Completely heartbroken

I think sometimes it's best just to reply - "I hear you".

I've been adopting mother figures ever since I was a teenager. The scene where your T put her hand on your forehead sounds so beautiful and delightful. I would want to soak that in completely!

I see money as the big hidden theme in a lot of the discussion on this thread. And maybe that's because I'm hyper-attuned to class and class differences in our society, because I've lived among all levels of class and financial attainment.

(Born a zero, ward of the state, placed with a loving adoptive family at the poverty level, then placed with a middle class blue collar family (but mean and abusive), then attended college and achieved a graduate degree, and then worked as a white collar professional and now I'm executive-level and dual-income. So, I've seen it all and I've seen how being able to purchase one's caring can make a big difference in one's life. And I see my own new privilege where many others cannot see their own.)

I will confess to feeling somewhat envious of you, Growli, just because I feel like we have dealt with similar emotionally abusive environments but mine didn't come with any financial support.

It's ironic that your caring and loving T is being paid for by your mean mother. Even if you mother isn't paying because she cares, she is able to buy the caring for you that she herself was unwilling and unable to provide. Now, you could argue that if she'd been a good enough mother, she wouldn't have had to buy that caring to begin with!

The problem is that if the money shuts off, so does your T.

Or put another way, your connection to your T is dependent upon your connection to your mom. Money is the hidden thread in the triangle.

I wonder if it would be worth discussing with T some ways to extricate yourself from that web? Or if there is a way to qualify for scholarship or other support that does not come from toxic relations?

I'm sorry and I apologize if this post is too bold of a suggestion.

And I feel rejected again. This is really hard. I wish I could get her to just talk to me about this but I guess she doesn't want to get involved with it. But I feel like my heart just keeps getting broken over and over again.

I'm so sorry. Did something happen today that was particularly painful?

I am wondering the same.

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She was busy. That was it. She had a rough day with one of the other clients who started screaming at her. That triggered me on its own. I managed to talk to her enough to tell her that I'm scared of losing her. Everyone was talking about how the program will run through the holidays so the fact that she won't be there next week was already on my mind. I got all worked up when I told her how I felt and started bawling. She was a little frustrated and was kinda short with me and it was a mess. She told me she is overwhelmed and needs space.

And the thing is that I don't feel rejected. I don't feel like she hates me because of this. I recognize that I was being too much and she had been basically hounded all day. I should have been more empathetic. I got upset because whenever she puts up boundaries, I'm reminded me that she will never be my mother and I re-experience that loss. And it's really really painful. I cried so hard my nose started bleeding.

As much as I really don't want our relationship to change to a one a week setting, maybe it's for the best. Maintaining boundaries is just too difficult in this situation and I get led on by everything.

Growli, I'm so sorry. I can only imagine how frustrating all of this must be for you, especially with feeling that loss again.

Honestly, I think once a week might be a good thing. As hard and sad and frustrated and overwhelming it feels, after a while it will get easier to where you may not feel so attached or, rather, maternal feelings to her, which may even help you to grow.


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Growli: I have been reading your posts for a long time. I have kept quiet for one reason and one reason only: the way you "lash out" at certain responses triggers a certain amount anger in me. Not because I think you necessarily hurt people here but because I used to respond the same way to posts I didn't like/agree with for whatever the reason. So, I forced myself to take pause when I felt I was responding more out of anger.

So I have a few things to say:
1) I can't even begin to understand the pain and anger you live as a result of your upbringing as my parents were the complete opposite of yours.
2) I don't agree with all of your choices however I choose to accept you are doing the best you know how at this particular moment.
3) please remember that the majority of responses come from a place of compassion and possibly experience at least that is what I try now to remember when my impulse is to "lash out" in anger. However people will continue to support you despite your lashing out if that's not possible for you right now.

I wish you the best in your therapy journey and that you find some peace and healing along the way.


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I wrote something else where I tried to explain my behavior, but then again, I don't think I need an explanation because a) no one would care and b) what is so wrong about expressing anger? I feel like this society as a whole is so uncomfortable with anger. People get all upset when someone is heating up about something and they want that person to push it away. If I expressed any other emotion, people on here would be applauding me, but anger is intense and scary so therefore wrong. Personally, I love anger. It's a really raw emotion that is easy to access and very empowering when managed in a healthy way. I think writing an angry rant about how my mother failed me in response to someone telling me I had a mother is not me "lashing out". Lashing out would involve me yelling at asia in an inappropriate way that was cruel and hurtful and/or when I was really angry about something else. I did not attack anyone except my mother and my situation in general.

Also, what if I were actually angry at asia? Should I just keep that anger bottled up inside? I shouldn't be aggressive or mean, but if someone upsets me and I value having them as an ally, I'm not going to just hold onto that and hope it goes away or hope that person just picks up on it. I'm going to tell them directly how I feel so that maybe we can reach some sort of resolution. I'm not about making people play mind reader with me.

I know at the end of my rant, I apologized for being angry. But that's not really true. I only apologized because I knew people would react in this way to this and I wanted to be clear that I wasn't angry with anyone but my mother. But I'm really not sorry I ranted about my mother in a heated way. It was empowering to do it and if I feel compelled to do it again, I will because I'm not in the business of denying myself the simple pleasure of saying what I feel.

Maybe I'm immature for feeling the way I do about this topic, but hell, I'm 20 years old. I don't want to be totally mature yet. Maturity sounds boring. It sounds like waking up one morning and giving a damn about the stock market or sitting around with a cup of coffee and a suit, grumbling about the fiscal cliff. I don't want that. I want to be full of passion and anger. Why is there anything wrong with that?

Well I got the response I figured I would. Keep focusing on what you don't like and don't want to hear and making making excuses for why you can't or shouldn't do something and see how far that gets you.

I am truly sorry you have been hurt so badly you find it necessary lash out at people only trying to help you. You truly were a victim as a child however to use it as an excuse for poor and unnecessary behavior will only push everyone away. There are other ways to deal with anger besides lashing out which will prove far less toxic and harmful to relationships you may want to build or have to deal with. All emotions are okay and useful if properly handled.

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As long as you direct the anger where it's appropriate then go ahead. But lashing out at people who are trying to support you is not the appropriate channel - even if you are angry at them. Especially on a forum such as this, where you can safely assume that by default everyone on this site is dealing with some sort of mental health issue. Yelling at them or invalidating them when they are trying to be helpful may just trigger them too and make them feel worse. Their feelings and experiences need to be considered just as everyone else tries to consider yours.

There have been many times where the things that I've wanted to say, to both you and other users, would come off as way too harsh and upsetting. So I either spend the time to reword things so that it will be a bit easier to digest, or I refrain from posting. I don't respond in the heat of the moment precisely because I am aware of the fact that other people have issues of their own to deal with.

And I think one reason why lashing out in anger is not appropriate is because anger often leads to abusive behaviours - many of us on this site have been abused in multiple ways, so why contribute to that cycle? Feeling angry is totally fine. No one can help how they feel. But you can choose how to act.

Literally wasn't lashing out in any way shape or form. Like there was actually no conceivable way from that response that I feel could be interpreted as anger or aggression. I had an opinion and I expressed it. I have opinions not because I was mistreated as a child. I have opinions because I have a mind and I express them when I wish to just as I would had I had a perfect childhood.

I actually have a large network lovely friendships that are mutual, supportive, and complete healthy, because we can express opinions to each other even if they are negative and we disagree so we can work through them and grow together. Having disagreements and expressing them is good because the more you can understand someone else's opinion, the more opportunity you have to grow your own. Perhaps my relationship with my T is toxic, but that is a totally different situation. I don't have a boyfriend because I'm not ready to have one, but when I do, he and I (hopefully) will share the same type of mutual connection that I share with my friends. If he's angry with me, I'd like him to tell me how he feels and not bottle it up, making me guess. Of course, I don't want him to physically or verbally attack me, but there is a way to express a disagreement that isn't damaging to one's self esteem and I feel that I have been doing this here.

This post isn't me lashing out at you. This post is me standing up for myself by pointing out flaws in your assumption and any heat you detect from this comes from annoyance which is quite frankly appropriate considering the fact that if I say anything other than "yeah maybe you're right", people tell me that I'm lashing out in anger because I was abused as a child. Yet I'm the one who is apparently being dismissive of other people's opinions because I have a mind and I question everything I hear and I have a backbone and I'm willing to stand up for myself.

I appreciate your contribution as well as your sympathy and concern. I'm just curious as to how you would say someone should properly handle anger. Should I sit on it and hope it goes away? Should I complain behind people's backs to hopefully not offend whoever I'm upset with? How am I supposed to deal with anger? I'm not asking this because I think you're stupid or uninformed, I'm asking because I want to share a productive trade of ideas with someone I feel has shared somewhat similar issues around the same time because I've been reading your posts too (sui attempt within a few days of each other in August, not receiving adequate care afterwards, being in and out of the hospital, dealing with no SI contracts, etc). Granted, we have very marked differences but me saying I disagree isn't me calling you stupid, it's me saying I respect your opinion so let's discuss the differences.

You point blank declare in another post you've lashed out. I'm not getting into particulars because there will be only excuses for why you think it was ok. Take or leave what I have to say is totally up to u.

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As far as anger...for me I journal immediately. I do this because it gets all my thoughts and feelings out. Then I go exercise to near exhaustion. After that I go back and read my journal it won't change feelings but you may see a different way to approach an argument or whatever. Anger tends to make one less rational and therefore we don't necessarily see the whole picture and journal will allow for more clarity.

By the way I am very glad you have friendships and the like and that they are healthy. I never meant to imply you didn't.

Anger can be very healthy just watch where you direct it. You say you are standing up for yourself here but you are not being attacked so why the defense?

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Also I have read a lot about you needing to regulate your emotions. If you have truly been following my posts you know I recently started going to a DBT group. DBT is a type of therapy that was specifically designed for Borderline Personality Disorder. However, anyone that has trouble with emotions often finds it very helpful. Ask your therapist or caseworker about it she may know of a group near you it could prove very useful to you in terms of helping you manage your emotions. In the mean time if you want help feel free to PM me and I will help you the best I can.

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I'm in a DBT group already and I have been working with DBT both individually and in a group setting for several months now.

Sorry don't remember reading that. Are you finding it useful? I really hope so.

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I think it is excessively obvious and irritating. However, it pointing out the obvious and putting it in a neat little box can be helpful to access quickly despite me finding it irritating.

Well DBT is supposed to be the cats meow for BPD, so I hope you can retain and make useful what you learn and that the irritating part wears off.

Whats so obvious about DBT?....It seems like it must be really hard to practice on a dailey basis .. Or maybe that thought just hadn´t crossed your mind?

I couldn't not respond to this. DBT spends a lot of time explicitly teaching clients skills- crisis survival and distress tolerance skills, emotion regulation skills, interpersonal effectiveness skills. You learn them, you rehearse them, you receive in situ coaching to apply them. The idea is that you need to be taught these skills because if you didn't learn them growing up, they're not obvious. DBT also works on the premise that you are doing the best you can with what you have- i.e. if you had these skills, you would be using them. Self harming, suicide attempts, flying into a rage with others etc. are the result of not having better skills to manage our own distress or our relationships. If everything you've learnt in DBT is obvious, why weren't you doing it before? What about it irritates you? I hope you can hear these for the sincere questions which they are.

Is it that you knew what to do, but couldn't apply it in moments of high emotional arousal? Is it that you knew, and could have applied it, but there were higher secondary gains from the harmful behaviours you were using, which meant you weren't motivated to act skilfully? I'm asking as someone whose life was saved by DBT, but also as a psychologist who spends a lot of time explaining to adults that if the teenagers I see could manage more skillfully, they would.