[rainbow8]

My feelings about my session today are mixed-up. I feel like pushing it all away. I'm not sure how to process it, but one thing I know for sure. My T is not kicking me out or punishing me; she is going to help me work through my boundary crossing issues.

We were talking about googling, and then I mentioned something I did but was proud of myself because I didn't tell her and it was over with. That was driving by her house. She is not angry, but curious. She says it will continue with others if I don't work through it.

I don't know how I sat through the session. I was a wreck, but not crying, of course. She kept asking those "where in your body" questions about it, and then she brought up my brother. She's convinced it has to do with him. She said I'm doing to HER what he did to ME. I never thought of that. I feel really bad about all of this. I feel like I'm a bad person but T says I'm not.

She knows I couldn't help driving past her house. I wasn't ever going to tell her I did it this time, but somehow she got it out of me.

She says part of me knows it's wrong, but the part that does it can't stop, and we will work on that.

I have to make dinner, but I need to write more about this. I feel like exploding, crying, but T said I disassociated during the session when I got very still and said I felt like I was floating. It was horrible talking about it, though she kept saying she's not going to punish me.

I don't want to think it has to do with my brother, and she asked why not? I don't know. Maybe it does.

More in a while.

Thanks for sharing this Rainbow I am dreading the "driving by Ts house" conversation. Sometimes its deliberate but sometimes its accidental as someone I know lives at the other end of his street and its shorter to drive past his house.
I know how you feel. I'm glad your T said she wasn't going to punish you
((((((Rainbow)))))

[rainbow8]

T didn't make any big deal about googling. She asked what I found. She said she's googled herself so she knows what is there. I said I saw her high school photo but she said that it's probably the wrong person--that I looked under her married name, not her maiden name. But I know I wouldn't be that stupid, and told her so. I was so embarrassed already and that was only the beginning of the session!

When I got home, I checked, and I was right, but it was a college yearbook. So I sent her the link, as I said I would do.

Somehow I got to "driving past her house" though I had told myself I wouldn't tell her, and it was over with, because I only did it once, about a month ago. She said that's not the same as googling because it involves her, not just me. It's kind of like spying, she said, and it crosses boundaries. I told her I found out where all my Ts lived, except for the two who had therapy in their houses. I reminded her of my spying activities with my first T.

She said there's a part of you who does this and thinks it's all right, but a part feels it's not, right? I was so flushed and hot by this time, and I kept fidgeting around, and she kept telling me to notice all of that. It's part of SE, and I didn't mind. She said our bodies tell us a lot that our words don't.

Then she brought up mly brother, and his spying on me, and how I felt about it at the time. I said it was an invasion of my privacy, and I felt exposed. She asked what I would have liked to do to him when I found out, and talked about my feeling powerless because he was older.

Near the end of the session, she stated that maybe I was doing to her what HE did to me, that history often repeats itself like that. I never, ever thought of that before, that maybe she didn't like me to go down her street. She said "what if I was out walking my dog? How would you feel?" I said "embarrassed". I said it would be different if you invited me to your house. But the fact is that she didn't invite me. I just went.

She told me she isn't angry because I said I felt like she's punishing me, and that maybe she won't want to see me anymore. She said that's not true, that the only way I can get over this pattern is to work through the root of it, why I act that way. She really thinks it's about my brother, and asked if my other Ts worked with me on those issues with him. The answer is "not really". They each had an opinion if it was "play" or abuse, and said he had problems, but that's about it.

I felt so drained during the session. T looked very pretty today, but I barely noticed. I was squirming around too much, except for one point after I told her that I was very still. That's when she had to get me grounded--feel my arms, my feet, my legs.

This was not at all what I thought today's session would be like! I am very grateful to my T for insisting I tell her what I found when I googled, and for wanting to know what more I had to tell her--which got me to tell her about driving by her house. She is worried that I will do this with other people, though it's only with Ts. I agree I have to deal with it. I wish I weren't at the end of therapy, but maybe I can get through it by March. Or maybe I'll I have to see her more often and pay for the sessions. I don't know.

No other T got me to face this issue the way she is doing. Whether it's about my brother or not, and I'm sure some of it is, I sure hope that T will be able to help me.

[Syra]

She sounds very lovely. Clear, knowledgeable, supportive, accepting, and compassionate. Is it like that? If so, I bet it feels wonderful to have someone like that.

[jacq10]

That sounds like it must have been a very difficult session for you. It also sounds like you have a very compassionate and understanding T who cares about you. That's big stuff... sharing your secrets... and it's always so nice to feel reassured that the world won't end (and might in fact get better) when they come out.

[MoxieDoxie]

How did T find out you googled her? I google my T's to death, find family members names, looked them all up in Facebook. Why would I need to tell them and open up a can of worms? I do not think it is boundary crossing. It is curiosity because it is unnatural to have a one sided emotional relationship with someone and that is the way to compansate.

[jacq10]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

it is unnatural to have a one sided emotional relationship with someone and that is the way to compansate.

I never thought of it that way, but that makes perfect sense! Thanks!

[sweepy62]

I commend you on your bravery and honesty im sure I would not have been able to do that. Hugs.

I agree with Sweepy. You are very brave, not only to have had the conversation, but to allow us to share in the learning experience with you!

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

I do not think it is boundary crossing. It is curiosity because it is unnatural to have a one sided emotional relationship with someone and that is the way to compensate.

That is more powerful and insightful than you realize! It IS unnatural to have one-sided relationships - but it's not the one with our t that is the problem - it's that we have one-sided relationships IRL because of our issues. We tend to compensate the same way with everyone - ts hold back their participation so we can see our actions, our contributions, our compensations more clearly. I have a new friend that I have been telling t, makes me feel stupid. The question then is, how much of that is the new friend and how much is me? My family always treated me like I was really really stupid and worthless and unwelcome.

Rainbow, kudos on feeling hot and flushed! It's awful, isn't it?? That's such a good description. That's how I have felt when I asked my t if he was going to stop by my apartment on his way home from the airport from vacation. It definitely has to do with family and shame and stuff. Better late than never.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Syra

She sounds very lovely. Clear, knowledgeable, supportive, accepting, and compassionate. Is it like that? If so, I bet it feels wonderful to have someone like that.

Yes, Syra, my T has all the qualities you listed. No wonder I see her as "more than" a regular person! I really do love her, in the normal sense of the word.

Originally Posted by jacq10

That sounds like it must have been a very difficult session for you. It also sounds like you have a very compassionate and understanding T who cares about you. That's big stuff... sharing your secrets... and it's always so nice to feel reassured that the world won't end (and might in fact get better) when they come out.

Yes, it was very difficult but my T was wonderful.

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

How did T find out you googled her? I google my T's to death, find family members names, looked them all up in Facebook. Why would I need to tell them and open up a can of worms? I do not think it is boundary crossing. It is curiosity because it is unnatural to have a one sided emotional relationship with someone and that is the way to compansate.

I told her. It's a long story, but she already knew I've googled her in the past. It often triggers me when I do it, but SHE isn't upset by it. You're right. My T does NOT think googling her is a boundary crossing, but driving past her house is. When I looked up her H and kids on FB, she didn't like it, and it made me feel terrible, so I told her, and we talked about it. Yes, it's curiousity but if it makes me feel worse, and not better, and that happens often, it becomes an issue.

Originally Posted by jacq10

I never thought of it that way, but that makes perfect sense! Thanks!

Originally Posted by sweepy62

I commend you on your bravery and honesty im sure I would not have been able to do that. Hugs.

Thanks, Sweepy. I've discussed the googling before, and I'd already emailed her about it. I went by her old house, a couple of years ago, and told her that because I felt so guilty. This time I wasn't going to tell her, but she kept asking, in a nice way, what else I found out by googling, so I couldn't bear to keep it inside of me.

Originally Posted by PumpkinEater

I agree with Sweepy. You are very brave, not only to have had the conversation, but to allow us to share in the learning experience with you!

Thank you, Pumpkin. I share because it's something I feel I have to do (another compulsion, maybe?) but also because others have told me it helps them. I sincerely hope my threads are helpful to others.

Originally Posted by hankster

That is more powerful and insightful than you realize! It IS unnatural to have one-sided relationships - but it's not the one with our t that is the problem - it's that we have one-sided relationships IRL because of our issues. We tend to compensate the same way with everyone - ts hold back their participation so we can see our actions, our contributions, our compensations more clearly. I have a new friend that I have been telling t, makes me feel stupid. The question then is, how much of that is the new friend and how much is me? My family always treated me like I was really really stupid and worthless and unwelcome.

Rainbow, kudos on feeling hot and flushed! It's awful, isn't it?? That's such a good description. That's how I have felt when I asked my t if he was going to stop by my apartment on his way home from the airport from vacation. It definitely has to do with family and shame and stuff. Better late than never.

Yeah, especially when she asks me all the time: where do you feel it? I used to be self-conscious about telling her that I felt self-conscious! Now I just say "I'm blushing, my face is red, I'm embarrassed, or whatever. My T is trained in mind/body therapy, so she is very interested in my body!
Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[CantExplain]

Great session, Rainbow! You done good.

[CrimsonBlues]

Hello rainbow-I might be missing something so I apologize but isn't FB something that is open to anyone who also has a FB account? I'm one of the few people on the planet who doesn't have a FB account so I'm not positive how it works but if you were able to see her account doesn't that mean it's open to public viewing-and if so, how could your therapist be upset with you about that? Yes, a conversation about your viewing of the FB account would be a helpful idea. I think it's wonderful that you are open about these things with your therapist but nothing you have described sounds like a boundary crossing to me and certainly not a reason for your therapist to punish you somehow. I can't think of a reason why it would be okay for your therapist to punish you ever. Anyway-your open manner is great and will be helpful to you in getting what you need.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlues

Hello rainbow-I might be missing something so I apologize but isn't FB something that is open to anyone who also has a FB account? I'm one of the few people on the planet who doesn't have a FB account so I'm not positive how it works but if you were able to see her account doesn't that mean it's open to public viewing-and if so, how could your therapist be upset with you about that? Yes, a conversation about your viewing of the FB account would be a helpful idea. I think it's wonderful that you are open about these things with your therapist but nothing you have described sounds like a boundary crossing to me and certainly not a reason for your therapist to punish you somehow. I can't think of a reason why it would be okay for your therapist to punish you ever. Anyway-your open manner is great and will be helpful to you in getting what you need.

Thank you for your comments and questions, CrimsonBlues. Yes, FB is open to anyone. I want to be clear about what my T said. She's never said that going on FB is a boundary crossing and she is not upset about it. But I get triggered and upset by seeing her photos and messages. (She doesn't have much there but it's enough to trigger me). I also got upset/triggered when I saw her H's and daughter's FB pages, and couldn't stop myself from looking, because kids are more open about their settings. We've talked about it in the past and, for MY benefit, not hers, she recommended that I don't look there anymore.

What my T said was that driving by her house was a boundary crossing.
I did it when she lived in a different place too, and I told her that time because I felt guilty, and also because it's part of my pattern of obsessing about people. SHE doesn't want to punish me; she wants to help me! I'm the one who feels like I should be punished. Part of me, anyway. My T is wonderful. Whatever I tell her, she says "let's be CURIOUS about it". She would never punish me!! She wants to help me so I won't repeat this pattern of needing to know everything, looking up information, and crossing boundaries, and doing it in a sneaky way, kind of like spying/stalking. It's the WAY I do it, and the compulsion that's the problem, more than the act of driving by her house itself. Same with googling and FB. I hope that makes it clearer.

[likelife]

How do you feel about her having said that driving by her house is a boundary crossing?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by likelife

How do you feel about her having said that driving by her house is a boundary crossing?

"How do you feel?" I can never answer that question! I know you didnt ask me, but what does that MEAN?? bad, hot, flushed, embarrassed, something to do with brother, like a spy - this is where I tell my t, if you already have an answer in mind, tell me, please! Cuz one t told me she was taught never to ask a question if she didnt already know the answer altho I dont know if that applies for how do you feeeeel questions. Sorry for butting in there, the question made me anxious!

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by likelife

How do you feel about her having said that driving by her house is a boundary crossing?

I have a lot of feelings about it: shame, guilt, relief, anxiety, frustration, curiousity, and sadness to name a few. Maybe anger too.

I don't want it to be a boundary crossing, but that's not up to me to decide.
I feel ashamed of doing it, and guilty. I also feel some relief that she knows about it and wants to help me. It didn't "sit right" with me, but I pushed those feelings aside after I did it. Frustrated and sad because I want to be in her life, and this illustrates my pattern that I've lived with all of my life. Anger because it feels like she's rejecting me. That's sadness too. Curiosity because I want to figure it out and not have these compulsions anymore.

Thank you for asking me that question, likelife.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by hankster

"How do you feel?" I can never answer that question! I know you didnt ask me, but what does that MEAN?? bad, hot, flushed, embarrassed, something to do with brother, like a spy - this is where I tell my t, if you already have an answer in mind, tell me, please! Cuz one t told me she was taught never to ask a question if she didnt already know the answer altho I dont know if that applies for how do you feeeeel questions. Sorry for butting in there, the question made me anxious!

hankster, I get you! If I were answering T, I'd have to say the physical stuff because she asks "what do you feel IN YOUR BODY?" I have trouble identifying my feelings, let alone where I feel them in my body!!

The question made me feel anxious too, partially because I was wondering if others think it's NOT a boundary crossing, that I'm making a big deal over nothing, for drama, or if it's SO obvious a boundary crossing that people pity me.

But I pushed asides those concerns and answered what I really do feel, which is a combination of a lot of feelings. Like I told T, the feelings are swirling around in my brain.

[RTerroni]

These are all good things to talk about with your Therapist, and if she is a good Therapist then she will help guide you through them.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Thank you for your comments and questions, CrimsonBlues. Yes, FB is open to anyone. I want to be clear about what my T said. She's never said that going on FB is a boundary crossing and she is not upset about it. But I get triggered and upset by seeing her photos and messages. (She doesn't have much there but it's enough to trigger me). I also got upset/triggered when I saw her H's and daughter's FB pages, and couldn't stop myself from looking, because kids are more open about their settings. We've talked about it in the past and, for MY benefit, not hers, she recommended that I don't look there anymore.

What my T said was that driving by her house was a boundary crossing.
I did it when she lived in a different place too, and I told her that time because I felt guilty, and also because it's part of my pattern of obsessing about people. SHE doesn't want to punish me; she wants to help me! I'm the one who feels like I should be punished. Part of me, anyway. My T is wonderful. Whatever I tell her, she says "let's be CURIOUS about it". She would never punish me!! She wants to help me so I won't repeat this pattern of needing to know everything, looking up information, and crossing boundaries, and doing it in a sneaky way, kind of like spying/stalking. It's the WAY I do it, and the compulsion that's the problem, more than the act of driving by her house itself. Same with googling and FB. I hope that makes it clearer.

I love her. And she's helped me. I love that line - LET'S BE CURIOUS ABOUT THIS. I'm going to remember that and try using it.

[rainbow8]

Syra, my T has told me to be curious about my behavior ever since I started seeing her. I think it comes from IFS training, which teaches us to accept and have compassion for all parts of our personality. I always feel relieved when she uses that word, and I've learned to use it too. I'm really glad that that phrase is helping you!! I love my T too.

[likelife]

Originally Posted by hankster

"How do you feel?" I can never answer that question! I know you didnt ask me, but what does that MEAN?? bad, hot, flushed, embarrassed, something to do with brother, like a spy - this is where I tell my t, if you already have an answer in mind, tell me, please! Cuz one t told me she was taught never to ask a question if she didnt already know the answer altho I dont know if that applies for how do you feeeeel questions. Sorry for butting in there, the question made me anxious!

Sorry, should have asked that more clearly: What's the mix of feelings that come up when she said...?

Or What do you infer about your relationship with T as a result of what she said?

Or What did you hear T say when she said...?

Thanks for calling me out on that non-specific question!

[likelife]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I have a lot of feelings about it: shame, guilt, relief, anxiety, frustration, curiousity, and sadness to name a few. Maybe anger too.

I don't want it to be a boundary crossing, but that's not up to me to decide.
I feel ashamed of doing it, and guilty. I also feel some relief that she knows about it and wants to help me. It didn't "sit right" with me, but I pushed those feelings aside after I did it. Frustrated and sad because I want to be in her life, and this illustrates my pattern that I've lived with all of my life. Anger because it feels like she's rejecting me. That's sadness too. Curiosity because I want to figure it out and not have these compulsions anymore.

Thank you for asking me that question, likelife.

These all sound like perfectly understandable emotional responses. And I think I'd feel a mix of the same. I think knowing that you can tolerate those feelings is a good thing too.

My T talked with me the other day about "functional obsession" and how I threw myself into my relationship with my ex-T in part to avoid needing to deal with the very real problems in my marriage. I think she's absolutely right. I think I was also looking to get my intimacy needs met by my T, since I had pretty much given up on my H being able to meet those needs in a satisfying and not triggering way for me.

My current T called herself a transitional object, which was a way I hadn't previously (or at least explicitly) thought about the T relationship. That I could "use" her in the ways I needed to, with the ultimate goal of taking on those functions for myself. I think this is similar to how your T has framed therapy.

All of this to say that I wonder if some of the compulsions you find yourself doing, or obsessions you find yourself having, stemmed initially from avoidance of intimacy with your H (or just issues with intimacy with your H). I'm talking way back to your early T's. And then perhaps over time, the obsessions/compulsions took on a life of their own. It seems like you've been doing some exposure therapy on our own, for example, by responding to obsessive thoughts about your T with resolve not to compulsively "check" on her (e.g. via FB). Could you imagine extending this, so that gradually you can learn that the anxiety that comes up around your T, and ultimately, about intimacy, will reduce on its own without the need to resort to compulsions?

I think that attachment certainly plays a role too, but idk, there has been something freeing for me about looking at all of this T relationship stuff in a new light. Hopefully there's something helpful in there for you

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by likelife

Sorry, should have asked that more clearly: What's the mix of feelings that come up when she said...?

Or What do you infer about your relationship with T as a result of what she said?

Or What did you hear T say when she said...?

Thanks for calling me out on that non-specific question!

I thought your question was okay, likelife. I just wonder what your opinion about my situation is. Your questions are a little unsettling but really worth thinking about, especially these last two!

What I infer about my relationship with my T is that, in spite of our close relationship, I am not allowed to be in her life without her permission. We're not friends. She doesn't want me driving by her house because it's crossing her boundary. She's my T, not anything else.

It's confusing to me because I know she likes me very much, so I don't understand why going past her house would be crossing a boundary. I don't see the big deal about it. But anyone in RL can have a boundary I don't like, also. I have a friend who doesn't like me to know if she's going out-of-town. She's very private. I don't understand that either. But it hurts more with T.

What I heard T say was "I don't want you." (I know that's illogical)

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

"let's be CURIOUS about it".

My T tells me this too on occasion or she'll say, "be an archeologist - keep digging deeper".

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like if I were a T and a client drove by my house. Maybe it would depend on which client it is. I'm pretty sure that if I knew the address of where my T lives, I would not be able to resist checking it out. As I ask myself, why?, I'm not quite sure - maybe to feel more connected?

And I have googled my T and there is NOTHING on the web. If she had FB or other trails online, I am also pretty sure I would be checking them out.

I'm wondering, Rainbow, if this curiosity about your T could be considered more normal than you're allowing yourself to feel. Or do you believe you'd push the boundaries even more if you could - in other words - drive by house regularly, continue to look at her family's FB pages, etc.

I guess only you know the level of obsession involved. But I still wonder if part of your behavior could be considered ordinary curiosity?