i have missed you. good for you for feeling. i hope to get there one day.

Originally Posted by zooropa

that's funny because my T said that to me the other day, probably last week one time when I called her one time when I was freaking out & having a panic attack/flashback episode. She reminded me again that emotions are like waves and she said "it's just that you get this with these huge tsunamis sometimes, but it's still a wave and it'll still pass"

zoo,

are you sure you are where you say you are, in the North West? It would be funny if we had the same T.

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by hangingon

Mel,
I can so relate. Lately, I can barely sit down to watch a movie, things that never disturbed me before really get to me now. I would watch the craziest movies and they would never bother me, now even simple ones affect me, it's rather strange.

I literally had 15-20 minutes of balling in my last session. I had no idea it was going to happen. I felt nauseous and told my T that I just needed to lay my head on the arm of the chair for a minute. She told me that I could get the pillow and lay down on the floor if I wanted to but I stayed in the chair. All of a sudden the tears started coming, and I couldn't stop them. I hid my face behind my arms and just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. She was really great about it and being there for me during it because she knows I try so hard to hold my feelings deep within.
The hard part was she asked me what I was feeling, if I could use words, and I couldn't, I couldn't tell her anything because I really didn't know.
.

I have been experiencing the same thing with movies and tv shows, I hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it but I have to be really careful lately about what I watch because I'm really easily triggered, where before I could watch or read anything without it bothering me.

That's amazing, what you experienced in your last session, hangingon. I can't imagine what that must have been like, to have those tears come like that when you weren't even expecting it. It must have felt good on some levels and overwhelming at the same time. I'm kind of jealous. I wish I could cry. I guess it'll come when it's time, right?

Originally Posted by exoticflower

zoo,

are you sure you are where you say you are, in the North West? It would be funny if we had the same T.

pretty sure, yup! how weird would it be to find out you had the same T as someone here??? yikes!