[Chopin99]

After reading some of your opinions and doing a good bit of thinking of my own (that's kept me up half the night), I've decided to cut the crap and go ahead and say to T what I really want to say:

T, do you know how hard it was for me to open up to you last week? *Do you really know? *The rejoicing that I finally did it is over; now the trepidation is setting in. *I gave you part of my heart; not in the way of a lover or a friend, it's different. *I see you as a mother figure, but it's different from that also. *I allowed myself to be vulnerable to you with my heart laid bare like it hasn't been in years by telling you what you really mean to me. *I can only compare it to standing naked in a cold rain. *I'm cold, I'm afraid, I'm embarrassed, I'm unprotected, I'm alone. *I am eventually going to tell you things I've never told anyone before. *My heart is open and others have seen glimpses of it and it has been positive overall, but I know I'm only standing at the beginning. *I'm trying so hard, I'm trying to trust you and God but it is so difficult for me sometimes. *I know God wants me to do this, He wants me to heal, He wants me to open up to you, yet I struggle. *I want to run away. *I want to shut down. *I want to rebuild my walls. *But I don't want to let Him down; I don't want to let myself down. *I gave you my heart...please don't break it. *You are never far from my thoughts and you're always in my prayers. *I love you so much T. *There are times when I hug you that I don't want to let go and I wish you could just hold me like a mother would and comfort me because my mom couldn't do that for me, but I always let go because I don't want to think I'm a freak or weird or attracted to you sexually. When you sat with me on the couch when Doodle died, I wanted to just lean over and put my head on your shoulder or grab your hand and hold it, but I was afraid you'd reject me. *Do I ever affect you like I told you about my client in my email? *Do you ever think of me outside of these four walls? *I guess what I want to know is: have I managed to get into your heart? *Do you see me as a person, not just a client?

[Chopin99]

And I have no freaking clue what the deal is with the stars between each sentence. I started it as an email then cut and pasted it. Just noticed it now.

[unaluna]

I have to ask - what is T's marital status?

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

I have to ask - what is T's marital status?

She's married and has a grown daughter. Why do you ask?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Why do you ask?

umm prolly because i'm an idiot! tension?

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

umm prolly because i'm an idiot! tension?

Really? I thought you were going to suggest some kind of erotic transference or countertransference. Trust me, even though I'm bi, there is none on my part. She's in her mid-50's which is a bit out of my age range. I can't speak for her, but I know she's straight as a stick.

I would like her to be my mommy though. I laugh, but it's true.

[roads]

FWIW, I'm glad you're able to cut the pretense & bring the actual issues to the surface. It's scary & astounding--
This is brave therapy work. You know we're with you.

Roadrunner

[notz]

what Roadrunner said...

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by roadrunnerbeepbeep

FWIW, I'm glad you're able to cut the pretense & bring the actual issues to the surface. It's scary & astounding--
This is brave therapy work. You know we're with you.

Roadrunner

Originally Posted by notz

what Roadrunner said...

Thanks RR and notz.

I realized in the dark of night, I just needed to spit it out. In the light of day, I've actually rewritten it, shortened it a bit, and made my sentences more coherent.

After reading many posts by others and thinking of my previous T's, I'm starting to think I have an unusual T. What I am sensing (but I know my "sensor" is faulty...maybe just wishful thinking) is that I mean a lot to T and she has to work hard at being professional. In October, I made her a breast cancer awareness bracelet and she seemed completely disarmed. The next session, she told me she loved me. When she was out having chemo in early November, I was emailing multiple times a day (truly in crisis) and she was responding to them all, trying to help me. A line she wrote in one of the emails was "Don't you realize people care about you even when they are dealing with their own stuff?" In typical Chopin fashion, I pushed it too far and she finally had to cut me off. She was really sweet in my last session, but the session before that, she was almost irritable with me and trying to push me to open up. Every so often, she'd just sit there with her head in her hand and grin wistfully at me. I finally looked at her and said, "What? What do you want from me?" Exasperated, she looked at me and said, "I want you to start. I want you to open up!"

Just the fact that I seem to "get to her" positively and negatively would suggest deep feelings, either real or transference. So I'm just going to ask for the truth!

What do y'all think?

Originally Posted by Chopin99

What do y'all think?

I think that you have a sense of yourself as an influential person, someone who has a positive influence on the people around you. From the way that you talk about your H and your clients, at least I feel that.

So I see your workings-on in this thread as an outgrowth of that. I think you already know the answer, that you influence your T as well. Maybe then the question is what does it mean to you to know that you have such a positive influence on everyone around you?

Anne

[unaluna]

You HAVE her attention, if that's what you mean by "getting to her". What does that mean to you in terms of your childhood? This is about YOUR feelings, not T's. Why are you "baiting" her? I think that's what Anne is saying - yes, you have an influence. Why do you feel you don't? I recognize this - your clients love you, your friends love, your T loves you - but love at home was conditional on your being smart? This is a hot topic for me, because my whole identity for years was wrapped up in being an 'A' student, then it just became a sick stupid joke in the family, the whole reality of it, of me, was denied. I'm still lost.

So I see a lot of the same hyperness in you that's in me, no offense! I love me! Too much, some people here might say! Hey, it's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it. It wasn't getting done at home. I remember telling one T about being surprised that a store clerk reecognized me - that's how invisible I felt.

What is your T's prognosis? You don't have to answer here, but do you talk about it, and have you made plans for if the worst happens, or if she becomes temporarily unable to work? I AM concerned that I don't know more about this, ie just that you might be in denial about it? Did I not read something you posted, or do you feel pretty secure at this point about her health? Is this what she is waiting for you to ask about? Her becoming unavailable would repeat your mother's unavailability - then what?

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

I think that you have a sense of yourself as an influential person, someone who has a positive influence on the people around you. From the way that you talk about your H and your clients, at least I feel that.

So I see your workings-on in this thread as an outgrowth of that. I think you already know the answer, that you influence your T as well. Maybe then the question is what does it mean to you to know that you have such a positive influence on everyone around you?

Anne

I think this is pretty profound, Anne. I know I do have a positive influence on most of the individuals I choose to; but there have been a few astoundingly negative reactions/rejections that affect me to this day. I am simply afraid that T will reject me. I was just sitting doing my CBT homework and realize I have a real problem with jumping to conclusions. Read my answer to hankster for more info.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

You HAVE her attention, if that's what you mean by "getting to her". What does that mean to you in terms of your childhood? This is about YOUR feelings, not T's. Why are you "baiting" her? I think that's what Anne is saying - yes, you have an influence. Why do you feel you don't? I recognize this - your clients love you, your friends love, your T loves you - but love at home was conditional on your being smart? This is a hot topic for me, because my whole identity for years was wrapped up in being an 'A' student, then it just became a sick stupid joke in the family, the whole reality of it, of me, was denied. I'm still lost.

So I see a lot of the same hyperness in you that's in me, no offense! I love me! Too much, some people here might say! Hey, it's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it. It wasn't getting done at home. I remember telling one T about being surprised that a store clerk reecognized me - that's how invisible I felt.

What is your T's prognosis? You don't have to answer here, but do you talk about it, and have you made plans for if the worst happens, or if she becomes temporarily unable to work? I AM concerned that I don't know more about this, ie just that you might be in denial about it? Did I not read something you posted, or do you feel pretty secure at this point about her health? Is this what she is waiting for you to ask about? Her becoming unavailable would repeat your mother's unavailability - then what?

Hyper...me? Never.

T's prognosis is actually good at this point. Cancer is gone, chemo is over, heart problems are still there, but she said not much can be done right now. She's pretty available.

Yes, my hubby, friends, T, and clients are positively influenced by me. I let different people inside in different ways, but I'm having a hard time with the all-consuming "let in" of T. Most other people I don't let in at all. Speaking of invisibility, my boss tells me I make myself invisible. He said most employees don't have an opinion about me one way or another because they don't know me. Why don't I realize I have a positive influence? Very low self-esteem. Yes, love hinged on performance. So I still try to work to get love. That's one reason I'm in therapy!

Why am I baiting T? Because sometimes I don't understand this relationship with this T. It's not completely one-sided. She has disclosed a LOT of information about herself, and while it has helped me open up, there's a bit of confusion on my part. She has asked me very specifically to pray for her several times in relation to several issues regarding her health. She asked me if I would fix the bracelet I made for her because she ripped a charm off of it. In fact, I emailed her this morning about the bracelet and to ask her to pray for me because I was nervous about a doctor's appointment this morning. T just replied to it in reference to the bracelet. If she cared, wouldn't she at least ask how the appointment went? Her boundaries seem a bit wonky at times. So that's why I want to know the truth.

[Chopin99]

In reference to the email above I'm see-sawing between two responses:

1. Actually replying to the email, "Do you give a rat's @ss about my appointment or do you just want the damn bracelet fixed?"

2. Not replying to the email and saying "f**k it" to myself.

This type of thing makes me want to say "f**k you" to her!

The whole thing makes me want to do this sometimes!!!

Chill, chill, chill. Sometimes when I'm answering an email, I simply overlook part of what I'm supposed to be responding to. It doesn't mean I don't care or anything like that. It's just an oversight, particularly if I'm responding in a bit of hurry. If you want to tell her about your appointment, email her with the details and ask for a reply if you want one, just in case.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

Chill, chill, chill. Sometimes when I'm answering an email, I simply overlook part of what I'm supposed to be responding to. It doesn't mean I don't care or anything like that. It's just an oversight, particularly if I'm responding in a bit of hurry. If you want to tell her about your appointment, email her with the details and ask for a reply if you want one, just in case.

I was actually doing my CBT about the cognitive distortions about this situation and when it asked, "Identify any distortions in your thinking?"

My answer: "all of them"

If I sent an email about the appointment, by the time she replied (if she replied, most of the time she doesn't now), I'll be in session tomorrow!

[unaluna]

Rule #1, don't read too much into emails, into what's there or not there. We're not children playing "does he like me?". So - what "truth"? Are you having a "real" relationship, is that the question? We kick that one around a lot on here! Can she be your friend AND your T? And do her job? My T says he can't, and since he's already my T, ixnay on being my oyfriendbay.

Why do we all want to become part of our T's families? Why not our dermatologists? Or our podiatrists? Or somewhere in between...

p.s. good! hold onto that anger and hostility and bring it into your next session! even if you have to read it from this thread to remember it or access it or even be able to talk about it.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

Rule #1, don't read too much into emails, into what's there or not there. We're not children playing "does he like me?". So - what "truth"? Are you having a "real" relationship, is that the question? We kick that one around a lot on here! Can she be your friend AND your T? And do her job? My T says he can't, and since he's already my T, ixnay on being my oyfriendbay.

Why do we all want to become part of our T's families? Why not our dermatologists? Or our podiatrists? Or somewhere in between...

p.s. good! hold onto that anger and hostility and bring it into your next session! even if you have to read it from this thread to do it.

Sorry...felt the need to blow off some steam.

I just think she has tried to tread that thin line of "friend-ish" a couple of times what with all the talk of being "colleagues" and personal requests on her part. Of course I like that, then she pulls back. I need consistency! Her personality doesn't seem to be very consistent. She seems easily influenced by whims. So I guess I know what I'm gonna ask for tomorrow!

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I know I do have a positive influence on most of the individuals I choose to; but there have been a few astoundingly negative reactions/rejections that affect me to this day. I am simply afraid that T will reject me.

But of course. All of us have rejections or negative reactions from others. Doesn't change the basic fact that we have positive influence on people, for the most part. And it probably doesn't change the basic fact that for those of us with certain histories, the fear of a negative reaction or a rejection is omnipresent, despite many years of a sense of positive influence on many more people than the past negatives. What are the cliches that people say about this-- waiting for the other shoe to drop, etc?

My T referred to me last week as "successful" and "powerful". I couldn't even tell you in what context he said those things, as I was too freaked out by the words to pay attention to anything else.

I do have a sense of myself as being influential-- I meet young people who are interested in my field-- and they want to be like me. The young lawyers I mentor talk about me to other people in very favorable ways. I have and continue to participate in varied sorts of social and community groups and events and I see how people listen to me when I talk, and even seem to want to be around me. I have had my share of negative rejections, difficult relationships, and negative rumor-mongering, though.

But being influential makes me afraid, too. Afraid that I can use my powers for evil rather than good (grinning when I say this, but completely serious). Afraid of the responsibility for misguiding people or unintentionally hurting people. Just afraid that unspecified bad things might follow my ability to influence people.

And at some level this is really silly. Being good at my job requires me to be influential. I truly do enjoy seeing one of my mentorees go from being scared and critical about herself to being confident and secure. Being influential is part of how I feel connected to other people, especially when I see how my own openness and mindfulness increases my influentialness.

I suppose that allowing yourself to see your influence over others also heightens the experience of feeling rejected. With my T, I can't really imagine him rejecting me-- as in, it seems like he is paid not to reject me. To influence him seems like duh, of course, that's just a by-product of good therapy or a put-together person who realizes that he can learn something from everybody. It's really the people outside T that I fear rejection from.
Just musing,
Anne

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

In fact, I emailed her this morning about the bracelet and to ask her to pray for me because I was nervous about a doctor's appointment this morning. T just replied to it in reference to the bracelet. If she cared, wouldn't she at least ask how the appointment went? Her boundaries seem a bit wonky at times. So that's why I want to know the truth.

Like me, you have a very definite expectation of what other people ought to do. And when they deviate from the script you've written for them,...

Well, think about how you generally react to that!

[roads]

Originally Posted by hankster

ixnay on being my oyfriendbay.

hankster, you've got style. The way you say things! In this case, cracked me up again.

Roadrunner

[roads]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

Chill, chill, chill.

I have to agree with farmergirl, Chopin99. Besides, with less than very best friends, many never ask about the results of a doctor visit, in case it turns out to be something you don't want to share. It's really considered proper etiquette to leave such things to you to bring up again.

So... Yes, over-reacting. Yes, jumping to conclusions. Yes, you're not perfect. Cool, neat, & nifty tho!

Roadrunner

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by roadrunnerbeepbeep

I have to agree with farmergirl, Chopin99. Besides, with less than very best friends, many never ask about the results of a doctor visit, in case it turns out to be something you don't want to share. It's really considered proper etiquette to leave such things to you to bring up again.

So... Yes, over-reacting. Yes, jumping to conclusions. Yes, you're not perfect. Cool, neat, & nifty tho!

Roadrunner

Perfect...oh hell naw!

I don't know about the best friends and proper etiquette thing...the first thing T asked me when I arrived for session last week was, "Well, did you pass the stone? Did they see it on the x-ray? Did you have to go back to the hospital? Are you still in pain? Does it burn when you pee?" So "normal rules" don't apply here. Sometimes T is open mouth, insert foot. She means well though. I never really doubt her heart. When I doubt, it's my problem, not hers. I've just been in a foul mood today because I woke up at 2:30 am and couldn't go back to sleep. Went out to dinner with friends and that calmed me down a lot!

You're pretty cool yourself, Roadrunner! Thanks for keeping me straight!

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by roadrunnerbeepbeep

In this case, cracked me up again.

Oh roadrunner, you beepbeep the sweetest things! (gotta admit, i cracked myself up on that one - but it just seemed like the right thing to say at the moment, ya know?)

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Like me, you have a very definite expectation of what other people ought to do. And when they deviate from the script you've written for them,...

Well, think about how you generally react to that!

Interesting you talk about scripts. I consciously know I have certain scripts with my clients. I think of one in particular. He's autistic, schizophrenic, borderline MR. He used to have a "maladaptive" behavior of "pillow arming" people (this involved squeezing a person's upper arm while saying *person's name* pillow arms). Bizarre I know, but the correct med/behavior plan combo extinguished the behavior.

We have this script: He'll ask, "Why did I used to "Chopin *maiden name*?" I always say, "I don't know *Client*, you'll have to tell me because I can't read your mind." He'll say, "I don't know why I used to "Chopin *maiden name*. But I don't "Chopin *married name* anymore. I show you respect."

A couple of months ago, he disarmed me when I asked him to tell me why, he changed the script by saying, "I suppose I did it because I like you." I about fell out, but in a good way.

When the script changes in a negative way, I don't like it at all!