What does a T who doesn't care look like?

Of course you can ask, but the answer is complicated. I will try to describe it as well as possible. I was 12 years old, and suicidal. I was taken into inpatient care by a psychiatrist with a God complex who believed that all children's difficulties were the result of abusive families. Under the 24 hour care of this facility, I was subtly alienated from my family and came to believe that several members of my family had sexually abused me (when this was not the case). I was detained in that facility for a year as a psychiatric inpatient while the psychiatrist fought (and eventually succeeded) to have me taken into state care. I went into foster care aged 13. The day I left the facility, I swore I would never see a mental health professional again. And I didn't, until aged 24, I realised that I would surely die by suicide unless I took the chance.

That's the truth, but I'm not sure how relevant it is for your points (all of which are undoubtedly true). Oh, to the other part- both my family of origin and my foster carers were 'monied'.

I also want to say that I think I can imagine the frustration of seeing people who 'have everything' fixated on their Ts when they have real life relationships which you would give anything for. But that's part of my truth too- that although I had a family who never abused me, I fixated on older females who- I felt- could give me something I didn't get from my family. I don't even know yet what it was I didn't get. And a lot of my suffering has come from the guilt that accompanies this wishing that all these people could be my mother, when I already have a mother whom I love and who loves me. So now I try to accept the wishing, and ditch the guilt, and work through it so I can appreciate and make the best of the real relationships I do have. I truly am not throwing them away, I'm doing everything I can to save my life, and to be able to get them back.

I'm so sorry, Poet. I hope you get all the good things you deserve.

Poet, I felt compelled to respond to your post(s). I do not have all of the experiences you have mentioned in this post and the previous one, and I do not yet know how to quote from multiple posts. So please, bear with me.

There is much truth to what you said. A million good T's in the world can't take the place of family. Family is a gift that many people take for granted, as is a person's health, money, friends, etc....

What you "see" on PC is only a small part of who people are IRL, much like a T in a therapy experience. I believe most people here aren't "throwing" away their family by needing a T, or hoping he "cares" (whatever that means for each individual).

Clearly, this is something very personal to you and I just wanted to offer my support.

Poet, You seem to think your way is the way, that no one elses opinons matter. I dont see anyone thowing away families, I was adopted by a adoptive mother that was cruel, my experience of family growing up was awful..I fought like mad to get a family of my own finding that life played another trick on me and made me infertile and I had to go through yrs of fertility treatment to get my family..I would fight fire and water for my kids and thats why I treasure my therapist because the "love" she has showed me has helped me be the best mother I can to my children, because if you think your past won't impinge on yoru children then you've a lot to learn and your 19 believe me when you have children if you do... your want the best for them..those that refuse to get help and let their "illness" take precedence over their families they are the ones I take issue with, my adoptive mother needed therapy badly but she didn't believe there was anything wrong with her, she projected all her shadows onto me from the day she got me...I adore my family but the abandoned child adores her therapist to...you seem to be stuck in what you feel and want and tell everyone your being attacked for a different view,well my post is a different view..when you've had more life experience hopefully you will see things 2 dimensional and not just through your limited life experiences..I'm sure children in the care system to do feel powerless over the therapists they have given to them but as adults we can choose...I'm nearly 50 and still working toward keeping my family prescious to me..that includes me having someone thats there for me and wants and needs nothing from me so that I can be there for those that do need and want something from me...dont talk to be about families you ain't walk a mile in my shoes...

Thank you for sharing with us honestly.

In a psychotherapy forum people tend to talk about psychotherapy and their therapists. That doesn't mean they don't love their families (that's if they have one.) If people were talking about their families the post would get moved, probably to the relationship forum or social chat forum. So yeah, therapy gets discussed in the therapy forum, that's the way it is.

After reading your recent posts on this thread, Poet, I think I now know where you're coming from. I could be wrong, but. All of my own therapy has come from therapists in private practice. I've never been exposed to a state system as you appear to have. I can well imagine that state systems would attract some T's who couldn't make it on their own in private practice. And that there would be a larger chance, in a state system, that you'd get time-serving T's.

Then with regard to your point concerning family being better than T's. I could be wrong but my strong impression is that people don't go to therapy seeking a relationship with T that would supplant family. Perhaps you've read a problematic description of transference that gave you that idea. Many, if not most, therapy patients had terrible families that did not give them love and provoked the pathology from which the patients suffer. One goes to therapy (hopefully) to unlearn the "wrong" lessons learned in childhood. If competent (and if a correct match with the patient's personality), a T can help a patient overcome the psychological problems caused by a toxic IRL family. And to do that a T doesn't even HAVE to "care" for a patient. Doing that is just what T's are trained to do, if they want, in a dispassionate manner.

So, no, I don't believe at all that patients, by going into therapy, are rejecting their IRL families. If they have family relationships that are good, among, say, brothers and sisters, and only have problems with their parents or one of them, I think most patients would continue positive relations. I don't see any "negation of family" from the patient-therapist relation.

Take care.

I had always had private practice pdoc's & psychologists before the psychologist I have now. They would all just sit & listen to what I had to say without any feedback or questions to draw out more of my thoughts. When my depression was really bad years ago, I would just sit there in silence.

When I left my husband & moved across the country to where I didn't know anyone, I first started with a T in private practice, but couldn't afford him & couldn't handle the drive into the city. Another friend had a T that sounded really great, so I went to her for one meeting only my problems were too complicated for her to handle....the only referrals I got were so expensive there was just no way, I did try one of the referrals & the guy was so off base, I knew there was just no way he was going to relate to me. It took me awhile to get up the courage to go to the community mental health group because of all the bad things I had seen come out of them in California, but I started to hear good things about the psychologists there. I called up & they set me up with the one in the next town away from where I live as I just didn't want to be going to the one in my town & know anyone that was there or have them know me.

This psychologist is the best one I have ever had experience with. She not only listens, but she can ask the right questions that gets me to think deeper than I had previously been able to go with any of the others. Not only that, but I was struggling so much in my home with things that she also set up for the home care group to have a T come out to my farm & help me through the daily stresses I was experiencing. On top of that, they had grant money to help people out of really bad situations & my heat pump situation was one of those bad ones.....the guy I hired to put in my brand new system was a crook & I ended up without a system that was working....so no heat or air. Their grant money paid for me to get my system upgraded into a working heater & AC. I still can't afford to heat my house with the cost of electricity, but at least it works & I can keep the house warm enough that my pipes don't freeze in the winter.

My California Psychologist would hug at the end of the session. I know he cared & I saw him the times I was in the psych hospital.....he would always be there......he even took one of my puppies from the last litter we had. He worked out of the same office as my pdoc, so they kept up on how I was doing. I had been seeing him for almost 10 years & I know that he cared, but his psychology technique just didn't work with me. Can really see the difference now that I have something different to compare it to.

It's important to find someone we can relate to & can relate to us no matter where we find them.....never rule it out until you give them a chance. Think there should be a first time consultation visit just to see if there is a feeling of compatibility.

What makes you think you would do this? I have been in therapy currently for almost 4 years and have therapists before, and I don't think I've ever said this, other than here where we talk about therapy. I adore my therapist, but my therapy is about me and my experiences.

Well, there is a lot of talk about attachment and special relationship... All the talks and people being upset out of their minds just hearing that to therapist it is just a job... As in this thread and about 100 others. Why would I want to think if a person I pay "cares" for me?

Venushalley, I may pay for the opportunity of experiencing the love that my T gives me but it matters nothing to me when I know in the end I will be a whole and happy person. And paying for that opportunity in no way diminishes my belief that despite it being her job my T very much cares about me and her practice in general just as anyone would care about what matters to them.

venus, yes it does sound crazy doesn't it....but perhaps the issue is more about your lacking empaphy and inabilty to understand...sorry bout that.....trauma does that...I hope one day you find someone that cares and you can allow yourself to have it.

venus, what you read here is about people writing when they are struggling and looking for support, understanding, and anything that might be helpful.... as opposed to social contact in real life, which is what you meant.

Yes, this is a place to talk about therapy and what the therapist says.

I would want you to express yourself. I was trying to understand.

Thank you for sharing your feelings about this. The great thing about relationships is that they can help us to connect with ourselves. I very much agree about love in a family! This is a very precious thing. A lot of people come in and out of our lives, but family is our blood.

When I first went to therapy there were some things missing in my relationships and that was part of why I was hurting. Therapy was a place to practice relating and come to understand what I needed. I imagine there was a time when I was focused on my therapy relationship, but some wonderful things happened for me that were about me. Relating with and caring for others brings out our gifts. I like to think of them as points of light within us. My former T helped me to discover my own light and this is something that I recognize as part of myself now. Since having left therapy, I am now able to connect to those points of light and offer those gifts to those who I love. I love more freely now and my family relationships are deeper and stronger.

You were right when you said it's personal for many of us. It is to me some too. My wanting to protect my therapy relationship is symbolic of something I learned while growing up. My eldest brother is severely autistic and I would often watch my mother's gentle, loving interactions with him. We were a closely bound family and loved one another very much. There was some disdain from society toward my brother and my parents...disdain for their choice to keep my brother at home with us. There was teasing and cruel things were said by many. I learned back then that, to me, all love is sacred and should be cherished as thus. So my being protective and wanting to keep love safe (even in regards to a therapeutic relationship) has deeper meaning in my wanting to protect my family.

That is some of my story and my experience. If you are comfortable with sharing more of yours, I'd love to listen. If not, that is okay too. Take care.

Sorry, maybe it's YOU who is projecting. I have empathy and understanding in other aspects of life... I am sure of that.

Yes, I experienced trauma... I think it can be defined in that way. But I have people in my life who like me and I don't have to pay them for that either. They care for me as a person, not as client.

I have feelings, "demons", whatever... I deal with.

People here post that their t is on vacation and they miss them. I just don't need this in my life.

I am so glad that people are "being real" here in this thread. And I am also glad that folks are being civil about everything! I have been in therapy for years, with many different therapists, so I have seen all kinds and all kinds of techniques. I began therapy when I was around 27, when I realized that I was having difficulty in relating in a satisfactory way with others. I grew up in a home with love, but alas, my mother and dad both had mental (personality) disorders, so I received a lot of emotional abuse. I spent a year in therapy, but just couldn't get through the wall I had built up. However, I was helped enough that I could marry and start a family. Several years later, my new family and I moved back into the area where my former T was, and I spent three years in weekly therapy with her. During that time, I became one of those patients who worshipped the ground my T walked on, talked about her all the time, and somewhat wrapped my life around her. I even missed her greatly when she was away, and I would have been one of the people here who would be posting about that kind of thing and about being excited about her doing things like hugging me. After all, she was "re-parenting" me. She was the loving, caring, uncritical mother I never had. And in the process she was working on healing me emotionally. But I never abandoned my IRL family!

We moved away and I have had a number of T's off and on since then. I continue to work on various issues. Ten years ago I was diagnosed as bipolar II, so I deal with that on a day to day basis, for example. I am very pleased with the T I have now. However, I don't think about her all the time, get upset when she's away, etc. Yet, I do contend that real therapy comes down to a relationship between two people--not just some formula. That's why it's important to find one that a person feels comfortable with. No T will be perfect, but most of the ones I have had have come across as "caring," given my definition, anyway.

When people post on this thread, obviously they are writing about aspects of therapy that they are so happy about or so upset or concerned about that they want to share them with others. I don't recall that I have posted here much at all since I have been at PC.

I do recommend therapy often to people. So does "Dear Abby." Please keep in mind that what you read here is probably a somewhat skewed perspective on therapy--I don't mean that in a negative way, however! People seek out therapy for many reasons, and many kinds of therapy exist.

I hope I have helped some. After all, I can assure all of you that I DO care!

(((((((Payne))))))))

this all just makes me wonder what the T's think about this issue.i would love to know.do they think having this kind of close relationship is nessisary to the theraputic relationship,trust and such.to have the ability to tell anything etc...just wonder what T think.what if the client has no real connection with T doesnt or isnt able to think about them outside of session at all isnt able to use the words that are said to help etc...just wondering

What does a T who doesn't care look like?

Depressed?

It's all about what you want in your life. Learning to form connections to other human beings, be they paid therapist, grocery clerk, coworker, or friend (online or in person) is one thing I paid my therapist to help teach me. Missing someone one cares about is part of that connection.

This is a T that didn't care:

I walked in for the first appointment and all I could do was cry, I felt so sad, I couldn't talk at all.

And at the end, he wrote out a prescription for Zoloft, handed it to me, and said, "Take these, and come back in a month when you're feeling better."

YUCK!!!

No, I never went back.

Far, was that a therapist or a psychiatrist?

He was both. He was a psychiatrist. But he did therapy also; I got his name from a friend who had done therapy with him. (And she was not taking any SSRI's as far as I know.)

-Far

What does a T who doesn't care look like? It's more what they sound like and say. I have had the misfortune of having therapists who had their own cure all therapies that they developed and/or who had published books and thought they were brilliant. They were more concerned about proving their theories and selling their books than successfully treating their patients. Don't be a guinea pig for a T's self-centered theories. Their focus should be on successfully treating their patients.

Another sign? I had a therapist who used to pop anti-d's during his sessions. A depressed therapist is a big no-no regardless of how well intentioned they are.

I am now also wary of therapists who tell their personal stories during a session. It's not their session; it's the patient's session.

My T and I have talked about this. I need a lot of contact with T. We've had a lot of ruptures and worked through them, and that's ended up being a really important part of my therapy. T is there for me (within boundaries) both during and after his normal hours. When i am having a really bad day, he will call and talk to me on the way home. He leaves me phone messages after every session, and sometimes writes me little notes to hang on to. I feel like his heart is very open to me, like mine is (now) to his. It is a very close, caring relationship.

I asked him if he had the same kind of relationship with all of his clients, and he said he doesn't. He said that certain clients need certain things...his couples don't need the level of contact and care that I need, for example. He said depending on the issue, building a close, loving, trusting relationship might be the most important part of someone's therapy, but not in everyone's therapy (or even most people's therapy) I am one of the clients who needs the closeness.

SO. I think my T thinks that it is necessary with some clients and not so much with others. I know T still cares about his other clients...I think the whole thing is probably just quite a bit less intense/time-consuming than it is with me (or other clients like me).

Not sure if that answers your question, but it was interesting to talk to him about it.

When I started therapy I had no clue what it would be like. What I did know is that I had allot in my head that I needed to talk about and I was scared out of my mind even just to make the phone call for the appointment.....

Present day: I have the same T for 3yrs and she is great. There have been moments where she hasn't been perfect but no one is and for the majority of the time I find her helpful and valuable. I like my T allot and wasn't expecting to feel a neediness that I have for her ( even though T takes up some space in my head that space never overrides the space that holds the love for my children or my husband ). If I didn't have the feelings/comfort I currently have for T I couldn't open up to my T and if I can't open up then there's no progress. To me that is what I good T 'looks like'. A bad T wouldn't be able to make me feel comfortable enough to open up and be vulnerable.

Yes, we do need to keep remembering that T's are human. They have problems, too. In fact, they are encouraged to seek out therapy themselves to make sure that those problems don't interfere with their effectiveness. Some will be depressed sometimes, for example--and overwhelmed. We all have our stories. If we have been in the mental-health field long enough, we can think of things we think T's could have done differently and better. I do think that most all of them get into the field initially because they do have a heart for hurting people. But it's easy to get overwhelmed and even cynical, especially in certain sectors. And just plain burnt out.

I know I couldn't be a T. I am a psychologist, but as I tell people, "not THAT kind." There's a lot of art to being a T. Decisions have to be made on the spur of the moment, depending on the patient. Should I say something or keep quiet? What should I say? What should I ignore? What is the patient's real problem? What does this patient need from me? Every patient is somewhat different, even given the same diagnosis.

I fairly recently told a T I was meeting with for the first time that I was a psychologist. I am pretty sure I explained what kind. But she got into her head that I was a T. I frankly find that very flattering!