[childofyen]

I want to be mad at T. I like her a lot and I'm working hard to trust her... but she's talking like she wants me to go on meds and I don't want to do that. My rational mind appreciates how gentle she was when the topic came up and how concerned she is and that in the same session she told me she likes me.

But my emotional mind feels betrayed, like the hard work I'm doing is being discredited. My emotional mind wants to go in on Fri and be a snot, and ask her what the heck her job is if it's not to help me cope with the symptoms of depression. I want to demand she tell me why I'm doing all the work of constantly and consistently going out of my comfort zone while she's sitting there trying to shove me off on some pdoc. I want to know what good she is to me if she believes that medication is the solution. And I want to know what else she wants from me... what more could I possibly be doing aside from becoming magically well?? Or is that the problem.. that I'm not well and she doesn't want to deal with me? Are you done, T? Are you tired of me? Are you exhausted by my symptoms? Guess what.. You're not alone. I'm friggin tired of them too!!!

So yes. I guess I am angry. I've been so unaware of myself that I didn't realize I was angry until someone flat out asked me. I just shove the anger down, and shove the feelings down, and comply and comply and comply, and try to be a good client so she can help me. And all of that compliance.. all of that restraint later and she STILL can't handle me without meds. I'm screwed.

I don't want to let this anger out. Obviously I have here, lol, but I don't want to in real life. I don't want to be seen as hostile. I don't know how to approach this in T. I don't know what to tell her or how. I don't know how to do anything other than completely stuff this anger or completely act out on it. What do I do? Where is the balance between the two? What do I say? I need some guidance, please...

Your t is probably bringing up the idea of medication as a way to help you with your depression. Depression is sometimes not only a situational problem, but also a physical issue that meds can help with. It is very doubtful that she is trying to "shove you off on some pdoc." On the contrary, she is trying to help you. I have suffered with depression for many years, and when I am most depressed, quite frankly therapy isn't terribly effective. My mind is just too dull and mushy (can't think of better terms, sorry) to be able to really function most effectively in therapy. By being on meds, my mood normalizes a bit and stabilizes and my mind gets back to really being able to function on all cylinders.

I doubt that she thinks medication is the "solution". Rather, it is one tool that can work in conjunction with therapy to help you.

Get back into your rational mind and think that through. You don't have to see a pdoc or go on medication, but at least understand that your t is not giving up on you or trying to get rid of you. That isn't rational thinking at all, and right now you need to get back into your rational mind about this.

What are you REALLY mad about? Does this come from old fears of abandonment, rejection? Poor self concept? This really isn't about your t; this is about some kind of fear you are experiencing from old stuff.

[Wren_]

This is something I struggle with a lot also; the anger issue but also what to share and what to not share. Something that struck me powerfully awhile ago is reading someone write something along the lines of ..... why are we in T if we aren't there to tell them everything? how can they help us unless we share? why are we paying them if we are keeping what we need help with to ourselves? (now remember i said I struggle with this also so no way am I saying any of it is easy).

It does sound like you need to share your anger with T ... see where it is coming from, how to process it, how much relates to what your T said and how much is other things also coming into the equation ... sharing this should be healing for you and part of the therapy; and shouldn't mean you are viewed as hostile although sharing that concern is probably something else that would help to address

(Just so you know, I'm in the same place with the meds / hard work issue as well)

[skysblue]

Absolutely you need to share that with T. Our rational minds probably don't need much help but it's our emotions where we seek guidance. We don't like the emotions that are scary or painful or embarrassing or shameful but if we don't address them in therapy, where and when will we? It's the only way T can help

[childofyen]

I guess I don't know how to say I am angry, how to feel angry, without behaving angry. My T does not deserve the brunt of my anger... so what do I do to honor my anger without being consumed by it?

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by childofyen

I guess I don't know how to say I am angry, how to feel angry, without behaving angry. My T does not deserve the brunt of my anger... so what do I do to honor my anger without being consumed by it?

In what way would you be consumed? Big feelings or would you be acting out?

[childofyen]

Both, I think. It's hard for me to even acknowledge that the anger is there without feeling a rush of intense anger. Adrenaline, I guess? And I want to rant, and be condescending, and point the finger, and curse a lot. But I don't want to be angry at T. I know she is doing the best she can, and I am doing the best I can... I just don't know how to be angry without acting angry.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by childofyen

Both, I think. It's hard for me to even acknowledge that the anger is there without feeling a rush of intense anger. Adrenaline, I guess? And I want to rant, and be condescending, and point the finger, and curse a lot. But I don't want to be angry at T. I know she is doing the best she can, and I am doing the best I can... I just don't know how to be angry without acting angry.

What if you just say the words you're saying now - how you're close to feeling very very angry and how that anger scares you, etc. etc. So, you'll have the opportunity to talk about the anger along with the issue that is causing it.

[childofyen]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

What are you REALLY mad about? Does this come from old fears of abandonment, rejection? Poor self concept? This really isn't about your t; this is about some kind of fear you are experiencing from old stuff.

I don't know the answer to this. I wish I did.

It's perfectly ok to be mad at T.

However, I know that I don't recommend meds lightly. When I do, it's because I believe there is something TRULY chemical going on. And sometimes the BEST course of action is a combination of an anti-depressant / anti-anxiety and therapy also. I am not fond of ever just saying "Take meds, bing, you're done". No. You'll still need therapy and to talk things out, and process. Medication and therapy hand in hand may be best so that there isn't chemical interference.

Talk openly and honestly with T. I really don't think T would try to just "pawn you off" to have you go 'get meds and get better'. It just doesn't work that way.

I think being angry with T, she can walk you through it so you don't get consumed/as consumered by it. One of the way to work on dealing with the anger is to really try to get in touch with where the anger is coming from and if you can choose to respond differently to the situation and to what your T is saying. You have a lot of power in making a different choice and seeing it in a different light.

Good luck to you. ((hugs))

[childofyen]

Originally Posted by stormyangels

It's perfectly ok to be mad at T.

However, I know that I don't recommend meds lightly. When I do, it's because I believe there is something TRULY chemical going on. And sometimes the BEST course of action is a combination of an anti-depressant / anti-anxiety and therapy also. I am not fond of ever just saying "Take meds, bing, you're done". No. You'll still need therapy and to talk things out, and process. Medication and therapy hand in hand may be best so that there isn't chemical interference.

Talk openly and honestly with T. I really don't think T would try to just "pawn you off" to have you go 'get meds and get better'. It just doesn't work that way.

I think being angry with T, she can walk you through it so you don't get consumed/as consumered by it. One of the way to work on dealing with the anger is to really try to get in touch with where the anger is coming from and if you can choose to respond differently to the situation and to what your T is saying. You have a lot of power in making a different choice and seeing it in a different light.

Good luck to you. ((hugs))

Thank you for this. I've been through this before. Ten years ago with my last T when I was much less stable than I am now. I took her advice and went on the anti-depressants, which made me manic so I took mood stabilizers, which made me psychotic so I took meds for that too... I've told current T about this, and I've expressed that I am, for myself, against the medication angle. I don't think it's a viable option for me, even though I do believe it works for many other people. I thought that my new willingness and maturity would be enough to make therapy with this T productive... and now I feel like it's not enough. I feel like I'm not enough and that meds will again rob me of a real life.. I feel stuck and the T I wanted on my side is so concerned about me that she is disregarding my concerns. I guess under the anger I'm confused and sad and very scared that I'm hopeless.

[learning1]

Since you asked for suggestions somewhere between stuffing your anger and letting it rip... I don't know as this is the right thing for you to say, but here's something I think is somewhere inbetween... (purple where I reworded slightly)

But my emotional mind feels betrayed, like the hard work I'm doing is being discredited. I want you to help me cope with the symptoms of depression. I want to know why I'm doing all the work of constantly and consistently going out of my comfort zone if you think just some pdoc is what I need. I want to know what good therapy is to me if she believes that medication is the solution. And I want to know what else she wants from me... what more could I possibly be doing aside from becoming magically well??

I don't always think expressing anger at a therapist is something to nurture in ourselves, but it sounds like you usually don't express anger and you really feel it now. So if you can do what the posters above suggested, and talk to your therapist about how you feel really close to being really angry, I think that's a lot better than saying what I wrote. I also think a lot of what you wrote are valid points that one could discuss in a pretty logical, detached way- there isn't anything ethically wrong with asking the questions. I don't know what I'm trying to say. I don't think you should try to excessively suppress your feelings when you talk about this, I'm just hoping it might make you feel more comfortable bringing it up to know that they are good, valid questions that I think anyone should get answers to, whether they are angry or not.

[rainbow8]

I understand the meds issue. My T suggested meds to me and I got upset and didn't know what to do. I decided not to take them, at least for the time being.

As far as expressing anger when it's hard to talk about it in therapy--what about coloring it on paper? When I did that at my last session, it was a release to color over an entire paper with red crayon! I didn't even know I was that angry. I couldn't talk about it but I sure could draw it! Just an idea.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by childofyen

I've been through this before. Ten years ago with my last T when I was much less stable than I am now. I took her advice and went on the anti-depressants, which made me manic so I took mood stabilizers, which made me psychotic so I took meds for that too...

If you are open to taking meds, it might be worth revisiting this with a pdoc. More is known now than 10 yrs ago about different meds and how they act, and new meds have been developed too. I understand, though, about not wanting to take meds. I am not too keen on them either--meds of any type, not just psych meds. But if you don't want to take meds based on what happened 10 yrs ago, it might be worth a discussion w/pdoc.

My former husband was quite an angry guy and he went on an anti-depressant and it helped his anger a lot. For him, it turned out his anger was a symptom of his depression.

There are definitely other ways to work on anger without taking a medication. This stood out to me in what you wrote: "I guess I don't know how to say I am angry, how to feel angry, without behaving angry." Those are skills that can be taught. Your T can teach you how to express your anger without acting out. Have you told him you would like to learn this?

Originally Posted by childofyen

I guess under the anger I'm confused and sad and very scared that I'm hopeless.

That is helpful to know the emotions under your anger. I hope you can share with your T.

[childofyen]

Originally Posted by sunrise

But if you don't want to take meds based on what happened 10 yrs ago, it might be worth a discussion w/pdoc.

I suppose you're right. Committing to a discussion doesn't have to mean committing to take meds. Thank you for the perspective.

There are definitely other ways to work on anger without taking a medication. This stood out to me in what you wrote: "I guess I don't know how to say I am angry, how to feel angry, without behaving angry." Those are skills that can be taught. Your T can teach you how to express your anger without acting out. Have you told him you would like to learn this?

That is helpful to know the emotions under your anger. I hope you can share with your T.

Thank you. Yeah, I think I will be able to share with my T. She's very supportive. I really don't like going in when I'm confused because I tend to dissociate, etc so I'm glad I can process it here with you all before hand.

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by childofyen

I don't want to let this anger out. Obviously I have here, lol, but I don't want to in real life. I don't want to be seen as hostile. I don't know how to approach this in T. I don't know what to tell her or how. I don't know how to do anything other than completely stuff this anger or completely act out on it. What do I do? Where is the balance between the two? What do I say? I need some guidance, please...

i say let her have it.

its really meaningful to me and a good sign when a client can get angry with me and tell me about it. you have valid questions. your feelings are valid. and if therapy is to actually help you, its important that you share those things with her. otherwise, it will become a wall that is up between the two of you and things will stall....

[Dr.Muffin]

Originally Posted by childofyen

Both, I think. It's hard for me to even acknowledge that the anger is there without feeling a rush of intense anger. Adrenaline, I guess? And I want to rant, and be condescending, and point the finger, and curse a lot. But I don't want to be angry at T. I know she is doing the best she can, and I am doing the best I can... I just don't know how to be angry without acting angry.

i bet that's something she could help you with if you let her....

[dismantle.repair]

I could understand your fear of meds (especially with a poor experience the last time).
I don't resist things generally, and the first and second time it was mentioned to me, I shot her down plainly. She was surprised by the tone I took, and how much I tried to deviate from the meds option. I resisted and challenged her for it for MONTHS.
And then she asked why I resisted something that could be so beneficial to me. I told her I was against it, she said she noticed, I asked her how she noticed sarcastically (because I thought I made it pretty clear...). She was appalled at my sarcasm apparently :P But she weathered it.
And in the end, I realised that things weren't gonna get better till I try... I was still very angry, but I realise I've been angry at myself, more than her.

[laceylu]

For me meds are poison and nasty and a sign of weakness. Meds can make me crazy and I do not trust medicine. But when I started hallucinating when my depression was really bad, I made the choice to start taking the medicine. It was not an easy choice. I wish 100 times over that I did not need to take the meds. My depression lifted and I was able to start therapy after I had a memory flood and panic which meant more meds. My depression is here to stay and without the meds I would have not had the courage to start T. Now my relationship with my husband is better and I do better at work. Everything is better with the meds even though in the past meds seemed to make my life worse. JUST food for thought. I think that is what your T maybe trying to do is open up all the avenues of healing for you. Meds are better now and docs are smarter about how they work more now than ever in history.