[jexa]

So in my last session, at the end, I said to T, "Why would a person choose not to cope well?" And she told me it was a good thing to think about and maybe I could come here and ask you guys what you thought.

I can only think of this:

Choosing good coping mechanisms right now would invalidate my pain. If I could choose good coping mechanisms, then it would be like I was saying I wasn't hurting at all.

Choosing bad coping mechanisms reduces uncertainty. I already know I'm not coping. I don't have to worry anymore, "Will I? Won't I?"

Anyone have any other ideas?

[zooropa]

Choosing good coping mechanisms right now would invalidate my pain. If I could choose good coping mechanisms, then it would be like I was saying I wasn't hurting at all.

Choosing bad coping mechanisms reduces uncertainty. I already know I'm not coping. I don't have to worry anymore, "Will I? Won't I?"

YES! I can absolutely relate to both of those. I think, too, that for me it is often a matter of choosing what I know. Maybe it's the same thing you are saying about reducing uncertainty. I think there are 2 parts to that, actually.

Like you said, the uncertainty of will I or won't I, and I know from experience how painful those obsessive thoughts about SI or sui can be.

The other uncertainty is in the result. I KNOW what will happen if I SI. I know how I will feel as I do it, after I do it, hours later. The new coping skills, even after using them a lot and seeing the results, they aren't as sure. In times of stress I think it is really easy to go back to what we know.

I also have chosen negative coping skills when I am angry or frustrated or hurt by my T. I think in that way I'm kind of like a teenager rebelling against their parent by doing what they know they aren't "supposed" to do.

And of course, there is the self hatred and self punishment aspect of SI, restricting food, etc.

this was REALLY thought provoking Jexa, thanks!

[jexa]

Anyone who relates to this topic should listen to this song:

[jexa]

Thanks zoo for your reply! I can totally relate to the things you added, too - the "rebellious" aspect of it, the knowing how SI makes me feel, and especially the self-punishment aspect. But why self-punish?

[sanityseeker]

Interesting question Jexa and great song.

I think your point about certainty\uncertainty is an important one.

Coping mechanisms don't always work so sometimes I just don't feel like putting out the effort. Especially if I let whatever is going on to go on too long. It is easier to just endure what I know will happen if I don't bother trying then to hope I can turn it around. I am just too worn down sometimes to find the energy to try.

I also think the pull to punish myself is just too strong to resist. I like the power I feel when I am hurting myself. It is like a drug. Knowing how badly I will feel after the euphoria wears off is the only thing that holds me back sometimes.

I also think I sometimes want my worst feelings about myself to be validated. I will make trouble with someone just to prove to them and me what a horrible person I am. Just to validate my right to hate myself and for everyone else to hate me too.

It has been a long journey to discover these things about myself. The awareness of what is behind some of my hurtful behaviours has helped reduce these kinds of behaviours but I probably do battle with the urge to behave hurtfully on a regular basis.

Learning to choose to cope and turn my thinking around rather than to implode and or explode is a journey towards true self empowerment. Coping to make things easier on ourselves is a reflection of self love. It takes practise, honesty and constant diligence.

It is just so much easier sometimes to listen to the same old tapes in my head and buy into the same old bull I throw at myself to justify bad behaviours and negative attitudes then to try to reprogram and believe anything differently.

Even being happy can be too risky to trust. I seldom feel 'happy' so when I do it is noticable. Maybe because it is rare it makes me nervous but so often I will do something or say something to myself to cut into the sense of happiness just so I can pre-empt something out of my control doing it first. lol. So warped. lol

Thought provoking question. It has me thinking all over the map.

................

[Rapunzel]

I really appreciate this question and wish I had some answers. I think that T and lots of people hate me for not coping when supposedly I could.

I don't believe that I deserve any better.
I don't believe that I am of any value.
I want someone to show me that I'm worth something, because nobody ever did.
Even if some people tried, something inside me blocks it from getting through.
Sometimes I just don't care about coping.
Deep down, I really don't think that the things I know as better ways to cope will really work for me.
I'm afraid to find out that I'm right, and nothing ever will work.
People keep hurting me and devaluing me and invalidating me, and I just keep getting more sensitive to it and more fragile. My trauma threshold gets lower and lower, and I want them to see how they are destroying me in hopes that maybe they will stop.
Maybe all there is is pain and hurt, and if I started coping, I wouldn't exist.

[Rapunzel]

Attention is a legitimate need. All of us need it. Not all of us have the skills to get it appropriately.

"For attention" really means "to get help."

..............

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by roseleigh7

For attention maybe? I don't mean that in a bad way.

this is such a huge misconception, that people SI to get attention. I have never wanted attention, in fact my greatest wish most of the time is to disappear. A lot of my social anxiety comes from not wanting people to see me, it's also what makes therapy so excruciating sometimes. I do NOT want anyone's attention on me.

I haven't cut for 6mos or so but I was a cutter for years. I've never done it for attention. Ever.

I cut because it feels good in the moment, and later, when the pain sets in, that feels good too because I deserve the pain. Win/win, which is what makes it so difficult to stop.

My body is covered in thousands of scars. I know about SI. Sigh. I said I didn't mean it in a BAD way.

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by roseleigh7

My body is covered in thousands of scars. I know about SI. Sigh. I said I didn't mean it in a BAD way.

(((roseleigh))) I know you didn't mean it in a bad way. I understand what you were saying, really. I just know that doing it for attention is such a huge misconception, I wanted to address it, because a lot of people reading this might not have seen it from the inside the way we have.
hug:

[WePow]

All I know is I keep trying... and trying... and trying.... But sometimes there is no eraser for the ink some have left on us. :-(

[jexa]

roseleigh, I appreciate your reply - I know you didn't mean attention in a bad way. Just, usually people mean it in a bad way, and sometimes those of us who have SIed get sensitive about it. Don't you?

I don't think I do it for attention though. I think it's a way of.. processing something. I don't know. It makes me really calm. Maybe a part of it is attention-seeking, maybe -- in the way Rapunzel says, maybe right now I'm SIing because I'm trying to get help.

Rapunzel, thanks for the reply -- I especially relate to:

Deep down, I really don't think that the things I know as better ways to cope will really work for me. I'm afraid to find out that I'm right, and nothing ever will work.

Maybe all there is is pain and hurt, and if I started coping, I wouldn't exist.

Those resonate with me a lot.

WePow, if it's because someone left ink on you, are SI behaviors a way to show that the ink is there? A way to never forgive those people for hurting us? Is the SI a way to say, "No, I'm NEVER going to be okay, because of YOU"

[WePow]

((((( Jexa )))))) For me, SI is trying to remove from myself physically what I cannot remove emotionally.... what I want my T to help me remove but what T can't see or touch... it is like a way to scratch the itch that can't be reached. That is the only way to describe it.

[pachyderm]

SI to force someone finally to pay attention?

[lily99]

sorry, deleted. felt weird writing it

take care

[ECHOES]

Maybe it is more than self punishment. Maybe it is anger toward someone else that you can't allow your self to be aware of?

I think SI makes a statement of how much pain a person is in. I think it says "I am hurting this much!"

I think the self, any part or several, wants the anger and the pain to be acknowledged, accepted, and comforted. I think that is a need and very different from attention.

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by WePow

((((( Jexa )))))) For me, SI is trying to remove from myself physically what I cannot remove emotionally.... what I want my T to help me remove but what T can't see or touch... it is like a way to scratch the itch that can't be reached. That is the only way to describe it.

a way to scratch the itch that can't be reached...

That is amazingly insightful, wepow, and hits me to the core. YES. I hope you know how wise you are. I think a lot of people share the same or similar feelings around SI but it is so hard to articulate something we don't fully understand.

I have to try to stay out of this thread now but thank you so much for that.

[lily99]

Echoes, that is exactly what I feel. thanks for putting it into words for me

[googley]

I cut when I am Sui. It removes the pressure to do something worse.

Sometimes I find myself using the coping skills I have learned and they don't reduce the urge. When they say that the urge will reduce over time is seems like a lie. They haven't been there with me for hours trying to wait for it to go away.

Expressing anger at other people has been dangerous and it is easier to express that anger towards myself. I can control the amount of damage. Instead of fearing what their reaction would be I can know how much it will hurt.

I don't do it for attention from anyone in the sense that I do it in places I can hide it so others wont see.

But at the same time I do need my T to care. I need someone to care about my safety. Especially if I'm at a place where I don't feel like I can.

[rainbow8]

Jexa, are you doing it because of how angry you are with your T for leaving you? I've never SI'd but I have other ways of not coping well. I eat out of frustration, anger, and pain. Or when I obsess about therapy or something else. It doesn't seem like I am CHOOSING the unhealthy behavior. It seems like I don't have a choice. I know that's a cop-out, but that's what not coping well feels like to me. It's a compulsion, not a choice.

[Lauru]

I think for me, using old coping mechanisms is
1. A way to show how very much pain I am in to my T
2. Try to get my T's attention
3. Feel hopeless and helpless
4. Want immediate results, even if long term they are bad for me.

Jexa sending you

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by jexa

So in my last session, at the end, I said to T, "Why would a person choose not to cope well?" And she told me it was a good thing to think about and maybe I could come here and ask you guys what you thought.

When I had too much awful going on in my life, I became depressed. That wasn't a great coping mechanism, but I did it. I didn't feel I chose to do it, but I guess I was the one responsible for becoming depressed. Other people might react differently. It seems kind of judgmental (not by you) to think of it this way, as if I were deliberately trying to be depressed. My body/psyche just reacted that way. It had reached overload and so withdrew. I think they have shown in rats that the animal reacts in a similar way when put into a hopeless situation. So in a way, it is natural and perhaps adaptive. It helps you save energy for a day when the situation has changed into one that is more hopeful. I think I coped inappropriately (became depressed) when I reached a certain limit of what I could tolerate. My life exceeded my ability to cope healthily.

I thought also of my mother when I read your question about choosing not to cope well. She was very volatile and would often become angered by her children and lash out and yell and hit us. She chose to cope with her anger inappropriately. I think she did it because she had no impulse control and also no respect for her children as persons. (I think she saw us as an extension of herself and therefore she had the right to do what she wanted to us). I also never got the sense that she had a desire to choose differently.

So I think there are a lot of reasons a person chooses not to cope well. For me, the depression became so bad that I sought professional help (therapist). The similarity I see with SI is that both the depression and the SI are a reaction to pain or stress in one's life; they help one deal with the pain--survive it. If one can work on solving the cause (the pain or stress), then the behavior (depression, SI) will often extinguish. If one works on fixing the coping mechanism (e.g. having a person who SIs instead snap a rubber band on their wrist) instead of the root cause, then it will frequently be tempting to return to coping in an unhealthy way if the cause of the pain has not been resolved. So I would ask those who believe they cope inappropriately--what is causing your pain? Is there anything you can do to fix that?

[Melbadaze]

jexa, your posts shows you are trying to understand yourself, I think thats admirable.