[SpiritRunner]

When I got there, she was coming out to her car because she thought maybe she had left her keys in there or something, so we walked back in together and she goes, I'd give you a hug if it weren't against the rules ... so I said, and I'd give you a hug if it weren't against your rules, too! Anyway, actually getting a hug wasn't the thing that was so hugely important to me, but that she said that mean a lot to me, meant that she was happy to see me and that there was some small thought of care/fondness in her heart/mind toward me.

She gave me an hour and 20 minutes ... and apparently, she doesn't plan on charging me for it either - I thought about asking at the first, but then it felt awkward, so I said nothing and figured she was the professional and could make whichever choice she wanted regarding that!
And I said at the end, so where do we go from here ... do I just not call you anymore? But she said, oh no, let me know how you're doing. I want to know how things go for you .....

We had a very interesting, varied, thought-provoking, honest, intellectually stimulating conversation. Like I've said before, intellectually she rocks ... kind of on the same spiritual/philosophical wavelength. And since that sort of stuff gets all tied up in my issues/personality/emotional life, it's all relevant, I guess - though sometimes I have felt like I'm talking to a professor/mentor rather than a T .... talking to someone who views me as an equal, as her intellectual/spiritual equal. That has been something that has helped me tremendously with some of my negative core beliefs about myself though - that someone of T's caliber would see me that way, as skilled, wise, able, a strong person with a strong personality .... very validating and nurturing.

We talked a lot about my H and his behavior and words and emotional patterns. She said, he may or may not be an a-hole .... sometimes he acts like one! She said that he may have valid points/concerns but he packages them in a very unsavory way, because he doesn't seem to know better - she said, it really is pretty simple, the way he could present it differently, in a more appropriate, healthy way, and that surely he could learn to do it! She also said his behavior does make sense to her (in that she gets where it comes from and why - as do I ... it's primarily insecurity, jealousy, which gets presented in a manipulative, controlling, demanding, accusatory way) but she wished very much he wouldn't do/say those things.

I don't think she sees it as I am being abused per se (and I know this won't go over well with a lot of you ... and rest assured, I DO see that point/concern, and shared that with her ....) But she did say, do not let yourself be/put yourself under his domination. You are his equal! She used her hands as a demonstration - putting the two at an even level, saying this is how I should try to keep it, and not like this, with one hand under the other. - That I can accept that he has strong feelings about some things and respect that, but not compromise myself emotionally .... maintain my emotional equilibrium by also not being reactive to him in situations like that, but responsive. She was happy/proud that I have been able to re-direct myself when I find myself simply reacting or falling into the old 'I am bad, shameful, of low character' self-condemning mindset .... and sorry that the way H acts makes it so dang challenging to keep from falling into the old pattern.

She advised that we had better go back to our marriage counselor so that she could help H see his patterns clearer and get a better idea of how to use coping skills ... that he has some poor ones, and some basically good ideas of coping skills which he implements poorly.

We talked a lot about my faith/spirituality evolution too - something that H is also not pleased with, as he sees me moving away from what he thought I was spiritually, and away from some of the doctrinal teachings/interpretations/expectations of my (nondenominational) church faith. He thinks I am losing faith, I think I am growing in faith, because I am seeing things in a more expansive, open light and I feel like it has enhanced my spiritual understanding rather leaving it where it (and I) felt limited.
I won't go into details, but that was my favorite part of the conversation, because we got really deep.

I also got to see my former social worker today too, who did give me a hug and said the next time we are in town to give her a call and we'll go out for coffee or something. So .... I have made a friend from the time I spent here getting over my 'crazy time'. Actually, I feel like I made really good, healing connections here in my hometown, connections I needed to help me re-connect to life, to a better life, to a new emotional life, to a more real life and a more authentic ME. So I am thankful ... and thankful those are enduring, real connections, even the one with T .... because even though the boundaries are drawn so that she will not be a friend, she is still a phone call away, within reach, but also within reach inside of me, too.

[WikidPissah]

Good stuff SpiritRunner!

[bluemountains]

I enjoyed reading your post, SpiritRunner. It sounds like you had a very insightful, productive session. I am so glad that your t spent the extra time with you, and allowed you time for closure.
Just curious, why is there a no hug policy? I don't hug my t, nor would I feel comfortable doing so, but it seems that lots of folks here at pc do hug their t's.
Bluemountains

[stopdog]

I am glad it went well.

[WePow]

What a powerful session. It is very difficult on those around us when we are growing and expanding our wings. In ways, they may have fear. They see us change and think that either we want them to change or that they need to change because something is wrong that they don't see. When people have that type of fear, they display anger sometimes towards those who are changing.

You have to keep doing what is right for you and growing. But you already know that. :-)

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by WePow

What a powerful session. It is very difficult on those around us when we are growing and expanding our wings. In ways, they may have fear. They see us change and think that either we want them to change or that they need to change because something is wrong that they don't see. When people have that type of fear, they display anger sometimes towards those who are changing.

You have to keep doing what is right for you and growing. But you already know that. :-)

that is so right, WePow. there is a lot of anger/fear behind some of his words/actions ... and I think it wouldn't be there so much if he had no love for me. but it also wouldn't be there if he felt secure enough in himself that he wasn't threatened by me being myself, or if he didn't have such doubts/insecurity perhaps about being loved/liked/needed himself. so I get why he's feeling/acting as he in some ways, but I also wish he could change along with me and be truly happy for and with me, so we could be happier together. sigh.
but like T said, I can still be ME and I can hold on to that; I can hold on to the good change in me and control my response to him, even if I cannot control his reactions/responses.

[WePow]

You are right on the money!

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by bluemountains

I enjoyed reading your post, SpiritRunner. It sounds like you had a very insightful, productive session. I am so glad that your t spent the extra time with you, and allowed you time for closure.
Just curious, why is there a no hug policy? I don't hug my t, nor would I feel comfortable doing so, but it seems that lots of folks here at pc do hug their t's.
Bluemountains

well,at the mental health agency where I saw her before, there is really a no-hug policy. but the no-touch is her boundary choice, because she feels it just avoids potential confusion and keeps ethical boundaries more firmly in place. I never really wanted to hug her, except now I was feeling like I wanted to, just because I feel a fond respect and appreciation for her. I think it's mutual or she wouldn't have said what she said ... but as she said, when I chose this profession, I chose to follow the ethical guidelines ...

[SpiritRunner]

Forgot a couple things I really appreciated:
one - that she said she trusted me that I was setting appropriate guidelines for using PC and that I was regulating myself; she trusted my word on that and she trusted me.
two - when I was talking about how my self-talk can go to, well yeah, I'm not perfect, I made a mistake, I did sort of lie there, so yeah, I deserved those harsh words because I am bad after all, etc, she said, how about 'I'm imperfect, but deserve to be treated with respect!'

ha, 3 posts in a row on my own thread - sheesh!

[SpiritRunner]

well, cat is out of the bag, I guess ...... H has found me here again and read my posts. sigh. I sort of feel like a safe place to process some things so I wasn't running around in emotional mind but could gain perspective first (before talking it over with him) got violated.
I can't blame him for being pissed about being named as an a-hole online - my feelings would be hurt too! But I wouldn't stick my finger in the bees nest in the first place and read his stuff if he posted on some forum like this, either!
So, I will keep posting on other people's threads, but am going to be much more careful about threads I start, what I post in them about who!

[granite1]

i'm sorry that you have no privacy in this matter spirit

[stopdog]

I am sorry he is so intrusive. Are you afraid of him?

[skysblue]

What - is he your father, your jailer? You have a right to your own life, to your own privacy.

[Snuffleupagus]

My partner knows I'm on here reading a lot. She's made a couple kidding comments about it, but that's it. She spends her time the way she chooses and so do I. We're both adults and get to make those choices for ourselves.

But we both also feel free to ask for attention from each other if we feel like we need it--with the understanding that the other person gets to say no.

Also my partner would no more read my posts on here w/o my permission than she would read my journal which I also occasionally choose to share with her. Just like I don't read her journal.

It sounds like your husband wants more attention but doesn’t know how to ask for it, so instead he attacks what he believes is taking you away. Attacking is more comfortable than being vulnerable and asking for what we need.

I am really glad you were able to process this stuff with T2.

[SpiritRunner]

Stopdog - no, I'm not afraid of him; there are many times when he does thoughtful and kind or loving things, too. Sometimes I feel nervous or vulnerable though or not altogether comfortable. Makes me feel like a child back at home and I don't find it pleasant to end up feeling sneaky or furtive. I don't think I've done anything that is shameful/sinful or to be ashamed of and yet I get stuck with that feeling .... induces defensiveness, probably defiance. Yuk.

He feels I have gotten obsessive here. T2 didn't think so, but then H thought perhaps I wasn't honest with her. She thought I was as honest with her as I was with myself and that I was willing to see even harsher truths about myself and deal with them .... said she thought I had good enough judgment to determine if I was being obsessive. He just isn't sure.
Can't blame him. Some days I have posted a lot. Some days I haven't. Some days there are threads/questions that intrigue me a lot and make me think a lot. Some days I feel that I really can help a certain person with a situation I really relate to. Some days I don't. I think I have a healthy balance (I used to not where PC was concerned), but recognize it's possible for it to seem that I don't, looking at only a part of the picture. T2 said balance is a matter of perception, as is the question of obsession/or not obsession.

I will try harder and more sincerely to avoid the appearance of obsession!

[Snuffleupagus]

There are far worse and much more harmful obsessions. Perhaps I give myself more slack in that regard having been a very active drug addict. Once you have an obsession that harmful, the others seem like molehills.

[SpiritRunner]

I agree, Snuffy. I have had worse obsessions too .... like eating disorder/overexercise issues, where I literally could not eat starchy stuff like bread without feeling ill, like I'd get fat (even though I was skinny as a rail, about 100 lbs) and could not go a day, except Sunday, without running!
I know the difference between obsession and avid interest, between out of control compulsion and a simpler compelling interest/desire .... I know when I'm crossing the line into immoderation.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by SpiritRunner

I know the difference between obsession and avid interest, between out of control compulsion and a simpler compelling interest/desire .... I know when I'm crossing the line into immoderation.

Yeah, does H even KNOW the word
"immoderation"? It's beautiful! If H could experience some compelling desire, this compulsion for control might dissipate on its own...

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Originally Posted by SpiritRunner

there is a lot of anger/fear behind some of his words/actions ... and I think it wouldn't be there so much if he had no love for me.

Oh dear, SpiritRunner, my heart goes out to you. Love does not have, as its source, anger and fear. I am not saying he doesn't love you, I am just saying that your interpretation of his lousy behavior as being evidence of his deep love for you, is a little messed up.

I don't doubt that he loves you deeply. But you let him off the hook when you excuse his intrusive, controlling behavior as the product of that love. He can both love you and be attempting to control you, to stop you from getting the support that you need, to express what you need to express, to change in the way that you need to.

I just don't think that husbands controlling wives makes for a healthy marriage for either person. I grew up in a family like this and it has taken me years and years and years to undo my desire to control my spouse and children. I'm still not perfect at it. But I've realized that they can't really flourish under my control, it is like a straightjacket.

[SpiritRunner]

Thank you, LMTL, for your honest, sensitive, thoughtful answer. You're right, controlling behavior does not make for a healthy marriage - and I confess to having my own version of control issues.
You're right too, that love does not have as its source fear/anger. But then, too, fear and anger are also powerful emotions that can be equated with love ... sometimes like opposite sides of the coin, as it were.
I don't mean to excuse inappropriate behavior or anything, but I also do want to try to have a compassionate understanding (something that my T and I did discuss too - having a respect for his feelings and a compassionate awareness of faults/behaviors but also not just rationalizing them or excusing things) .... because having bitterness, anger, fear, or having defiant reactions isn't going to induce anything good in my spirit or any good changes in his, either .... or make the marriage any healthier.
I keep trying to find the balance in all this .... and it is challenging.

I was trying to not post, SR, because you KNOW how I feel about this situation already, but GEEZ! I cannot believe how intrusive your husband is and controlling and . . . YOU didn't call him an A-HOLE. WE called him an A-HOLE because he IS and we would love it if you could see that and demand that he treat you with the respect that you deserve and respect your boundaries. You are not HIM and he does NOT get to dictate your behavior.

Ugh. Have to stop. Sorry. SO so sososososososo ticked off on your behalf.

[skysblue]

My H used to be much more controlling. The bottom line is that i ALLOWED him to be controlling by not being clear what I wanted, by not setting my own boundaries and more importantly I had a fear of 'getting into trouble', someone being mad at me.

With therapy and with life's hard lessons, I now am much more clear about what I want, what my own values are, what I need - and I can stand up for myself in a clear and non-defensive way without anger or resentment anymore.

I think I was able to be controlled easily because I also felt guilty - guilty that I didn't measure up, guilty that I had needs, guilty that I should presume to have wants different than his.

My T has taught me that not only is it ok to have needs but that it's o.k. to try to fulfill them. It's not like I override my husband's wishes so coldly or bluntly, I will listen to him with as much respect and love as possible but if I don't agree, he knows now that I will still maintain my boundaries. If it upsets him, then it is HIS problem, not MINE.

The key is for me to be clear in my own self. Then I can be calm and loving towards him. And I no longer fear his negative emotions (well,not as much). I have the right to live my life the way I choose. Sure, compromise will always be necessary when we associate with other people but I no longer automatically default to the other person's wishes.

Good luck. I know it's tough

[SpiritRunner]

thank you again, MKAC, for being so definite in your support and care for me. It really does touch my heart.

sky - I am working on the same things you write about. I think, with the help of T2, I came a long way toward learning more about my authentic self and how to BE authentic. I've grown and changed a lot and become more clear in my self-identity. I know myself, and accept myself, better. I do better with self-compassion and not taking criticism as condemnation .... or taking on that guilt/shame so much, but I do still struggle with it. I have learned a lot about boundaries, mine and others, and am more willing/able to enforce them. And even though I also have knowledge about how I should do that and how to communicate that, I too often fall into the defensive pattern still .... get reactive and then have to back out of that ....
T2 and I talked about compromise too .... but doing it in such a way that you don't compromise your identity, your authenticity, and start hiding yourself away, trying too hard to please/gain approval.
Yes, it is hard, sigh. Makes my head spin at times. But I always have been determined!
No, I don't want to be controlled, treated as a child; I know I deserve respect and fair treatment. H says he will try to be less domineering. I am willing to trust his word on that.

sorry we havent been following this entire post but if anyone is being mean to you we have a vast aresenal of us who would be willing to defend you♥♥♥

[SpiritRunner]

Originally Posted by TrinityDancer

sorry we havent been following this entire post but if anyone is being mean to you we have a vast aresenal of us who would be willing to defend you♥♥♥

thank you, trinity, that is very sweet of you all.