Update, continued...

Trigger warning for SI/sui.



So a couple weeks ago, I did a new T interview marathon. One new T each on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

I did like one of them a lot, but the problem is, she does not take my insurance, and she'd be kind of expensive. This is a whole separate issue that I need to figure out, and have been mulling over.

Then, I made a huge mistake.

I thought I would contact old T before making a final decision about one of the above three. I definitely, definitely should have waited.

I asked him via e-mail if there was anything -- A N Y T H I N G -- new that had come to mind for him in the past couple of weeks. I also asked if he would be interested in doing a consultation, since one of the new Ts I interviewed had offered to do that. I told him that if neither of those things were true, then we probably shouldn't meet again.

Of course, he said nothing was new. Of course. This infuriated me more than I expected. Heck if you gave me two weeks to think about Mickey Mouse I'd probably be able to come up with something new. But no. So I just flipped out. I was so angry. I told him I was regretting contacting him, and I should have left it there, but instead I sent an angry e-mail. I told him how his "misunderstanding" of so many things about me was total BS. And I said that I had really, really wanted to believe that all of that BS was attributable to something else, because if there was no explanation for it, then that just made him an incompetent therapist. I know, right? So harsh. I was so upset .

As for the consultation... he didn't really answer directly, just said that he had a colleague he could speak to who might be able to serve as a consult, but he'd be happy to consider the person I met. But I could not figure out from the way he worded it whether he was wanting to try this, or if he was just going along with it. So I did add in the e-mail that I wasn't sure why he didn't just say whether he actually wanted to do it or not.

We talked on the phone a bit and decided to meet for a little bit in person. Before we met, he sent me an e-mail warning me that he (1) thought that for now we should not meet regularly, since we would probably just continue to have the same problems, and (2) would regardless talk to this colleague about consultation. This seemed... weirdly insightful. Like it made me suspicious in how normal, helpful, and well-thought-out it sounded. It made me extremely sad, but it also just kind of surprised me. However, as the day went on, I felt more and more sad about how he said he'd always be eager to have me back and to work things out, and that this turned out to be not so true.

Our chat didn't do much other than make me feel worse. He was really sad and upset and I felt bad about flying off the handle at him. He also told me that the day I left, when I had noticed how hard he was crying, that he cries like that maybe once every 3 or 4 years . I guess that made me feel like at least I mattered in some way, but it didn't really undo the fact that he didn't want to talk to me, "for now". He kept saying we shouldn't meet "for now". I have no idea how long "for now" is. So, anyway, I felt a little betrayed. Just a little. I know he didn't totally go back on saying I could come back whenever I wanted, but he kind of did.

He asked if I was safe. At the time, I did not think I was a suicide risk, so I said that even though I had suicidal thoughts, I thought I was ok.

I had mentioned to him over the phone that I wasn't sure that consultation was something he actually wanted to do. I don't remember his answer, other than that it wasn't a real answer. But I also didn't ask a real question, so I asked him straight up, was this consultation something he *wanted* to try, or did he want me to just move on. Again, he said he thought it would be best for me to move on "for now", and he would try to get in touch with his colleague. OMG.

On my way home I felt awful. Totally abandoned. I felt like I truly had nobody and was so heartbroken. I wished that if he had not wanted to see me, that he had just said so before, and not first said, "Come back anytime," before saying, "Actually, don't." Everything just seems so ***-backwards.

I also felt really bad about getting so angry and upsetting him so much, and felt like I was just putting him through a lot of crap. I cried a lot. I cried a lot the next day, too... I stayed home from work early in the day because I was having other medical issues, and just cried and cried. And was getting really seriously suicidal.

I kept thinking about contacting him, hoping he'd at least talk me down if I told him I was unsafe, but I kept reminding myself that I wasn't supposed to contact him. I kept trying to think of all these different ways to get him to respond, but they were all silly and manipulative. It was also obvious how ironic it was that before, not contact him had made things better, but now that I had, things were so bad that I needed to talk to SOMEBODY and I really just had him.

So finally, I e-mailed him. I told him I felt unsafe, that I'd been thinking about contacting him but knew he'd probably turn me away. And for that reason, it really seemed like having hope or any kind of continued connection was really doing damage. That it was very hard for me to accept that a dire situation to me is no longer a dire situation to him, and that this is getting in the way of my accepting that.

I also mentioned that all of his indirect responses to the consultation thing were leading me to worry that he didn't want to do it, and I didn't want to make him. Just like nobody wants to drag their partner to couples therapy if they really aren't even interested in trying it. I felt bad that I just seemed to be making him unhappy. I had not had the intention, at all, of jerking him around, but it seemed like I was having that effect anyway and I just wanted everything to stop.

He responded with pretty much just the following:

No surprises on the suicide front.

It does seem like he's trying to just show me through his actions (for once!) that he is interested in consultation. I have to assume he must be, but it is so frustrating that he won't just say he wants to try it. I want to know that I am interpreting his actions correctly, and it just feels exhausting to have to try to get him to just confirm for me that he is doing this because he wants to. I think if this were someone else, I wouldn't be so bothered by it, but he is not usually the type to persist in doing something that he believes will be helpful despite whatever storm is going on around him. I'm that kind of person. He isn't -- he's typically very passive, with a few exceptions. Our other ruptures have also tended to be around him just sort of doing something without saying anything about it, and having that something alter our relationship in a way that makes me feel crazy because he won't talk about it. I really just want to know what's going on.

But, it kind of doesn't matter. I think I'd still be up for the consultation if he can make it work with his colleague -- provided he will just freaking confirm for me that he wants to do this. I don't want to bring up the idea of consulting with the T I met if the other guy falls through. It's too exhausting.

Some of these things I know I walked right into... contacting him before I had anyone else to go to in case it went really badly; flipping out via e-mail; wanting him to say, "Yes, I think consultation is worth trying." Another thing was that I mentioned to him that a lot of my extreme anxiety abated once I stopped seeing him, and he cited this as one of the reasons I should see him "for now", which feels a little manipulative in a way I have a hard time explaining. I feel so dumb .

I am less suicidal now... spent the weekend with H as much as possible to remind myself that ultimately, I want to live. But I'm really depressed. I don't know what to do about the T I can't afford; she has sliding scale but I feel self-conscious about paying her less. I know I need to keep trying to get a new T but now I'm so depressed I just don't feel like doing it.

Anyway. Just wanted to vent about it all.

((Sally))

Breaking up is hard to do, even when it is the best option.

Sally, can you keep looking for a T you might like who DOES take your insurance? I feel so badly for you! I can only imagine how you are feeling, but I know my anxiety and sadness at just the thought of this happening between me and my T gives me some clue to the despair that you are experiencing. I am so sorry.

Just because your T is making mistakes and not doing what it takes to repair them does not mean you are not worth the effort involved. I know you know that, but I also know that feeling of worthlessness. You are amazing and wonderful, and your T must have something going on inside him that is preventing him from engaging with you in the way that you need.

I am sorry to hear about your old therapist. That sounds quite rough. I do think it is possible to let the therapists handle their fees their own way - they do not offer to take less in fees unless they are willing to do so. If you think you could work with the one who offered a sliding scale, and you cannot afford her regular rate, then why not? I understand not doing it if you can pay her regular rate but just prefer not to, but if you cannot afford it, then take her up. Let the therapist handle their own finances is my opinion.

I agree...! You are amazing and wonderful!

It sounds to me like your T is having a lot of trouble dealing with the end of your relationship, too, so this whole thing has to be rough on both of you.

Do you have it in you to try another T interview marathon? I know how exhausting this process is, though - why can't all Ts just magically be a 'good fit' for us?!?

I want to tell you to just see the T you like with the sliding scale, but if you're anything like me, that fee could be an obstacle in the burgeoning relationship.

Your advice has been incredibly helpful to me in the past, so please keep sharing here!

You guys!!

Thanks so much, MKAC, I really need to hear that sometimes and now is definitely it. At the moment, the biggest things is feeling overwhelmed by how much this sucks and feeling like I can't deal with.

One thing I said to him was, "I have a hard time believing that all of a sudden, after so long, we just became incompatible." He said, "Well, that's my understanding so far... and I had taken it to be yours, too?" Which is just so... I don't know how he can consider that a satisfactory answer. I told him that no, I felt like something had changed, like when I broke my collarbone as a teenager and went to a specialist who walked in talking about my broken wrist. Wrong Xrays, buddy. I felt like T had been walking in with the wrong Xrays every day for weeks.

Then again, I know not everyone is on a rabid quest for the truth, but still. I truly don't get where he's coming from, because if this is hurting him so much, why is he just accepting it as fact? I know he's been talking to others about the situation, but seems to come up with nothing. It's kind of like... nothing is less believable than something outrageous, if that makes any sense. It's like one of those little indicators people pick up to detect suspicious behavior... like when the parents of missing kids just sort of say, "we can't think of anything that was different that day," you start to feel weird about it because most parents of missing kids would be going over that day with a fine tooth comb to think of anything at all. That's a weird example, sorry, I've been reading a crime blog recently

I really need to find a way to accept that just because I firmly believe there is something going on, that it takes two to tango and if he doesn't figure it out, there is nothing I can do.

About the insurance, yeah, I just sort of took a few names from my pdoc but didn't realize how annoying it would be to see someone on a sliding scale. It's kind of a shame in principle anyway because my current employer offers fantastic insurance and I do think I ought to try to take advantage of it.

There is one more name I have to try, who does take my insurance. Her office is VERY close to old T's (I live in a very liberal city that has therapists EVERYWHERE, freaking everywhere... once I was browsing for therapists nearby on my insurance website, and my old T turned up, but like 100 entries in... he was a 10 minute walk from my place). But I'll call her up when I have a little privacy.

Thank you again for your kind words

You're right. You're absolutely right. I have to try to remember not to make decisions for other people about what they can and can't do. If she says I can pay $50 less, then I can. Gotta remember not to freak out about this until I have actually spoken with her about what works.

Thank you wintergirl! I'm glad to be helpful. Right now PC is kind of keeping me sane, not sure why but that's what it does.

As for the "good fit" -- I know, right?? Sorry to hear about your recent bad fit. The description made me shudder. Just goes to show that many types of people need many types of therapist, I just wish there was some way to know who my "type" is.

I am actually glad in saner moments that I do like the one with the sliding scale. Even if it's expensive, depending on how I can calculate it with my insurance company, I can probably afford it if I don't find anyone else. It's good to know there is an option. It is tough, though... right now I'm trying to get the house and the kids and all of that going on, and those things cost a lot, especially where I live.

It's hard to know that this is rough on old T. It reminds me of a relationship I had in college that was really turbulent and on-again/off-again, because the guy was Jewish, and knew he wouldn't want to marry a non-Jew, but also knew that if we stayed together, he'd probably want to marry me (a non-Jew). So neither of us WANTED to break up. But we knew it was inevitable. So we kept getting back together, then breaking up... oh it was terrible.

Thanks for your post .

I'm feeling a little better because I just made some tentative plans with some "work friends". I've been at my job a few months and am trying to make the transition from "work friends" with a few that I think I would like to actually hang with, to "friends". Just the little things that make you feel connected to the rest of the world.

You said before that he is generally quite passive, right? I think that is the explanation. Do you remember me complaining about my husband? And that I confronted him about certain things he was doing and NOT doing that were driving us apart? When I told him that I mentally given him a time limit to get his act together, and if things were not better by May, I wanted him to move out, he cried and was upset, AND THEN HE PACKED. It was like he was just giving up and accepting that things were over and he wasn't even going to TRY in the intervening six months between when I told him that, and the deadline, to change anything. We did start going back to marriage counseling, and things improved, but HE wasn't doing anything to get us there. I still had to be the one making the appointments, etc. He insists he loves me, he simply got overwhelmed and depressed and saw no hope, so couldn't take any action. Maybe something similar is happening for your T.

Seriously, I want to kick your husband sometimes. What the... I have no words. Angry face is probably best.

It's true, that would fit in with his mostly-passive attitude. It's hard for me to relate to because I'm not like that, but I definitely have that same feeling you're describing. Like, seriously, this is your response? You're right, there may be much more to his inaction that I can know about, since I don't know him as a person, just as T.

Side note, has your H tried antidepressants?

He has no mental health issues, Sally. No therapeutic issues. Only going to therapy because I told him he started going weekly or he needed to move out.

Ah, no, how silly of me. Of course not.

Hi Sally,

I don't come here much anymore, but I had to come out of lurkdom to say how sorry I am to hear how the story with your therapist has been unfolding. I'd be beyond heartbroken (and pissed) if the same happened with my therapist.

I don't want to confound my experience with yours, but one thing I wanted to say was that as much of a douche canoe as your therapist is being right now (hope outraged name calling is okay for the moment), it's probably for the best that you're moving on, at least temporarily. When I went through a huge rupture with my T last year, the thing that got to me the most was that she just refused to talk about her side of it after a certain point. As in, she wouldn't share any of her feelings or reactions or responses. I know that her intentions were good, that she was trying to keep me from becoming triggered and to focus on me, not her, but the whole thing was just all the more triggering for me. I ended up taking several months off from therapy, and when I came back things were a little better, but still difficult. I'm impressed with your ability to have the presence of mind to seek out an alternate therapist amidst the shitstorm your T has been perpetuating.

I'm in a rush, and not sure I'm really saying anything coherent here, but at the very least, know that I'm hoping that things work out well for you (whatever that might look like).

Oh, and one thought on why your T is perhaps acting the way he is - maybe he's too entangled? Too hurt, and therefore too tangled up to be able to respond therapeutically. Feels like countertransference run amok.

I agree with lifelike above, it sounds like your therapist has his own issues. His issues are probably not helping yours, and maybe he knows that. If he hasn't cried that hard in 3 or 4 years, something has been triggered in him. Ruptures can often be reenactments, where both sides of the therapeutical room are engaged in something that is not in the here and now, but in a transference of their own.

It sounds like maybe he doesn't want to disclose personal information, but is trying to tell you that maybe he needs time. I do think it would be nice if he gave you some concrete answer, but it looks like that isn't going to happen

I don't know about your T, Sally, but I'm concerned about YOU. I get feeling betrayed, abandoned, manipulated, enraged, and the extreme suicidal thoughts/urges. It feels like getting run over by a freight train while everyone sits and watches and they can stop it at anytime but they allow it to keep rolling right over you. After having gone through this hellish nightmare, the last thing I want is for you or anybody else to go through it. I'm here if you need me, though. Feel free to PM.

I am in a deadened state right now, depression, I'm not experiencing much. I hope that you look for another therapist even if it is just temporary. I wish I had found a therapist before I left my xT, it would have made the termination a lot less traumatic.
Take care of you!

hey Sally! I'm sorry you have to go thru this. I have been in limbo myself for almost 2 month...icky. Every appointment with XT was like ! Erg...so frustrating. I still don't have a permanent t, why is it that I can be stable for a long time and then a few weeks with no t makes me go batshit crazy? I have Frau t temporarily, but there's no way I can call her in crisis.

Anyhow...I feel for you, and I hope that a new t can plug the hole for you quickly.

Thanks so much for posting, likelife. I think your experience is definitely related... I do know that at times, it was definitely the case that T was trying so hard to make it about me that he failed to acknowledge the stuff he was doing that was affecting me (I'm sure in some way that was also a way to not have to deal with it, but I do know his intentions weren't evil). Which made me feel insane. Moreso than usual.

Douche canoe. I like it.

And yeah. I think entanglement is a great word. Obviously I can't say for sure what's going on with him, but it's very clearly gotten to the point where his own emotions about it aren't tolerable for him, either. We used to talk for five hours a week. Five. Hours. And we would still go over time. How the hell did we talk so much? Anyway with that kind of attachment it's hard not to get sucked in when things start going wrong... but unfortunately, as the T, he really needs to stand firm, and it would have been really helpful if he'd started standing firm a long time ago.

Thanks again

I know you're having such a rough time of it Antimatter. Be careful what you wish for on the PMs .

But yeah. I know I need to push forward on finding a new T. I really really appreciate your concern.

As for T... yeah... I don't see anything concrete coming anytime soon. He SEEMS as if he's totally sincere about not knowing why things suddenly went awry. Which is baffling to me, but it may be something that I simply won't ever relate to. I believe you're correct in saying that he needs time... I don't think he realized he would need time until after I blew up at him last week. I was really harsh. I feel kinda bad about it. I can't even tell him that. DAMN IT.

That. Is the perfect. Emoticon combination. That completely describes my T dealings.

I'm so sorry things aren't quite there with Frau T. That sucks. I definitely feel your limbo-world now, it's a very odd feeling. It does make me dread a crisis. I'm hoping you find a way out of limbo too

What's funny is, that oddly helpful and clear comment he made about us probably having the same problems until we reached some kind of resolution, and committing to contact a consultant regardless? He came to that conclusion after chatting with a colleague of his . So the least entangled/passive thing he has said came from someone else! I wonder if he/she is accepting new clients...

Sally,
Why not write him a letter and send it snail mail? Your email was sent in relation to your frustration of not understanding what was going on, and you have a right to your own feelings, including anger and rage. When people are traumatized, their impulse control and cognitive filter are one of the first things to go (at least with me they are).
Your therapist, although it really sounds like he is having issues, well, I wish he had been able to do this in a less destabilizing way. It sounds like he is destabilized at this point. That doesn't change the fact that what you are going through is absolutely hellish. I am rooting for you big time!!!! PM away, I can handle it

Thanks Anti . I'll probably hold off on any contact at all... I felt ok just pouring my feelings out on him when I thought I could always go back to being his patient, but now that I know he wants/needs space, I don't feel ok invading that. He is actually supposed to let me know sometime this week about whether a consultation with his colleague will happen or not; if there is something I feel I need to say, I will say it after that.

I do miss him . Writing about some of the good things he did in responses to other posts makes me miss the good stuff. Can't forget about all the bad stuff but there was good stuff, and I miss it today. I wish I could tell him that... I miss when I used to tell him everything...

Wow, a really tough situation to be in...
I hope everything works out for you.its hard when you miss a t, especially if you worked together for a long time.

Don't really know what to say

Another ? Or 2 ?

hang in there

I think it's really cool, Sally, that you are trying to be respectful of his space and his need to work through things. I hope that you hear from him soon about the consult with the other T.

((((((((SallyBrown)))))))!!

I'm sorry I'm so slow to respond. I was waiting for enough time to really read, and process, and think before I replied, but clearly, that time is never going to appear, so I wanted to at least jump in and say SOMETHING.

The situation you are in SUCKS. I know you know that, but wow, having just gone through something similar myself, I just so get how painful and confusing it is. And the thing is, it's a relationship, with 2 people, so no matter how willing we are to look at our part, to own our own stuff, to participate as much as we can in the untangling of the mess, if the other person is stuck for whatever reason - unwillingness, confusion, etc etc - there's really nothing we can do. That's what made me feel the most powerless in my own situation. I could do a million things to try to fix it, but unless T was willing (or able) to do his part, there really was no way to move forward.

I did take a long break from T and then saw him here and there before really starting to see him regularly a couple of weeks ago. In my own situation, it seems like something finally "clicked" for T...I know he was doing his own work on all of this all along, but nothing was changing...and then it seems like things did change. I can FEEL the change in the room. He's there, with me, and for me. I know I'll never know his side of the story, and I have to just let it go...I'm just grateful that it seems to be working out (so far).

I was fully prepared for it to not work out though - and it was a really painful thought. I was looking for other therapists, because I knew I would need help working through this, let alone the things that brought me to therapy in the first place. So, I wonder if while you are in this 'limbo" place you seem to be in, looking at other T's (like you're doing) could be a good, empowering thing to do? I needed to do SOMETHING that made me feel like I had some power to move forward...otherwise it just so closely mirrored my childhood, being at the mercy of someone else no matter what I did. Ugh.

I think I basically just want you to know I'm thinking of you and I'm hating that you are going through this.

Lots and lots of to you.