Therapeutic Love

I'd take any communication from him with the word "love" in it!
Doesn't matter what kind

I understand this because I have some issues in this area too. I've not only never asked my T if he loved me, I never even asked him if he liked me. There is some sort of burden or expectation associated with this that I haven't explored yet. So I think this whole area is dangerous ground for T's because all of our needs are so different. I can see where a good T would proceed cautiously in this area.

And I think it's wonderful that some posters have gotten into secure-enough relationships with their T's that this is discussed openly and real feelings can be expressed and shared. I'm sure that feelings deepen over time as in any relationship, and that there can be genuine caring on both sides. At least, I hope I can get to that place someday .....

Thank you so much- for your whole post but especially for this part. My experience is the same- that T is parenting me and I am letting go of the hope that I will be parented. I had wondered whether I had got this wrong- had somehow misunderstood my own experience- so it is good to hear I'm not alone.

My T says either 'I feel a lot of love for you' or 'I feel very loving towards you'. Very occasionally I used to push for the exact three words. But I know I have the three words, just in a way which feels ok for her. I don't need to push anymore- I just know.

What you said was downright poetic, Chopin.

Thanks Granite...lightbulb moment for me. THIS is what made me run. wow.
crap. crap. crap. This is exactly what happened. He told me he liked me. Then he initiated a few calls, kind of a safety check, but I didn't like him calling me. I freaked, felt claustrophobic, and bailed. classic I guess.

This is one of the few areas where the one I see does not screw up. She has only contacted me for appointment changes. Just last week she said she had "excellent boundaries and will not show up on your doorstep." I had a sense of panic because I had never thought she would show up on my doorstep and the idea, even in the negative, was (and obviously still is since it is about the only thing she said that I remember) unsettling.
I (and I know I am not in the majority here) like it that I do not have to concern myself that it is the therapist when the phone rings (although I have specific ring tone for her and she only has one of my numbers etc), that when I leave the woman's office - I am done with her and she with me - unless I go back.
So all of that was to say I understand and believe the client should be able to expect the therapist will not breach boundaries either.

Now that you have figured that out, Wikid, do you think you'll contact him to talk through this? Good job, by the way, allowing yourself to see that!

My T told me yesterday that he sees me as a person who exists outside of sessions and he thinks of me between sessions. He prefaced this by saying "you may not like this, but..."

It made me think of you, Stopdog.

I was thinking it was kinda insulting to see my T as a lovable puppy, but he LOVES his dogs and uses them as therapy dogs, so I think he might see himself as a therapy pup and that's where I get it from. he says dogs are better than people - it's a Tommy LaSorda quote.

yea. I think I may have given him just cause though.
thnx. Not going to call him this week. Need a bit more space.

END HIJACK (sorry!)

delicatefade - the love of a father for a son, of a child for its mother, of a friend for a friend - any relationship you can name - these kinds of love are all different from each other

and this therapy relationship is still different (wayyyyyyyy different!) from any of those; why should there not be a kind of love unique to it?

Ha. I know some of them say that. The one I see may have said something like that to me to - I know she has said she has thought about me. But what I meant was they may not come after you. All obligation is ended. I do not owe it to the therapist to go back if I choose not to do so and they are not to hunt the client. They can think about the client if they choose, but they may not come after the client.

i do not know the meaning of love please explain

Yeah, this is a huge problem for me. I'm aware of it and it's on the list of to-do's for therapy, but we haven't gotten to it yet.

Here's what I've figured out so far: If someone loves me, then they have expectations of me, and I won't be able to live up to them - I'll fail, and disappoint them. Love is a burden, because it means that I'm responsible for someone else's happiness and it's too much, I can't do it, I'll fail. (this comes from my mom) Although I'm desperate for T to "love" me, when he shows any sign that he has positive feelings about me, I run away screaming. (Can you spell R U P T U R E?)

Hell, I'm going to be in therapy forever. Sigh.

Hi,
Such an interesting discussion!
I think that everyone, both therapist and client, have all sorts of different boundaries around how close the therapy relationship should be in terms of how each expresses caring and that's just fine!
I personally value this type of connection, (I call it love, but I'm sure it can have whatever name you want) so much. I'm so relieved when I can safely express the strength of the love I feel for the therapists I've worked with, and yes this develops over time.
I don't think I'd feel comfortable with someone who would back away from me or say that they'd never say they love me back. I believe if the connection is right, both people are really in it together sharing themselves and who they each are in ways as the therapy develops, and can both come to really care about one another in a very personal way, while still respecting that this is a profesional relationship.
I feel this way about my voice movement therapist. We've worked through many issues both within our relationship and around my understanding the very unique creative work that she does. She's been incredibly consistent and deeply caring no matter what. She's gone out of her way to gain my trust and really get to get to know me and the very best way to relate to me. I don't have any question about how much she cares about me. She knows how much I care about her too, and says she's deeply touched.

Of course! They teach cute and shaggy there.

and cheerleading!

Your T has some strange ideas.

I agree with Can't Explain! Your T has some very unusual ideas. I'm genuinely glad that your T's ideas and approach work for you, but I have to say, if my had that kind of philosophy about love I think I'd be shopping for a new T. If love is a "choice" then it would follow that we can "choose" who we love romantically... which we can't. It sounds like all of the anti-gay arguments I've heard over the years: "Hey Scorpio, just CHOOSE to be straight." It's also a little depressing to hear someone say they think that feelings will inevitably fade over time and that love is really about commitment. I guess, in my view, what is beautiful about love is that it is the strongest emotion we're capable of feeling, it follows no rhyme or reason, there's something unpredictable and mysterious about it, and that we give and receive it freely. You can't buy love or demand love or force love; it just is (or isn't). I dont think you can consciously "choose" to act out love. Either your actions are motivated by love or they arent. Either you feel love or you dont. For me, love is a "heart" emotion, not a "head" emotion (this coming from a PhD!). I think when you operate from a place of love, there's no need to consciously do A or B; you do it naturally, without having to think about it. It's only when love comes naturally that I think we can "feel" that love from someone else. And I don't think love inevitably fades nor do I think it can be reduced to a commitment or obligation. I've never fallen out of love-- platonically or romantically. If I truly loved someone once, then I still love them now. I may not be as close to them as I once was, but my love for them didn't just go away. And, in my view, If you do something out of love for someone else, then it doesn't feel like a commitment. You do it because you want to and it makes you feel good to do it. For me, a commitment is something tedious that weighs us down-- something we do out of obligation rather than desire. I see that as quite contrary to doing something out of love. But, of course, these are only my views. And I guess it makes me recognize how important it is to me that I have a T whose views are similar to mine in this respect. I'm also glad that Ts are as diverse as we are, so we can each find a T who works for us!

I actually completely understand what Chopin's T is saying about the choice and commitment of love. She is not talking about it being tedious or weighing us down. She's talking about more of a promise and deep dedication to someone. I come from a deeply bonded and supportive family, not just immediate family, but extended family as well. That kind of love is not just about feeling. It is about a dedication to others. It is about following through and living the love we have for each other. We have chosen to not just "feel" our love, but out of that love to choose willingly and consciously to behave in ways that are demonstrative of our loving dedication and commitment to each other. That is not a chore or tedious. I would say it is an obligation, but why is that a bad thing? I am absolutely obligated to my husband and my children and my parents because I love them. I consider that an honor. I don't see that as "reducing" love, but rather, elevating it to a kind of sacred trust. Like you said, this is a matter of philosophical differences or viewpoints. We all look at things from different perspectives based on our own backgrounds.

Thank you for explaining that so well, Chris. Love is so much more than feelings. My T's commitment and dedication over the past 11 years taught me how to give and receive love from others. If he had relied on his feelings in our relationship, he would have given up on me long ago, because I was very difficult and challenging at times and he certainly did not always feel very loving toward me! But because of his commitment, and his refusal to give up on me even when I fully expected him to, I have grown tremendously and our therapy relationship is solid and I know he cares as much for me as I care for him. And finally, for the first time in my life I have wonderful, caring friends and a safe, loving relationship with a new partner now -- a man who also understands that love is so much more than feelings. Although my kids gave and continue to give me great joy, they are all young adults now, and I was lacking the reciprocal love and joy of close friendships and especially the love of a partner. But now, because of my T's dedication and commitment, I am experiencing both, and I am truly happy for the first time in my life.

I think real love is both a heart and head emotion. My heart told me that I felt immediate attraction and what I thought was "love" for my ex husband many years ago but if I had known myself well enough at the time to also pay attention to my head, I would not have ended up being controlled and abused by him for so long.
And my new guy is not someone I felt immediately attracted to or infatuated with when he first asked me out several months ago. I took the risk to go out with him at the time mostly because we were going to a work related event and my T had been encouraging me to get more involved with other people there (I am a volunteer; partner is an employee.) I guess I could say that I kind of liked him at the time but only as an acquaintance, and I had no plan or even any idea that our relationship would flourish into love. But that's what happened as we got to know each other. We began spending more time together just talking or doing something we both enjoyed, and our relationship grew. And now, several months later, I also feel very attracted to him sexually, but the sexual attraction came only after I knew him well enough to feel safe and cared for. I think we both made and continue to make conscious choices to act out love, and those conscious choices deepen and strengthen our relationship. We are in love with each other because we chose to get to know one another on an intimate and vulnerable level, not because we immediately felt intensely attracted to each other.

Chris, thank you for explaining so eloquently exactly what my T means in her definition of love. Being in a long term relationship and having several long-term friendships, true love requires work and sacrifice. To address Scorpio, who we choose to love and associate with in life (outside of FOO) is often based on feelings, whether it be romantic or affectionate. Then we choose to make a commitment to that person.

In my job as a mental health provider and in my T's role as a therapist, we choose to "love" people from the time we meet them and act that love out. I have found in choosing to love and act out that choice of love to individuals, the feelings naturally follow. I love my clients dearly, even the ones who are difficult to work with.

Yes. And yet they are also all the same.

Sorry to intrude but this site is making me morecrazy then I was an hour ago. How do I get to a section where I can chat live wioth other human beinmgs?????????AGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH