[BarbSue]

I started seeing my therapist about 3 months ago due to a long term emotionally abusive relationship (long term and two older teens). He has helped me finally get up the courage to tell my husband it's over. This happened fairly recently and my husband and the boys are handling it so much better than expected. I am a professional and can't believe how smoothly it's going.

I have very strong transference now for my therapist. I have very low self esteem and am very afraid of being alone/lonely so I think this was inevitable. He is the antithesis of my husband - candid, sense of humour, compassionate, intelligent MATURE. FYI - I am 52 and I'm guessing he's around 65?

I have so much respect and admiration for my T, however here is what I posted recently in the new members blog:

He oftent compliments me, somewhat generically, on a regular basis with comments such as:

"Your husband will eventually realize he lost the best thing that ever could have happened to him."
"I can guarantee that you will find someone else if you leave your husband.
The men will be lining up for you." (This has been repeated numerous times).

Yesterday, he told me numerous times that he thinks I am very attractive. He added numerous other compliments and again added that men will be lined up...

In encouraging me to face up to my very low self esteem, he once asked what I have done in my past that causes my guilt. Before I could answer, he followed up with..."Do you masterbate when the neigbors are watching?" (This was definitley communicated as a rhetorical/commical question)
He has asked very personal questions about my sex life with my soon to be ex husband such as:
Do you undress in front of your husband. Do you stand naked in front of your husband?
After asking if I kiss my husband when we make love, to which I responded no, he stated "it's sometimes easier to kiss the genitals than the lips".

Yesterday, I expressed my urge to start dating despite knowing it's too early, he asked "are you horny?"

Though I have been seeing him weekly lately, yesterday he informed me he is too booked up to see me before 3 weeks. Somehow, I knew this was coming and I'm not sure why.

The next day he sent me an email indicating he had ordered a book for me on-line that would be sent to my office - a book he had recommended at the end of our session.

My feedback after posting this was very negative - that I should dump him asap and run. Friends who know me well have mixed feedback, though most agree.

I had composed a dear John email and can't get up the courage to send it. I can't face knowing I will never see him again

So sorry to those of you who have already read parts of this. I do so much appreciate your advice. I'm weak and a coward and somehow feel more feedback might help me regain the courage I thought I had after reading your posts.

Much appreciated - Barb

p.s. lots about my past that would cause low self esteem - much of which my therapist knows but has never addressed (e.g., mother committed suicide after numerous attempts when I was growing up).

[Crescent Moon]

I think he started out ok.. but has escalated to grossly inappropriate commentary.

If you are uncertain, you could perform a few tests.

Next time he asks a blatantly sexual question like "are you horny?" try this:
1. Stare him dead in the eye and ask "and what is it about that question that is therapeutic for me?" or
2. stare him dead in the eye and say "are you asking this for my benefit, or for your own benefit?"

I see nothing wrong with the first group of comments. He is using positive reinforcement because you have low self-esteem. I would say the same things to a friend who is in your position. "Look at you - you're attractive, men will be lining up!" etc.

You're in a very vulnerable position right now because you don't want to be alone, and your T is a kind of knight in shining armor. He has helped you to end a marriage that wasn't working (saved you). You feel grateful. Who wouldn't????

I don't know about the more explicit sex comments. How much time do you spend talking about sex? Are you unsure of yourself sexually? It's hard to tell how these comments fit into the general session conversation. Is he just lobbing them in from left field, or are you very sensitive about the subject?

You say you knew the business about him being booked for 3 weeks was coming, but you don't know why. If he's a good T, he knows that you're liable to see him as a savior and take the positive reinforcement personally, and think that he is coming on to you. He may be intentionally putting some distance between you to stave that off. Actually, I think he has a fine line to walk to try to build up your self-esteem without you perceiving as personal interest.

I think the bottom line is how uncomfortable all this makes you. I don't think that 3 months is long enough to have built up a lot of trust toward him. So if you're really worried that he may make advances toward you, perhaps it would be best to end the relationship and find another T. But it would be a shame to lose a good T that you like because he could provide some good support in the coming months as you adjust to a new lifestyle.

[BarbSue]

Bunny. You make so many great points. I have rarely raised the issue of sex with my T, but yes I raised it in our first appointment and the fact that my husband was selfish - no more details. I also raised that he couldn't stop glaring at the topless women when we went south for a week. I have never raised the topic otherwise - though he has (and I felt with legitmate questions - albeit rather bluntly phrased). When I raised the issue of dating, I felt guilty when he responded with his question - as if I provoked it. My answer was "I've been void of real intimacy for so long, so yes". I later felt so guilty about my response.

I have also wondered if he knew that I was inevitably feeling transference and that is why he put off our next appointment. Either way, I felt the rejection so intensely that i felt he should have known that was coming if his goal was to wein me off??

I feel if I wasn't feeling transference, I would enjoy his candor - part of what I love about him.

Of course, a big part of this is that I want to believe he feels the same way.

Sooooo confused - just want to be there for my children who still need my reassurance.

Thanks
Barb

I guess this is me, BarbSue, but I don't think that ANY therapist who has worked with someone for three months should be asking the question, "are you horney" when a client makes mention that she is thinking about dating again. . .. heck, I don't think that a therapist who has worked with a client for two or more years should be putting the question of intimacy in those terms! Maybe it's just me but I have to say it's pretty crude and rude. I think that intimacy and dating is a lot more than being "horney"! Just my take on things.

[lostin08]

This whole thing sounds very scarey.... Please be careful!

[roads]

BarbSue, I am in great sympathy with your dilemma. Hankster's thought that T could be viewing you somewhat as a peer does seem a possibility, especially if he is attracted to you & is not acting entirely professionally for whatever reason.

But bottom line has to be your safety--including mental health safety. I'd inclined to recommend that you simply cancel any pending appointments with him and have no further contact--not even for a referral. I wouldn't want to make it easy for him to know where you go.

I ended up involved with my therapist, and it wasn't a healthy thing. It never ought to have happened. But these things do, for lots of reasons.

Rather than risk compounding your existing issues, I would just start out fresh with someone else. Since three months is the total of your therapy work, it seems that the time you've invested with this original therapist ought not to be wasted. Don't worry--therapy work is never wasted. And chances are your total time working with someone will be in the neighborhood of a couple years, so three months relatively speaking isn't so long.

From what you've told us, you seem to have gotten a lot of positives from this initial therapeutic encounter. I think that says a great deal about you. All the "nice things" this man said about you I suspect he genuinely felt. You seem like someone who has the inner resources to be okay, with "a little help from her friends"--or her therapist. go out and find yourself a well-grounded therapist who can help you (& indirectly your sons) over this speed-bump in your life.

Then get on with your children's choosing their own adult paths and watch them go ... maybe grand kids ... so much.

Don't get tripped up here. It seems big now. It's three months in a lifetime ... does it really seem worth the risk?

Roadie

[elliemay]

Well, most things are context driven, and, since you say your therapist is rather blunt, I think you have to look at the overall tone and contextual framework of your therapy.

At first glance, I was like "WHAT???" at your therapist comments. However, when I thought back to some of the things that my therapist said I was like "WOWSA" without some context that man would probably lose his practice!

Strange, but the thing that I find most inappropriate is him ordering a book for you online without you asking. Maybe he gets the books for free or something. If so, why would he tell you about it and not just give you the book?

So, you've got your gut feeling, and that's hard to ignore. Really hard. Once the notion of predator has entered into the mind, it's hard to root it out.

Rather than a Dear John email, perhaps a pre-Dear John email or phone call?

It could simply state that "an issue has come that is leading me towards termination. Before I make that decision, I want to have a discussion with you about it. I know you said you were booked, but this is quite important to me, let's try to address it sooner rather than later"

The question then becomes, if this guy has an explanation for his actions/words could you ever accept it at face value? What would a good explanation look like? What would it take?

[KazzaX]

I know it is acceptable to talk about sexual stuff in therapy. But the things you listed there sound a bit like he is trying to get the gory details - that is the bit that worries me. And asking what you do during sex, to me, sounds way out of line. Like he is getting his kicks from listening to the answers.

I could understand it if say you were going there to recover from a sexual abuse background and you had to discuss things that happened in that context. But the way you described it sounds like, to me, he is bringing up sexual stuff where it really isn't relevant. Eg. When talking about self esteem he makes that GIANT LEAP to "oh she must have done something sexual that she feels guilty about". Where is the connection there? I have no idea. Its quite a leap.

I would keep an eye on this one if I were you.

[anilam]

BarbSue,
glad to hear you're divorcing your H- though I wouldn't go that far and say it's your T's doing- you're seeing him only for 3 months so I'd say you had to make that decision long before that.
Anyway, from what you've written it's hard to say whether or not he's abusing his power over you as a T. As far as I go, I wouldn't tolerate this kind of behaviour for my T, but everybody's different. Only you can decide that.
However, I would strongly recommend you to talk to your T about that- how should his remarks be beneficial? that he needs to rephrase that (TBH some sound really pervy) and given you have a weekly appointment what's going on, that you have to take a 3week pause- is he going on vacation?
No matter what I wouldn't end it with a Dear John letter.
Take care.

[BarbSue]

Wow - thanks to everyone for your support and comments.

In thinking about it, other than the comments I made at our first meeting, I have never raised the issue of sex. In the context of our bad relationship, he asked how often we have sex and a string of related questions followed. He started with, "I hope this doesn't make you uncomfortable". In the context of my anxiety about telling my husband and my caretaking personality, he stated "let your husband to find someone elses breast to suck".

So the comments always come out of left field. After each question/comment, I get a little waive of nausea, take a deep breath and then convince myself this is good therapy. I answer his questions (where not rhetorical) and then later wonder if doing so promotes them.

I have some belief about your theory Bunny, that he is walking a fine line - the reason for delaying the next appointment. He did say he was going on holidays and that is why the next 3 weeks are booked (i.e., leaving after the three weeks). When I received the email the next morning, it put a dent in that theory. FYI - no the book was not free - the details were attached to the email. Also, I replied "very kind of you" and "I will reimburse you when I see you". He did not reply to that email.

Just some thoughts - thanks for letting me go on and on.

Big hugs...

[roads]

BarbSue, if you decide that PsychCentral is a safe and supportive place for you and you spend time with us ...
then one by one our issues will arise and you'll be "letting [us] go on and on"!

That's what we do here--let each other review or whine orand try to help pull out insights and coping skills. I'm so glad you're sticking with this and are willing/able to see this through.

Roadie

[WikidPissah]

this is my gut reaction: run ... fast.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by BarbSue

lots about my past that would cause low self esteem - much of which my therapist knows but has never addressed (e.g., mother committed suicide after numerous attempts when I was growing up).

He is ignoring this very, very important stuff in order to address perverted stuff. You deserve better! This stuff from your past needs to be dealt with.

[Crescent Moon]

Can`t help but wonder... assuming he`s married.. does he not get much at home?

Next time he asks you an overly intrusive sexual question, ask him!

[unaluna]

http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...78#post2357078
did you see these articles on erotic vs eroticized transference? As the others have said, it is kind of early to know what you're feeling, but that comment about your husband finding some other - that was kinda GRAPHIC, wasn't it? Makes me wonder if this guy wants your business. Or not even that - just, are you a good match, a good therapeutic pair? He doesn't have to be bad, to be not a good fit for you.

[lynn P.]

I agree with the last posters here - this therapist has said inappropriate comments and I think you should switch therapists. If I were you, I think a female therapist would be better. You said he's exactly like your husband and sorry you've suffered in this marriage. You're vulnerable ATM and its like you're jumping from one hot pot into another one. He should be dealing with helping you heal from this abuse....not questioning about your sex life. You're not there because of sexual problems. Usually women who've been abused, also have difficulty asserting themselves and the last thing you need is a male therapist blindsiding you. Run fast - he should be calming you not making you scratch your head.

[unaluna]

and from a woman with teenage kids, not just an armchair quarterback like me

[mixedup_emotions]

I haven't read the responses....cuz I have really cruddy internet service right now (sorry)....But what's most important through all of this is how you're feeling about what he says, and how you ultimately react. If you are cowering and burying your feelings, that's important information (victim mentality). If you confront him and put him on the spot about it, that's important information (showing your power). It's all about how you feel during the process and how you decide to handle it. Through every difficult situation I've encountered in T, it has been tremendously valuable to witness my own feelings and actions - and gain the wisdom that it provides.

[BarbSue]

Originally Posted by Roadie

BarbSue, if you decide that PsychCentral is a safe and supportive place for you and you spend time with us ...
then one by one our issues will arise and you'll be "letting [us] go on and on"!

That's what we do here--let each other review or whine orand try to help pull out insights and coping skills. I'm so glad you're sticking with this and are willing/able to see this through.

Roadie

Very sweet and comforting

[BarbSue]

Originally Posted by hankster

and from a woman with teenage kids, not just an armchair quarterback like me

LOL - I value your opinions Hankster, airmchair or not : O)

[BarbSue]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

I agree with the last posters here - this therapist has said inappropriate comments and I think you should switch therapists. If I were you, I think a female therapist would be better. You said he's exactly like your husband and sorry you've suffered in this marriage. You're vulnerable ATM and its like you're jumping from one hot pot into another one. He should be dealing with helping you heal from this abuse....not questioning about your sex life. You're not there because of sexual problems. Usually women who've been abused, also have difficulty asserting themselves and the last thing you need is a male therapist blindsiding you. Run fast - he should be calming you not making you scratch your head.

Hi Lynn. What I said was he was the opposite of my husband, but now I am seriously questioning that. He seemed so forthright - no games?? Given the feedback, including yours above, I believe he might be very similar to my husband : (

Thanks

BarbSue.... I believe you even asking these questions, is enough to tell me you are not comfortable and go with your gut. Drop the pervert or at least call him out on it and let the chips fall where they may.

[dizgirl2011]

Hi Barbsue,

As others have said.....taken at face value these comments are highly inappropriate!

What actually really, really worried me was when you said how you felt nauseaus after some of his questions and had to take a deep breath and tell yourself this was good therapy.

That sent alarm bells for me, in concern for you. I think you know deep down how it feels when he says things the way he does and it sounds like you are not comfortable with it but because you feel you 'need' him, you are trying to put it to the back of your mind.
I think the fact you have posted your question (I am glad you did) also shows you are becoming aware that something isn't right.

Even if he isn't being intensionally abusive or a predator, I think he is crossing boundaries as a professional in the way he talks to you and asks you questions. I don't mean that sex shouldn't be discussed but I certainly don't think a therapist should ask a client if he or she is 'horney'- that is so unprofessional and pretty crude. As are many of his comments in my opinion.

I know it's hard to believe but there are many good therapists out there and perhaps it may be an idea to make an appointment with one to talk about this current therapist. You don't have to name him but just discuss what has been said. You may not want to do this however but it is just an idea.

If I was in your position I would leave and make a complaint about his conduct as a therapist but I am guessing you do not want to do that, which is fine. It is more important that you are getting the right help.

I think in a way you have answered your own question but fear leaving this "T" and how you wil feel etc. Just know there are T out there who would be just as supportive, without the crude comments.

all the best

[Alionka]

I am very sad to see that you are still thinking about continuing with this unethical therapist.
You have absolutely no idea how much his actions can and will affect your MH. You are playing with the fire.
Sorry, but I realy don't know how else to warn you.... turn away and don't make the same mistake I did.
I don't think I will ever be the same person.