[peaches100]

Is it just me, or do others feel that the hurt and disappointments in the therapy relationship outweigh the good feelings of connection? In my therapy, as good as i feel sometimes with her, it seems that 3/4 of time is spent trying to resolve misunderstandings and hurt feelings. Before therapy, my way of handling problems in relationships was just to walk away and not confront it. In therapy, i've tried to stay open and keep talking about the ruptures. But I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it. My t is a good t. But the therapy relationship hurts more than it feels good. I thought it was supposed to be about having an "emotionally corrective experience," where the client learned that t would not hurt them the way other people in their lives did. But experiences with my t just keep re-enacting my feelings of rejection and abandonment.

[peaches100]

It's like my t wants to treat me well -- but despite her own good intentions, on a regular basis, she says or does something that makes me feel the same worthless, unimportant way my parents do.

Originally Posted by peaches100

I thought it was supposed to be about having an "emotionally corrective experience,"

I wonder if part of the "corrective experience" is learning to negotiate conflicts, and learning that a relationship can continue and grow in spite of the difficulties that come up whenever we try to relate intimately to another person?

I do sometimes wonder if it's worth it when I'm in the middle of a rupture with my T. My thought process is basically "If it wasn't in therapy, I wouldn't be having this conflict right now, and I would feel better"

I'm not sure what the answer is, honestly.

[sittingatwatersedge]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((( dear peaches ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

your post made me wince, and smile with recognition at the same time, but my heart sighs with you.

Yesterday I told T that when we got to the point where my "story" was finally pretty much told, I somehow decided that we were now out of the painful times, and it was chilling that she echoed my words with soft amazement.
Apparently I was wrong.

Well, here's how I figure it: in therapy we look at the heavily ingrained behavior, and try to change it, and that's painful. Stretching those cramped up "muscles" is painful; and any teenager can tell you that growing itself is painful.

So yes it hurts more than I could have ever thought, in ways I never suspected, but yes I definitely think it's worth it and I am daily more grateful for the chance, unlike any other I've ever had.

The unexamined life was what I had before... and good ole Socrates was right, it really isn't worth living.

[Oceanwave]

Originally Posted by peaches100

But the therapy relationship hurts more than it feels good.

Yeah, I definitely had this experience too. Then we worked on it in therapy and explored what I am feeling and where those feelings come from. Once I understood their source it was really helpful and worth the pain, I think. And this makes real life less painful, eventually.

[purple_fins]

I'm sorry it's so difficult.

I'm not sold on the idea yet that one must re-feel the pain to heal.........
I just don't know about that ........

fins

[Fartraveler]

Originally Posted by purple_fins

I'm not sold on the idea yet that one must re-feel the pain to heal.........
I just don't know about that ........

fins

I am beginning to think that the reason for re-feeling the pain is that before you re-feel it, you just spend all your time blocking it and trying to avoid it, so that you can't really see things clearly, and so you tend to remain stuck in lousy patterns. It's like, once you allow yourself to feel the pain, you do realize that it won't destroy you, and then you can look at it, and yourself, and your patterns, more clearly. And that makes you more able to consciously choose more constructive and appropriate behaviors.

(At least that's my thinking at the moment.)

-Far

[seventyeight]

((peaches))

i don't have the "dissappoints" in therapy that you're talking about (at least not very often), but i've thought about this concept in terms of the disconnect that i feel every time i have to leave a session. the 'leaving' is SO utterly painful (and continues to be for about 24 hours), that i've often wondered if it's worth it to keep going.

i would agree though with what the others have said about it being worth it in the end. and just as with the exercise example that i posted about already - it's kind of like working out with a trainer. it's grueling and painful and you begin to represent your trainer (or in this case, your therapist) for pushing you every week, but ultimately the results pay off. it's just hard to see it when you're going through it.

have you discussed this with her - like how you're feeling right now with it?

[RiverX]

But I think its what kind of pain. There is a difference between pointless reenactments, and a healthy pain of facing emotional truth in an honest way in order to work through.

Yes, Ive had that endless recycling of hurt feelings, and no, I dont believe it should be like that. I believe that one should get the sense that therapy is resolving something, the process of which may be joy, or it may be pain, but whichever it is, one should be able to tell that its a clean, truthful, sober and 'right' feeling that you sense can take you towards a better life.

[sittingatwatersedge]

RiverX I like your signature line!!!

>> "Strong passions are the precious raw materials of sanctity" - Fulton Sheen

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Is it just me, or do others feel that the hurt and disappointments in the therapy relationship outweigh the good feelings of connection?

For me, the good outweighs the bad. I think some of us have an easier time of it than others, for whatever reasons.

Originally Posted by peaches100

In my therapy, as good as i feel sometimes with her, it seems that 3/4 of time is spent trying to resolve misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

I think the misunderstandings can sometimes be helped by really working on communication skills. Do you and your T work on communication? What I mean is things like being direct (saying what you mean to the other person, face to face), not jumping to conclusions, verifying assumptions with the other person, etc. Speaking for myself, a lot of the time my assumptions about what a person is thinking or why they did or said something are way, way worse than the truth. I have to train myself to not let myself make those assumptions and ask the person directly about their intent. This is very hard to do if you are not used to it. I'm still not good at it, but I am getting better... Peaches, do you think that 3/4 figure has changed any since you first began therapy?

Originally Posted by peaches100

I thought it was supposed to be about having an "emotionally corrective experience," where the client learned that t would not hurt them the way other people in their lives did. But experiences with my t just keep re-enacting my feelings of rejection and abandonment.

But you also have many experiences with your T where the rejection and abandonment you felt was happening turned out not to be true and things went really well, and your T said things to you that made you feel good. I think it is that sort of thing that is supposed to be emotionally corrective. What I see sometimes when people post about things in therapy that have potential to be emotionally corrective is that they leave those experiences behind too quickly and don't allow the "correction" to "take." They are immediately worrying and thinking about some other potential problem with their therapist instead of slowing down to bask in the good feelings of their latest success in therapy. (I'm making this as a broad observation, not particularly aimed at what goes on in your therapy, peaches.) So I think those emotionally corrective experiences may be lurking there and we have to savor them and let them take hold.

I'm sorry things are so difficult now with your T relationship, peaches. Maybe you can set aside a session just for celebrating your successes and progress together. It could be a time when you reminisce: "remember when..."

[WePow]

The relationship I have with my T can be painful, that is true. But every single relationship I have ever had has been painful. Usually I run like heck and close myself down. But I am paying to be in this relationship. Sooooo..... It forces me to use that relationship as an education. I use my T to obtain my healing. And he likes it that way!

Seriously, it really is hard work to do the therapy dance. But yes, it is worth all the hard work I am putting into it. And I am very thankful for everything my T does to help me heal - which is honestly far above the "call of duty" many times.

[purple_fins]

I can appreciate the notion of going through the pain again to "settle" ones struggles with some things.-- and I also agree with RiverX--

But I think its what kind of pain. There is a difference between pointless reenactments, and a healthy pain of facing emotional truth in an honest way in order to work through.
Yes, Ive had that endless recycling of hurt feelings, and no, I dont believe it should be like that.

so I think it depends on the kind of pain and the situations ....

Peaches-- I had a T. that was similar to yours-- except he was a male. He didn't answer or would take long to answer my emails sometimes, he was cold sometimes and yet so loving other times- it felt VERY scary to me (the mother was not predictable-- being one way one time and then different another time was/is too much for me to cope with-- I think I deeply need consistancy. I had no one my whole childhood/early adulthood to lean on- my trust is very fragile) Such a therapist as him only gave me proof that people really are callous and confusing and will care only when/if it suits their fancy...... after almost 3 years off and on with that therapy, I quit. I was beginning to think NO ONE was very kind-- heck if a therapist is hurting me and confusing me then how can I EVER expect anyone else to be any different... how can I ever feel "safe" with others.

I'm now with a new therapist-- and she is... is... I can't even find the words... and I'm kind of scared also-- coz I don't want to jinx it-- but she is so unconditionally caring and kind and VERY consistent! She loves when I give her little gifts or when I write a poem. We trade books to read... it's like a NICE sister I always wanted
I can scarcely believe it most times...like I'm in a dream. I've never ever had anyone so compassionate and consistent in my life, understanding, such a good listener. I am finally feeling a bit safe..... it's scary and yet kinda nice too.

I'm so so sorry you're having such struggles, I can hear your pain and almost futility. I don't know what the answer is for you-- to keep going or what-- I just wanted to share my experience in case it would help in some way.

Sometimes I just don't see how going through some sorts of pain is healing... I still don't know about that..... or maybe it's me and I'm just too "fragile" for some kinds of therapists....

fins

[SpottedOwl]

(((peaches)))

I'm sorry you are hurting so much.

I once read an interview with a buddhist monk where he was asked about his relationship with his wife. Although I have never found the article again, his response stuck with me. He said there is only one relationship, the relationship with ourselves. If we get angry at someone, it is an expression of anger with ourselves. If we find joy with someone, it is an expression of our internal joy.

Originally Posted by WePow

The relationship I have with my T can be painful, that is true. But every single relationship I have ever had has been painful.

WePow's comment reminded me of this idea. I do believe that our relationship with T impacts the relationship we have with others in the real world. For myself, I noticed a direct correlation between opening up more in session and then being able to open up more to friends. The opening up had a lot to do with releasing shame I had about myself. So in that way, my relationship with myself DID impact my relationship with everyone else in my life.

The idea that we only have one relationship is challenging, but one that I keep coming back to. The more I think about it, the more wisdom I feel it has.

Using that idea to answer you question, I would say it is worth it to heal the source of the pain. Because with or without T, the pain will be there. T is not the one causing the pain, it comes from within. A good T will give us the opportunity to heal our relationship with ourselves, and by extension with everyone else in our lives.

Peaches, I'm sorry you are finding the t relationship more painful than helpful right now.

I can't say I can really relate as my t and I just don't have those kind of ruptures, but my guess is that through learning to negotiate your way through those ruptures you are learning to stand up for yourself and voice your needs. The other thing you are hopefully learning is to negotiate your own thinking when it might not be entirely proportional or rational. Be patient with yourself. You have a good t and you'll work your way through this stage.

[Melbadaze]

Originally Posted by RiverX

But I think its what kind of pain. There is a difference between pointless reenactments, and a healthy pain of facing emotional truth in an honest way in order to work through.

Yes, Ive had that endless recycling of hurt feelings, and no, I dont believe it should be like that. I believe that one should get the sense that therapy is resolving something, the process of which may be joy, or it may be pain, but whichever it is, one should be able to tell that its a clean, truthful, sober and 'right' feeling that you sense can take you towards a better life.

couldn't put it better myself.

[Kiya]

today? i would say no. but i am processing something pretty heavy (t's vs. patients) and hope there will be learning from it. it not... then i shudder to think of the outcome.
hope things are ok for you and that you are having a breakthrough on this!

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

RiverX I like your signature line!!!

>> "Strong passions are the precious raw materials of sanctity" - Fulton Sheen

... thanks for this, no-one's ever commented on that before

[elliemay]

I think what can be learned from this is that your therapist is not your parents. Although the feeling stirred up from your interactions with your parents may be similar, the situation is totally different and doesn't really apply to your therapist intent or motivation.

Make no mistake, these feelings should be explored as the way you experience your therapists actions are valid, but perhaps based on old reactions that can be re-thought, challenged or controlled.

Yeah, it hurts as we confront old patterns of thought, which for some reason we have become really comfotable with.

But sometimes, at least for me, facing that pain head on and trying to change it, is worth it.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by elliemay

I think what can be learned from this is that your therapist is not your parents. Although the feeling stirred up from your interactions with your parents may be similar, the situation is totally different and doesn't really apply to your therapist intent or motivation.

It may not apply to your therapist's intent or motivation. Deciding whether it does or not is hard. I suppose even harder is to decide what to do if you feel that the therapist really is regularly off the track.

You can ignore anything I say, if you wish.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

It may not apply to your therapist's intent or motivation. Deciding whether it does or not is hard. I suppose even harder is to decide what to do if you feel that the therapist really is regularly off the track.

You can ignore anything I say, if you wish.

Actually, that's a really good point Pachy. I learned to trust my therapist's motivations and competence, but it really did take years and it's still not as stable as I would like.

I had one of the "A HA!" moments. It wasn't in my therapist's office, or even near him, but in a parking garage. I saw a really triggering situation with a family that shook me horribly.

Then, all of a sudden, I realized - "I'm no longer IN that situation". That's not me anymore.

It provided an slight shift in my perspective into my life now and how I think about it, and how I might be able to change it.

The pain of then, may not necessarily apply to what's happening now.

I guess the problem is with trusting our perceptions of what's happening, given the backdrop of then. Is that little voice right, or just a recording of something that is wrong.

As usual, you are dead on accurate. It's really hard to know for sure.

[ECHOES]

Since I am finding (often not until we've got through it) that my therapist's intentions are not the cruelty I imagine and that I feel in my reactions (that include disappointment, feeling pushed away, feeling uncared for), then the hurt and disappointment are about me.
About my perceptions which are fueled by my projections, my fears, my habit of avoiding and my imagining rather than being direct and finding out (is it my perception and or is it reality or some of each, etc.).

So, while I am currently in the middle of one of these times, I can appreciate that this is where I learn about me, and about how I am with others . It is an opportunity to practice doing something different. To not run, to not avoid, to be direct and check things out before coming to my own conclusion.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Since I am finding (often not until we've got through it) that my therapist's intentions are not the cruelty I imagine and that I feel in my reactions (that include disappointment, feeling pushed away, feeling uncared for), then the hurt and disappointment are about me.
About my perceptions which are fueled by my projections, my fears, my habit of avoiding and my imagining rather than being direct and finding out (is it my perception and or is it reality or some of each, etc.).

So, while I am currently in the middle of one of these times, I can appreciate that this is where I learn about me, and about how I am with others . It is an opportunity to practice doing something different. To not run, to not avoid, to be direct and check things out before coming to my own conclusion.

WOW Echoes. I have said before we may be twins. We are!!

What pain there is in this, but you have a lot of courage I am so happy to see it. I think I will keep this post, it speaks a lot to me and it still will, when i do not feel very courageous. thanks

[peaches100]

I SO APPRECIATE everybody's responses and am going to print off this thread and re-read it before responding back. There is SO MUCH you have given me to think about. What an insightful, helpful community this is!!!

[Kiya]

((((((((Peaches))))))))) hope things turn out well!