What are the appropriate boundaries inside and outside of Therapy

To be fair I actually said that the hotel scenario DOES cross appropriate boundaries, what I was trying to say was that simply driving together in a car does not in my opinion. Basically unless it is a few hours away or less it is hard to go there together without crossing any boundaries, I have sort of found away around that but I won't get into it (its not taboo or anything but I don't want to get into any more of a heated argument).

I didn't mean that at all! I'm sorry if that's what you got from my post. Your opinion is very important but it's something you need to discuss with your T. I can't imagine that an ethical, professional T would encourage your doing these things together, even in a group. I understand that YOU think this scenario would not be crossing boundaries, but your T would probably think otherwise. Like, in a sense, I still think it was okay for me to drive by my T's house, but she doesn't think so. It doesn't matter what my opinion is; it's HER feelings that are important when it comes to HER boundaries. I don't think an ethical T would put herself into an intimate situation like you're talking about.

There was a group tour I went on, and it was possible that my former T could have gone too. It would have been intimate. She said she was not going, and I think she also said that she wouldn't go if I were going. It would have caused too many boundary issues.

I hope you talk about this issue with your new T right away so you don't get hurt.

That is an interesting point of view because an old friend of mine from High School is studying to be a dentist right now and have always said that after he is done and I am in need of a dentist if my current one goes somewhere else (I probably wouldn't leave that dentist if they are still around), I would very much want him to become my new dentist since I think that I would trust him to work with my teeth more that almost anyone else who is a dentist (and of course defiantly more than anyone else who is not ).

Thanks for that, I know that I over-think things too much (and it is not just with Therapy it is with almost everything I do in life) but it is all part of my disorder.

The person who I did the intake with even told me that she tries to stay away from intimate gatherings for that reason, but I said why they are a great experience in life for some.

My question to you Rterroni- why are you so interested in interaction outside of the T room? I think maybe, as you embark on your new T journey, focusing on your interaction with your T inside of his/her office, and the issues that brought you to the T in the first place, will probably be the best option. If outside interaction occurs, then you should establish those boundaries. That is what T and I have done along the way (his kids go to the small school that I teach at). We have established boundaries, and then have reassessed along the way.

I think you are right, I guess I was so upset that my last Therapist decided to terminate me since I got too into detail with those things, I just want my next Therapist to be able to work with me on that.

Unless I am mistaken she terminated after you told her that you found out information about her? Perhaps this time try talking about these scenarios that are going on through your head, and why you want to know this information about them. I'm not saying your t should or should not have terminated, but I think this would be a way to not have it happen again for the same reason.

No it was after I kept going on about my boundary issues, she really didn't care much that I found out information about her.

Sorry - I remember you saying something a little different. I still think that it would help to talk about what you think. That doesn't meant that there will be an agreement on things, but then you can work through why it is important to you. Regardless, I wish you luck.

While you are of course entitled to your opinion, it's also necessary to realize that your opinion will not be shared by most Ts, nor in most instances. It appeared that your insistence on this viewpoint caused difficulties in your last T relationship. This is clearly an issue you need to explore, but it would be more helpful if you approached it from the perspective of figuring out why it's so important to you, rather than from a position of changing your T's mind.

I am not trying to change my Therapists point of view, I just want them to accept mine, and I remember that you were the one that told me that discussing appropriate boundaries outside of Therapy isn't so much about if you will actually meet outside of Therapy in real life but rather how you view the Therapist-Client relationship.

I've been to gatherings (retreats) where a group of people were together for the weekend to discuss common interests and beliefs, so I think it was probably similar to a Christian retreat. I think that a therapist wouldn't go to an event like that if their client was going to be there. At that type of event, getting to know the other participants and having intimate conversations about your beliefs was really encouraged. So it would be really against the rules for a therapist to have that much interaction with a client outside of therapy.

I hope your therapist will work with you on it too. I'm worried about whether a therapist might be afraid to work with you. If they know you have a strong desire to interact with them outside of therapy, they might be afraid I think. Or they might think the therapy isn't good for you.

I hope you find a therapist who will not be afraid so they can help you understand why interacting outside therapy isn't a good idea. I think they could help you find a relationship that is more fulfilling in your real life instead.

Like feralkittymom said, if you are telling them you are trying to understand it, I think they'd be more likely to help. If you try to change your therapist's mind, I think they'd be more likely to terminate.

I think when you come here on PC, you are really trying to understand it, which is good. So I hope your therapist can tell that you are really trying to learn to understand it.

I wrote my last post before I read this post. So I didn't mean to bring up changing your therapist's mind again after you said you don't want to change your therapist's mind.

I am confused what you mean now though, so I'll make another post.

I don't think that at all especially if it is something you were both planning on going to, and it doesn't have to be religious it could just be something that you are going to to embrace your alternative lifestyle (such as the burning man festival) in other words the rules of society there are significantly different than out in the rest of the world. Basically the Therapist-Client relationship is put to the side for those couple of days in favor of something much more greater.

I want to look at this question from another direction. If boundaries were used against a person in the past, to exclude you - i experienced this a lot growing up - then i wanted to make sure i wasnt going to be the victim of boundaries again. I know all about being excluded - what i am uncomfortable with, and what i need real life lessons in, is being included. I didnt even feel included in the t room. Every session for a couple of years, i was afraid to look at the shelves, and i thought, those toys are not for me, they are for other kids. So i would ask, what is the basis of this feeling?

I thought this all the time growing up.

I stopped before i finished my thought! So all your what-ifs sound like me when i started with my current t. I ran into him maybe a total of 5 times just outside the office building over the past 6 years, and each time has been a 100% improvement over the previous time, to where now i am practically normal with him, and he almost looks awkward! But really all the work is done in the office - these are more like pop quizzes.

I'm confused. If you and the therapist have opposite points of view about whether it is okay for a therapist and client to interact outside of therapy, then it seems like you would be trying to change the therapist's point of view. I'm not sure. Is that what you mean? You want the therapist to agree that a therapist and client could interact outside of therapy?

I don't think they can. I don't know if I can explain why. I think you want to be able to interact outside of therapy because you like the therapist, almost like a friend. There's nothing wrong with wishing the therapist could be a friend.

But they can't really be a friend because they are paid to talk to us, so they act differently than if they weren't paid. When they are being paid, they try to help us the whole time. They don't tell us their problems because that would distract us from being helped with our own problems.

If they weren't being paid, they'd have to decide if they like us and want to spend time with us as a friend. They'd have to tell us their problems too, the way friends do. Then once we got to know them, we wouldn't be focusing on only our own problems anymore, the way we are supposed to during therapy. It might seem like you want to help them with their problems too, but that's not what therapy is supposed to be. It's supposed to try to help you find someone else, not your therapist, to do things with.

No I am not saying that your Therapist should be your friend at all but if you were to attend an intimate gathering together than you are both there for a very specific reason so you should embrace it, basically you take the Therapist and Client glasses off when you get there and put on other glasses (obviously I don't mean this in a literal sense) that are appropriate for the gathering, and when you leave you put the Therapist and Client glasses back on. It is not about discussing anyones problems but rather about embracing the unique lifestyle that you both have (which is why you would be at the gathering in the first place)

I think that might be considered a dual relationship. As that scenario could describe a lot of different situations. And so by definition is unethical.

I would say that it borders on it but it doesn't since in most intimate gatherings the normal rules of society are dumped in favor of other rules specific to the gathering.

Have you ever been to such a gathering where the "t-client relationship" is put aside for the sake of the intimate nature of the group, or is this hypothetical? You state it as though it were a fact. Just because YOU want to set aside your role as client, it doesn't mean the T would set aside HER role as T. Do you understand what I mean?

Again, I think your T is the best one to discuss this scenario with, not us. I identify with you; I'm not trying to be critical. I would like to be with my T in an intimate setting too, and set aside the normal T-client rules. An ethical T will not put herself in such a setting with a client.

The problem I see--and maybe I'm misunderstanding you--is that you aren't comfortable with agreeing to disagree. You say you want the T to accept your way of viewing the relationship, but what does that acceptance look like? Can the T make space for the existance of your opinion, while maintaining an opposite view, and acting in accordance with that, and it be ok with you?

I do believe exploring boundaries is about the relationship in the room and about how that relationship echoes past relationships. But that can only happen when the in the room relationship is protected and circumscribed. During the time period of therapy, the T is a T, whether physically in the consultation room or outside of it. Some Ts believe that they are always a T to their clients past the end of therapy even if therapy will never be engaged in again. I would put my T in that group, despite our continued contact. The boundaries have changed, but the relationship is still boundaried. So I expect while a T should be happy to engage with you talking about boundaries, I would also expect them to see that as separate from any changes in actions.

I have never been to a gathering where my Therapist was there but I have been to gatherings where I believe that should be the case.

Also I don't necessarily agree with the bolded part since at a gathering like that she is not really your Therapist in that situation (the progressive fading line between Therapist and Client that I have mentioned before is completely gone by the time you get to that point), if you happen to have an intense interest in something that most of the rest of society does not (even in some cases looks down upon) why not embrace it together.

I think that I try to respect my Therapists point of view as much as possible, for instance I didn't agree with my Therapists point of view on a solid line between Therapist and Client outside of Therapy but I respected it.