[zooropa]

I feel so crazy, so broken, in the aftermath of this rupture with T. I feel like I'm too "borderline" for T, and that scares the $hit out of me, because she is the best DBT specialist in the area. There is no one else for me to see that isn't in her practice. My case manager told me yesterday that she would do therapy with me if I leave my T, but...she is a nice person, but she's not even a T. She certainly has experience with bpd, but she doesn't have the training.

It's just...if I'm too bpd for DBT to work, how will anything, ever, help??

[dizgirl2011]

Hey hun,

you can't be too borderline for DBT DBT was created firstly for Borderline clients, although I think it's now used for other conditions also.

Plus you are..you! You're not just a borderline! You are a unique person with her own issues, her own positive and negative points, her own talents etc Your more than just a label or a diagnosis

Keep the words in your head that your therapist said to you - she isn't going to give up on you and she isn't going to quit! If you were too much for her to handle she wouldnt say that..would she?

(((((hugs))))))

[zooropa]

I think she sort of HAS to say that. She won't fire me, but she can certainly cause me to want to quit. In which case she has covered her liability, as best she can, and can say that I was the one who quit, not her.

My trust is just shattered. I don't think I can get it back. I don't think I want to.

zoo-

Is there another DBT T that you can call for advice? I know that even though my psych is in charge of the other T's they are very willing to help me when I am having problems with my T. The t you call may have insight into what is causing t to act this way and give you tips to get the response you so desperately need. However, if you continue to feel the relationship is no longer viable or healthy, it may be time to start looking for a new t. Sorry to be so blunt. I know this must be really hard for you. I can't imagine having this happen with my t. I'm in agony over the chance of losing my t when I go off to college in a couple of months, what you are going through must be much worse.

[Lauru]

Oh, ((((((((((zoo))))))))

She might be the best DBT T in the area, but she's not the best out there. You can't be too borderline for a DBT T. If she feels that way, that is on her not you. Perhaps your T is burned out? Not from you, but just from the job in general. We are all here for you and sending you safe hugs.

[zooropa]

T didn't say "you are too borderline" she just said I have too many needs, need too much reassurance, draw close to her and then push her away too much, ask her to repeat things I "should" know by now...all kinds of things that are to my mind sort of classic bpd behavior. If my T can't take it, I am well and truly screwed. I already travel an hour each way to get to Ts practice, which is the only dbt practice within any sort of reasonable driving distance.

Not too long ago, the thought of losing T, even just reading here about people losing their own Ts, was agonizing for me. Now, I am sort of numb. A tiny part of me wants to keep trying and keep fighting, and the rest of me just knows I cannot ever trust her again, so why bother.

I don't think talking to other DBT Ts is an option for me, since they are all in my Ts practice and so are her close colleagues and technically probably her employees. Their relationship with her is going to be a priority to them over anything having to do with me.

adding more just to say that I saw lauru's post saying that she can only allow herself to authentic in T, can only show the depression and anxiety there and nowhere else. Which is a horrible feeling, but I don't have even that much any more. My T will not meet me where I am, if I'm not where she wants me to be then she treats me harshly. I can't do it. I love her and I hate her. I want to die and I want to live to try to fix things with her. I am so. ****ing. angry.

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by zooropa

T didn't say "you are too borderline" she just said I have too many needs, need too much reassurance, draw close to her and then push her away too much, ask her to repeat things I "should" know by now...all kinds of things that are to my mind sort of classic bpd behavior. If my T can't take it, I am well and truly screwed.

Hey Zoo,

I know your angry right now and really upset after all that has happened and I think it's understandable!

She honestly doesn't have to tell you she won't quit on you or won't fire you hun, a therapist wouldn't be liable for ending therapy, esp not if they refered the client on or brough the therapy to an end because they did not believe it was helping the client.

The part of your message I have quoted here: Weren't these the things she said whilst the rupture was happening? She hasn't said them since though has she? It sounds like all those words that she said, which really hurt (understandably) are still going aroundin your head and getting you down?

Its really difficult when we want to be accepted completely by T and then these BPD behaviours get in the way and although they are somewhat natural reactions for us, to T and other non borderlines, they are hard to understand.

how has contact been between sessions since the rupture?

xxxx

[ECHOES]

zoo, for what it's worth, my T is not a DBT therapist. She is a psychodynamic psychoanalytic therapist and as luck would have it (because I didn't know that my diagnosis was BPD at the time) one of her areas of specialty is BPD. She is a LMHC and MSW and also underwent psychoanalytic training (which is how I found her).
She's wonderful, very patient, accepting, and available between sessions by phone and now by email (although she may or may not respond because we are using it as a way for me to open up more rather than for immediate connection which I could have by phone because she provides her cell phone number).

I just wanted to post this because I know that DBT is recommended for a person with BPD and I wanted to say that sometimes what's good and what works is just what's good and what works. I think that other kinds of therapies are also good therapies for growth.

[WePow]

(((((((((((Zoo)))))))))))))) I am so sorry that you are in so much pain.
I don't know what else to say. Just sorry that you hurt.

[SpiritRunner]

(((((((((zoo)))))))))) I don't have many words or good advice either......but just want to reassure you you aren't hopeless OR beyond help. You are still trying, aren't you.....and T is still trying, isn't she? You are not beyond hope or help......but I understand the feeling, I have felt that way, I DO feel that way sometimes, that I am too much rooted in my BPD too, plus the bipolar......but that's a distortion and not true. My T is not DBT......but doesn't find me a hopeless cause either, she says I have come such a long way, but it's hard for me to see it. Nonetheless, I choose to believe the positive......I hope you can find some positive to hold on to, to choose to believe in.....

((((((((((zoo)))))))))))))

Please don't be so hard on yourself!

My T really, REALLY believes that we all have a drive to heal...and that whatever we're doing is an attempt to get to that place of wholeness.

If we haven't learned healthy ways of coping, learning, etc., all we have are the things we've figured out for ourselves...whether it's dissociating, or running away, or ED stuff, or cutting, or whatever. It doesn't mean that we're "bad" or "too sick" to be helped or anything like that. It means that we need help learning a new way to be.

I know you know I ask my T for reassurance a lot. I remember at one point, I asked him something, and he answered. And then later in the same session I asked him again, and he said "did you hear what I said earlier?". And I told him that after years and years and years and years of being told I'm bad, I'm unlovable, whatever that it makes sense that I might need to hear the opposite over and over again. And he got it, thankfully. It makes sense to me that you need reassurance, and I'm sorry that T is being so frustrated about it.

I don't have BPD, but I do have Complex PTSD, which seems like almost the same thing. I've done a ton of healing, without DBT. It's not the only way...it is one way. There are others.

Please be gentle with you. It sounds like you want to turn a lot of this on yourself and being "borderline"...things are just more complex than that.

Lots of to you, my friend

[rainbow8]

((((((((((zoo))))))))))

My T is not a DBT T either. She knows I have BPD but doesn't treat a diagnosis, but a person. I agree that DBT is only one way to treat BPD. I'm so sorry you're feeling so crummy about your therapy. Do you think your T addressed your concerns that caused the rupture and all your bad feelings? It sounded like you did, but now you have doubts again. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make you feel better. Try to remember that you are YOU, a beautiful person, and not a "borderline".

[googley]

((((((((((((Zoo)))))))))))))

I know that DBT has provided you with a groundwork when you were really struggling. That it saved your life as you have said in other threads. But you should know that there are other types of empirically supported treatments for BPD, DBT is just he most well known. You may want to look into others and see if there are any people trained in them in your area.

(((((((((((Zoo))))))))

[swimmergirl]

((((((((((((((zoo)))))))))))))))

I don't have any brilliant ideas, just wanted to reiterate that you are not beyond hope. You ARE worth it. You are still very much in your emotional state and sometimes it is hard to be rational while emotional, at least it is for me. Go with your gut, trust your instincts, get another T if you need to, but don't give up. You can do this. We are rooting for you. Root for yourself, you are not beyond help. I agree with others that it sounds like your T might be burned out, but that is not burned out with you. When you have given yourself some time "off", try to decide if it is worth the effort to repair the rupture with your T. If yes, do it. If not, find another but don't give up! You are strong. We care. And YOU are worth it. ((((((hugs)))))

[Sannah]

Zoo, you are working on the relationship right now, isn't this the hardest part for those diagnosed with BPD? Maybe you are feeling bad because you see Mt. Everest in front of you because of your experiences. Keep working on the relationship Zoo and turn the Mt. Everest into a hill..........

[zooropa]

I'm really close to giving up. Thank you all for encouraging me to keep going.

I find that any encouraging or supportive things my T has said since the rupture just won't stick with me. What sticks are the things she said that were hurtful or invalidating.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by zooropa

I'm really close to giving up.

I find that any encouraging or supportive things my T has said since the rupture just won't stick with me. What sticks are the things she said that were hurtful or invalidating.

Is this ^ a BPD thing? Are you going to work through this way of interacting with the world?

[zooropa]

it is probably a bpd thing. I have actually stayed away from identifying too
Closely with any one dx, particularly bpd, because I have more than one dx and because of the sigma against bpd. So I'm not incredibly well versed in all aspects of bpd. I have been reading more lately, though, and when I see so much of myself in what I read, it makes me wonder why my t seems so frustrated and exasperated with me when she has chosen to specialize in bpd.

[Sannah]

So what are YOU going to do about all of this? Are you going to tackle this and take it down?

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by zooropa

it is probably a bpd thing. I have actually stayed away from identifying too
Closely with any one dx, particularly bpd, because I have more than one dx and because of the sigma against bpd. So I'm not incredibly well versed in all aspects of bpd. I have been reading more lately, though, and when I see so much of myself in what I read, it makes me wonder why my t seems so frustrated and exasperated with me when she has chosen to specialize in bpd.

Hey hun, I feel I started you thinking more about bpd when I asked you if you had it as I seen some of the traits in you that i see in myself ....im sorry. Try not to focus so much on the BPD, it can help explain some things but in some ways it's not good to focus on it because then it makes you feel like you cant change things which is wrong..you can, it can happen

I think it's understandable that it may take a good while for your relationship with T to heal after all the water that has gone under the bridge. Can you tell your T how you feel about the Rupture affecting things for you now? It's not really a bpd thing at all this, its just kind of what happens when we have had a bit of a falling out with someone- it's hard to get over and forget the bad things sometimes but it will happen if you give it a chance hun.

I think you need to talk to her about it in the next session

[zooropa]

I want to work through this, to learn and gain something, to make it all worth it. I feel like I'm running out of energy and will to try, but I'm still going.

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by zooropa

I want to work through this, to learn and gain something, to make it all worth it. I feel like I'm running out of energy and will to try, but I'm still going.

glad you are still going......proud of you. that is a good attitude with which to approach it. I relate fully to feeling like I don't have the energy, but I am still determined too to do the best I can these days......

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by zooropa

I find that any encouraging or supportive things my T has said since the rupture just won't stick with me. What sticks are the things she said that were hurtful or invalidating.

Those things that were learned in childhood still have a powerful pull, so you keep falling back into them even now. Writing over those old brain paths with new learning takes a long time! Wish it weren't so.

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

Hey hun, I feel I started you thinking more about bpd when I asked you if you had it as I seen some of the traits in you that i see in myself ....im sorry. Try not to focus so much on the BPD, it can help explain some things but in some ways it's not good to focus on it because then it makes you feel like you cant change things which is wrong..you can, it can happen

I think it's understandable that it may take a good while for your relationship with T to heal after all the water that has gone under the bridge. Can you tell your T how you feel about the Rupture affecting things for you now? It's not really a bpd thing at all this, its just kind of what happens when we have had a bit of a falling out with someone- it's hard to get over and forget the bad things sometimes but it will happen if you give it a chance hun.

I think you need to talk to her about it in the next session

diz, I forgot to say, my thoughts and feelings about bpd were in no way triggered by your or anyone else's posts. Really.

My T has never been very focused on talking about bpd, and so I haven't either. I figured I am the way I am and I will work on changing that, giving it a label isn't particularly effective. Except in this situation, when I am sort of slapped upside the head with behavior that I seem unable to control or to change. That makes me start to wonder why, and that leads me to reading more and the more I read the more I see myself in textbook definitions of bpd.

anyway. It's not you, and I don't want you to feel bad or guilty.

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by zooropa

diz, I forgot to say, my thoughts and feelings about bpd were in no way triggered by your or anyone else's posts. Really.

My T has never been very focused on talking about bpd, and so I haven't either. I figured I am the way I am and I will work on changing that, giving it a label isn't particularly effective. Except in this situation, when I am sort of slapped upside the head with behavior that I seem unable to control or to change. That makes me start to wonder why, and that leads me to reading more and the more I read the more I see myself in textbook definitions of bpd.

anyway. It's not you, and I don't want you to feel bad or guilty.

Hey im glad I havent made you feel bad about having bpd symptoms. It's hard to feel the way most people with BPd do. *hugs*