[granite1]

i asked my T what she would have done if i had decided to miss those sessions.her response was confusing.she asked if this was some kind of test. umm no i wanted to know the answer.then she asked me what i thought she would do(Didn't answer the question)she said she didn't know what i wanted her to say or what i wanted from her(To answer the question)the rest is a blur.i was and am so full of shame and all for even thinking about asking her this question.i just wanted to die and not be there.it was so stupid to asker her anything.i didn't understand her response.will never ask another question again.i promise.god i feel so crappy.i really think she was angry at me asking her this. i think her answer was something to the affect that what could she do?she would try and talk to me about why i would decide this and that T isn't about her doing anything it is about talking that is what she could do.it isn't like i would come to your house or anything.i just don't understand her response she seemed so angry.i wanted to take it all back.disappear right then and there . then she said it wasn't fair that i expected her to answer the question and i wasn't going to answer the questions she asked me (but she didn't answer).I'm so confused.

i did tell her that i was feeling so angry at her because i thought she was giving me and ultimatum. she said that was how i heard it and some other stuff.i was completely spiraling out and could only process some of what she was saying. she said it was black and white thinking and that we need to talk about where that comes from and then when i shrugged my shoulders she said that i do know where it comes from.i didn't know and i don't know .i have been told this before and people have used this term with me.i know what it is but why and how i have no idea.i never payed any attention when it was being talked about wanted nothing to do with it.i would get angry violent or anything to not hear it or deal.so no i don't know why i do it or how or anything.

then she wanted to know how i felt about her answer i think and i told her that i was scared she was angry at me for asking her that question and for telling her that i was angry at her(All of this was a huge mistake)she asked some other stuff and i couldn't answer but then she asked me if i needed to check with her to see if she was angry at me so i wouldn't have to wonder all week and worry about it.that maybe i should ask henope no way i already made the mistake of asking her one question I'm not stupid .i learn from my mistakes and am cured from ever asking her anything.i told her no that the worry will go away and she said OK and i left.still worried but i couldn't ever let her know this.life sux

These are the feelings and rwactions within ourselfs that bring us to therpy. I could feel your 4hame as I read, and have been in that position many times, but have eventually revisited it and when the transference fog clears was able to work through it and wonder why it felt so impossible at the time. Its hard, but with time you will be able to "check" things through talking with your T.

[roads]

(((((((((***granite***)))))))))

I'm so sorry, granite, that life sux. I wish you had asked your T one more question, the one she invited you to ask, because I'm sure the reason she invited you was so she could tell you that she wasn't angry.

Are there any other feelings you might take for anger? Something that sux less, like impatience maybe.

You seem to remember the session pretty well, & it sounds (to me) like there was some good stuff accomplished. You understood what she said about a T's job being to talk & not to do--like she's not going to come to your house & get you if you didn't show up for a session! That's good to know.

You two care so much about each other. I don't think she could ever be really angry with you. It wouldn't be professional--& she is very professional.

I'm not sure, though, that it wasn't fair of you to expect her to answer your question about what she would have done if you had missed those two sessions. That seems like a fair enough question to me. Maybe she was a little less than perfect there. But no one is perfect, right?

Hang in, granite. It may not feel like progress when it's so painful, but even a quarter inch closer is getting there.

Roadrunner

There was a famous Polish rabbi that lived around the end of the 18th/beginning of the 19th century. In part, he was known for being a gifted teacher. One day, Rabbi Burim was out walking with a group of students when he stopped and pointed to another group of men. "They're dead", he said to his students. They replied in confusion, "what do you mean, they're dead, they are out walking around?"

"They've stopped asking questions," said Rabbi Burim.

I told this story to my son a couple of weeks ago as we were having a discussion about questions, what questions can imply, and what you do with the answers to the questions you ask. In law, the traditional advice is never to ask a question (in court, on cross exam) that you don't know the answer to.

I do have a point, actually more than one. One is obviously that it is good, even critically important, to ask questions of your T. You were brave for asking the question. Keep asking questions and otherwise asking for what you need. But the other point is that once you ask the question, things are kind of out of your hands. I'm not always prepared to deal with the answers to the questions that I raise, or the reaction of the person to the question that I ask.

My impression from reading your description of the interaction is, first of all, it seems like you did a pretty amazing job raising the issue of the "ultimatum" with your T and trying to talk about it. It sounds like it was really triggery to talk about it, but you hung in there and tried to make sense of it. I'm sorry that you were left feeling so confused and upset.

But the other thing I'm wondering about is if you can see, from your observational stance, how you might answer this question if you had been asked it. Not necessarily that you are the T and she is the client, but maybe it would be useful to just think briefly about the question, "what would you have done if I did X?" if it had been asked of you, rather than by you.

My kid has asked me that question before, and the question itself seems to me to imply a dynamic where the presumption is that there will be consequences for "bad behavior." The question itself seems to set up a situation where the asker presumes that she is in a less than equal position to the other and that the other has the power to hurt her.

I wonder if your T was attempting to get at your understanding of the relationship between you and why you would think about your relationship this way. I could see how anything she said in this context might seem like anger, because you are kind of primed to see her in the light of a punishing other.

That said, I generally dislike it when T's, or really anyone, answer a question with a question, or a series of questions. I think a better way to have approached this with you would be to give you a straightforward answer, such as, IDK, maybe "I would have felt sad for you that you were choosing the mother rather than yourself." Then ask her questions in the spirit of, "can we look at what your question seems to be all about? It seems that your beliefs underlying the question are important here."

But, as is often talked about on this board, T's aren't perfect and they don't always know the best way to react to what their clients say and ask. Maybe if you feel like you can't ask her a question again, I hope you can at least raise the issue and tell her how you felt about this exchange, or ask her to talk more about it with you next time.

But please don't think that you shouldn't ask questions, that sounds like it's coming from the past where people tried to silence you. You don't have to be silent now.

Anne

[granite1]

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

There was a famous Polish rabbi that lived around the end of the 18th/beginning of the 19th century. In part, he was known for being a gifted teacher. One day, Rabbi Burim was out walking with a group of students when he stopped and pointed to another group of men. "They're dead", he said to his students. They replied in confusion, "what do you mean, they're dead, they are out walking around?"

"They've stopped asking questions," said Rabbi Burim.

I told this story to my son a couple of weeks ago as we were having a discussion about questions, what questions can imply, and what you do with the answers to the questions you ask. In law, the traditional advice is never to ask a question (in court, on cross exam) that you don't know the answer to.

I do have a point, actually more than one. One is obviously that it is good, even critically important, to ask questions of your T. You were brave for asking the question. Keep asking questions and otherwise asking for what you need. But the other point is that once you ask the question, things are kind of out of your hands. I'm not always prepared to deal with the answers to the questions that I raise, or the reaction of the person to the question that I ask.

My impression from reading your description of the interaction is, first of all, it seems like you did a pretty amazing job raising the issue of the "ultimatum" with your T and trying to talk about it. It sounds like it was really triggery to talk about it, but you hung in there and tried to make sense of it. I'm sorry that you were left feeling so confused and upset.

But the other thing I'm wondering about is if you can see, from your observational stance, how you might answer this question if you had been asked it. Not necessarily that you are the T and she is the client, but maybe it would be useful to just think briefly about the question, "what would you have done if I did X?" if it had been asked of you, rather than by you.

My kid has asked me that question before, and the question itself seems to me to imply a dynamic where the presumption is that there will be consequences for "bad behavior." The question itself seems to set up a situation where the asker presumes that she is in a less than equal position to the other and that the other has the power to hurt her.

I wonder if your T was attempting to get at your understanding of the relationship between you and why you would think about your relationship this way. I could see how anything she said in this context might seem like anger, because you are kind of primed to see her in the light of a punishing other.

That said, I generally dislike it when T's, or really anyone, answer a question with a question, or a series of questions. I think a better way to have approached this with you would be to give you a straightforward answer, such as, IDK, maybe "I would have felt sad for you that you were choosing the mother rather than yourself." Then ask her questions in the spirit of, "can we look at what your question seems to be all about? It seems that your beliefs underlying the question are important here."

But, as is often talked about on this board, T's aren't perfect and they don't always know the best way to react to what their clients say and ask. Maybe if you feel like you can't ask her a question again, I hope you can at least raise the issue and tell her how you felt about this exchange, or ask her to talk more about it with you next time.

But please don't think that you shouldn't ask questions, that sounds like it's coming from the past where people tried to silence you. You don't have to be silent now.

Anne

this made me cry so much because i do feel like i have to be scilent more now then ever.i cant explain it but i do .i'm scared more then ever and she can hurt me and she has hurt me and i let it be this way.she scared me

[mixedup_emotions]

((((( granite )))))

I can feel the fear and frustration in your post....You did an awesome job of raising the topic with T....and I can totally understand the fear that paralyzes...the fear of being hurt...again. It's a scary process. ((( HUGS )))

[StrawberryFieldsss]

my feeling was when i read this op was that your t was trying to get you to ask about peoples feelings instead of assuming what they are.

i know sometimes i think i am picking up on "signals" about what someone is feeling and i have been wrong. sometimes i'm right, but the only way thatyou will really know is to ask. this is a critical tool in learning to relate to people.

i've been afraid of asking in the past because i was afraid of what the answer would be, or i am afraid of someones disapproval. i still struggle at times with this, but for me, now i will just force myself to sit with the disapproval and i find that my anxiety goes down. the more i do this, the better i get

its all a process. i figure youre making some great progress in therapy. good for you. its hard work.

[rainbow8]

granite, I've got to go somewhere now but want to quickly tell you that asking questions is NOT a mistake. I so wish you had asked if she was angry because she is definitely NOT. That comes from your past, not from your T in the present.

I understand your being scared. You've got to tell her she scared you and that you are afraid she is going to hurt you. It's NOT about her, but I know you can't see that yet.

[Sannah]

Hi granite, I think that you did a great job in bringing up these issues!

It sounds like subconsciously you try to "cover all of your bases" with people while you are talking to them. Like you are trying to think of all of the possibilities and outcomes all at once so that you can make your safest bet and come out the least hurt? You had to do this with the mother I'm sure?

[velcro003]

Granite, i know you don't think so but you are doing such a great job! You keep putting yourself out there to your T in tiny bits even if you are frightened. Your "black and white thinking" is also called "Splitting." It is a defense mechanism, and a very good one! Many people do it...I know I have. Here is a definition from Wikipedia:

Splitting: A primitive defence. Negative and positive impulses are split off and unintegrated. Fundamental example: An individual views other people as either innately good or innately evil, rather than a whole continuous being.

Here is some more info I found on it--see if you agree with it

All or Nothing, or 'Black and White' thinking is the thought pattern that allows us to generate a "flight or fight" response to danger. It is still needed in the world today, but not many times a day in relation to non-life-threatening stress (even if it feels like it is).

It is part of the most primitive of human responses: The Fight or Flight Response.

When faced with a life-threatening situation, we must make a snap decision and act on it. There is no time for 'maybe this', or 'maybe that'.

Either decision will create an emotional reaction to allow us to fight or flee to the maximum of our ability.

Earlier in the Depression Learning Path, we talked about the importance of tolerating uncertainty when looking to overcome depression. All or Nothing thinking is the opposite of this. In a survival situation, there is no room for uncertainty, we simply have to decide to either run away or fight. Uncertainty causes hesitation, which would increase our chances of being killed.

But these responses evolved for times that were much more physically threatening. These days they are rarely required, at least not to that extent.

As an ongoing way of perceiving reality, All or Nothing thinking is emotionally and physically damaging. If you spot yourself using this style, challenge yourself to think differently. There are particular words that people often use when thinking in this way. You can learn to spot them.

Always

Never

Perfect

Impossible

Awful

Terrible

Ruined

Disastrous

Furious

To look at how we can begin to incorporate the "gray", take for example a child failing a math exam.

They could say to themselves: 'I'm just plain stupid!' or they could say: ' I'm bad at math but I'm pretty good at English' (or sport, art, making people laugh or whatever it happens to be). The first statement is Black or White while the second focuses on lots of different elements and is not indicative of depressive thinking.

We can all make inner statements about ourselves but that doesn't make them true. Consider the following questions:

• Can I be basically an intelligent person and still do something stupid?
• Can I love my children and still get angry with them sometimes?
• Can my partner love me but sometimes be insensitive?
• Can one part of my life be difficult and other parts be easier and more enjoyable?
• Can a part of my life be difficult now but in the future get easier?
• Can some parts of an experience (such as a social engagement or vacation) be awful and other parts of it be OK?

Becoming less rigid in our thinking allows us to avoid using All or Nothing statements to depress ourselves without examining their validity. Using this 'cognitive' technique will literally allow you to spot what you are doing and therefore challenge its accuracy.

The symptoms of PTSD are intrusive, terrifying 'flashbacks' to the original tramua, which keep the brain in a high state of emotional arousal.
In this state, it is extremely difficult to think in a balanced way, because as we have already seen, when emotionally aroused, the brain's default mode of thinking is 'all or nothing'. In addition, the thought that life will always be as difficult as it is when experiencing traumatic flashbacks is a depressing one in itself.

[skysblue]

There's an example in the book "Mindsight" by Siegel in which he clearly demonstrates how our past and our unconscious will 'flavor' our reactions to signals we receive from other people. He says that if he raises his hand, a person from NYC may be thinking he's hailing a cab, a student may think he's wanting to ask a question and a person who's been physically battered may think he's going to strike.

So, our backgrounds color heavily how we receive this input. If we're not actively watching and observing our automatic reactions, we will default to the habitual, many times dysfunctional responses.

Granite - because of your history you default to interpreting your T as being angry with you with almost every way she responds to you. Try to take a step back and observe yourself doing this.

I have done the same thing with my T. Because of past hurts in my life, I interpreted her behavior as her 'punishing' me. Later on I was able to cognitively recognize that that was not true. I still hadn't been able to emotionally accept the truth but the conscious awareness that this was happening was the first step.

Slowly I was able to bring myself emotionally in line with the truth. All of us can 'save' ourselves. We don't have to stay in the prison of our past hurts. We do have some power here. It's tough and it takes time but sometimes we just have to push hard and be determined to go past our comfort level.

What's the worst that can happen? An emotional feeling of pain is what we fear so often. My T has explained to me that we will always be subject to feelings of pain and that's o.k. We are human and the whole array of emotions is what makes our lives rich and meaningful. It's only when we identify too heavily with that pain that we get too overwhelmed. Stepping back and observing it is the first step.

Granite - try not to make ultimatums for yourself such as "I will never ask a question again." I did that once and I was determined to stick with it at any cost. There was no way I was going to let myself be vulnerable again, I told myself. I would never ever let T hurt me again like that, I said to myself.

But, it wasn't T hurting me, it was my own subjective interpretation. So, I understand, I do.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by granite1

then she said it wasn't fair that i expected her to answer the question and i wasn't going to answer the questions she asked me (but she didn't answer).

There are some questions my T wouldn't answer even when I did answer all of hers. eg:

Me: What brought you to therapy?
T: I'm not going to tell you!

(Try that on your T!)

But anyway, it's silly to expect us patients to be able to answer every question. If we had all the answers we wouldn't be in therapy, would we?

T: (Searching question)
Me: (Long pause) I really don't have any answer to that right now.
T: OK.

And sometimes my T says, "You think you know all the answers, don't you!"

[WePow]

((((Granite))))) It is OK to want to shut down. Just feel your way through this. Your T couldn't give you the answers that you needed. There was a reason behind this. I am certain it was not to hurt you. Ts are strange in these ways. Don't punish yourself. Words belong to YOU. You have a RIGHT to have a voice.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Granite - because of your history you default to interpreting your T as being angry with you with almost every way she responds to you. Try to take a step back and observe yourself doing this.

Wow! You're good at this, Blue!

[learning1]

Originally Posted by granite1

this made me cry so much because i do feel like i have to be scilent more now then ever.i cant explain it but i do .i'm scared more then ever and she can hurt me and she has hurt me and i let it be this way.she scared me

I felt like this when my t said some mean things to me so I understand feeling like they can hurt you and feeling silenced. I'm sure your t didn't mean to hurt you or silence you though. I wish she could have helped you in a way that ended up hurting less for you, but I'm sure she didn't want to hurt you, she wants to help you. I wish she had just told you she would be really sorry if you had decided not to come, like someone else said.

Maybe she couldn't think of the right thing to say fast enough. I don't know. When I read it first, I thought maybe she was afraid you wanted her to help you more than she's really capable of helping. Like as if you wanted her to force you to come instead of skipping, but she doesn't really have any way to do that. I don't know. Or maybe she was afraid you thought she would hurt you somehow if you didn't come. But she wanted to show there isn't anything she could do to hurt you-- like she wouldn't stop seeing you or anything.

Anyway, you are sooooo good at being straightforward about what you are feeling here on PC. I'm really hopeful it will go better for you with you t next time.

[sunrise]

Granite, that sounds like a very tough session. I think your T could have been more straightforward when you asked her the question and avoided confusing you. Instead of answering you, first she wants to know is it a test, then what you thought she would do, and then lamented she didn't know how to answer because she didn't know what you wanted. Sheeesh! Just answer granite's question and quit the hemming and hawing. I know your T meant well, but I think she brought your reaction on herself by not just simply giving you an authentic answer. Do you think it would have helped if she had just simply answered your question? Or do you think she had good reason to worry that she must only answer you with what you wanted to hear?

Granite, I hope you will not stop asking questions in therapy. Maybe you can help your T out by telling her what your expectations are when you ask a question (that she answer). If she doesn't feel she can answer questions when you ask them, maybe she can give an explanation why so that you don't feel you have done something wrong by asking.

[granite1]

i have a bunch of stuff going on this week with my son comming home on leave from okinowa on friday so i havnt had a lot of time to respond but i have been reading and WILL respond to all.your responces are so helpfull in calming me down and seeing things in a differnt light and this is something i need to do. one thing i have thought about somwhat is a question my T asked is what was i getting at?what did i really want to know?.i wanted to know what she would have done if things were differnt.i wanted to know if she would say forget comming to see her anymore because i choose the mother .i wanted to know how you would feel,would you be completely disgusted by my being so week.or would she just not care one way or another and in turn not care about me at all.and have the attitude it is your life do what you want i cant do anything about it.etc...so i guess i could have asked those questions instead of the one i did.

[mixedup_emotions]

(((( granite ))))

I'm so glad that you are open to seeing things differently...and remember, this is all an exploration in order to help you. If you shared those feelings and questions with T, it could lead to some kind of understanding that could benefit you and take you closer towards healing. I know it's super scary....and we get so caught up in the moment and the intensity that we can't see the bigger picture....I need to do this as well, because I find myself SO resistant which slows the process for me. Resistance plays a role as well, in order to preserve safety...at some point, we need to find the strength to push through.

And you're doing SUCH a great job!!

[granite1]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

((((( granite )))))

I can feel the fear and frustration in your post....You did an awesome job of raising the topic with T....and I can totally understand the fear that paralyzes...the fear of being hurt...again. It's a scary process. ((( HUGS )))

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

(((( granite ))))

I'm so glad that you are open to seeing things differently...and remember, this is all an exploration in order to help you. If you shared those feelings and questions with T, it could lead to some kind of understanding that could benefit you and take you closer towards healing. I know it's super scary....and we get so caught up in the moment and the intensity that we can't see the bigger picture....I need to do this as well, because I find myself SO resistant which slows the process for me. Resistance plays a role as well, in order to preserve safety...at some point, we need to find the strength to push through.

And you're doing SUCH a great job!!

this week is a huge week for me and i need to stay calm i really do.i know i tend to be very resistant.i know this about myself.right now i am trying to see how my T must have heard this question and as far as i can see it was completely differnt than i had intended it.i think learning may have hit it about how she may have thought i was asking something differnt.i really did get cought up in the moment and that was it for me as soon as i asked her the question and she said is this a test i completely shut down and not much else of what she had to say mattered.i had a bunch of horrible thoughts running through my head telling me how bad all this was and how bad i am and stupid.it was just over for me.

[granite1]

Originally Posted by StrawberryFieldsss

my feeling was when i read this op was that your t was trying to get you to ask about peoples feelings instead of assuming what they are.

i know sometimes i think i am picking up on "signals" about what someone is feeling and i have been wrong. sometimes i'm right, but the only way thatyou will really know is to ask. this is a critical tool in learning to relate to people.

i've been afraid of asking in the past because i was afraid of what the answer would be, or i am afraid of someones disapproval. i still struggle at times with this, but for me, now i will just force myself to sit with the disapproval and i find that my anxiety goes down. the more i do this, the better i get

its all a process. i figure youre making some great progress in therapy. good for you. its hard work.

i am completely afraid of her answer to weather or not she is angry at me .i could never ask her that.i think i already know the answer.i dont think she was angry with me but i do believe she was frustrated with me big time and i just couldnt handle any more.in fact i had fanticies of having my hands over my ears again saying im not hearing you at all.but i didnt do it

[granite1]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

granite, I've got to go somewhere now but want to quickly tell you that asking questions is NOT a mistake. I so wish you had asked if she was angry because she is definitely NOT. That comes from your past, not from your T in the present.

I understand your being scared. You've got to tell her she scared you and that you are afraid she is going to hurt you. It's NOT about her, but I know you can't see that yet.

thanks raini'm going to try and continue this but i dont know if i can do it

[granite1]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Hi granite, I think that you did a great job in bringing up these issues!

It sounds like subconsciously you try to "cover all of your bases" with people while you are talking to them. Like you are trying to think of all of the possibilities and outcomes all at once so that you can make your safest bet and come out the least hurt? You had to do this with the mother I'm sure?

i really didnt say anything to the mother.there wasnt a right responce or outcome .scilence was the best defence there .that and do nothing

[granite1]

Originally Posted by velcro003

Granite, i know you don't think so but you are doing such a great job! You keep putting yourself out there to your T in tiny bits even if you are frightened. Your "black and white thinking" is also called "Splitting." It is a defense mechanism, and a very good one! Many people do it...I know I have. Here is a definition from Wikipedia:

Splitting: A primitive defence. Negative and positive impulses are split off and unintegrated. Fundamental example: An individual views other people as either innately good or innately evil, rather than a whole continuous being.

Here is some more info I found on it--see if you agree with it

All or Nothing, or 'Black and White' thinking is the thought pattern that allows us to generate a "flight or fight" response to danger. It is still needed in the world today, but not many times a day in relation to non-life-threatening stress (even if it feels like it is).

It is part of the most primitive of human responses: The Fight or Flight Response.

When faced with a life-threatening situation, we must make a snap decision and act on it. There is no time for 'maybe this', or 'maybe that'.

Either decision will create an emotional reaction to allow us to fight or flee to the maximum of our ability.

Earlier in the Depression Learning Path, we talked about the importance of tolerating uncertainty when looking to overcome depression. All or Nothing thinking is the opposite of this. In a survival situation, there is no room for uncertainty, we simply have to decide to either run away or fight. Uncertainty causes hesitation, which would increase our chances of being killed.

But these responses evolved for times that were much more physically threatening. These days they are rarely required, at least not to that extent.

As an ongoing way of perceiving reality, All or Nothing thinking is emotionally and physically damaging. If you spot yourself using this style, challenge yourself to think differently. There are particular words that people often use when thinking in this way. You can learn to spot them.

Always

Never

Perfect

Impossible

Awful

Terrible

Ruined

Disastrous

Furious

To look at how we can begin to incorporate the "gray", take for example a child failing a math exam.

They could say to themselves: 'I'm just plain stupid!' or they could say: ' I'm bad at math but I'm pretty good at English' (or sport, art, making people laugh or whatever it happens to be). The first statement is Black or White while the second focuses on lots of different elements and is not indicative of depressive thinking.

We can all make inner statements about ourselves but that doesn't make them true. Consider the following questions:

• Can I be basically an intelligent person and still do something stupid?
• Can I love my children and still get angry with them sometimes?
• Can my partner love me but sometimes be insensitive?
• Can one part of my life be difficult and other parts be easier and more enjoyable?
• Can a part of my life be difficult now but in the future get easier?
• Can some parts of an experience (such as a social engagement or vacation) be awful and other parts of it be OK?

Becoming less rigid in our thinking allows us to avoid using All or Nothing statements to depress ourselves without examining their validity. Using this 'cognitive' technique will literally allow you to spot what you are doing and therefore challenge its accuracy.

The symptoms of PTSD are intrusive, terrifying 'flashbacks' to the original tramua, which keep the brain in a high state of emotional arousal.
In this state, it is extremely difficult to think in a balanced way, because as we have already seen, when emotionally aroused, the brain's default mode of thinking is 'all or nothing'. In addition, the thought that life will always be as difficult as it is when experiencing traumatic flashbacks is a depressing one in itself.

black and white,all or nothing,splitting are words that i have heard most of my life. i was always so angry at the people using them because it wasnt always in a helpfull way. i never listened to any of it and resisted any explination.i have heard this always but my T said to me that i know where this comes from and i didnt.i think sometimes she assumes i am famillar with a lot more then i am do to my past T history.but it was very differnt then this one is.i am more open to hearing about all of this than i have been if it will help me .but not sure how

[granite1]

Originally Posted by skysblue

There's an example in the book "Mindsight" by Siegel in which he clearly demonstrates how our past and our unconscious will 'flavor' our reactions to signals we receive from other people. He says that if he raises his hand, a person from NYC may be thinking he's hailing a cab, a student may think he's wanting to ask a question and a person who's been physically battered may think he's going to strike.

So, our backgrounds color heavily how we receive this input. If we're not actively watching and observing our automatic reactions, we will default to the habitual, many times dysfunctional responses.

Granite - because of your history you default to interpreting your T as being angry with you with almost every way she responds to you. Try to take a step back and observe yourself doing this.

I have done the same thing with my T. Because of past hurts in my life, I interpreted her behavior as her 'punishing' me. Later on I was able to cognitively recognize that that was not true. I still hadn't been able to emotionally accept the truth but the conscious awareness that this was happening was the first step.

Slowly I was able to bring myself emotionally in line with the truth. All of us can 'save' ourselves. We don't have to stay in the prison of our past hurts. We do have some power here. It's tough and it takes time but sometimes we just have to push hard and be determined to go past our comfort level.

What's the worst that can happen? An emotional feeling of pain is what we fear so often. My T has explained to me that we will always be subject to feelings of pain and that's o.k. We are human and the whole array of emotions is what makes our lives rich and meaningful. It's only when we identify too heavily with that pain that we get too overwhelmed. Stepping back and observing it is the first step.

Granite - try not to make ultimatums for yourself such as "I will never ask a question again." I did that once and I was determined to stick with it at any cost. There was no way I was going to let myself be vulnerable again, I told myself. I would never ever let T hurt me again like that, I said to myself.

But, it wasn't T hurting me, it was my own subjective interpretation. So, I understand, I do.

thanks sky this is so much to take in and so helpfull.i guess i am kind of doing this when i say i'm never going to ask questions again.but i think some of that comes from the fear that i dont think T wants me to ask her any questions that it frustrates her and gets her angry.i am going to try to continue talking to her as much as i am able so maybe this all wont hurt so much.but at the same time i have so much going on i am just trying to hold it all together for now

[granite1]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

There are some questions my T wouldn't answer even when I did answer all of hers. eg:

Me: What brought you to therapy?
T: I'm not going to tell you!

(Try that on your T!)

But anyway, it's silly to expect us patients to be able to answer every question. If we had all the answers we wouldn't be in therapy, would we?

T: (Searching question)
Me: (Long pause) I really don't have any answer to that right now.
T: OK.

And sometimes my T says, "You think you know all the answers, don't you!"

i cant believe your T said this to you