[jexa]

I think I am getting on my T's nerves.

Or maybe it is just in my head. I can't tell, and it's not clear cut, and I can't stand it. I sent her an email when I was in distress about how sad I was, and then I felt guilty for sending it because I know emails are her spending extra time. I had already sent another email complaining about a payment issue (she always waits forever to charge me, and I haven't been charged in a month, so I emailed asking when I was going to be charged, and whether there was some way to better predict when charges would happen), and then later that day I'm a sobbing mess and sending an email, "I've been sobbing all day, I'm losing my mind, and I wish I had a friend." Ughhhhh. How could I bother her with the payment question and THEN go to her in distress? I am feeling pretty ashamed of myself right now.

She emailed back and told me she was sorry I had a bad day and to take good care of myself, and then she apologized for the payment issue in another email..

I have this urge to be MORE annoying now. Like I am not sure I am annoying her, so now I want to do something to be SURE I am annoying her. But I DO NOT want to do this to my poor T who has been so good to me. I'm resisting this urge and I am NOT going to send her another email!! That would be just BAD BEHAVIOR and would NOT give me what I really want. But I am having a really hard time with the uncertainty. And I am really beating myself up right now. It would fix it if T would just get mad at me. Then I would know for sure what is going on. I am going crazy resisting this urge. It is getting pretty obsessive. I want so badly to push her away right now. I am so angry with myself.

[WePow]

((((((((((( jexa )))))))))))))

In this situation, I would send another email - but really vent. I mean pour your whole heart and soul into it. But start the email with something like this:

"Dear T, thank you for being here for me. I really am in a bad way right now and just need to pour my heart and soul out to you. I don't expect a reply - and know your time is very precious, so I do not even expect you to read this. But I have got to get this to you or I will explode or implode! This is me venting - just running around naked in email form right now - so here it goes. Thank you so much for just listening."

That is actually one of the things I said to my T when I was having a very very bad time of things and considered going to the ER. I just wrote that and then followed with about 3 printed pages worth of total venting everything on my soul. And it worked to help keep me OK until T could see me again.

Just an idea... Safe hugs to you!!!

Originally Posted by jexa

I am going crazy resisting this urge. It is getting pretty obsessive.

When I feel like that, I usually let myself send an e-mail, or even call. It's so uncomfortable to sit in that place of obsessing. Of course, it's impossible to predict if it will just start a new obsession (is he mad that I e-mailed?) so it doesn't always help.

What I HAVE done, that has helped, is talked about this A LOT (I mean it - ALOT!) in therapy. I ask him anything I want to: "do you roll your eyes and sigh when you see my name in your e-mail box?" "does it make you mad when I leave messages"? etc. And I trust him to tell me the truth.

We've gone over it again and again and again, and I really get what's okay and what's not okay now.

Can you spend some time talking to T to see what is and isn't okay?

I remember I used to tell T that I had an equal urge to grab him and not let go and to push him away and run. Ugh, such a hard place to be.

to you.

[jexa]

I think I'm going to ask T in session, not by emails. But I don't know if I can trust her to tell the truth. I work in a clinic and I know how things really are.

*****TRIGGER - Honest talk about T's behind the scenes - May trigger trust issues with T*******

I really don't mean to make anyone paranoid, but because I do assessments in a clinic, I definitely know that T's talk. I have talked with them. T's say, "This person is really getting on my nerves" and "I don't think this person's going to do well in treatment" and sometimes they laugh about people if their issues are sort of funny. They keep up a veneer in session, but they are human behind the scenes. I, too, am human. I'm not going to lie. With colleagues (NOT with friends, NOT outside the clinic, ONLY with professionals), I have laughed about people with compulsive masturbation, I have complained about how annoying some kid is, I have worried that someone I've done an assessment on will not get better in therapy.

I just don't know if I'm "that girl." You know? I don't know when my T is being honest with me. I don't know if she's keeping her humanity from me. I don't know.

I think she is more honest than the average T. But that doesn't guarantee that she is not complaining about me to her husband (she'd never use my name, but still) or to her supervisor or to her colleagues. It doesn't guarantee that she's not laughing about me behind the scenes, or silently worrying about my prognosis. *sigh* And she wouldn't be honest, if she thought it would harm me. I don't think any T would do something they thought might hurt someone. So what if the truth is being kept from me for my own good? I don't like that.

It would be much simpler to act out until she snaps, but I won't do that to her. I wish there were some way to get the truth for real. I don't know how to trust what she says.

Of course t's talk to each other about their clients. That doesn't surprise me because I'm a teacher and sometimes you just have to vent. But I don't understand why you want to annoy your t. To get her to be mad at you? That's a bit odd. Why be self-destructive?

[jexa]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

Of course t's talk to each other about their clients. That doesn't surprise me because I'm a teacher and sometimes you just have to vent. But I don't understand why you want to annoy your t. To get her to be mad at you? That's a bit odd. Why be self-destructive?

I'm not going to annoy her, but I have the urge to. Maybe it seems a bit odd, but I guess this is where I have BPD tendencies. Or maybe it's hypervigilance in the PTSD way. Or something like that.

Getting her upset on purpose? It's this self-preservation thing that I used to act on and now have mostly in check, though the urges can get obsessive. Again, I will not act on this. I have more control than I used to have. I just have this strong urge to see what she can handle, what can make her snap. It's like I need to find her edge. Maybe I need to know what behavior (on my part) is safe, and what is not safe. What will be too much for her? I want to know so badly. It makes me feel out of control not to know. I want to push her away to see what will happen.

This isn't cognitive, isn't happening verbally. It manifests without clear thought in any way, and is an urge and a compulsion and very fear-based. I am stuck here, though I am not acting on my urges. I just can't stop thinking about it. Without acting on the urge, this drive I have, it has to go somewhere. Right now it is boiling and boiling. I will find a way to release it somehow..

[perpetuallysad]

I think its incredibly cool how honest you are being jexa. I know that I appreciate it, especially since its something I have "known" for myself, though never had directly confirmed. So here's what I think: does it matter if they are being sincere or not if you BELIEVE they are sincere? I mean, wouldn't you get the same thing out of it if they were faking it all, but did a wonderful job of making you feel ok?

I know I read a lot on here about how this T loves this client and really cares about him or her and I know its me being my cynical self, but I have to wonder to myself how true these feelings are. I've often had the urge to say something to the poster about how this feeling of the Ts would be impossible to maintain with all clients and therefore probably not the way their T actually feels, but then I have to consider how much it really matters if the feelings the client thinks the T has and the T's actual feelings are the same thing. Seriously, if what you need the very most (I'm using the generic you, not actually you, jexa) is someone whom you feel unconditionally loves you and your T appears to give you unconditional love, is that wrong? You are very correct when you say that Ts are human and have human responses to things. I think a lot of times people have really high (and unfairly unrealistic) opinions of what their Ts can and cannot do, and what their Ts true feelings are. Does this make any sense at all?

SO, what I am trying to get to is that what if it does sort of get on her nerves, but she is professional enough and good enough at her job that its "ok" with her and she accepts it, while providing you with what you need by saying its alright? Isn't the same result being reached? Isn't this really one of those ultra existential things where we really can't truly know what anyone's thinking or feeling without the other person telling us what they think and feel?

An aside: I get the feeling of wanting to piss someone off and push them away when things are making you feel weird, for lack of a better way to describe it. I do this often to my husband and have done it to innumerable past friends. And often the things someone says when they are pissed off are just the things they are feeling at that moment. So even if you did annoy her until she snaps, its doesn't mean you would get more truth out of her, it just may only give you what you think you need to hear her say.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Jexa your post made me so sad .

I don't see what's funny when someone is compelled to act beyond their conscious control.

Ts talking in general to other Ts about clients is one thing, but ... I don't know, call me naive. I guess I felt that that someone actually IN therapy himself/herself would not laugh.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

I know I read a lot on here about how this T loves this client and really cares about him or her and I know its me being my cynical self, but I have to wonder to myself how true these feelings are.

well, maybe the true-ness of the feelings is indicated by the burnout risk that therapists face, which is apparently tremendous. My vote - the vast majority of them do care, truly.

The longer I am in therapy, the more often I am reminded of Ray Bradbury's short stories in which some stray Martians would be discovered in a corner of a camp or city of the Earth colonizers... his Martians were sensitive to human needs and feelings to the point of being changelings, taking on the appearance of the person projected onto them with startling reality, but oh it was so very costly to their health.

[dfh932]

(((((((((((((((Jexa))))))))))))))))
I think i know how you feel...sometimes when i'm having a tough time or someone in my life is GIVING me a hard time...like my significant other..I might be like a real b**ch to them, to sort of confirm the feelings of badness. Like, when I feel bad, I almost need to be confirmed and punished for it, whether it's real or imagined.
But the thing is, I always forget that i have control..not bad...not deserving to be punished or push someone away and make them angry...im better than that...and it's all really about the fact maybe with you that you didn't do anything wrong...but because of reasons unknown, it's like you can control the situation...and your badness...by making these things play out like they always have and always do.
I do this all.of.the.time. it feels especially crappy when i play out this drawn out drama, get so upset...feel just awful, have a breakdown, etc...then look back and TRY to remember where it all went wrong...and it is just something small, something that could've just stayed small if i had let it...
I dont want to imply that this is your situation,...just what happens to me when i experience what you describe...lots of hugs and strength for you...

I used to work in mental health, with a caseload of clients. I can tell you very honestly that I did have one client who REALLY got on my nerves...to the point I had to ask for her to be moved to someone else's caseload, because I didn't feel like I could do good work with her. I know my T refers people that he feels he can't work with, and I think that is good self-care. The fact that all of our T's are still working with us seems like a good sign

I did have a few clients that I really did love. I liked all of them, very much. I was frustrated when some people would refuse to do the work, but I still liked them. A few were just extra special to me, and even though I haven't worked with them in over 10 years, I think of them from time to time and wonder how they're doing. I think that sometimes we just connect with certain people for whatever reason. So I do believe a T's feelings of love can be real.

When I worked in mental health, we did talk about the clients occasionally in a venting kind of way. We all knew each other's clients, so it was easy to say "this thing Joe is doing is driving me crazy" or whatever. We were just people and the clients were people too, and it was just natural to have those conversations.

Jexa, it seems like you are really aware of how you are feeling, and that is huge. You are able to describe it perfectly. when do you see t? It would be SO good to be able to start processing this with her. It seems like maybe you are on the cusp of big forward movement....which always ALWAYS feels like the worst possible place to be, at least for me.

to everyone

[dfh932]

Ugh and Jexa and sitting....I used to work for psychologists and also am acutely aware of the behind the scenes chatter...and it makes it harder, knowing that side of things...it's better to be naive, i think ...like perpetualysad is saying, ignorance is bliss...
B/c what T's say behind the scenes and to their colleagues doesn't even really get to what they REALLY feel or think about someone...I can gripe about people all day, but the people I gripe about are usually the most interesting, and sometimes the ones i feel most connected to and interested in..I don't know if T's are the same way...but it's that unknown...kinda like you mentioned Jexa the pain of not knowing if T is mad at you so you want to make her mad at you....it's those unknowns we can't control that drive us batty sometimes !

[jexa]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

Jexa your post made me so sad .

I don't see what's funny when someone is compelled to act beyond their conscious control.

Ts talking in general to other Ts about clients is one thing, but ... I don't know, call me naive. I guess I felt that that someone actually IN therapy himself/herself would not laugh.

I'm really sorry that you are disappointed in me, SAWE. I understand why it might be upsetting to hear that I, a person in distress due to my own troubling psyche, would laugh at someone with their own troubles.

I hope this thread does not start any arguments or bad feelings from the group. That was not my intent. My intent was to share the reasoning behind my concerns about my T's honesty.

In my defense, I have never laughed with malice or even specifically at the person. I certainly would not laugh at someone with compulsive masturbation who came in seriously in distress.. it may help you to know that the specific case I was talking about, I was trying to do an assessment on something else, not to ask the person about their masturbation habits and they kept insisting on talking about it, and I could barely contain my laughter at all the unnecessary detail. This person was not so distressed, more annoyed at the time it was taking them each day. So I laughed about it later. Does that make me insensitive?

I commonly laugh at the many manifestations of the human condition. I laugh a lot. Maybe nothing is sacred to me anymore. In my job, I see enormous amounts of pain daily. How could I survive if I did not laugh? How would I keep myself from burnout if I did not laugh? It doesn't mean I don't care. I would expect someone to laugh at some of my symptoms. For example, when my OCD is bad I have in the past had horrible full-body twitches that were intense and completely out of my control. This was very bad around the time I started seeing my T. I imagine my T laughed about it after she saw it happen, and I don't blame her. It is extremely embarrassing, but it is also hilarious when I am not experiencing it! Looking back, I can certainly laugh at my bizarre symptoms.

I react to what people tell me. I laugh with colleagues, I cry in the bathroom at work, I vent frustration. In front of people who are seeking help at our clinic, I have the veneer of a professional. I have a professional self. I have warmth, but maintain a level of detachment. I do my job. I do good work. I care.

[jexa]

Thanks PS - I do try very hard to be honest, especially on this board. As far as my frustration with T, maybe it is because I always want so much to know the truth, the real truth, the whole truth. Is it wrong for me to want that, or is it a part of my personal values and worth holding onto? Isn't there intrinsic value in knowing the truth about things? Is pragmatism really the be-all end-all? Do I only care about what will make me feel better, or is it okay that I want to know every facet? Why do I need to know? I'm not sure. I don't want to accept that it's okay for T to dislike me on one hand, and pretend she likes me to my face. I just, ugh. I don't like that. Doesn't everyone feel that way?

dhf, it really is the unknown. I guess maybe I need to know because I feel the need to ensure my safety. I need to predict what others will do, so I can protect myself in the future. I know there is no way to ensure this. I have such a hard time giving up my control. This fear runs deep, this fear is in the core part of me. Giving up control. Oh boy. Never knowing if I am really safe. Oh Christ.. this is about the most frightening thing I can imagine!

tree, thanks so much. Yes, at the clinic we pretty much all know the people, or if we are talking together about the person we both know them. It does feel pretty natural to vent this way.. but then it makes me wonder what T is saying behind my back, ugh. The behind the scenes chatter, especially the stuff that hits close to home for me, is hard to deal with sometimes. But that's just my stuff.

Thanks for saying I described the feeling well! I really love processing things on this board because of that. It really helps me clear the fog. I don't see T until Friday, but I'm going to try to keep this fresh in my mind. I think you're right.. these feelings are really important to process with T. My last T was very behavioral and I guess her approach helped me control the actual acting on urges, but maybe processing deeper stuff will take away the urges.

Giving up the urges would mean relinquishing control..
Whew. I don't know.

[BohemianPrincess]

Write a letter and give it to her during your next session. Im not saying that you are getting on her nerves, but she probably doesn't have time to constantly read emails from all of her clients and reply. I would just write it out and give it to her during your session.