[HazelGirl]

What caused my parents to see me in that way?

What did I do or not do that caused my parents to criticize me all the time, to ignore my needs, to treat me like a burden, to abuse me? What about me caused them to react in that way?

My T is constantly insisting that my self-loathing view of myself comes from their view of me, and that she doesn't see me the way they saw me or the way I see myself. But what did I do to deserve to be treated so badly by them? What did I do or say or not do? Why was I treated this way? Why were they embarrassed by me, why were they worn out by my needs? What's wrong with me that the people who knew me the best disliked me and treated me badly?

[ThisWayOut]

It's nothing about you and everything about them...
there's more I want to say, but I don't know how to put it into words, so I wool leave it at the above. Abuse is always about the abuser and never about the abused.

[kororain]

They are damaged people. They mistreated you because THEY have issues. You are a thoughtful, wise human who was unfortunately, collateral damage in their war of a life.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

What caused my parents to see me in that way?

What did I do or not do that caused my parents to criticize me all the time, to ignore my needs, to treat me like a burden, to abuse me? What about me caused them to react in that way?

My T is constantly insisting that my self-loathing view of myself comes from their view of me, and that she doesn't see me the way they saw me or the way I see myself. But what did I do to deserve to be treated so badly by them? What did I do or say or not do? Why was I treated this way? Why were they embarrassed by me, why were they worn out by my needs? What's wrong with me that the people who knew me the best disliked me and treated me badly?

I'm curious, is there a way you can ask your parents these questions or are you not on speaking terms (or they passed away, etc)?

I also doubt that any parents, unless very severe chronic mental illnesses, loathe their kids all the time. It's possible that certain circumstances or certain behaviors get to them. They are people too so they were not necessarily raised by most loving accepting educated people either. Life is messy that way. And sometimes they're not even aware of what they're doing. They are unaware of how their smallest actions mean so much to a young person, who sees the parents as his/her world.

I was talking to my parents the other day about them shaming me and they could not even remember! I think it's very difficult for any parent to intentionally and consciously harm their own flesh and blood on a regular basis, by their words or actions.

In my case, much of the hurt came from was a personality mismatch and also how they themselves were raised. What they considered or learned to be love, was tough love, and I was a sensitive kid and saw a lot of that as them not loving me or being abusive or hating me. And they indeed did abuse me at times and at times they did hate me and felt embarrassed by me too. I was not manly enough for my dad or my mom, for instance. But they also did a lot of things for me, things that can be interpreted as love (take care of me when sick, taking me to school, helping me with homework, buying me clothes and toys, taking me on vacation, etc).

But sometimes certain actions or words are so painful or sometimes parents fail us at a time we most needed them and was most vulnerable, that it nearly erases all the good they have done. That's why talking to them about it is sometimes helpful. Especially if done at a time people are in a peaceful state of mind and open to exploring things without so many strong emotions.

Lastly, I think someone who knows you well or for so long, may also lose perspective. If you had to live with your therapist for so many years or if your therapist was the one raising you, she'd not have that kind of distant objectivity. I sometimes have that kind of clarity when I meet someone for the first few times. But long term and closer relationships, especially when combined with personal investment in the relationship (as parents do), can muddy up the one's vision.

[A Red Panda]

I wonder the same thing a lot about my own family.

Over time I've came to a few conclusions:
1. my mom viewed me as an extension of herself, and was very angered when I stopped complying.
2. my family structure was very sexist and I was resistant to that from a very early age
3. I'm more introverted and intellectual than my family members; I have different interests, preferences, and skills. this singled me out a lot.
4. they had expectations that were unrealistic for me, combined with not providing me with any support or love really.

etc etc.

I'm me, and while ME wasn't acceptable to them.... I can figure out why I wasn't acceptable to them, and after years of trying to be what they wanted... I realized I couldn't and I like me better the way I am now anyway. It's their issue, not mine. Doesn't stop it hurting like a mofo though...

[Wren_]

I have/had a lot of the same questions ... and don't know the answers either. I don't think though that their actions are because of you ... and that as others have said it is about their own stuff. The difficulty seems to be how to believe that, to believe it in a life changing way and not just as words that fail to impact. Hopefully that's something your T can help with, and others including those here can

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by ThisWayOut

It's nothing about you and everything about them...
there's more I want to say, but I don't know how to put it into words, so I wool leave it at the above. Abuse is always about the abuser and never about the abused.

I hate that I don't have a good answer. I hate that I have to just accept things as they are.

Originally Posted by kororain

They are damaged people. They mistreated you because THEY have issues. You are a thoughtful, wise human who was unfortunately, collateral damage in their war of a life.

But why me? My younger brother was treated better than me by my father and both my brothers were treated better by my mother. Why me?

Originally Posted by Partless

I'm curious, is there a way you can ask your parents these questions or are you not on speaking terms (or they passed away, etc)?

I also doubt that any parents, unless very severe chronic mental illnesses, loathe their kids all the time. It's possible that certain circumstances or certain behaviors get to them. They are people too so they were not necessarily raised by most loving accepting educated people either. Life is messy that way. And sometimes they're not even aware of what they're doing. They are unaware of how their smallest actions mean so much to a young person, who sees the parents as his/her world.

I was talking to my parents the other day about them shaming me and they could not even remember! I think it's very difficult for any parent to intentionally and consciously harm their own flesh and blood on a regular basis, by their words or actions.

In my case, much of the hurt came from was a personality mismatch and also how they themselves were raised. What they considered or learned to be love, was tough love, and I was a sensitive kid and saw a lot of that as them not loving me or being abusive or hating me. And they indeed did abuse me at times and at times they did hate me and felt embarrassed by me too. I was not manly enough for my dad or my mom, for instance. But they also did a lot of things for me, things that can be interpreted as love (take care of me when sick, taking me to school, helping me with homework, buying me clothes and toys, taking me on vacation, etc).

But sometimes certain actions or words are so painful or sometimes parents fail us at a time we most needed them and was most vulnerable, that it nearly erases all the good they have done. That's why talking to them about it is sometimes helpful. Especially if done at a time people are in a peaceful state of mind and open to exploring things without so many strong emotions.

Lastly, I think someone who knows you well or for so long, may also lose perspective. If you had to live with your therapist for so many years or if your therapist was the one raising you, she'd not have that kind of distant objectivity. I sometimes have that kind of clarity when I meet someone for the first few times. But long term and closer relationships, especially when combined with personal investment in the relationship (as parents do), can muddy up the one's vision.

I am extremely sensitive, and I know that does play into it. I do not speak to my father. He is a sociopath, and is a terrible, terrifying person. My mother is codependent, and only focuses on herself. She would tell me about how terrible I made her feel and possibly get angry at me for "accusing her of being a bad parent" if I tried to ask anything. I could blame their personality disorders, the way they were raised, my own sensitivities, ect... but I feel like that doesn't completely explain everything. It just leaves me with more confusion and more questions. Why couldn't anyone see I was hurting? Why did I feel like I repelled them? Etc...

And yes, there were times my mother was loving. But I always felt like it came with a price, like I was to emotionally pay her back for her care.

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

I wonder the same thing a lot about my own family.

Over time I've came to a few conclusions:
1. my mom viewed me as an extension of herself, and was very angered when I stopped complying.
2. my family structure was very sexist and I was resistant to that from a very early age
3. I'm more introverted and intellectual than my family members; I have different interests, preferences, and skills. this singled me out a lot.
4. they had expectations that were unrealistic for me, combined with not providing me with any support or love really.

etc etc.

I'm me, and while ME wasn't acceptable to them.... I can figure out why I wasn't acceptable to them, and after years of trying to be what they wanted... I realized I couldn't and I like me better the way I am now anyway. It's their issue, not mine. Doesn't stop it hurting like a mofo though...

No, it doesn't seem like anything stops it from hurting.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

I have/had a lot of the same questions ... and don't know the answers either. I don't think though that their actions are because of you ... and that as others have said it is about their own stuff. The difficulty seems to be how to believe that, to believe it in a life changing way and not just as words that fail to impact. Hopefully that's something your T can help with, and others including those here can

How could they not be at least in part because of me? I don't really know what I am asking with that question. I guess that, although I can say their personalities played a part in it, I must have had some role. Some part must have been my fault.

[Hobbit House]

They are damaged people, you are better than them! move on with your life and don't look back. you will succeed in spite of them.

[HazelGirl]

I just feel really confused and something else right now. The more I talk about this stuff, the more I have memories of bad times, and it makes things even more difficult and makes me more upset. I don't know what to do with all of this.

[pmbm]

HazelGirl,

I don't think that there is an answer to those questions that is satisfying. I think that eventually one needs to accept that in order to heal. Please don't think I am preaching. I have not come to that acceptance yet. I was horribly, brutally abused and tortured by my parents and other family members. My sibling was involved in my abuse and I thought that my sibling escaped abuse, but that turns out not to be true. Even being involved in my abuse means thaty sibling was abused. I am often sure that the abuse was about me. If I wasn't so bad, so needy, so gross ....these things would not have happened. But, now I am in the process of adopting three young children who were terribly abused. I am not abusing them. I can't imagine ever hurting them. They are so sweet and innocent....so how could their bio parents have treated them so badly? And then that gets me on the path to Wonder if they didn't deserve the abuse, why would I have. I also went on a retreat a few months ago with a bunch of people with horrible abuse stories. As we all sat in a circle, I looked at these people, and heard their stories, and thought that none of these peoe deserved what happened to them..and I suddenly knew that they were looking around and thinking the same thing...about everybody seems, including me. Do I am beginning to get to the point of being able to think that the abuse really was not about me. It's about the people who did it. I've been reading your posts for a long time. I'm pretty sure you did nothing to deserve the abuse. It just is. It happened to you, not because of you.

[blur]

hazel, it is absolutely never your fault when someone abuses you. that is victim blaming. the problem is with the abuser. with families, dysfunction goes right down the family line manytimes. your parents probably came from abusive & co-dependent families and so treated you the same way. it sounds like there is sexism in your family as well where the men got treated better than the women. i think one of the hardest things to accept is that we didn't do anything to cause the abuse and so there is no way we could have prevented it.

[HazelGirl]

The first time I ever heard someone tell me about their abuse story, it was someone I admired greatly (and still do), and I remember thinking so much that she didn't deserve anything that happened to her, she didn't deserve the things that were done to her, and it was horrible that she went through them. But I think that's easier when the abuse is huge and awful and extreme. But when the abuse is shaming and guilt trips and ignoring and that type of thing, it's much harder to think it's not my fault.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

I am extremely sensitive, and I know that does play into it. I do not speak to my father. He is a sociopath, and is a terrible, terrifying person. My mother is codependent, and only focuses on herself. She would tell me about how terrible I made her feel and possibly get angry at me for "accusing her of being a bad parent" if I tried to ask anything. I could blame their personality disorders, the way they were raised, my own sensitivities, ect... but I feel like that doesn't completely explain everything. It just leaves me with more confusion and more questions. Why couldn't anyone see I was hurting? Why did I feel like I repelled them? Etc...

And yes, there were times my mother was loving. But I always felt like it came with a price, like I was to emotionally pay her back for her care.

That sounds awful, I was not aware of the details, seems you had it tougher than I thought, given your parents' personalities and your own sensitivities and difficulty in communication even now. Their behavior would have been damaging even to someone who would not describe themselves as sensitive, I would think.

I may be wrong, but I almost feel like you're asking a question about fairness of life. Or perhaps some fundamental assumptions and beliefs of your being challenged. Like it almost makes no sense how people who gave life to you and raised you and knew you so personally for so many years, would be the ones most damaging to you! It's like you keep thinking about it and then say, What?! You expect strangers to act that way not your own parents. Like it's unfair, like makes no sense. It's like an oxymoron or something.

And somehow saying, say, a mismatch in personality or life circumstances, that does not sound satisfying. It doesn't seem personal enough, yet the hurt is very personal. It's almost like wanting to scream, What did I do to make you act the way you did! Like in some ways the hurt deserves a much better answer. I'm reminded of the fact that many kids who are mistreated do end up blaming themselves regardless. I don't know why. Maybe to think that the very people who gave us life and raised us when we were little and vulnerable, they must be loving and caring at all times. We rather be bad than question their goodness or love. People are, in some ways, more vulnerable than want to admit. And life is more unfair. Parents who hurt us remind us too much of those things, it opens deep wounds. That even closest people can do this to you. There is no safety in the world, we might conclude. That's terrifying!

I'm sorry, I'm gonna stop here because I'm getting emotional myself and reminded of the times I followed mom around, she was my whole world, and yet she was also abusive when enraged or under pressure, and for years I tried to get her validation or alternatively a satisfying answer as to why she did that to me, or not so much why, but more like, How could you do this to me, your own child, I was vulnerable, I was little, I had nobody else, I needed your love, I did nothing bad to you, I loved you deeply in my little ways, how could you!

[pmbm]

HazelGirl,

Abuse is abuse. It's not your fault and it's not about you. You are describing emotional abuse. It seems so personal, I know. But one thing I am sure of, is that it's the abuser's problem, not yours ( I need to listen to myself. It would make my therapist so happy!).

[JustShakey]

I can't answer for you, but for me...
My mother was an abused and neglected child. She was born at the tail end of a very large family of mostly girls and the little boy born right before her died of SIDS. My grandfather never forgave her for being a girl - he worked her like a man (he was a farmer) and beat her for trying to act like a boy. She was never trusted to go out by herself - my aunts were expected to keep an eye on her so she wouldn't 'get herself into trouble', that is, get herself pregnant messing around with the boys.
My mother tried to make me into the girl she never got to be. Not only did she fail miserably, she passed on her mistrust and possibly even hatred of her own gender, leaving me feeling out of place in my own skin and among women and distrustful yet envious of men. She wanted me to be the girl she never got to be, but she was too resentful of me to actually let it happen.
I'm less sure about my father, but I think my grandmother tried to make him into the boy that *she* wanted to be, setting him up for my mother to try place him in the role of the father that she wanted. And she died very young, when my dad was just barely out of his teens.
Gah, what a mess... I had a mother who badly needed to be parented herself and a father too weak to define his own role. And they both spent years in religious life before they were married. So in a way I was raised like a candidate for the novitiate.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by Partless

That sounds awful, I was not aware of the details, seems you had it tougher than I thought, given your parents' personalities and your own sensitivities and difficulty in communication even now. Their behavior would have been damaging even to someone who would not describe themselves as sensitive, I would think.

I may be wrong, but I almost feel like you're asking a question about fairness of life. Or perhaps some fundamental assumptions and beliefs of your being challenged. Like it almost makes no sense how people who gave life to you and raised you and knew you so personally for so many years, would be the ones most damaging to you! It's like you keep thinking about it and then say, What?! You expect strangers to act that way not your own parents. Like it's unfair, like makes no sense. It's like an oxymoron or something.

And somehow saying, say, a mismatch in personality or life circumstances, that does not sound satisfying. It doesn't seem personal enough, yet the hurt is very personal. It's almost like wanting to scream, What did I do to make you act the way you did! Like in some ways the hurt deserves a much better answer. I'm reminded of the fact that many kids who are mistreated do end up blaming themselves regardless. I don't know why. Maybe to think that the very people who gave us life and raised us when we were little and vulnerable, they must be loving and caring at all times. We rather be bad than question their goodness or love. People are, in some ways, more vulnerable than want to admit. And life is more unfair. Parents who hurt us remind us too much of those things, it opens deep wounds. That even closest people can do this to you. There is no safety in the world, we might conclude. That's terrifying!

I'm sorry, I'm gonna stop here because I'm getting emotional myself and reminded of the times I followed mom around, she was my whole world, and yet she was also abusive when enraged or under pressure, and for years I tried to get her validation or alternatively a satisfying answer as to why she did that to me, or not so much why, but more like, How could you do this to me!

Yes, this is it entirely. How? Why? It doesn't make sense. No answer makes enough sense to satisfy. I could talk about personality disorders, attachment difficulties, insensitivity, bad parenting...but none of it really answers the question of Why is it that the people who are supposed to love me the most and care about me sacrificially didn't? Why didn't they love me in the way I needed? Why weren't they there for me? Why do I have to try to put my own mental health back together after they destroyed it? How is that fair? How does that even make sense?

[blur]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

The first time I ever heard someone tell me about their abuse story, it was someone I admired greatly (and still do), and I remember thinking so much that she didn't deserve anything that happened to her, she didn't deserve the things that were done to her, and it was horrible that she went through them. But I think that's easier when the abuse is huge and awful and extreme. But when the abuse is shaming and guilt trips and ignoring and that type of thing, it's much harder to think it's not my fault.

this sounds like emotional abuse and possibly neglect. i didn't experience any physical or sexual abuse, so for a long time i thought it was all just me--that i was the problem. both verbal and emotional abuse are more subtle and common, so they can be harder to accept and deal with. they can be so damaging though especially when they are daily thing. i don't know if you also maybe had spiritual abuse. i fortunately did not.

you're working really hard in therapy but it's good sometimes to slow down and to remember to have some fun too.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by blur

this sounds like emotional abuse and possibly neglect. i didn't experience any physical or sexual abuse, so for a long time i thought it was all just me--that i was the problem. both verbal and emotional abuse are more subtle and common, so they can be harder to accept and deal with. they can be so damaging though especially when they are daily thing. i don't know if you also maybe had spiritual abuse. i fortunately did not.

you're working really hard in therapy but it's good sometimes to slow down and to remember to have some fun too.

No, no spiritual abuse. But my father was physically abusive as well. And I don't really have much of a problem with that, except having to remind myself that if people get angry at me, they're not going to hit me. It's more all this emotional abuse crap that I struggle with.

[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

No, no spiritual abuse. But my father was physically abusive as well. And I don't really have much of a problem with that, except having to remind myself that if people get angry at me, they're not going to hit me. It's more all this emotional abuse crap that I struggle with.

Emotional abuse is the worst. The very nature of it is such that you're made to feel like you have nothing to complain about, that everything is your own fault. That you just need to cop on and grow the f- up already.
Like my mother said when I visited her recently: you made those choices yourself. It's very hard to keep in my mind that even though I did make poor choices, she is the one who taught me to make poor choices. She's my mommy. And she's supposed to always be right. She hurt me and now I think it's okay to be hurt and that I deserve to be hurt and that it's good for me to be hurt and that that's how I learn. I feel like something is wrong or I'm being lazy and useless if I'm not letting myself be hurt or used somehow.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by JustShakey

Emotional abuse is the worst. The very nature of it is such that you're made to feel like you have nothing to complain about, that everything is your own fault. That you just need to cop on and grow the f- up already.
Like my mother said when I visited her recently: you made those choices yourself. It's very hard to keep in my mind that even though I did make poor choices, she is the one who taught me to make poor choices. She's my mommy. And she's supposed to always be right. She hurt me and now I think it's okay to be hurt and that I deserve to be hurt and that it's good for me to be hurt and that that's how I learn. I feel like something is wrong or I'm being lazy and useless if I'm not letting myself be hurt or used somehow.

And maybe that's what makes it so hard for me to be in relationships with people. If they're not hurting me or criticizing me, if they're just treating me normally, I don't feel like they care. They're only "tolerating" me.

[kororain]

Shakey, your posts are really resonating with me tonight. Thank you for posting.

[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

And maybe that's what makes it so hard for me to be in relationships with people. If they're not hurting me or criticizing me, if they're just treating me normally, I don't feel like they care. They're only "tolerating" me.

Yeah, exactly. As I told T a while back I feel like people are just being polite when they're nice to me and when they're hurting or criticizing me they're being honest. I have no close friends and I'm married to a damaged and emotionally abusive man. It's like there's no way out of it, just a miserable choice between loneliness or pain. I'm not sure which is worse really.

[JustShakey]

Originally Posted by kororain

Shakey, your posts are really resonating with me tonight. Thank you for posting.

Thanks Kororain, that means a lot to me

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by JustShakey

Yeah, exactly. As I told T a while back I feel like people are just being polite when they're nice to me and when they're hurting or criticizing me they're being honest. I have no close friends and I'm married to a damaged and emotionally abusive man. It's like there's no way out of it, just a miserable choice between loneliness or pain. I'm not sure which is worse really.

I have told my T almost exactly the same thing. People are just being polite when they're nice because it's not socially acceptable to be mean. But I can trust someone who is mean because I know what they're really thinking and I don't have to guess.