[skysblue]

Tell me, how have you figured out your emotions? And how did you move past them or correct them or understand them? How long did it take? I want my T to see them and tell me how to overcome those that are dysfunctional. "Just sit with them", she says "and the answer will eventually come." Oh, man...when??

[dismantle.repair]

Yeah sorry, I still have no idea what emotions are :P
If you find an answer, let me know.

[elliemay]

In my opinion, a feeling is a feeling. You'll never not feel something, although the actual perception of it may be less.

Sitting with feelings is wise advice.

Well some people call it sitting with feelings, I actually prefer the term wrangling them, because that's what it's been like for me.

So often we have emotional reactions about or to our emotional reactions. This causes spiraling and panic.

However, if you can distance yourself a bit from the emotion, develop the skill to step outside of yourself objective you can learn to say "okay I feel sad,mad/bad/etc..., but it's not the end of the world" then the "sting" of the emotion becomes less.

You also become less reactive to it. It becomes easier to carry and you can move on through it.

[kaliope]

wow skysblue
thats a toughie to answer. i know after i had my breakdown i was overwhelmed with many emotions. i was depressed and suicidal, suffering from ptsd and bipolar, my emotions were totally irrational. now, a few years later, things seem mostly under control except for anxiety issues and the emotions from that i help control just knowing that i experience things more intensely than so called normal people. medication helped reduce my emotions quite a bit. then i took DBT which helped me learn how to identify emotions and sort things out the unrealistic thougths that led to these emotions thus reducing their intensity or doing away with them all together. i noticed quite a change after dbt. now i am just overwhelmed when my pstd is triggered and my emotions are anxiety driven. usually when i can remember that it is normal for anybody to be experiencing anxiety or a similar emotion in the same circumstance i am able to accept and move on from the intensity of the feeling. none of this has happened overnight though. i have been in therapy for over two years. being able to manage my emotions has not been a result of any one thing but a culmination of all the work i have been doing.

[sunrise]

My first step was learning to recognize if I was feeling something, because I was so good at stuffing something deep inside, instantaneously, that I didn't know I even had a feeling about it. "Doesn't that make you angry?" No. "That sounds like it hurts." Nope. And so on. So just learning to listen to myself and look within helped me, and not be so fast on the draw to try to protect myself from hard feelings by stuffing so deep inside. That's been my biggest breakthrough.

I have never thought that my feelings were incorrect so I didn't work to correct them. My feelings just are--not right, not wrong. It is true my feelings can be hard to sit with and feel, instead of stuffing, but being a challenge doesn't make a feeling incorrect. Once I went to my T and told him I was so sad about something (my father's impending death, months and months before he died) and it was affecting me at work and school. I would get sad in the middle of the day and start crying, while other people were around! Bleah. It was horrible. I was just so sad and it was escaping into my everyday life. Very dysfunctional. I went to T and asked him for help with this. I wanted him to help me better be able to control my feelings and not be sad in public like that. He would have none of that! He told me nothing useful about how to do that. Instead he told me I should just allow myself to be sad. If I had to cry, then do it. He said it wasn't the end of the world if someone saw me crying and not to worry so much about what other people thought. He also said I could let some of that sadness out in session with him and that might help relieve some of the pressure of trying to keep it all inside when out in public.

Originally Posted by skysblue

I want my T to see them and tell me how to overcome those that are dysfunctional. "Just sit with them", she says "and the answer will eventually come." Oh, man...when??

I'm not sure there is an "answer" to how to overcome feelings. I think my T believes you shouldn't "overcome" the feelings but let yourself feel them. It's painful, but they don't go away by denying them. They just lurk inside, waiting to get out. I'm not sure what "answer" your T is thinking, but it would be interesting to hear more about what she means.

This is hard work you're doing.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by skysblue

And how did you move past them or correct them or understand them? How long did it take?

Kaliope's answer reminded me about my DBT group. Is that process described on PC?
In a nutshell, a year is divided into quarters, each quarter is devoted to a group of similar emotions and/or a theme, like mindfulness, assertiveness, etc. (my booklets are buried somewhere, maybe somebody can expand this list?).

And every week you learn about those things - you end up taking the whole universe of emotions and breaking them down into 40-some parts.

And at the end of the year, you're a human with every possible emotional skill, ta-da. You take bubble-baths and you can say NO.

Really, one session we went around the table saying 'no' out loud. It wasn't easy for a lot of us.

There is a teacher's guidebook for the Linehan textbook, and there are also "student" workbooks, but not BY Linehan, as I recall. If you take a class, they probably give you copied handouts.

The workbooks are stuff like sentence completion, which I really enjoyed (thru these I discovered that the word "deserve" is not in my vocabulary in a positive sense), and the acronyms, which I thought were weird, sorry, and just a lot of new ways of looking at emotions that I found very helpful and really had no understanding of before the classes.

[skysblue]

I think I'm going to take a break trying to figure them out. They're impacting how I interact with my T. She and I spent the whole session 'wrangling' with them but I've decided that I don't want to do that anymore. I don't see it leading anywhere. I'll just accept my dysfunctional reactions and just live with them. Next session we're going to stop this unfruitful exploration and instead 'play'. That's my plan for now, anyways. I'm really ready to play and have fun so, by God, that's what we'll do. Now, I'm looking forward to next session.

[learning1]

so... how do you separate dysfunctional feelings from dysfuntional reactions? How do you know which is a feeling and which is a reaction? And can you do something about dysfunctional reactions?

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by learning1

so... how do you separate dysfunctional feelings from dysfuntional reactions? How do you know which is a feeling and which is a reaction? And can you do something about dysfunctional reactions?

Reactions are actions prompted by thoughts or feelings which are prompted by some event. You also have a reactive feeling which is the feeling prompted by some outside stimulus.

My T and I know exactly what she did that prompted my dysfunctional 'reactive' feelings that have prompted my dysfunctional 'reactive' actions. We've spent 3 sessions so far trying to get me to understand why my feelings are that way and I still have no idea.

[crazycanbegood]

skysblue, let me know when you figure it out

[nicoleb2]

I'm still working on this one too.My T tells me to "feel your feelings" ALL the time... she told me this week she was frustrated because I had gotten worse about stuffing everything as far down as I could instead of doing more to allow the emotions...

Guess it is something we all have to figure out in our own time

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by crazycanbegood

skysblue, let me know when you figure it out

I'm counting on magic. And some new stuff came to me in a dream last night. Wow!!!!

[learning1]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Reactions are actions prompted by thoughts or feelings which are prompted by some event. You also have a reactive feeling which is the feeling prompted by some outside stimulus.

My T and I know exactly what she did that prompted my dysfunctional 'reactive' feelings that have prompted my dysfunctional 'reactive' actions. We've spent 3 sessions so far trying to get me to understand why my feelings are that way and I still have no idea.

I'm getting a little confused but I think I understand what we're talking about. I want to explain what I was talking about better if I can.

At first in your op I think you wrote about dysfunctional feelings. People replied that feelings are what they are. It's good to accept them, sit with them, etc. I think they were saying feelings aren't/can't be dysfunctional. (I'm not sure.)

Then in a later post you called it a dysfunctional reaction. A reaction probably could be dysfunctional I think.

Is your t calling either the feelings or the reaction dysfunctional? Anyway, I think it's great you're so open to trying to let yourself figure it out.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by learning1

I'm getting a little confused but I think I understand what we're talking about. I want to explain what I was talking about better if I can.

At first in your op I think you wrote about dysfunctional feelings. People replied that feelings are what they are. It's good to accept them, sit with them, etc. I think they were saying feelings aren't/can't be dysfunctional. (I'm not sure.)

Then in a later post you called it a dysfunctional reaction. A reaction probably could be dysfunctional I think.

Is your t calling either the feelings or the reaction dysfunctional? Anyway, I think it's great you're so open to trying to let yourself figure it out.

okay, I'll tell you my experience. I think I've already posted it on another thread. My T added some restrictions to my phone contact with her. A normal person maybe would have been unhappy about it but would have engaged in a productive conversation about it and immediately learned that my T had suggested the new restrictions only because she thought I had requested it.

My emotional overreaction was a full body experience. Complete and overwhelming shame and embarrassment coursed through my body. It was close to having a panic attack. My throat became constricted, I could barely breathe, my stomach was in knots, I started sweating, I couldn't think any more, I wanted to run out of the room. In fact, I tried to leave but my T asked me to please stay.

So, yes, feelings are what they are. I did sit with this feeling but it was so strong I had no choice. More mild feelings can sometimes be stuffed and ignored and that's not good and that's when we should acknowledge them and try not to judge but listen to what they're saying.

My emotional response was way out of whack and way too extreme. It caused me intense discomfort.

Now, that was the dysfunctional emotional reaction. My dysfunctional 'action' overreaction is that I proclaimed that I will never ever ever call her again. Now, when the thought even crosses my mind to pick up phone to call her, I begin to experience the beginning of a panic attack again.

My T has continued to tell me that we had a misunderstanding and she invites me to call whenever and as often as I would like, but in my emotional mind there is extreme 'danger' in the act of placing a phone call. I am not able to get past it. My rational brain understands how over-the-top this reaction is but my emotional brain is just incapable of changing its feelings.

So, that's what I'm trying to figure how. Why am I having such a extremely powerful reaction and how can I overcome it? My T has suggested that I force myself to call her but I'm just unable at the moment. It feels like I would die if I did that.

I hope that answers your question.

[dizgirl2011]

wow that's such a huge question as there are so many answers and at the end of the day everyone is unique. Even two people who have experienced the exact same thing can have different feelings.

Thoughts always preceed feelings, so to try and calm down the feelings that may seem too much for the given situtation, I think you have to challenge the irrational thoughs (like people do in CBT). However sometimes sitting through them and realising that they come and go, can also be helpful.

(((((((((skysblue)))))))

Oh, boy, I SO get what you're talking about.

I have had emotional reactions like that to things that happen with T...things that appear from the outside to be "no big deal" but that trigger something deep, deep inside.

I'm not even sure I would call the reactions "dysfunctional". T has told me (over and over again) that feelings are information. I think they probably always serve a function.

For me, when those big feelings would come up with T, it was pointing directly at something from my past. And even if we never found out what that thing was, by working through it together, something inside was healed a little bit.

You are obviously feeling the feelings...for me, the next step is to talk to T about them. Even though I *want* to run away more than anything, I MAKE myself move *towards* T. And we talk and talk and talk and talk about it, and usually, I end up having to take a leap of faith and try trusting him again, and in the end, I actually end up feeling a little safer than I did before the rupture happened.

T and I have a very close relationship...and he has said before that part of that closeness is BECAUSE we have worked through so many of these sorts of things.

It used to happen a lot, and now it's super rare...and I think it's because I've internalized a new message. T isn't someone from my past who is going to hurt me, or who wishes I was never born, or who sends mixed messages that I have to try to figure out or suffer big consequences. T is someone who cares, and who believes in me, and who wouldn't hurt me intentionally, ever. He's "replaced" so many of those old messages/experiences by giving me a chance to redo them with him.

I know it's SUCH a hard place to be, skysblue. When do you see T again? For me, the only real relief comes when I can see T and start working through it.
to you.

[unaluna]

Skysblue, thanks for the re-explanation. I think the salient factor here is the exact emotion itself, not a generality of dysfunctional emotions taking over at inappropriate moments the majority of the time.

I spent each of my past 4 years with my T concentrating on a theme. One year's theme was shame. He wasn't thrilled when I announced it. Like why would you go delving into these experiences, don't you want to just forget them? (This is one of tne reasons I tell him he's not smart enough to be my T.) But I had some distinct bodily sensations that would occur at seemingly odd times, and finally it was working on this theme that helped me piece together the shameful secret(s) of my past, and relieved me of these feelings.

Looking back, I think my test came two months ago, when we had a rupture which was potentially very shameful, and I have been proud in thinking recently that I handled it the way the REAL me would have - I found PC, and I was cool. I didn't overblab details about it to my friends, but I got a lot of good feedback from them, and I respected my T's and my own privacy. Hmm - I didn't shame myself. Frankly, I would call myself shameless before this incident. When your parents don't respect boundaries, yet are constantly shaming you, that's a bizarre mixed message. Hence a porous boundary?

Gershon Kaufman at Michigan State uni is the king of shame, I like a book of his with a purple icon on it I think, big book. He talks about "dissmell", like distaste - that's how I felt mummy always looked at me, with an expression of dissmell. Anyway, Gersh and a leonard something guy.

And what was really weird for me was, I had told all the stories of my 'secret' in t before over the years, but had never put them together as a WHOLE. Never connected them. Once I did, the world started changing. Not ME - the WORLD!

Ps. ditto everything Treehouse said up there.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by treehouse

(((((((((skysblue)))))))
You are obviously feeling the feelings...for me, the next step is to talk to T about them. Even though I *want* to run away more than anything, I MAKE myself move *towards* T. And we talk and talk and talk and talk about it, and usually, I end up having to take a leap of faith and try trusting him again, and in the end, I actually end up feeling a little safer than I did before the rupture happened.

This incident happened on July 20th and we have been talking about it. I have told T exactly what my feelings are and we've discussed it ad nauseum. I tell her that I can cognitively understand that my reaction is overboard but I am unable to alter my feelings.

I've decided that there's no point in talking about it anymore. We're not going anywhere with it. It's just back and forth- I explain my feelings; she listens compassionately and then she will explain again my faulty reasoning (I know my faulty reasoning); suggest that it stems from shame (I understand it stems from shame); advise that I sit with the feelings (Yeah, I've sat with the feelings); explore when else I've felt like that (Yeah, so, it, of course has happened previously with others), and yadda yedda yadda.

So, we're at a standstill and right now I'm sick of the discussion because it feels like we're going in circles and besides I don't care if I ever call her again and I don't want to and I won't. So enough talk already about that issue. I will accept that I have this sensitivity and I plan on changing the subject next Wednesday to something more interesting and where we might have a chance to be productive. If I have my way, we'll leave this topic behind forever.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by hankster

And what was really weird for me was, I had told all the stories of my 'secret' in t before over the years, but had never put them together as a WHOLE. Never connected them. Once I did, the world started changing. Not ME - the WORLD!

Ok - so you were able to put them together - does that mean that the shameful feelings disappeared just by doing that? I would guess that my feelings stem from childhood experiences (I have very little memory of my childhood) but even knowing that does not take away the feelings.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

Thoughts always preceed feelings, so to try and calm down the feelings that may seem too much for the given situtation, I think you have to challenge the irrational thoughs (like people do in CBT).

Oh, my thoughts tell me that my T is compassionate, that her words were a result of a misunderstanding, that she really isn't rejecting me big time, etc. etc. So my thoughts are rational and I don't need to challenge them - the thoughts are not distorted. It is my feelings that are uncontrollable.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Ok - so you were able to put them together - does that mean that the shameful feelings disappeared just by doing that? I would guess that my feelings stem from childhood experiences (I have very little memory of my childhood) but even knowing that does not take away the feelings.

Are you, is your T, interested in retrieving your childhood memories, or believe it is possible or worthwhile to do so? Some (I) do; behaviorists don't. And there's a difference between "knowing my past affects my present" and finally feeling the horror and anger (however de-intensified by medication and cynicism and distance) inherent in these past life events.

You DID name the thread, I wish I could figure it out. Some things will just be serendipitous. My T, when hugging me goodbye, used to say, "Oh Pancho!" and he told me the reply was, "Oh Cisco!" That triggered a memory for me - those are the closing lines of an old Saturday morning TV show. I remember laughing at the two male characters saying them, and my mother slapping me upside the head as she stomped thru. Upon research, I found there WAS indeed a gay context - all part of the shameful secrets.

You could try making a quick list of childhood incidents, then grouping them and going into longer descriptions later. I can't relate - I feel like I have those old movies running in my head all the time, I even smell the smells sometimes.

Sorry if this doesn't sound supportive. You do work so hard; but you can't ask what you don't know, and neither can we! Rueful! Hope you find a new direction soon. One should bubble up shortly, it's the training effect. Just when you think you're doing all this exercise for nothing and you're running even slower, bingo you've cut a minute off your mile.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by hankster

Are you, is your T, interested in retrieving your childhood memories, or believe it is possible or worthwhile to do so? Yeah, I guess we are. Whenever I remember something, I share it with her. I also asked my brother and my aunt some stuff but mostly my childhood is buried. I have little recall. I know I didn't suffer from abuse but maybe just some emotional neglect.

Sorry if this doesn't sound supportive.I love getting feedback. It helps a lot as I try to figure out how to approach this. You do work so hard; but you can't ask what you don't know, and neither can we! Rueful! Hope you find a new direction soon. One should bubble up shortly, it's the training effect. Just when you think you're doing all this exercise for nothing and you're running even slower, bingo you've cut a minute off your mile.Hmmm, that's an encouraging thought.

So, I've planned my next session. Just like me to do that. I've decided to get off the pain track and share with T some awesomely fun stuff that has happened lately. And this fun stuff is a result of progress made in therapy. I don't want her to get the idea that I'm all gloom and doom.

And like I mentioned before, I just give up on figuring out this other stuff. I just need to accept that that is my particular disability and live with it. So what that life isn't perfect? Do I need to whine and complain about it? No - just move on. It will be a relief to stop talking about what doesn't seem solvable.

[rainbow8]

Sometimes when you leave a subject alone it will come back again when you're ready. I suspect this will happen with you. I understand "wanting to figure it out". I wish very much I could figure out why I am the way I am but I can't. My T thinks EMDR will help get me unstuck and uncover some childhood issues but I don't like EMDR too much. We have to do it occasionally, not often.

So, go ahead and plan your session but let what comes up, happen. I always used to come in with my agenda, with my former T, but my new T didn't like that. Therapy is much more spontaneous and I'm getting to feel my feelings, but it's much more intense and scary. I agree with not talking about what happened with her boundaries and phone calls again if it's not productive. I also wonder if you need to discuss her fees about the letters when you were away so it doesn't become a barrier.

About your childhood. Do you have photos to jog your memory? Letters? Anything? I wonder why you wouldn't recall much of your childhood. I hope you have a good session. Sometimes lighter, positive sessions are good for you!

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I also wonder if you need to discuss her fees about the letters when you were away so it doesn't become a barrier.

Thanks Rainbow for your thoughts. I very much appreciate it. There is no way in h*ll that I will bring up the fees. It is and will remain a small wedge between us but who says we have to have 100% positive relationship with anyone let alone our T. She's good enough that she can help me with other stuff.

The extra fees also contribute to me feeling adamant that I will never call her again. I asked if I could text her if I ever needed to reschedule an appointment or needed to do some kind of business communication between sessions. She said that was fine. It shouldn't take her more than a few seconds to read a short text.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

About your childhood. Do you have photos to jog your memory? Letters? Anything? I wonder why you wouldn't recall much of your childhood. I hope you have a good session. Sometimes lighter, positive sessions are good for you!

I have a few memories - not many. I guess I was just born with that deficit. Some people have excellent memories; I have a very poor memory of the past.