[Yearning0723]

Apparently, the consensus on this board is that therapy can help some people sometimes if they have the right mindset and the right therapist. Having had several unhelpful therapists and one helpful therapist who is becoming significantly less helpful as time passes, I agree with this completely. I guess what I need in a therapist is less someone to explain why I act the way I act and throw out psychological theories (because I know all this stuff already; I'm already way too analytical and read too many books on attachment theory) but more someone who can care about me and be with me as I sift through some really painful emotions and experiences and who can potentially provide some sort of corrective attachment experience.

I have no idea whether this is really possible; ideally, a therapist wouldn't be the one to fill this role, but this is where I'm at, and I think maybe a therapist is only the one really capable of it, although most aren't. But for me, therapy is also an issue, so much so that I'm doubting its effectiveness. "Good" therapy will create maternal transference, which will then become an obsession, which will then undermine my ability to form other relationships with people other than the therapist. But without therapy, I will form unhealthy transference-y relationships with people who can't handle it.

"Good" therapy will make me hyper-aware of emotions and boundaries and ways of speaking that are really only appropriate in the therapy room, which will undermine my ability to form healthy relationships with others on an interpersonal level rather than an analytical one (sometimes I find myself playing therapist to my friends and even if they don't mind it, I cringe). But without therapy, I can't form relationships, period. Therapy has made me doubt my competence in forming relationships and has made me feel really pathological in my attachment style. But my attachment style actually is pathological. I can't fix it without therapy, but therapy is making it even more complicated and making relationships even harder.

If I had a support system and people I could talk to and trust, I probably wouldn't need therapy. But I can't have those people and that support system until I fix my issues, which will take therapy. But therapy is also preventing me from fixing my issues, at least in the short run, and magnifying those issues. So part of me is just like, "Screw it, what's the point?" But if not therapy, then what???

[Leah123]

You could try support groups: I gained a lot from them, though it was intense. I also gained immensely from volunteering and joining a peer community center when I was about your age. It was for queer youth, and I volunteered on a talkline for youth as well- they were all really empowering, healing experiences.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by Leah123

You could try support groups: I gained a lot from them, though it was intense. I also gained immensely from volunteering and joining a peer community center when I was about your age. It was for queer youth, and I volunteered on a talkline for youth as well- they were all really empowering, healing experiences.

Thanks for this, Leah. I do volunteering and I love it - especially working with kids. And I have some support-ish type groups at my school that I go to every week (for queer students).

But part of me is like, what I really want from a therapist is a) undivided attention (which is maybe not a good thing and maybe not something I need, but definitely something I desire) and b) attachment. Or even something a therapist will never be able to give me, which is love. Or I guess I want a therapist to help me get to the place where I will no longer need that kind of love. I guess for me, a therapist is the safest place to channel that attachment urge, since with other adults like teachers, it has never ended well.

Then again, it hasn't ended well with my therapist, either...

[Leah123]

My volunteering was with peers and that made a big difference, a more reciprocal relationship was enabled and I gained more insight into the similarities and beauties of my peers.

Also, I was referring to structured AA type support groups, sorry I wasn't clear- they had a lot of tools and practices that were helpful.

Still, if what you're looking for is, as you say, undivided attention, attachment, and love (definitely possible, my therapist loves me) you may just need a different therapist. You're right, hard to find that specifically outside of therapy, though I've had some good experiences with mentors and teachers, but certainly not at the same level of depth.

You know, sometimes finding a good therapist just takes a few tries. I've seen five in my life now, two were wonderful, three, not. And one of those two, I could only see for a few months, so sometimes it's just a matter of keeping trying.

Also, just wait til you fall in love, you're going to find a lot of that attachment and love and attention that you want. Not in the same way as therapy, but a stabilizing, healing way too. Choosing to fall in love was one of the best things I ever did for my mental health.

[Favorite Jeans]

Sometimes you just have to keep living and learning and gathering experiences and gaining the kind of perspective that only time can give you. Therapy helps but so does plain old growing up. It sounds to me like you're overthinking this, mapping out the pitfalls of every possible course of action.

Whatever you do is going to involve messiness and pain and mistakes. You just can't avoid all pain. But you'll learn from all of it and it will almost certainly get easier. Having seen and experienced stuff before makes it all a little less raw and a little less overwhelming the next time around.

I say this without condescension--just offering you the benefit of experience. The really intense maternal transference will only likely affect your real life relationships temporarily. It won't supplant all your healthy friendships and romantic relationships long term.

I think you really got to the core of the issue when you identified that what you most need is someone to care about you and be with you as you sift through all this painful stuff. If you haven't yet, you'll find that therapist, she's out there for you! With that clarity of purpose I think you'll probably get what you need from your therapy experiences. Living, working, and participating in the world will help you where therapy can't.

(Also I second what Leah said about how sometimes it takes a while to find the right T. I've seen over 20 therapists and psychiatrists in my life (some just once though) and only a few of them stand out as having been really great.)

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by Leah123

My volunteering was with peers and that made a big difference, a more reciprocal relationship was enabled and I gained more insight into the similarities and beauties of my peers.

Also, I was referring to structured AA type support groups, sorry I wasn't clear- they had a lot of tools and practices that were helpful.

Still, if what you're looking for is, as you say, undivided attention, attachment, and love (definitely possible, my therapist loves me) you may just need a different therapist. You're right, hard to find that specifically outside of therapy, though I've had some good experiences with mentors and teachers, but certainly not at the same level of depth.

You know, sometimes finding a good therapist just takes a few tries. I've seen five in my life now, two were wonderful, three, not. And one of those two, I could only see for a few months, so sometimes it's just a matter of keeping trying.

Also, just wait til you fall in love, you're going to find a lot of that attachment and love and attention that you want. Not in the same way as therapy, but a stabilizing, healing way too. Choosing to fall in love was one of the best things I ever did for my mental health.

I've seen six different therapists thus far in my nineteen years...none were helpful, although one might have been helpful if I'd stuck it out with her and been willing to do the work. But it was CBT, so it probably wouldn't have solved the problem, and I was only fifteen, so I can be excused for my lack of effort. I didn't want to learn how to change my thoughts and behaviors. I really just wanted that T to be my mom.

I have a mentor that I just met today, actually, but we're embarking on that relationship...but my fear is maybe that I'm using therapy as a crutch. I feel like I won't be able to handle this relationship maturely and appropriately without more therapy. (Possibly because former teacher/mentor told me I was using her as a therapist and she would have to end our relationship if I didn't go back to seeing a therapist. I went back to seeing a therapist. She ended our relationship anyway.) I'm scared that I wouldn't be able to handle a romantic relationship without a lot more therapy, but I feel like therapy is also what's stopping me from entering that relationship, because it's making me feel way more screwed up than I actually am. I mean, I feel really, really screwed up. I always have, though - I think even before I started serious therapy.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Sometimes you just have to keep living and learning and gathering experiences and gaining the kind of perspective that only time can give you. Therapy helps but so does plain old growing up. It sounds to me like you're overthinking this, mapping out the pitfalls of every possible course of action.

Whatever you do is going to involve messiness and pain and mistakes. You just can't avoid all pain. But you'll learn from all of it and it will almost certainly get easier. Having seen and experienced stuff before makes it all a little less raw and a little less overwhelming the next time around.

I say this without condescension--just offering you the benefit of experience. The really intense maternal transference will only likely affect your real life relationships temporarily. It won't supplant all your healthy friendships and romantic relationships long term.

I think you really got to the core of the issue when you identified that what you most need is someone to care about you and be with you as you sift through all this painful stuff. With that clarity of purpose I think you'll probably get what you need from your therapy experiences. Living, working, and participating in the world will help you where therapy can't.

I overthink everything, and I feel like therapy has made this worse.

And the maternal transference has destroyed some of the best relationships in my life...it has been there as long as I can remember, jumping from one teacher/mentor figure to another. It destroyed the best chance I had for someone who would really truly care about me. She did, until she saw how much I needed her, and had to remind me that she had her own kids and I wasn't one of them. It broke my heart.

[Yearning0723]

Maybe my goal in therapy this time around should be to accept myself the way I am instead of trying to fix myself (and pathologize myself in the process), and not to worry about whether every single little thing I do is wrong, or natural, or whether it stems from attachment issues, or if it's normal or not...and maybe how to accept other people caring about me without worrying all the time about screwing it up. If a T could care about me and stick it out for the long haul, that would probably help a lot...

[HazelGirl]

Therapy is painful and difficult. No one does it because it's easy or feels good. They do it because eventually, when all is said and done, we will be a little but more whole and emotionally stable. But the journey does suck. I believe that therapy works for 90% of those that truly participate.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

Maybe my goal in therapy this time around should be to accept myself the way I am instead of trying to fix myself (and pathologize myself in the process), and not to worry about whether every single little thing I do is wrong, or natural, or whether it stems from attachment issues, or if it's normal or not...and maybe how to accept other people caring about me without worrying all the time about screwing it up. If a T could care about me and stick it out for the long haul, that would probably help a lot...

This is extremely important!

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

This is extremely important!

That's pretty sad though, that I would need to pay someone to care about me and stick it out with me and prevent me from pathologizing myself...

[blur]

i think there are a lot of things besides therapy that help. here are some things that have helped me:

adult children of alcoholics--a 12-step program for anyone from a dysfunctional family, not just an alcoholic one
journaling
inner healing classes (this is like internal family systems therapy)
soaking prayer
art journaling--which i've just started doing and am taking an amazing class
getting out and having fun and not focusing so much on my problems
volunteering and the perspective that brings

other ideas:

exercise
massage
get a spiritual director

yearning, i think it is good to ask yourself what has helped in your life and pursue more of that, or just really get honest and think about what you need rather than what you want. i'll admit that i think looking for someone to love you like a mom is probably not going to work at all. as i understand it one of the main tasks of therapy is to grieve our losses rather than to try to get the T to be who you didn't have in real life. those are two very different ways of approaching therapy and the latter really doesn't work because it is not therapy's purpose. also, i believe those sorts of mentor/mother-types of relationships work best when they happen organically rather than you trying to create them. personally, i think you might benefit a lot from a DBT class.

[HazelGirl]

I don't think it's sad if you've never gotten that before. Children are supposed to get it from their parents. If they don't, they need it later in life. One way to get that is through therapy. Yes, there are alternatives. But therapy is the most direct way to deal with those problems and deficiencies from childhood, with someone who is trained to handle them.

[stopdog]

I find therapy an interesting experiment. I can't point to anything I think it has helped me with that sounds like help that others describe. I have learned some techniques that seem to work on students and alleviating some of their distress.
I believe for some things, time alone helps. Exercise, self-care, volunteering and hobbies can help some people. Therapy seems to sometimes help some people. Sometimes different combinations of things help.

[elliemay]

Do something that scares you just a little every single day and do something different every single day. Something you would ordinarily never do.

I mean I'm not talking something destructive, but something that could turn out really really good.

You might be surprised at how much that one little thing can change your life for the better.

[Yearning0723]

It just feels like a dead end. Therapy can't fix it. Nothing can fix it. I have spent the past year or so doing everything I can to get my life together - immersing myself in school (which I love), meeting new people, volunteering, joining groups at school, trying new things, earning some money, doing some writing, working on setting boundaries with family, and yes, therapy. And I thought I had my life together. But then I realized a few weeks ago that I really don't - it was just an illusion.

I don't need a T who will be "mom" to me, but I do need a T who will care about me and not fear my attachment to her. But I think maybe some wounds just never heal...therapists exist to help give you insight, but I already have too much insight - that's my problem. And I'm not ready to do some CBT work to change the behaviors that I can't just change through insight. So then the reductive answer seems to be that I just want a T who will listen and care. Which may help, but is also pretty pathetic...

With old T, I never had to worry about whether "treatment" actually meant "treatment" or whether it was just perpetuating my neediness...with new T, this could easily happen.

And the funny thing is, I would be ready to leave old T if she would give me something to hold onto - a kind word, or just something so I can have fond memories of her and end it on a good note instead of a disappointing one (ex. I failed).

[HazelGirl]

I know what you mean about the "smokescreen of normalcy". I had it in my life until I started going to therapy, and realized how messed up I really was. I kind of freaked out because I thought I had done a good job of rising above that, of handling my past better than that, and of not being like one of "those" people who are really messed up and have tons of life-long struggles because of their past. Yeah, what was really going on was that I pretended things were okay. And that allowed me to become outwardly "successful" while inwardly falling apart to the point of being suicidal.

Can you trust your T to know how to heal you? Therapy isn't just about insight. I also have a ton of insight. Therapy is about experiencing a different relationship that shows you and teaches you that things can be different. You can learn how to adequately convey your wants and needs. You can learn to relate to others as equals. You can learn to have a truly happy life. But you have to trust that your T knows what she is doing.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

It just feels like a dead end. Therapy can't fix it. Nothing can fix it. I have spent the past year or so doing everything I can to get my life together - immersing myself in school (which I love), meeting new people, volunteering, joining groups at school, trying new things, earning some money, doing some writing, working on setting boundaries with family, and yes, therapy. And I thought I had my life together. But then I realized a few weeks ago that I really don't - it was just an illusion.

I don't need a T who will be "mom" to me, but I do need a T who will care about me and not fear my attachment to her. But I think maybe some wounds just never heal...therapists exist to help give you insight, but I already have too much insight - that's my problem. And I'm not ready to do some CBT work to change the behaviors that I can't just change through insight. So then the reductive answer seems to be that I just want a T who will listen and care. Which may help, but is also pretty pathetic...

With old T, I never had to worry about whether "treatment" actually meant "treatment" or whether it was just perpetuating my neediness...with new T, this could easily happen.

And the funny thing is, I would be ready to leave old T if she would give me something to hold onto - a kind word, or just something so I can have fond memories of her and end it on a good note instead of a disappointing one (ex. I failed).

Sounds like you're in a huge rush, a constant place of judgement and analysis, never at rest. Try to realize that things just take time. The 'nothing is helping/nothing will help' feeling.... give it time. Time is a critical component in healing, in having a good life.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by Leah123

Sounds like you're in a huge rush, a constant place of judgement and analysis, never at rest. Try to realize that things just take time. The 'nothing is helping/nothing will help' feeling.... give it time. Time is a critical component in healing, in having a good life.

I'm scared to enter relationships when I'm like this. I feel like I'm not ready, like I will hurt the other person, like with former teacher/mentor and current mentor figure or even a romantic relationship...I need to get better before I can trust myself to do that. But I don't HAVE fifteen years or however long to wait!

[HazelGirl]

Yearning, how old are you? Why can't you wait a few years?

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Yearning, how old are you? Why can't you wait a few years?

I know I'm only nineteen (just turned nineteen in fact) and I know I have time...but I don't know how much longer I can live like this. I've just watched some really important relationships (mentor figure, T) blow up in my face and now they're on life support and it just hurts so much. I can't keep going through this. This thing with mentor figure was just awful. I hurt her a lot without meaning to, and I made her change...and now it's just fragmented and it's my fault and I need to stop doing this to myself. And to others.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

I know I'm only nineteen (just turned nineteen in fact) and I know I have time...but I don't know how much longer I can live like this. I've just watched some really important relationships (mentor figure, T) blow up in my face and now they're on life support and it just hurts so much. I can't keep going through this. This thing with mentor figure was just awful. I hurt her a lot without meaning to, and I made her change...and now it's just fragmented and it's my fault and I need to stop doing this to myself. And to others.

I am so sorry. It is extremely painful. I was just talking to my T yesterday about a relationship I damaged, and it really does suck.

But you do have time. And you will survive, even though it is painful.

[HazelGirl]

And part of the problem is that your brain isn't completely developed yet. It doesn't stop developing until you're in your mid-20's. It's harder for you to see things long-term because your brain literally can't. So when things feel overwhelming, it's partially because of that.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by Yearning0723

I'm scared to enter relationships when I'm like this. I feel like I'm not ready, like I will hurt the other person, like with former teacher/mentor and current mentor figure or even a romantic relationship...I need to get better before I can trust myself to do that. But I don't HAVE fifteen years or however long to wait!

You don't need to be perfect to be in a relationship, or relationships would never happen. You need to be yourself and try to be kind. Of course you'll hurt someone. Someone will hurt you too. That always happens. But you'll have great times as well, you'll learn, you'll grow, you'll connect. It's ok to make mistakes. In fact, it's absolutely mandatory. You're not as broken as you think. Everyone has issues. I do not mean to make light of yours. But many many people have gone through similarly difficult situations and have relationships. Plus, you are actively working on yourself and trying to be self aware, which many many people don't, so you have that advantage.

[Yearning0723]

Originally Posted by Leah123

You don't need to be perfect to be in a relationship, or relationships would never happen. You need to be yourself and try to be kind. Of course you'll hurt someone. Someone will hurt you too. That always happens. But you'll have great times as well, you'll learn, you'll grow, you'll connect. It's ok to make mistakes. In fact, it's absolutely mandatory. You're not as broken as you think. Everyone has issues. I do not mean to make light of yours. But many many people have gone through similarly difficult situations and have relationships. Plus, you are actively working on yourself and trying to be self aware, which many many people don't, so you have that advantage.

I know. I guess it's just the situation with mentor figure that's hitting me hard and the fact that I get triggered by dumb things like her telling me about having to sit in the corner as a punishment when she was a kid. And because I got triggered, I overreacted to the situation and told her not to talk to me about her parents, which she took as an instruction not to talk about anything personal with me at all, thus greatly damaging our relationship. She doesn't act caring towards me anymore, just indifferent. It makes me so sad because I ruined something really wonderful because my issues were getting in the way.

And this happens literally all the time...I always hurt all the people who matter to me...