[Sannah]

My other thread on being unsettled with the workers in my home got me looking into attachment. I found more recent work on attachment. It really helped me see why some of us are avoidant and others seek out attachment. It has to do with how you view yourself and others. The table is pretty cool. I'm definitely dismissive (had okay self worth and didn't trust others).

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...ed=0CDkQ9QEwAg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_in_adults

Which attachment style are you?

I also wanted to share what I learned about emotional regulation. :

Originally Posted by Sannah

I've been reading up more on attachment. It really is fascinating. I didn't realize it before but I think that this is also where my anxiety started from. If you have a secure attachment to your caregiver you can go to her and be calmed and comforted. If you have an insecure attachment to your caregiver you cannot go to her and be calmed and comforted, hence, anxiety. There is some focus on attachment and emotional regulation. If you cannot go to your caregiver (or they come to you) and be soothed you continue to be emotionally stimulated and there isn't any regulation. If you can be soothed by a caregiver, they affect and therefore, regulate your emotions and then you learn to do the same thing and you can regulate your emotions.

[Brightheart]

I think it's a little complicated with me. I start out in relationships as anxious/insecure, but with some work, I am usually able to build up to a secure attachment (provided that my friend is patient enough to put up with me during this time period).

[purple_fins]

Cool! Thanks for sharing this.

pretty sure I exhibit "fearful-avoidant" attachment... with sometimes a bit of dissmissive.
I find I often wish to attach to someone but question my worthiness and if they can be trusted... so I then try going it alone. (I can only trust myself) Think I can be very independent most times.... which makes it hard in therapy, I don't feel comfortable depending on anyone to help me-- I learned a looooooong time ago that no one will help-- people only destroy.
but....

the T. I see is changing the layout of my "little island".....
can a person really be trustworthy
Can their actions match their words!??
what a concept for me to grasp.... quite scary.

That part you copied from your other post is very interesting. Makes a lot of sense to me.
I also think once one is a parent they can sometimes find paths towards healing, as they now see that no human is infallible- we can make dumb mistakes and sometimes not even know we made such an impact on a small little life. I've realized in some situations that it was NOT intentional hurt, so I especially needed to let those instances go. does no good to dwell on those.(IMO) even if the adult never sees the damage or apologizes-- me giving it "peace" is what really matters.

I appreciate your insights and sharing Sannah, thank you.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Sannah

So what does one do when attached to their space? This attachment to a caregiver is important, so if you don't have a good attachment what needs to be done?

I think you have done the first part, accidentally in noticing what happens with you and the space. You are an adult so good attachment to a care-giver (parent) is not something that is going to happen or where much can be gained in thinking about what was, what did/did not happen with one's parents. You now know you really like your kitchen "too much" So, you move out of your comfort zone and learn to better support yourself in "strange" situations. One cannot get better at something (being out and about in strange situations) without practice in doing just that; it's like meeting people, you cannot get good at it, the small talk and initial dialog and figuring out how to give and take and decide what you "want" from interaction with another, without practicing it over and over.

I would "experiment" with being out of your kitchen and see how it feels. I would ask a friend if we could bake cookies together in her kitchen, maybe, see what that felt like.

My mother died when I was 3 and for a year my father sometimes had to find a care giver for me at the last moment because he had to go to work and my brothers were all in school, etc. When he remarried when I was 5, my stepmother started taking me everywhere with her but I didn't know her either! Think about it; she'd take me to her brothers' families and leave me with my new "cousins" for the day because she had to do something she couldn't do with me along. I was left in strange circumstances wondering if someone might/might not come back for me? That had been the pattern for most of my life (my mother had not been able to care for me consistently since I was 18 months old or so). So what happened in "adult" life?

When I was a teen, babysitting for neighbors/family friends made me really uncomfortable. I only realized in the last 10 years that it is because I have to go to other people's homes and I'm uncomfortable in other people's homes because they're not "mine" and I might be "stuck" there the rest of my life, no one coming to get me! Today, I am uncomfortable in my stepson's/daughter-in-law's house with the grandchildren! When we go babysit, I only go if my husband is going with me, we babysit together. I "could" go babysit alone but would be really uncomfortable.

However, knowing what I know about myself makes a lot of difference! I know it is just based on my childhood experience (which isn't happening now) so not a "true" situation. I am actually fine and, when necessary, can "be" fine, my adult self can easily override my child self. That is the object for me, not to become comfortable in other people's houses but to understand myself and be able to respond appropriately to other people when in their houses. Yes, if I were dropped off at a stranger's house for the day I'd be more anxious than many other people, I could deal with it because I have defused the trigger (understand the situation so it isn't some unknown something that might get me in real time).

You understand now about you and your kitchen :-) Maybe explore why the kitchen (instead of your bedroom or the corner of your living room where the computer is or some other spot) and get to the bottom of your memories. Did what attachment your mother afforded happen in the kitchen?

My stepmother use to bring a banana when she had to pick me up from school or an activity where I hadn't had a chance for a snack between lunch and dinner; I mostly remember her bringing one every time she picked me up from college to take me home for the weekends. Consequently, I'm very fond of bananas :-) They are comforting to me, make me feel "safe" and cared for.

[Sannah]

Thank you for your replies!

Perna, the kitchen is where you get nourishment! Isn't our first attachment with a parent over receiving food!

[rainbow8]

Thanks, Sannah. This thread is interesting to me. I think I'm both anxious-preoccupied and fearful-avoidant. I didn't have a secure attachment to my mother because she was so anxious and I didn't feel calm and safe with her. At least that's what I think happened. The best part of therapy is when I feel safe with my T. I have a secure attachment to my T now; she knows how to comfort me and calm me.

[SpiritRunner]

I don't know how to define me, I think there is some dismissing, some avoidant, some preoccupied/anxious........I think I fall into the unresolved sort of category! No wonder my emotional regulation is helter-skelter, at times I can, many times I cannot regulate it properly. Lack of secure attachments......because I am not sure my attachment with my H is so secure right now, and I am not sure how to define my attachment to T, though I think it is still somewhat insecure! Hence my attachment to order in my living space, because that is something I can more easily regulate than my emotions or my attachments to others........
Interesting for me to ponder, even though I have a headache at the moment limiting my cognitive function a bit.....

I think there is also a category of Disorganized attachment which is a combination of advoidant and anxious. The person approaches because they truly do want to attach to an another, but then the level of anxiety increases and fear of being overwhelmed or engulfed sets in and the person detaches and she moves away again. This cycle can be repeated over and over again, until the person is exhausted and just gives up or the person she is trying to relate to walks off in frustration. This is me. On one level, I want to attach and have intimacy, but the anxiety of having to be vulnerable, trust and give up my independence (fear of dependency) makes me push away and "go it alone."
But as Perna says, this was all learned through my early experiences in childhood and the world is not that way anymore because I am an adult. What worked when I was a child and helped me survive, is no longer a workable way of functioning and relating in the adult world. As I've started to recognize my pattern of relating, I get more skilled at circumventing my dysfunctional way of relating to others. It's not an easy process but it changing! Interesting thread.

[Abby]

Interesting. I think an attachment to a primary caregiver is very important but surely it cannot define a person. E.g if a child has a secure attachment with a parent but then gets bullied incessantly at school - would that not change their self esteem and therefore their attachment type?

Based on the article and my gut feelings (so I may be wrong!) I would say I was fearful-avoident and dismissive. I think I fluctuate between the two. Sometimes I think i'm bad and sometimes I think others are bad. It depends.

But I don't think how I interact with others has anything to do with my early relationship with my parents. I think perhaps it is less about other people and more about how they/their actions are perceived. E.g. I think I'm quite sensitive (and certainly was a sensitive child) and this has created a hyperaware frightened state. I think it is like purple_fins says everyone makes unintentional mistakes but a child doesn't have the understanding to realise that, it only knows the consequence so it perceives something entirely different from the original intentions.

I don't know what I'm trying to say or add to the conversation so i'm gonna shut up now!

[Sannah]

Actually, securely attached children don't get bullied. Those who get bullied and succumb to it (give the bully the reaction that they are looking for) are vulnerable and have low self worth.

[googley]

I think I am fearful-avoidant. I know I want close relationships, but they scare me. My T actually asked me something about this in my last session. We were talking about how anxious I was about talking about hard things, and she asked if the anxiety wasn't only about fears of her reaction, but also fears of becoming closer. I couldn't really say at that time. But I think it was both.

[granite1]

interesting articals sannah.i would guess i an fearful,avoidant.

[lifelesstraveled]

mostly fearful–avoidant, with some dismissive mixed in.

I was terrified of my mother an two older sisters (to this day I have NO idea why) and my father was a very emotionally distant parent. I didn't have any other adult figure in my life.

I've always been afraid to open up to people and unable to express how miserable i was. I grew up very independent (at eight i was doing my own laundry and staying at home alone) and was never really emotionally close to anyone (though I did and do have a group of friends I consider my best friends, but I don't confide in them ever). Part of me is ok with it and another part desperately wants to change this because I can see that the way I interact (or lack there of) affects me.

Anyways, thanks for posting!

[zooropa]

I would say that I'm fearful-avoidant-preoccupied. I definitely see myself in the fearful-avoidant description, but then I am also preoccupied, insecure, and clingy in what relationships I do form that are anything but superficial.

blah.

[learning1]

I've seen this chart before. I've been preoccupied and/or secure in romantic relationships. My most recent ex was very dismissive. I have other ex's who were preoccupied, like me.

In other, nonromantic relationships, or when a relationship hasn't become romantic yet, I can be fearful or secure.

Do you know why you're dismissive, Sannah?

[suzzie]

fearful-avoidant. but im much more so than what it says.

[PTSDlovemycats]

My T says that I am fearful-avoidant.

[sunrise]

I am fearful-avoidant. My ex-husband was dismissive-avoidant. Yikes--bad combination!

I like to think that through therapy I am becoming able to be more of the secure type. I feel my attachment to T is secure.

[maggyjo]

I am unsure what to think of attachment theory. My last T was big on attachment theory and I found her quite distant. It was really odd.

I know I am fearful avoidant and often dismissive, but I have a 21 year marriage and I am attached to my children. I just don't seem to be able to carry it into any other relationship. I hate when thing don't fit into nice neat little boxes. LOL.

Maggy Jo

[Sannah]

Thanks everyone for sharing. I have never heard of this model/theory before and I find it very interesting.

Granite, what I find interesting about you is that you chose the label which results from low self worth and lack of trust in others but you do get close to others here. You really allow others to get close to you here. So IMO you must trust others more then you think?

Same with you Suzzie. I feel that you also allow others to get close to you here.

Maybe I am in the same boat with this even though I chose the one which doesn't trust others?

Originally Posted by learning1

Do you know why you're dismissive, Sannah?

I don't trust others because of my mother. My self worth is adequate maybe because of my dad? My dad had problems but much less than my mother. I just always remember feeling that I can't rely on anyone for anything.

Of course I have worked on this over the years and I have improved. I am very close to my husband and children and we have excellent communication but I still don't have close friends!

I figured out over the last few years what I do to keep others back (like be different from everyone else) and I distrust group pressure and always want to be an individual.

[peaches100]

I fluctuate between preoccupied and fearful-avoidant. . .maybe to the degree that i am almost disorganized.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by peaches100

I fluctuate between preoccupied and fearful-avoidant. . .maybe to the degree that i am almost disorganized.

The common factor in these is your low self worth but fluctuating between trusting people and not trusting people.

Whenever someone has put 2 of the categories down I looked at it this way. They fluctuated with their own self worth or with trusting others (only one of them and the other one was stable). Pgirl fluctuated with 3, I would call this the disorganized.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by learning1

wikip says "Investigators commonly note the defensive character of this [dismissive] attachment style. People with a dismissive–avoidant attachment style tend to suppress and hide their feelings, and they tend to deal with rejection by distancing themselves from the sources of rejection (i.e., their relationship partners)."

I didn't notice this "defensive" explanation up there ^ with my previous reading. I clicked on it and explored and read that this attachment style uses the most defense mechanisms and it refreshed my memory that defense mechanisms are for dealing with anxiety! Yeah, I had my share of anxiety. There were 4 levels of defense mechanisms listed. I am assuming that you move up the levels with your degree of personality development. The fourth level of defense mechanisms were mind blowing! Here they are:

Level 4 - Mature

These are commonly found among emotionally healthy adults and are considered mature, even though many have their origins in an immature stage of development. They have been adapted through the years in order to optimize success in life and relationships. The use of these defenses enhances pleasure and feelings of control. These defenses help us integrate conflicting emotions and thoughts, while still remaining effective. Those who use these mechanisms are usually considered virtuous.

They include:

• Altruism: Constructive service to others that brings pleasure and personal satisfaction.
• Anticipation: Realistic planning for future discomfort.
• Humor: Overt expression of ideas and feelings (especially those that are unpleasant to focus on or too terrible to talk about) that gives pleasure to others. The thoughts retain a portion of their innate distress, but they are "skirted round" by witticism.
• Identification: The unconscious modeling of one's self upon another person's character and behavior.
• Introjection: Identifying with some idea or object so deeply that it becomes a part of that person.
• Sublimation: Transformation of negative emotions or instincts into positive actions, behavior, or emotion.
• Thought suppression: The conscious process of pushing thoughts into the preconscious; the conscious decision to delay paying attention to an emotion or need in order to cope with the present reality; making it possible to later access uncomfortable or distressing emotions while accepting them.

OMG! Altruism and introjection are such a part of who I am and it might be keeping me in my dismissive state! I'll have to see what I am doing here and what purpose it serves for me......... hmmmm.........

[SpiritRunner]

more reading here leads me to believe, because of that defensive character I was just reading about in posts above, that I am primarily dismissive......I do what it says in that definition: I tend to suppress and hide my feelings, and I tend to deal with rejection by distancing myself from the sources of rejection (my husband, my T, a friend sometimes.......) And the anxiety that I have now could be stemming from that......
Those high level defense mechanisms ARE mindblowing! Wow, I think if anything I do introjection and sometimes sublimation, definitely thought suppression and anticipation. A dash of dark humor in there too......

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by Jaybird57

I think there is also a category of Disorganized attachment which is a combination of advoidant and anxious. The person approaches because they truly do want to attach to an another, but then the level of anxiety increases and fear of being overwhelmed or engulfed sets in and the person detaches and she moves away again. This cycle can be repeated over and over again, until the person is exhausted and just gives up or the person she is trying to relate to walks off in frustration. This is me. On one level, I want to attach and have intimacy, but the anxiety of having to be vulnerable, trust and give up my independence (fear of dependency) makes me push away and "go it alone."
But as Perna says, this was all learned through my early experiences in childhood and the world is not that way anymore because I am an adult. What worked when I was a child and helped me survive, is no longer a workable way of functioning and relating in the adult world. As I've started to recognize my pattern of relating, I get more skilled at circumventing my dysfunctional way of relating to others. It's not an easy process but it changing! Interesting thread.

Yes, disorganized attachment with the primary caregiver is another category. And it does define our view of others and how we interact with others because attachment is a core issue. We may have a hard time seeing how that happens in our adult relationships, or it may be pretty clear yet what is not clear is what to do about it. That is where my relationship with my therapist is healing in itself, as well as our looking together at other relationships. It is where my lack of sense of self originates.

For me, unpredictability is the main effect of disorganized attachment. And of course it gets repeated over and over in many ways large and small. There is so much to explore and learn. That unpredictability is part of life for everyone, that it can also be sponteneity, that we are separate even when we are attached (so important!), that we expect disaster eventually, etc.

This is a really interesting thread!