Pushing Ts buttons

Hi Rainbow,

I feel for you because you are in an endless turmoil which you feel you can't get out of. But the good news is that you can.

I don't know what pushed your therapist's buttons, perhaps something you said in the email to her but as most people have said, you need to ask her.

The ironic thing is, the thing you want most - to feel cared for and have a good relationship with your therapist - is what you are pushing further and further away.

I know you cannot switch off your feelings but I think you need to sit with them more, esp the uncomfortable ones and not act one them, at least not without waiting 24 hours to think it over. This way you won't send impulsive emails that you regret (hopefully).It will be painful but learning to push yourself this way will hopefully lessen your amount of distressful interactions with your T.

Your T definately cares but she can only take so much or the ' I love you, I hate you' behaviour which you aim at her. Put yourself in her position hun.
I know it hurts to know you can't have what you want from your Therapist but wouldn't it be good to at least get the best that is possible from your professional relationship with her? Perhaps thats what you need to think about and aim for.

I don't really disagree with this, but there may be another point in looking at "problematic" behaviors that we do in therapy, and that's to see whether we engage in this type of behavior with other people in our lives and whether it is causing problems for us. With my own T, he likes to point out to me when I'm being "precise." It's his delicate way of saying that I'm correcting him as he's trying to support me or validate me-- he's reflecting back what I'm saying and I'm saying back something between "you're missing the boat" and "not quite, it's really more X than Y." He used to sit back and tell me to "school" him, but I made fun of him for that and he doesn't do that anymore.

Now, I'm not going to stop being precise-- as a lawyer, precision is the difference between somebody going to jail versus going home. But I have realized from therapy that trying to be precise with my family or friends can be alienating to them, and can stop me from being able to accept what they are offering me. So I try to be aware if I'm in a situation seeking support from other people that I don't need to be so demanding of the way that people give back to me. I try to seek out the "correct" parts that they are offering me and let the rest of it go, and breathe in what they are offering me. Strangely enough, I now feel more supported by the people in my life than when they were more "precise"-- because I would back them into an emotional corner that they couldn't get out of until I'd extracted what I wanted from them.

A lot of what I've gotten out of therapy is awareness, looking at how I relate to my T, seeing the parallels with other people (or sometimes everyone!) in my life, and making changes based on that awareness.

So if I were looking at the behavior that rainbow has identified as problematic (crossing her T's boundaries, for example), I'd be looking around at my H and my friends and asking myself whether I routinely or occasionally cross anyone else's boundaries, or otherwise try to "push" myself on people too much, or too quickly. I'd take a look at relationships that have ended when I didn't want them to end and ask whether this might have been a factor in them. Etc, etc.

Anne

Dr. Muffin: Thank you. I think some of my problem is that I spent most of my life NOT expressing my feelings. They were bottled up inside of me. Gradually, in therapy, I learned to let them out and now I go too far in the other direction! I have to find a middle ground.

sunrise: What you wrote sounds good, and I thank you for your suggestion but it's very difficult to simply STOP behaviors. If it were, we'd have no addicts of any kind. I'm going to try, though. I lost a lot of weight a couple of years ago, but I gained most of it back. At least I know that I CAN stop a bad behavior even if I couldn't keep the weight off. I want to be able to stop googling my T and looking up her family online, but even as I write this, the urge is there. I'm not going to do it, but the compulsion is not going to go away that easily. What about SI? I've never done that, but for those who do, it's not easy to stop.

dizgirl: I'm thinking about what you said. I know I have to try sitting with my feelings and not emailing her right away after my session. She's told me that too. That's going to be harder than not looking at FB. I have this compulsion for her to know what I'm feeling right away. Possibly we could allow more time at the end of the session for that although the feelings usually hit me later.

I thought I was accepting what my T gave me, at least I did during my first year of therapy, then something happened. I'm not sure what.

Anne:Thanks for your input. I don't try to push myself on people; in fact, I'm pretty much the opposite. I'm not assertive though that may be changing. I do try to form deep relationships with others and get frustrated when most people don't want that. Fortunately I have a friend now who has good boundaries but who will be there for me when I need her. It's reciprocal, too. I want too much from others and I'm disappointed, so that happens in RL too.

This maybe absolutely 100% true but sooner or later every good mother should allow the infant to learn the skill of self soothing.

I'm worry that you are not allowing your therapist to help you do this.

This maybe dramatic, or something you just need to "try on", but perhaps you could encourage your therapist to set limits, OR at least give yourself enough credit for being able to respect the ones already in place.

I know this is hard. Very very hard, and there are times when it just seems like too much, but it isn't.

You can do it.

Rainbow, I did say that it wouldn't be easy, so yes, I understand one cannot do this overnight--I have been there myself so I'm not just talking off the top of my head. But I believe in you and your strength, and I think with effort you can stop these behaviors. I don't mean you can simply stop overnight, voila! It may be a gradual process. Maybe try at first what dizgirl suggested--don't call or email your T immediately when you want to, wait at least 24 hours to start. Then gradually lengthen the time. Same with the googling her or other unwanted behaviors. Even if an impulse arises during session, take a deep breath and count to 10, even share with your T what's going on, "I'm struggling right now not to demand ______" or whatever it is you would like to prevent. Then maybe your T can offer some support or assistance. At the very least she will know you are trying. I agree and reiterate, all this is not easy, but you can do this, rainbow. (You mentioned SI--I agree that is something else that can be hard to stop.)

ellimay: I try to visualize my adult Self holding the baby, along with my mother and my T. I couldn't do it last session but I have been able to do it before.

I don't understand what you are saying about limits. My T set one on emails some time ago. She said she'll email me once per week, and it would be very short, and not discuss therapy. Then I decided that wasn't good for me 2 weeks ago, so I was the one to set the limit that she won't email me back anymore.

Do you mean my T doesn't set enough limits for me? My former T had many limits and it didn't help me. When I started therapy with this T, she kept telling me over and over, and still does, that if emailing her helps me to unload, it's fine. But, oh....I think I see. It is not helping me so much now, so maybe I need to write them and not send them. She suggested that as an option for me.

It is sad that the emails were an amazing gift to me in this therapy. I feel so sad not to have her emails anymore. I have at least 100 in my drawer to reread. I loved them!! Maybe I need to talk with her about that. Maybe I wasn't supposed to depend on them as much as I did? It makes me sad.

sunrise: I will try waiting before I send an email. It's always right after my session when my feelings are all stirred up. I hardly ever call her, though. It is hard to accept having NO contact between sessions. It makes me sad right now, thinking about it. I never had email privileges with my other Ts, but I was allowed to call, except for one. It was hard getting through the week when I couldn't call, with that T. I did it, though. Now it seems much harder because I know how good it felt when I emailed and my T emailed me back. But my emails were short last year. I SO wish I could have handled getting her responses and not getting upset that time. Then I wouldn't have to give them up. Thanks for your vote of confidence that I can do this. Is it worth it, though?

You know I just had an idea as i read your last post and I wondered if maybe you got a journal and wrote those emails out in a journal throughout the week and maybe an hour before your session go back and see if there is something you need to share with her. If there is just bring it. I dont know just an idea...I dont think stopping the emails is a good idea at least not cold turkey unless you have an alternative...like the jounal. I dont know if that might help or not...i know for me to write someone when emotions are stirred typically leads to regret for some of the things I have said and doesnt matter what it is about. The idea behind waiting a day or more before doing so is to prevent the emotions from overriding your more rational perspective. Rainbow you have alot you are seeing and like anything change can be very scarey. I think in the end continuing therapy to make any changes will leave you a happier healthier person. It may not feel good initially because it is new and uncomfortable but in the end you will find some of these changes very good for you. Again dont know you very well...so just my 2 cents.

Hi Rainbow

I've had to work through a few addictions, both chemical and behavioral, and what I've learned is that as I experience success, I find out I CAN do it, and it helps me be successful again.

So, for example, maybe I want to give up SI. The big feelings come that make me want to SI, but I have committed to not doing it. It's really, really, really hard. I might have a list of other things in place that I can try...focus on my breathing, light a candle, go outside and look at the sky, call a friend, write down my feelings with crayons on paper and let myself use any words I want, go for a walk, etc. etc. etc. Eventually, the urge to do it goes away, and I get to feel like "I MADE it through the feeling!" and it feels good. And then maybe the feeling comes back an hour later. Maybe it's harder this time, and I just lay on the bed and feel it and wait for it to pass. I might pound my fists on the bed, because it's frustrating to have such big feelings and not know what to do with them. And eventually, the feeling will pass again. And eventually, it will come back.

It's SUPER HARD. It's no fun. It feels impossible. It hurts. AND the more I do it, the more I know I CAN do it, and knowing I CAN do it makes it just a little bit easier over time.

I don't SI anymore, but this example is how it's gone for me while I've worked through a ton of different bad coping skills. It's not easy but it really can be done.

Do you think it would help to come up with things you could do instead of look for T online or e-mail or whatever? Sometimes if I think of it as "I'm going to do this INSTEAD" instead of "I'm NOT going to do X", it's a little easier.

Thinking of you

YES!!!

no one here can answer if it is worth it. only can make that call.

we can go on for page after page of reason why you should change or how you can or should change your ways but honestly YOU have to decide at some point if you are going to.

many of us here have had unanswered needs growing up. many didn't get our emotions met by parents, caretakers etc. i get that (more than you can ever imagine( but at some point you have to decide to step up & take responsibility for your actions.

look at it this way..it''s impulse control..do you have enough $$...probably not. i don't. i could use more to pay my bills etc. banks have money. icould rob a bank to get some extra but i don't.

i have to learn to make do with the constraints placed on me due to my budget, income etc. i could rob a bank, store, etc but that will not get any extra cash without positive consequences. i could pester my friends but that also will lead to maybe temporary changes but in the long run they will soon tire of me bothering them. eventually i will have ti figure out how to manage on my own.

at some point you have to do the same. your t can help you but really you have to do the work on your own too. you say other t's have told you the same message...so at what point will you take it to heart?

change is hard, scary & difficult. sure it is nicer to have someone to hold your hand & make it nice...we all need a little nice once & a while but we all need to fall out of the nest to learn to fly too.

so the way i see it you can wallow in this 9,000 responses & pages of discussion or at some point you can decide to just take that step out of the nest & trust your t, trust yourself & be the adult & let the kid just sort of tag along.

stumpy

This is really what needs to be worked on. This is the core of this issue. Can you ask your T how you 2 can work on this? The needs of this infant need to be met so that this infant can mature. These needs need to really be explored so that you 2 can work on this. Our development gets stunted when the needs aren't met. Unmet needs are what get us stuck.

Your intepretation is spot on...

Sannah, my T and I have been working on the unmet needs of the infant by her encouraging me to "hold her" and tell her I'm there for her. It's not easy to do.

She believes EMDR can help with places I'm stuck, but I can't remember my infancy, so I'm not sure how it will work.

As far as knowing WHY I feel that way, we don't know. It could be because I was a preemie and was in an incubator. I don't think I'll ever know for sure WHY the infant has those needs.

When we do IFS I can visualize a child crying, but not a baby. When I hold my T's hand, I feel safe. When she pulls it away slowly and I still feel it, she is teaching me to internalize the caring. My T is very good at encouraging me to love the immature parts of me. Maybe it would help if those parts would cry, but I can't cry in therapy; I can just visualize a child crying. I don't know what else my T can do. I'll ask her.

I think that wanting to look on FB, google, and email my T are all attempts to get those needs met. The "baby" wants to connect with "Mommy" all the time and is devastated when she can't. Does that sound accurate?