REALLY struggling

nightsky, I don't understand your T. It's like something happened to change him, to make him completely opposite of how he used to be. You did have a strong, close relationship with him. I've got to believe that for my sake too. I don't want therapy to be fake. Your T always sounded so wonderful. There was so much closeness between you that it's hard to believe it wasn't genuine. It makes me think that there are missing pieces to this puzzle. I know it will take time but you WILL heal from this pain. I just wish there was a way to make it easier for you. I do think that talking it over with another T would be wise.

Hi Nightsky,
(Just finished a whole long reply and it got erased!)
I'm so so sorry this happened! I'm still very confused as to how all this even started, and have often tried to search through threads to find out. I joined in May of this past year, so if it started before then I don't know when that would be.
I've dealt with a similar situation. I worked with a therapist for three years, and she came off as so capable in working out relationship issues, in taking care of herself, ETC. Basically I eventually came to the realization that she was putting her needs before her clients in a big way! For example, allowing us to be on her facebook page, envolving her son in therapy groups/ apprenticing that she did, having apprentices that were also clients, disclosing way too much about herself in sessions. I was warned about this long before I accepted it. I didn't want to. As you said, it was so hard for me to believe that this person I thought really cared, basically had constructed a big lie!
When I confronted her about it she got very deffensive. When I tried, ( with the support of another therapist and others who had been hurt by her) to warn people she was currently working with, she got even more out of control saying I was destructive.
What helped me with this was several things. The book A shining Affliction by Annie Rogers. It's about a therapist in training who through her experience with a particular client is forced to face many traumas including childhood abuse, but also most pressing, betrayal by her former therapist. It talks about how she worked through this with the help of another therapist as well as her inner resources. It was such an affirming book for me to read at the time.
Also the website: Therapy Exploitation Link Line I believe it's www.tell.org
Or you can just google the tittle. Anyway, it's a support site for people who have been harmed by their therapists. You write in with your story and it gets sent to members who have volunteered to give guidance and support. I got about four very good responses that validated my feelings, and reminded me that none of this was my fault and that I'd come out the other side stronger.
Also, talking to a friend who was a t, writing about it offten, working with my new t, these things all helped me.
Sorry for such a long post. Just know that you're not alone. If you want to talk more feel free to PM me.
Big hugs!

nightsky sending tons and tons of safe hugs

I have no idea what happened but I've read some of your threads after you decided to come back. I admire you for your courage and strength. You worked so hard. I hope you take away from that relationship how much you grew and how committed you were to making things right again. I do remember that you've always had some of the best advice and lessons to share with others on this forum. I also hope you quickly find another therapist because this ending should not be allowed to derail all the tremendous growth you made and the journey that you need to continue to be the person you want to be.

I want to thank you guys for the support and advice and ideas.

I am not reading her blog - I haven't for nine months. The new information I have is information she is e-mailing directly to me. I wish she would LEAVE ME ALONE. She said her last e-mail was for her "closure". I so hope that is true.

I'm not pressing charges against anyone. I COULD press charges against her, but I'm choosing not to, unless I have to for my own protection. I just want this to end.

I've been writing, and it helps. It's helping to get some of the poison out. I'm not going to ask for my things back from T. He can do what he wants with them. I do think I am going to give his things back to him, though. I don't want to see him, but i will leave them for him. The good things from our "relationship" are things I carry inside of me...the courage I learned to connect with others is the biggest. That is real, and is part of me now. Seeing T's things around triggers me and makes me sad. I could just throw them away, and I know returning them to him is kind of an immature way of "getting back" at him, but maybe as I continue writing, that urge will go too. I do want to move forward.

It's hard not to get caught in a loop of "OMG, I spent 5 years of my life with this person and they threw me away". Because it's TRUE. But just because it's true doesn't mean I have to dwell on it. It's hard not to. I don't know WHAT to do.

I am thinking I may find a new therapist just to help me with this one thing. Because this is really hard. Not starting over, just working through what happened with T.

I know I will find a way to be okay, and I know this will always be a little sad spot inside of me.

It's just so fresh right now, and so surprising. And so painful.

It will get better.

Thank you for the website recommendation, adel. I'll go check it out for sure.

I so appreciate PC

Sending you huge hugs nightsky

Oh this is a ray of light in the storm. I was so happy to read this.

Nightsky as usual your beautiful character is shining through all this... it shows in the way that you have stepped back your feelings of revenge against T, not asking for your things back... you are focusing on what you did gain from the 5 yrs (and it was a lot), and looking toward the future. Please believe me, through all the pain and confusion that you may feel now, your instincts are still sound and your healing is manifest and real.

Please let us know how it goes with you. You're loved!!!

The thing I was thinking about, lying in bed trying to sleep, was the possibility of having your attorney write a letter to your T. The attorney can say that he or she has been detained in the event that the woman continues this harassing, slanderous campaign against you AND can provide to your T the proof that this woman is lying about you. Just a thought. Not threatening. Not any form of revenge. You will simply be showing that you DO have proof and indirectly pointing out that your has been a total asshole to believe this other person instead of you.

I stumbled over this and think you meant [B]retained[/B]. I make those kind of typos all the time.

Sometimes having an attorney write a letter can be very helpful. Doesn't even need to say as much as above. Just the letterhead and a request to stop, or perhaps request for repair, can be helpful. Sometimes more can make recipients more defensive, while a request to cease & disist without back-up information can be more unnerving.

I'm trying to remember the details - who would your therapist be talking to (as opposed to listening to). You could rescind any authorizations forms you signed if that's an issue.

When I was in law school, my friends in clinical psych were all a-twitter (in the old fashioned way) about the new professor they hired to direct the clinical program. I met the guy at a party and just had a really bad feeling about him. He started small, creating just little hurt feelings between people, telling too much here, omitting information there. Staff people were upset at each other, faculty blamed it on them not liking change. He gradually went big, turning faculty on each other, creating one sh*tstorm after another, while idly standing by and observing his handiworks. And when someone-- and these were smart, powerful professors (or as powerful as these types of roles can be) tried to call him on his crap, he claimed that they were the ones lying and he marshalled the even more powerful sorts (the administrators) to take his side. He was now the victim of others, you see.

That guy is now in federal prison for embezzling research funds, but he managed to do this ***** at more than 4 major universities for 30 years before he was caught. Because that's just how good some pathological liars are. And this is what they love best-- creating drama between other people where they can stand back and watch. They are like emotional pyromaniacs.

I don't blame your T-- maybe I really should-- but your description of her really reminds me of this whole situation. So many smart people who had known each other for so long and worked together so well were just-- bamboozled-- by this pathological liar. Their relationships were unraveled in short order and they just could not figure out what the real problem is.

I think your T has been caught up in this. I don't think it's his fault, if she's as good as I think she is. But that doesn't erase how he has cared for you and how he has loved you for all these years. Nothing that has come before this means anything different than it did before he terminated you.

I'm sorry for your pain. I think to whatever extent you can let things go gracefully rather than catch yourself up in symbolic moves against your T, the better off you might be. IMO only.

THat's what I think happened with my therapist too. As best I can tell she has a totally different narrative about it. With time, she blamed it on "circumstances" for which she is ever-so-regretful (and equating correlation with causality and placing our behaviors beyond our control in the circumstances) but not so regretful as to want to meet with me again to resolve things and help healing.

I listen to you and I hear a lot of clarity and strength. I hear you feeling your feelings and expressing your feelings in various ways, and waiting to act until you've had time to process your feelings. I hear you thinking about how to move forward, considering options and changing them as you further consider them. And doing all this while in immense pain. Is this what it is like? or is it different?

This story helped. This feels like IT, exactly.

I know that this will probably be seen as a horrible idea, but I've asked T for one more session. We had our last "closure" session, and then three days later I received an e-mail from the other client with all of the "evidence" in it...right after I was never going to see T again and had no real way to defend myself. That's why I sent him the letter later that week.

When we had our "closure" session, I really felt okay-ish. Not good, but I was able to take away some good things. Then AFTER that a whole pile of new drama started and it just feels really uncomfortable having that hanging around after everything was supposedly "over".

I just want to SEE him and see it was okay to fight back by writing the letter (he told me to fight back) and see if the caring is still the same. I want REAL closure. Not closure followed by a ton of drama. That sucked.

I was completely blindsided by the e-mail full of accusations after my last session. It doesn't feel fair. I honestly want to sneak and see him - park behind the building, go in through a different door, etc - so she can't drive by and see that I'm there. I'm afraid if she knows we're in contact, she'll reappear.

I know I am probably fooling myself, thinking that I can reach a real point where the closure feels good, and right, and complete. But then again, maybe I could at least get a little closer.

I e-mailed T to ask if the things he left for me in the last message he left for me are still true. That he will carry me with him, that we did good work, that he is fond of me and loves me. I want them to be true.

And, honestly, if they're NOT true, I want to know that too. If he changed his mind, if he isn't so fond of me after all, whatever. It will hurt, but at least I will know how to feel. I know from all of this that I can survive some pretty HUGE hurt.

I had to guess what other people were feeling my ENTIRE life, and I don't want to guess now. I want to know, good or bad.

My wish is that his feelings haven't changed, that he will let me come in for a final session, that I will be able to *know* he really heard my side of the story. Maybe that he will apologize.

I know it's stupid. I know time will make it better either way - if I see him or if I don't. But I hope I can have this one thing.

I would definitely sneak in. Or even better, have someone drop you off by the back door so that your car is nowhere around. Please take in your own proof! I have a huge impulse to just smack your T.

Ugh. Can you block her from emailing you? That sounds so awful. Hope you can get some sort of closure somehow.

I don't think it's stupid to want some closure after all that has happened. Whether it will work out or not is another matter, but yes, I do think you deserve a chance to be heard.

I had a pathological liar in my life for a while. It was an awful situation to be in. This person was so good at spinning stories, telling half truths, putting just enough factual evidence into her lies to make them all believable. The research that was clearly done to construct some lies was incredible and the lies she would bother telling over the tiniest little things (as well as the big things) were almost unbelievable. There certainly are people out there who seem to live with drama (from their lies) following them everywhere, yet they are so good at convincing others that it's down to everything and everyone else and they've done nothing wrong.

It would have done something really bad to me if that sort of stuff was tied into the huge ruptures I've experienced with my T. Both things, the lies and the ruptures are awful things to deal with. I do think you deserve to be heard and I wonder if your T is capable of distancing himself enough from the situation in order to hear you and help give you final closure. It sounds like he's so mixed up and has been so off track with it all. If T won't listen, then I hope you'll find the right person who will...when you're ready.

Can you just forward her email to your T? I think it is fine if you want another session-- you should do exactly what you feel is best for you, but no matter what, T should see what she is saying to you.

Also, do you want to tell her to stop contacting you, including emailing you? If so, send her back an email stating something like "I do not wish to have any further communications with you. Do not email me. Do not call me. Do not write or fax or text or facebook post or in any other way contact me. If you contact me again, I will report your harassment to the police and seek a restraining order against you."

It is good you are asking for what you need and that you know what you need. I hope you can get that closure. You are so right. You deserve it.

These are true, Nightsky. Ghandi said that to a friend when the friend had to move overseas, and I told my xT that this really moved me, hoping that whenever we parted that maybe he would say this to me. He didn't say anything like that, nor do I think he does. But YOUR T DID say this, and I think he does mean it When I think of all that you have posted, all that you two went through, I somehow know that this is true. I hope you do get another session for closure, you deserve that.

I hope the session goes very well for you. You deserve closure.
And that other person does not deserve closure at yourexpense (email).
It sounds like she is poking at you, stirring the pot.

Just sending lotsa for you. Carry some in your pocket and use when needed

Hi..

I just wanted to share that I talked with T for half an hour today and it helped, a LOT. I don't feel comfortable going into a ton of detail, but he really said exactly what I needed to hear him say. And he sounded so sad and even though it sounds awful, that kind of made me feel better. I think he really gets it now, and we can't go back and fix it, but somehow, it feels easier to move forward knowing that he gets it and he feels bad. I cried a ton, of course, and he was just good, normal T and he helped me.

He asked me to send him the next thing I get published and I asked if I could send other things sometimes too, and he said yes, for sure.

So. I'm still sad, but it's a better kind of sad. Less desperate. It feels like a step in the right direction.

I told him that all of his stuff was under my desk. He said whenever I doubted his feelings for me to run upstairs and read the note he wrote for me on the back of the white board he gave me. He said that it's still true, and that it WILL BE true. I asked if he promised, and he did.

It's probably the best outcome I could get in this crappy situation. NOW I feel like there's some real closure on the therapy, and a little bit of hope for connection here and there moving forward. Not therapy connection, but just people connection.

I can breathe a little again.

I still may look for another therapist - I sent the one I was thinking of to T, and T said he "liked his credentials" and that he is someone he doesn't know personally. Until then, I don't know if I can come here and read about therapy - i'm afraid it will bring back the hurt. But you never know. I'm just taking it day by day.

Nightsky...it's good to see you can find some room to breathe...

I hope you will pop in to PC whenever you need support...

Nightsky.... your conversation with your t, sounds like t you had. I am glad you were able to get some real closure.....

take care of you and visit when you feel up to it. pc just won't be the same without you!

sending safe hugs to you, and your family

Day by day. You won't be forgotten here, you know that.

PS I am so relieved to hear about your phone call. thank you!

Wow, Nightsky2!! I'm so glad you knew what you needed - to talk to him again. I am really so happy to hear that you are feeling much better!

Great job!!!!