Actively choosing to use what I know

This could be fighting the feelings and not allowing them?

Oh probably. That's why we processed through my thoughts and feelings that day.

FG, I get the feeling that your T likes things "nice and clean" and that things (like feelings) can be packaged up nice and pretty if we just have a strong enough will to put those buggers aside. Now I'm sure that your T cares a lot about you and he wants the absolute best for you and that he wants you healed. It just seems that the route that you both are taking is the zip train, but with feelings the fastest way there is the slowest. (I heard someone around here somewhere make this statement!) Feelings from the past can't be put away quickly. They need to be allowed. We all here have spent our childhoods where our feelings weren't allowed. It just isn't right if it happens in therapy too.........

I'd say you really have it wrong. I've been working intensively with on thoughts and feelings for years. This IS a slow process. You have to realize that by the time I got into therapy with my current t, I had had very good therapy with two other t's at earlier times in my life for a total of 6 yearsish.

My current t, he is all about thoughts and feelings. That is what I am always working on. About the past, about the present, heck, about the future too. What you may be objecting to is the idea of setting the memories aside. That doesn't mean I set the feelings aside, just the memories. I look at the thoughts and feelings associated with the memories, and especially at what those past memories mean to me now. But I don't need or want to keep replaying those old memories on a continuous loop. Once is enough. I know what happened. Seeing it over and over and over again doesn't change the memory itself. I can choose to set that aside and focus on what really matters, the thoughts and feelings I associate with the memories.

No zip train here.

I can see how you can look at the thoughts but I can't see how you can look at the feelings. The feelings are to be experienced.

And I'm not talking about the memories at all, just the feelings.......

For me it is all part of a process. If I can identify my thoughts, I can then recognize the feelings that I have associated with that thinking. They go together. If I can lean toward more rational thought, the feelings that were often based on mistaken beliefs, will resolve pretty peacefully. One doesn't happen without the other.

Just got back to the computer . . .

Let me see if I can give you specific example.

A few weeks back I was angry/rageful. That I had figured out and I knew what memories from the past those feelings were associated with. But what was I thinking that was causing those feelings to come up? I realized I was thinking about a situation with my son in present day, and once I looked at my thoughts, I had to realize that my thinking that was actually bringing up that anger was totally irrational. My thinking had NO basis in fact. Once I could sort out that thinking, the anger subsided naturally.

If you can understand the thinking behind your feelings, you can get to the real issue and the feelings resolve quite naturally. I've never found an incidence where that isn't true. If I was fearful because of a flashback, I could look at what my thinking was at the time. I can understand where those feelings are coming from. I can understand that I'm no longer in that situation. I can understand that I am safe as an adult. Understanding is pretty powerful. It's not like a light switch though. I have to work through it every single time.

Hi FG, yeah, I understand what you are saying about this and I agree. I see a part though that is different IMO. Feelings form when we are children, especially to situations that weren't good. And of course we were unable to express these feelings as children. If we don't let these feelings out in therapy they will continue to be held within. If they stay here like this they can continue to be triggered, like you are describing. If you just let the darn things out you don't have to do all of these mental gymnastics to keep things under control.

And when I say let them out I really mean to allow them to come out and not be controlled by anyone or anyone saying, "okay, I see a little bit of them, now package them up and put them away so that you can be under control again".

Good morning, Sannah.

But the feelings I have been dealing with in therapy are really about more current issues, not old stuff. I see what you are saying, but it doesn't really apply to what I am experiencing. Make sense?

I thought you told us a few weeks ago that old stuff was being triggered?

Yes, but the problem wasn't about the old stuff. I personally feel that if old stuff is being triggered by what's going on right now, the real issue is the new stuff. The way to get past being triggered all the time, in my book, is to deal with the real issues, the current issues. Get my thinking focused on what is really bugging me. And the old stuff just isn't it. I know we disagree about this, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't consider it mental gymnastics; I consider it rational thinking. No one is forcing me to do it this way. I truly believe that this way is quite healthy. It's a cbt based approach. Not everyone likes it, but I really do. You say tomayto; I say tomahto.

Yeah, I guess we will have to continue to agree to disagree. I have extinguished a lot of triggers by unloading the buried feelings and I think that it works really well. I always say "go to the source and stop it there". Once the seed is gone nothing in the present can trigger you anymore.........

Yes, and I would say the "source" is current issues, stop it there; the history is just noise. Deal with the current issues, and the triggers lessen on their own. The more I've worked this way, the fewer the triggers have become. That's great progress for me. Just shows that there are many ways to approach mental health issues. It's not a one size fits all environment. Well, off to class now. I'll be back later. Ta-ta for now.

Good luck to you FG..........

Thanks Sannah.

From what I know about my own ptsd and therapy, its the old stuff that makes the new stuff so difficult to deal with. I can understand though wanting to gain mastery over stuff that happened when we were very powerless. Trying to change peoples thinking can be dangerous if they are not ready to deal with the past.

I have appreciated reading this exchange between Farmergirl and Sannah. It shows different strokes for different folks, and that what approach works for a person in therapy (and life!) is very individualistic.

When I was going through my divorce, one of the things I found helped me a lot was to let the feelings out about the ending of the relationship. I was grieving. I didn't have to work to identify the thinking behind the feelings, as it was very apparent--I was sad because a 20+ year relationship was ending. Knowing the reason behind my sad feelings did not help me resolve the feelings, though. It turned out that they resolved once I let them out and grieved. I did a lot of this in therapy, and needed a lot of encouragement from my T because I tend to stuff my feelings inside of me and not feel them. It took quite a while. In general, now that I have learned that it is OK to feel things as they happen (instead of stuffing them away), I find I like to have feelings. I like it when I can have them in the moment and experience them, and I don't try to resolve them. I just have them. If I don't stuff them away, they don't need resolving. To me, the word "resolve" almost has this associated meaning of "make them go away." I don't like to make my feelings go away anymore. Farmergirl, do you use the approach you described and your skills mostly on feelings you believe are "problematic" in some way (anxiety provoking? triggering? stuck?), or do you use them on all feelings? It could be that some may think that is an obvious question, but I am still trying to understand about feelings, so it's not to me. Hearing other people's experiences with feelings is helpful to me.

The topic of forgiveness popped up here...I think forgiveness is so very difficult. Sometimes I think it isn't even voluntary. I'm not sure you can force yourself to forgive. I sure wish it was possible though.

Maybe this is just a for-me thing -- your mileage may vary. But for me, I can't forgive just by wanting to. It's a thing where I just wake up and realize I've stopped hating on someone for about a year, and it was effortless! It does feel great, but I've never been able to force it

It's like love. I can't force myself to love someone. It totally has to bubble up spontaneously. I love the therapeutic approach to life -- God knows, it's probably saved my life! But I think there is sometimes too much credence placed in the therapeutic assumption that we ought to be able to control every aspect of our emotions. Sometimes you can't, and I still stay that's okay

Good question. I use my skills when my feelings are problematic. If they aren't problematic, it isn't an issue. So much of the time when we talk about feelings we only think of the problem ones, but so much of what we feel causes no problem at all. Isn't that nice?

Totally agree. When forgiveness finally came, it was just there one day. And I've also learned that I have to forgive certain people again and again sometimes. It hasn't been a one time only thing for me. But each time is a little easier I guess. Forgiveness is really freeing for me, particularly forgiveness of the self.

Yes, I agree! I am glad you said that because I think I was getting an incorrect impression of you and your therapy. When I talk about feelings, they are sometimes the problematic ones but often times not. I am an equal-opportunity feelings discusser.

hee, hee. That needs to be put on a t-shirt.

I have a CBT based therapy too and so I totally get what farmergirl is saying, and yes, it's healthy! There is a difference between feelings that need to be processed and felt, and feelings that are based on irrational thoughts. Like, for example, sunrise says she felt sad because her 20+ year relationship was ending. In that case, my t would say to allow myself to feel the feelings, feel the sadness and don't distract myself from the feelings. But on the other hand, if I was feeling sad because I was thinking that nobody likes me, or thinking something else based on negative thoughts that aren't true or are distortions of reality, then my T would say NOT to allow myself to feel those feeling. She would encourage me to recognize the distorted thoughts and change those thoughts in order to change the feeling. An example of that would be feeling sad that nobody like sme or nobody is there for me. I could recognize that as a distortion right away based on the all or nothing word "nobody". It's just not true that nobody likes, etc. Change the thought, think about the real truth and th sadness goes away. It's pointless to feel sadness based on distortion of thoughts.

Anyway, hope that makes sense and might be why farmergirl and sannah seem to be on two different pages here. I know many people see CBT based therapy as kind of invalidating of feelings and trying to shut them off, when in fact that is not true at all. It is very empowering to realize that we do have more control over how we feel at any given moment. It is also usefull in that we all need to be able to "put away" our feelings at times, even if they are feelings we need to process (grief, sadness, anger etc.) There are times to let it all out and that is healthy, but there are also times when it's not appropriate to let them all out (on the job, parent-teacher conferences etc)

This is really an awesome therapy analogy! Keep up the good work, you can get through this yucky part.

Great explanation. Thanks for that.