Regard.

I was talking to my T this week about how I feel as if there is no reason to feel good about myself when I am not in T or when we have a break. T asked me if I feel that everything between us is lost when I do not see her? I replied yes!

She then said would it help if I knew she held me in regard when I am not there? I was to embarrassed to answer, but yes it would help.

Why is it that we need someone else to hold us in regard and that we/I cannot find this healthy self love? I feel that something is missing most times, and t asked me what I thought that something was? I think now I realise it is love.

I do not love myself. I seem to have internalised my whole dysfunctional upbringing and still it plays out inside. Any tips on how to start to dare to develop this self love and self trust? As I fear myself most days as I am unpredictable.

((((((((((((( Mouse ))))))))))))))

I do not have an answer for you, but I want to let you know I care.

Take care,

Jan

It's a process, you will learn to regard yourself as your T does, it just takes time. T's are "mirrors" and I just made a decision to automatically accept what mine said about me as "true" and waited until I was able to see it too. It's wonderful, like waiting for a present It does show up and you know it's coming so waiting and looking for it gave me lots of hope and that helped me work hard.

For me its not a necessity that my therapist to think of me and so on during the time we are not together. I think thats because I know that therapists are supposed to leave work at the office that way they have a life of their own outside of their clients and are less likely to burn out. Its kind of like having a friend that is constantly in crisis. Or when my real time group is running. I need that time away from that friends and the groups problems otherwise I would be a total wreck worrying and taking care of them instead of me.

On the other end as a client it does feel nice when my therapist does let me know she has been thinking of me for example one day when she was driving in to the therapy agency she knew she was seeing me that day and was thinking about a poem of mine and just this past week when calling me to scedule my appointment she said on the machine she had said the words " I've been thinking about you".

For me its not a necessity to hear those words but it does make me smile, cause it shows therapy wise she cares about me and what I am doing to fix my problems.

How did I learn self care outside the therapy room - well a therapist told me that therapy is a person talking and brainstorming and learning new tools in the therapy room but it is also using those things done in therapy sessions outside therapy too. A person sees there therapist for one hour a week out of 168 hours a week.

By my paying $100.00 a week and then not applying what I am learning in therapy to make my life outside of therapy to make it better. I am basically only using about $0.60 cents a week of that $100.00 a week that I am paying for therapy ($100.00 per week divide by 168 hours that there are in a week) by not using the self help tools and taking care of mysef ouside of therapy I was basically waving goodbye to $99.40 of my hard earned money each week.

throwing away $99.40 cents a week definately put it in perspective for me.

If my therapist suggested taking a warm bath before bed to help relax I did it, if my therapist wanted me to write in my journal I did it.. If my therapist wanted me to find one positive thing to do for myself that week outside of the therapy room I did it. If my therapist asked me to during the week we were not together brainstorm some solutions for a problem that I was having just like we did during my therapy sessions I did it.

I was no longer going to throw away $99.40 just because she was not in my outside of therapy life.

I now knew If I wanted to get better I was the one that had to do the work both in therapy and outside of therapy or I am the one that loses out of both sanity and money.

And now my therapy money is being used above and beyond.

A person can learn self love and self care just by taking the things they are learning in the therapy room and applying it to their owside of the therapy room life.

Anytime your therapist suggest something to talk about or do carry that over to your outside of the therapy room.

Journaling, relaxation techniques, looking at problems step by step and looking for solutions and so on can be done at home as well as in the therapy room.

Exactly Perna!

Yes, to know someone thinks of us or is concerned about us even when we aren't in their presence makes us feel valued. Humans need that

It is about internalising a good object (person). One notion is that when mothers mirror (validate / soothe) their infants that leads to secure attachment where the infant feels safe and happy in the mothers presence... Then later the infant internalises the object and can comfort themself in her absence by thinking about the mother and the infant has always experienced her coming back too...

Therapy is a little like that all over again. It can be hard to self soothe when one doesn't have an internalised good object... People can experience seperation anxiety where they are afraid that the good object will disappear when out of sight or never come back.

On the upside... I think it is meant to take some time, but it will get better. Do you know her well enough to have imaginary conversations with her in your head? I know I went through a phase of doing that... When I was having a hard time I would imagine what I thought she would say... Also transitional objects like a tape of her reading relaxation stuff or something like that can help too...

Hang in there.

HI, thanks for all replys.

I've been with this t for just over 2 yrs. At times I feel that its not allowed to "use" my t in a soothing way. Not from her point off view, but from mine. Just the fact that I still need her so much sets me of being very self critical.

I am an adult adoptee among other things so find separation anxiety a big struggle. I just can't get past the "trusting" enought in myself to have the confidence that she isn't going to go away if I allow myelf to use her until I am grown enought myself.

I'm afraid of dependency too. I don't think I ever attached particularly to my Mother, but I surely attached to my Father, and then he left when I was 7. I'm fairly frightened of attachment now. I'm especially terrified of dependency. It can feel really vulnerable and exposed and powerless to depend on someone especially when one has had experience with people betraying your trust and / or leaving.

The self critical thing can be hard... Sometimes our inner critic is trying to protect us from being vulnerable, though. It is trying to save us from more hurt later.

I know it is really hard... But working through some of the fears of dependency can really help with respect to generalising that back to outside therapy relationships...

Could you talk to her about how you feel about feeling dependent?

Yes as I posted my reply this morning I realised I had worded what it is that I need to say to her. As she is always telling me, talking about these things, change them!. So true, takes the fear out off them and also the urgency.

Thanks again all, for letting me work this out safely here first :-)

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mouse_ said:
I am an adult adoptee among other things so find separation anxiety a big struggle. I just can't get past the "trusting" enought in myself to have the confidence that she isn't going to go away if I allow myelf to use her until I am grown enought myself.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Mouse, my mother died when I was three, was seriously ill all my life. My father's nickname for me was literally "Little Mouse." My stepmother and I were not a good match for one another. I know just what you mean about the dependence thing; hang in there -- I was in therapy off and on for almost 30 years. It all gets better/worth while. Try to let yourself "be" and just concentrate on working with your T instead of criticizing yourself so much is what I did.

Thanks Perna..I am taking a lot of hope from all off ((you))

Hi, well I talked about some off the stuff that I talked about here...I feel very uncomfortable knowing that I have to go back friday after having opened the gates to talking about closer to heart stuff...does anyone understand transferance completely? I mean when I got home I had to ask myself why would I want to be with my T more than my family (hubby and 3 kids) then it got me thinking that these transferrence feelings have got to be old earliest memorys surely?....is this what "working through" them means? that as we explore the feelings I will come to see that they belong in a time long gone? they are feelings a young baby has for their caregiver??...and does having this knowledge take the power away??

I don't know but I've had the same fear. I realize that I'm doing some transferrance with my counselor but I'm not entirely sure who he is replacing. I just know that I'm having strong emotions and I'm going to miss going next week.

Also, he mentioned that he does object relations therapy, and so like a dummy I looked that up and it gave step by step instructions of what the counselor is to do and now I'm thinking. . .how can it work if I know the "trick" to it. But I'm just going to trust him and try not to think about it. (hopefully!)

I find that the more I open up and trust him, the more things in my "real' life make sense. When I sent him a copy of my journal that helped a lot, sharing really personal stuff without having to say it. . . helped me to be able to open up and talk about it our next visit.

Good feelings towards your T doesn't have to be only transference. Who doesn't like someone who listens, pays attention, communicates, gives you undivided interest, opens the door for you, welcomes you back... etc?!

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_Sky said:
Good feelings towards your T doesn't have to be only transference. Who doesn't like someone who listens, pays attention, communicates, gives you undivided interest, opens the door for you, welcomes you back... etc?!

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Hey good point!! He's just really a nice guy in general. I just have issues with positive attention from men sometimes. I tend to attach it to things I shouldn't so I just have to be careful to classify it properly if that makes sense.

I mean, when I had a woman counselor I really was very fond of her also, but it was just slightly different. I also would miss her on vacations to though.

> how can it work if I know the "trick" to it.

Because if therapy was just a matter of thinking the right thoughts and being cured surely we would have figured it out well before now...

Therapy is a process...

Many a time I've sat there thinking 'I know what you are trying to do (I know what that technique is about) and it is NOT going to work' and you know what? It works anyways.

Sometimes it isn't that repeating things to ourself 'I am a good person' is going to help...
It is more that somethings can't really be grasped when they are SAID instead they need to be SHOWN.
If t treats us like we are worthy of respect and like they like us and like we are loveable...
It is much easier to feel good about oneself than if one did affirmations...

I think it is the EXPERIENCES in therapy that are most important.

PS... There is one hell of a lot to object relations therapy. It could help your therapy if you read more about it (if you would like) I personally don't think that information harms the process. Sometimes it helps me to read about theraputic techniques and stuff like that because then I know something of what my t likely INTENDS their effects to be (ie most people respond well to this even though I'm finding it upsetting t is well intentioned because most people respond well) etc.

Melanie Klein springs to mind...

I think OR theory originates from her though modern stuff would probably run a bit differently (like modern Freudians have diverted a bit from Freud).

Cool then I'll give myself permission to look it up more. I am fascinated by counseling. I wish I'd finished at least a BS degree, I think some day I'd love to become a therapist, once I work through some of my baggage.

It's a strange thing finding a counselor that I can even tell the negative stuff to. I told him our last visit that every time in the last three visits I left bawling and felt like crap for 3 days after and I'd had it and I called my sister in law to tell her I wasn't going to pay someone to mess me up for half the week any more. She convinced me that this was actually progress, and I shared all that with him. He sort of laughed. I think it must be so common for people to feel that way.

Oh I have to tell you guys another funny story. I have been very up front with hubby about how I'm feeling with my counselor feeling like I "miss" him this week and all that. He's pretty secure in how I feel for him and knows how people get in counseling. He's in counseling with a woman presently.

OK, so there's this commercial I think it's Miller Lite and they start off giving these guy "rules" and start out talking about how "it's OK for a man to drive a hybrid car if. . ." and it trails off but I said to hubby "you know, there's always this hybrid SUV out front of the office when I go and I wonder if that's my counselor's SUV or someone else's. For some reason I am always curious what kind of car my T drives. He only comes to this office one day a week.

So hubby goes "that's easy, drive by there on another day of the week and if it's not there, you know that's his vehicle." I was like "no way, I'm NOT going to STALK my counselor!"

DH just shrugs and says. . "OK, I'll drive by there then, now you have me curious" and Im like. . no WAY! you're NOT going to stalk my counselor. ROTFL.

I said if I wanted to know that badly I would just ask him myself!

Great, now I'm going to have to tell him this story next time I'm in.

Dang, he's making me feel like Bill Murray in "What about Bob".

I think... That there is a lot of controversy as to how things are supposed to go...

Is your discomfort about feeling vulnerable? To feel attached can be scary because one is trusting the person and if one has been hurt by people you have attached to in the past...

Therapy is about you. Focusing on you and your needs and what is best for you etc. Family can be harder because they have needs too and sometimes we need to set aside our needs for their needs... I think it is understandable that someone would like seeing their t because it is all about your needs...

I think working through the feelings is about... Being able to grieve for past hurts / needs not being met. To experience attachment with t and for it to become secure... To be able to internalise the caring and regard and develop an internal representation of it so you are better able to feel kindly towards yourself and self soothe and have this positive regard to other people and the world in general. I don't think that rationally knowing about where the feelings are coming from takes the power away but it can help to understand that the feelings are understandable. I think the process is what helps.

I tried to read up on stuff so I could fix myself because I was having trouble finding a t. Reading helped. But rational knowledge is one thing and emotional experience can be quite another...

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alexandra_k said:
Is your discomfort about feeling vulnerable? To feel attached can be scary because one is trusting the person and if one has been hurt by people you have attached to in the past...

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Yeah that's probably it. Most times I get attached to someone I just get hurt. The only exception is my husband and some of my family. I'm very blessed to have a husband that loves me no matter what. We make each other crazy but we'd both be completely lost without the other.

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Family can be harder because they have needs too and sometimes we need to set aside our needs for their needs... I think it is understandable that someone would like seeing their t because it is all about your needs...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Ah-hah! That makes sense!
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I tried to read up on stuff so I could fix myself because I was having trouble finding a t. Reading helped. But rational knowledge is one thing and emotional experience can be quite another...

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I tried that too. Funny how it doesn't really work. LOL

But I have fooled one or two counselors into thinking I'm perfectly OK because I know what they want to hear. For some reason I haven't been able to or haven't wanted to do that with this one. That's a good thing. What's the point of paying someone to reassure you that you're really OK, if inside you know you're really not? Duh! LOL

Alexendra. I agree with you, knowing and experiencing are 2 different ball games...I think for me maybe, stuff is already happened and then I become aware off the change, eg, I am begining to feel toward people outside of t now where as before I didn't..so maybe thats why I am seeing how attached I was too t because now its safe to feel outside off t......I realised last night, that that warm fuzzy feeling I get inside when with T I am begining to get toward any human now...I'm not so quick to Judge them and decide my liking on them on whatever judgement I come too..I am begining to just enjoy someone because off the feeling I get inside and I can see their postives as well...I'm amazed how this stuff really works :-) I want more LOL!

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mouse_ said:
I am begining to just enjoy someone because off the feeling I get inside and I can see their postives as well...I'm amazed how this stuff really works :-) I want more LOL!

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Wow that sounds so GREAT to me! Good for you!

It's hard to trust yourself to feel but the rewards are worth it.