I just got back from my T appt. I don't seem to make any progress. We go over & over the same stuff (low self-esteem, some anger & depression & some suicide ideation). So what am I supposed to be doing in therapy?

She says my marriage has a lot of problems cuz we don't talk about things that are upsetting to me, but why would I want to talk about upsetting things when the last time we did I ODed? I've withdrawn quite a bit from my husband. I don't want to be hurt again. We don't sleep together, we don't even eat together. But that's my doing cuz I am so devastated about his negative remark about my weight gain that I feel like I'm sinning when I eat & I don't want him to witness it.

Where do I get some guidance about what I should be accomplishing in therapy? The "I'm a good, worthwhile person" stuff just isn't helping me to feel it inside.

I'm wondering if I can't do anything right. I'm flunking therapy!--Suzy

[Parker10]

HI. Sorry things dont seem to be "working". Therapy takes time........for some folks longer than others, there really is no time frame - no "one size fits all" if you may. If you have been seeing the same Therapist for 2 years, and you truly feel you are making no progress, it might be time to change therapists. I really do not think you are "flunking" therapy, unless you are not doing anything suggested, or actually sabatoging yourself. There are different kinds of therapy also - perhaps the type you are in just isnt for you.

If your marriage is rocky - and it sounds it is - that certainly seems like something you would need to be talking not only to your T with, but also your husband. I certainly do not mean a discussion with him that causes you to get so upset you OD, but will he talk - and will he listen to you? Has your T ever suggested he attend therapy with you? Perhaps you need couples therapy.

I really am taken aback that your husband commented on your weight gain, and now you dont eat with him, thinking eating is sinful. You have to eat.......to live. It certainly is not a sin to eat. Has he shattered your self esteem, or is this something you have dealt with before that rude, unnecessary comment he made? (My husband would still be seeing stars if he ever said that to me - and yes, I am a bit overweight).

Can you get some of that "I am a worthwhile person" from yourself ? Like with your work, or hobbies, or child rearing, or volunteering, or just anything that you do that gives you satisfaction?

Good luck, therapy is never easy, and I do know the feeling all too well of not thinking I was not making progress. Have you voiced that to your T ? Asked for feedback from her about how she sees your progress? She might be seeing it, where you are not, and if so, perhaps she should share that with you.

[lemmkins]

Suzy, I am so very sorry that you are not feeling successful in therapy. I can relate to the hiding when eating mindset. I wonder, do you think you could write your hubby a note about you feel. I would use just " I feel" statements.

I am sending you good thoughts.

I saw this therapist for a couple years when I was first dxed as bp 1, but when I go the right meds I just didn't need it anymore. I felt so much better. So I'm back with her after a couple years break. My pdoc recommended I get back into therapy since the OD.

My husband would go to therapy with or without me, but I would feel too vulnerable. I don't want to hear anymore "truth" from him. It's too devastating.

I do ask my T, "What am I supposed to be talking about?" I'm just not getting over the conversation when my husband said he no longer found me sexually attractive so we just kinda go over my not getting over it. I do feel better away from my husband--better about myself. I don't feel like other people are judging me as harshly.

But he has been my "father figure" since we got together when I was 15 & he was 16. We went to a boarding school together--my mother had committed suicide & my father pretty much abandoned us so I've always been very dependent on his approval. When I attempted suicide at the boarding school, they took me to the hospital & called him, not my father cuz the dorm parents knew he was more involved in my life than my father. When my father found out he just got mad. I reminded him too much of my mother (who also had bp 1), I guess. He didn't want to deal with another crazy female.

Thanks for your helpful comments.--Suzy

[sunrise]

Suzy, I'm sorry therapy is not going well for you right now. I had some thoughts on a few points you made:

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
We go over & over the same stuff.....

and

I'm just not getting over the conversation when my husband said he no longer found me sexually attractive so we just kinda go over my not getting over it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Sounds like you're stuck to me on this incident. Going over it multiple times with T is not helping. Ask T for another approach from his/her toolkit. My T uses EMDR on stuck traumas. Helps the brain process them so you can move on.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
So what am I supposed to be doing in therapy?

and

Where do I get some guidance about what I should be accomplishing in therapy?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I think you could ask your T both of these questions. If T has no answers, maybe time to move on to new therapist?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The "I'm a good, worthwhile person" stuff just isn't helping me to feel it inside.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Is that the CBT approach? Doesn't work for me either. Maybe try a T with a different therapy orientation. A switch made all the difference for me.

Do you want to remain married? If so, then couples therapy in the future may be really helpful. Maybe a goal in your therapy could be to work toward being able to do couples therapy. It sounds too tough for that now, but maybe if T knows you want to work toward that, it would make your therapy feel more purposeful.

Good luck. Hang in there.

sunny

What is EMDR? I would like to make my therapy more purposeful. I'm basically talking about the same incident & crying.

When my husband & I travel & we have to stay in the same room of the hotel, I sleep on the closet floor. I'm often crying. My pdoc has increased my Lamictal to 300 mg a day from 200 to help with the depression (that's been several weeks ago--doesn't seem to help with the breakthrough depression). But I don't feel depressed all the time. It's not like a normal depression that invades your life & affects everything.

I'm only depressed when I'm around him, think about him, or think about myself & all my weaknesses, faults, lack of productivity, lack of purpose in this life, etc. Thank you for the responses. I really need help in this regard so any advice is helpful.

As far as sabatoging or not doing what my therapist suggested, she's not really suggested anything specific for me to do except take a class so I would be around other people more. I do that periodically through Adult Ed. & do see one that interests me now. It seems everyone already has enough friends so no overtures are made to continue any relationships outside of class, but at least I'm around humans & I don't feel so judged.--Suzy

[Soidhonia]

Hello Suzy I am sorry you are going through this in your life right now. I understand the fear you must have about revealing yourself to your therpist and the rejection from your husband, but you are still a person and deserve to get the help you need. Other people see you as a king caring person not your weight, Suzy and I hope one day with the right help for your self esteem that you figure out that the world is made up of PEOPLE, all kinds of people and the most important thing in life is making a difference in life not weight. I hope if you are overweight you would be concerned to get healthier, but I hope that you dont let this turn into something serious for your health due to your husbands issues with your weight. You are a very bright and caring person and I would really hate to see someone cause you to lose those qualities that people like about you Suzy, Marriage counseling may help you and your husband as well. I really hate to see you hurting from what your husband said when you did not deserve it really. Ijust hope that you let your therapist help you and your husband so that you can have a better attitude towards life and yourself. I hope the best for you and your husband and the relationship. Take care Soidhonia

[Rapunzel]

Suzy,

One thing that you could do is try to think of (make a list) how life would be different for you if therapy and if you were better. From there, I am sure that your T could help you with making a plan to work towards the things that are important to you.

I have felt like I was failing therapy too. I've been working with my current T for about 2 1/2 years now, and several others previously. She almost terminated me a few months ago because I apparently couldn't do therapy and was not getting any better. I am starting to do better now though, and I think that this time it's real improvement that will last. So if I can do it, you can too. You have to figure out what you want though, because if you don't know where you are going, chances are you will never get there.

One of my goals is to learn how to live without being depressed. I haven't known how because I had been depressed for my whole life. What would life be like for you if you were happy and well?

Rap

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Suzy5654 said:
What is EMDR? I would like to make my therapy more purposeful. I'm basically talking about the same incident &amp; crying.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) is a technique used in trauma treatment, and has some application to other areas too. It is considered a type of "information processing therapy." During EMDR, while recalling a difficult event, you engage both halves of your brain, in alternating sequence, by one of a number of different techniques. This helps the disturbing memories get unstuck and allows the brain to finally process them. I'm sure I'm really botching this explanation. Originally, people would move their eyes back and forth while recalling, but this isn't done as much anymore. (I can't do that anyway--too distracting.) When my therapist does it with me, he gives me these two little electronic gismos and I place one under each foot (some people use the thighs) and they emit sequential pulses, one after the other. You can adjust the intensity to what is right for you. (It's kind of like the vibrating of a cell phone, but more subtle.) The important thing is to engage both sides of the brain.

I've done EMDR several times in therapy and it has really helped, but not everyone finds it helpful. You just have to see if it works for you. I do not use it on my own (some people do "self-EMDR" on themselves outside of the therapy setting, but I would not advise this until you've done it a lot in therapy). The therapist should be trained in EMDR before attempting this. Most people recommend the therapist have at least "level 2" EMDR training.

Here is a site where you can read more:
http://www.emdr.com

There are other approaches to getting unstuck too. Your T may have good ideas about what has worked well in his/her practice in the past.

Good luck!
sunny

Hmm, a list of how I would be different if I were well--most of the list is what my husband wants me to be--I'd be back playing tennis; I'd be thin again; I'd have self-confidence; I wouldn't be crying so much; I wouldn't be irrational; I wouldn't be sleeping in the closet....

I wish I could say "I feel" but I feel too bad about myself & scared of his judgement to do that, Right now I'm quaking in my boots to see what other "bomb" may be coming my way. And I know I won't handle any more. I feel very fragile emotionally. I'm sorry that I can't do what is a very good suggestion of yours.--Suzy

sunrise, thanks for giving me the info. on EMDR. Looking at the site it said that the person should have adequate methods of handling emotional distress & good coping skills & be relatively stable to be able to participate & benefit from it. I'm a long ways from that. Sh#t, I'm kinda lost & will just have to tell my therapist that. I don't know if she is doing her job. When I saw her years ago, I was not functioning so I spent the whole time crying & then getting on the meds for bp helped so much, I didn't feel like I needed therapy anymore.

Now, I'd recommend anyone who has ODed to get some therapy & here I am not sure what I'm supposed to be doing there. Thanks for all your input. Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.--Suzy

[Perna]

Suzy, you're forgetting to breathe (not literally but figuratively)! Time never stands still but keeps moving. When something is said, "I don't find you sexually attractive" it's said for only that moment in time, it can't get into the past or future and you can't stay where it was placed. There's more than just one thing or its opposite. "Weight" and "sexual attraction" are on a continuum; there's not just "skinny" or "fat". Not only are these things on a continuum but also multi-dimentional and more complex, just like people are.

Forget about sexual attraction for the moment and ask your husband if he'd like a backrub. My husband cut the nerves in the bottom of one of his feet as a teenager and now has random pains in the foot that only my massaging his foot helps; they didn't have microsurgery in the 1950s :-) But sometimes I'm just not in the mood to massage his foot and say "no" to his request but other times I "trade" him and will massage his foot if he'll watch a television show with me that is a type he normally wouldn't watch or if he'll read aloud to me. We make bargains. It's not a personal thing, his having a damaged foot and I'm not being mean or "bad" when I don't feel like helping him and massaging it!

There's lots more to your husband and yourself and sexual attraction/inattraction than merely that you weigh/look a certain way. That comment was condensed/shorthand and not personal! You both have damaged sexual attraction appendages :-) Think outside the "box" of what he says to you and pretend you're an observer outside the situation. Take an expression you're afraid of such as the "I don't find you sexually attractive" and put each of the feelings you can think of behind it and/or accent each word differently ("i don't find you SEXUALLY attractive," versus, "i don't find you sexually ATTRACTIVE," versus "i don't FIND YOU sexually attractive, etc.) and think what it would be like if your husband meant it out of sadness/disappointment, anger at himself, amazement, a momentary statement of fact because of something that was happening right then that you've forgotten or didn't know (you had a cold and had a big red nose with a tiny piece of Kleenex stuck to it and rheumy eyes :-) etc.

The things you've been talking about in therapy? Don't let yourself think or talk about them at all one week; what would you talk about? Go out and buy 2-3 magazines that attract you and look at them and cut out pictures. I have a collage I made myself on huge posterboard (and yes it has pictures of thin-legged women/pants) and I just paid $100+ to have it framed (it was getting old/tattered/faded but I love it). Make yourself a collage and see what it tells you about yourself? Take it in to therapy and talk about it and its images? I'll go take a picture of my collage (a picture of my picture? :-) and post it here for you right now.

[Perna]

I've got magazine pictures of women I like (their hair and the skinny hips/thighs/legs bottom left), a book jacket and signatures of my parents from cards they'd written me, pictures of myself as a little girl, poems/ideas I like, pictures of friends, big picture of my stepmother ("big" in my life but not a "friend"), wishes, things I like to eat (potatoes :-) pictures of houses and gardens I liked, things related to the "feminine" it's just all about Me! I took it to therapy one day and we talked about various parts of it and what they "meant" to me. Sorry I could only get about a third of it on here. Middle right cut off is the church I was married in (from their "brochure").

[sunrise]

Very cool, Perna! Thanks for sharing your collage. What a great idea (and great conversation piece for therapy).

[JimmyClifton]

Perhaps it's time for a treatment plan review.

Perna, that is a great collage & idea. Maybe I could use it to find out who I am under all this depression & self-loathing. Maybe I can see myself from a compassionate perspective instead of just through my husband's judgemental eyes. I'll try that.--Suzy

I've never really discussed a "treatment plan." There have been just vague discussions that I need to increase my self-esteem & manage my bipolar symptoms to improve the quality of my life & get over the desire to OD to stop the "voices" (not literal ones) that keep putting me down. I have lost a little weight since I've stopped eating with my husband. I just give him his dinner & go in another room & read so maybe this is for the best. I have gained 50 lbs. in five years since being on the bp meds & now have high blood pressure & insulin resistance that could be a precurser to diabetes--both my parents were diabetic. So maybe I could focus on my physical health & let the mental health not be my only focus. Thanks for all the help. I'll use your suggestions to improve my therapy or if that doesn't work, maybe try to find another one. I just know I need a woman therapist.--Suzy

Other therapy approaches might be more helpful.

I see someone recommend EMDR and that is one option, although my psychologist just yesterday said that most recent research says EMDR works best for recent trauma and other therapies, including the guided imagery and hypnosis, work best for older traumas. It sounds to me that you may have both; your mother's bp and suicide, your OD, your own diagnois, and your current relationship issues are a lot for you to have going on.

If you don't see a therapist of your own as well as seeing one with your husband, you might add that: having someone just for you where it is just about you. Whatever you do separately to feel better will carry over to your marriage.

Being stuck on something or another is a reason we go for therapy. Being stuck on a topic in theapy sounds frustrating and may just mean that type of therapy or that therapist aren't what you need, which is the bottom line.. what it is that you need and want.

You might also want to talk to you current T about not liking being stuck and feeing that it isn't working for you.

What about working together with your husband on nutrition issues? It might be fun to be a team, learning about nutrition, shopping and planning meals, and cooking together. A walk together after supper or whenever you have the time would be intimate and some nice quiet time together.

You can't flunk therapy any more than you can flunk.. say shopping: but you might find that one place has more to offer you that you want than another place does.That isn't flunking, that is learning about what you want. Right now, you are going and trying and that is success!


ECHOES

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
ECHOES said:
I see someone recommend EMDR and that is one option, although my psychologist just yesterday said that most recent research says EMDR works best for recent trauma and other therapies, including the guided imagery and hypnosis, work best for older traumas.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">That was me who mentioned EMDR. It may not be the best option for Suzy, as she has said, but I just wanted to say that it has been shown to be very effective for older traumas. I have used it for very early childhood trauma, as have many others, and it was very effective.

sunny

sunrise, I'm so glad it works for you. I have no first-hand experience with it and maybe should have not said anything one way or another. It was just that my T just told me that yesterday and it was fresh in my mind. What she said about it sounded very positive and I think it is an amazing therapy.

Sunrise, I hope I didn't offend you because I wouldn't want to do that.

ECHOES

[sunrise]

Echoes, no, not offended at all!

I've read a lot on EMDR where success is reported with both recent and distant traumas, and also I have the firsthand experience, so I just didn't want people to think it could not be effective for early trauma at all.

It truly is an amazing therapy, but not for everyone.

sunny

Thanks sunny.

I have only a little knowledge, which is of course a dangerous thing..

Tell me more about EMDR?

ECHOES