[rainbow8]

Hopefully, she will just be curious....In the past, I googled her adult daughter and read some articles the daughter wrote. They were very interesting, and happened to be relevant to something my daughter is involved with too. I don't want to give details. I decided to keep this information to myself. More recently, I learned through this, I'll call it a newsletter, that Ts daughter was relocating and where she was working. Again, similar to my daughter's interests.

Whenever I felt like I crossed boundaries, like driving past her house, I ended up telling her. I felt too guilty otherwise. This time I thought I could keep it to myself. T says it's okay to Google her but I think she may have a different feeling about her daughter.

During my session, I mentioned my daughter and this interest. I wish I could have said what I knew about her daughter but thought I'd better not.

So, of course I couldn't stop feeling guilty! I also wanted to be able to compliment her daughter, but of course I couldn't. Sigh...I alluded to this situation in email and wrote " I can't write it because you will be very upset." I didn't mention her d at all.

I know that her d's life has nothing to do with me or my d. I just found the writing (which was for the public though limited audience) fascinating. There were a few things about my T, but not much. I know if I asked T what her daughter's work is, she would have told me but I don't think she would have volunteered information about the newsletters.

I haven't been obsessing about this, barely thought about it until my session. Now I want to confess to her and talk about why I persist in looking up her family. I have a secure attachment to my T now, and feel differently. I was curious is all I can think of! Plus some of that "I wish this were a reciprocal relationship" feeling. T knows me for 6 years and knows I'm not a stalker. Still, I feel like I'm disappointing her, and wonder how she will react. I want to wait until my session and discuss it face to face, and face my punishment, so to speak.

If the situation were reversed, how would you feel about someone asking you specific questions about your own daughter? Would it put you ill at ease?

Hello Rainbow8

I think it's natural to want the relationship to be reciprocal because we share so much, with someone so accepting, we want the relationship because it's not something we have with anyone else.

I'm sorry I can't be helpful. I'd just continue to keep an open line of communication with your T. She might not like what you've done, but it's done now. You can only go forward.

[Myrto]

I've been in the same situation, more or less.
I found the social media (Facebook, Instagram) of my T's sons. Well I didn't "find" it, I went to look for it.
I started following their social media postings to the point that it got out of hand because of the feelings it was eliciting in me. I felt super guilty.
I finally told my therapist, expecting her anger.
And she was totally fine with it. Barely suprised.
So are you sure your T is gonna be angry at you? Why would she be?
After all, what you read online about her daughter is part of public domain, no?
I think curiosity is very normal. You shouldn't beat yourself up about this.

I think it's very natural to be curious about someone you are close to.

I would question your need to confess, and whether or not this might be a form of testing your therapist. This seems like distancing behavior to me.

[SoConfused623]

I was so curious about my T that I poked around on her FB and then looked at her relatives FB pages and pictures until I found out all kinds of stuff that I shouldn't know.

I completely know what you mean about feeling guilty and wanting to confess. I confessed and it was really bad. I wish that I never had as she was very angry about me overstepping her boundaries. I've apologized a couple of times but our sessions have been a little strained since then and I really hope that things can get back to where they were. I wish that I hadn't been so nosy! OR had the need to confess!!

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by winenot3

If the situation were reversed, how would you feel about someone asking you specific questions about your own daughter? Would it put you ill at ease?

I've been thinking about your question. If I were a T, and was seeing someone for 6 years, and had the kind of relationship my T and I have, I would be willing to answer questions about my daughter. I probably would have said "my daughter is interested in ------- too." But my T didn't say that. I'd make a horrible T because I wouldn't have good boundaries! If I were a T, and someone told me they liked to Google my daughter and knew a lot about her, I would be wary and maybe a little scared. But if I trusted my client and knew she was just interested in what people normally share with each other, I would be okay with it. But I understand why my T says it's okay to ask her questions but she doesn't like the way I do it sneakily. Thanks, winenot. I can see it a little better from my T's perspective now.

Originally Posted by Anglo

Hello Rainbow8

I think it's natural to want the relationship to be reciprocal because we share so much, with someone so accepting, we want the relationship because it's not something we have with anyone else.

I'm sorry I can't be helpful. I'd just continue to keep an open line of communication with your T. She might not like what you've done, but it's done now. You can only go forward.

Thanks, Anglo. I'm sure it will be an interesting session on Tuesday!

Originally Posted by Myrto

I've been in the same situation, more or less.
I found the social media (Facebook, Instagram) of my T's sons. Well I didn't "find" it, I went to look for it.
I started following their social media postings to the point that it got out of hand because of the feelings it was eliciting in me. I felt super guilty.
I finally told my therapist, expecting her anger.
And she was totally fine with it. Barely suprised.
So are you sure your T is gonna be angry at you? Why would she be?
After all, what you read online about her daughter is part of public domain, no?
I think curiosity is very normal. You shouldn't beat yourself up about this.

Yes, you're probably right. My T won't be angry but will say she would rather I ask her than sneak around googling her family. But I couldn't have asked because I didn't know what I would read. Some of it is personal, like there was a photo of T's mother. I feel like I invaded my T's privacy even though the information is part of the public domain.

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

I think it's very natural to be curious about someone you are close to.

I would question your need to confess, and whether or not this might be a form of testing your therapist. This seems like distancing behavior to me.

I've confessed to my T because I feel guilty and want her to know I did it. She's asked, "So what did you find?" but that was about googling HER. She wasn't angry when I found something she had written that was highly personal. She said she's aware clients might read it.

Testing my T? I know she likes me very much so I don't think I'm testing her. I want to tell her in order to become closer, not further away.

Rainbow -

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy your posts, including your honesty and willingness to share.

But at the risk of sounding unsupportive, I don't think there is much of a chance that you will get closer to your therapist by telling her you researched her daughter. It seems equally as intrusive as house drive-by's. I believe a therapists family is generally an off limits topic to introduce, especially if you gave her the opportunity to talk about her daughter and she didn't share freely. She may not think its a big deal if you bring it up, but by the title of your thread it sounds like you know you've already crossed the line.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

Rainbow -

I'll preface this by saying I really enjoy your posts, including your honesty and willingness to share.

But at the risk of sounding unsupportive, I don't think there is much of a chance that you will get closer to your therapist by telling her you researched her daughter. It seems equally as intrusive as house drive-by's. I believe a therapists family is generally an off limits topic to introduce, especially if you gave her the opportunity to talk about her daughter and she didn't share freely. She may not think its a big deal if you bring it up, but by the title of your thread it sounds like you know you've already crossed the line.

I know. I want to believe like some posters do, that it's all right because googling is so common and it's the public domain, but in my heart I know I shouldn't have read everything I did. Unless. I asked. First. T said maybe she wouldn't have minded that I drove past her house ( this was about 5 years ago, not recently) if I would have asked permission first. I should have asked if I could read her daughter's writing. When I saw T's art show. I thought she'd be angry, but she was pleased, instead. She's pretty open to answering my questions but I never thought to ask first. I wish she'd punish me. I don't where that wish comes from. But she'll probably say it's not so terrible. I hope...

[feralkittymom]

I wish she'd punish me. I don't where that wish comes from.

This^ was the first thing I thought of. I know that kids will experience whatever attention they get from their parents as nurturing, even when it's abusive because bad attention is better than no attention. The need to be seen is so compelling that a child will do whatever they must to fill that need. I just wonder if on some level you are feeling less seen by your T and so you've been compelled to do the one thing that is pretty sure to bring you attention (punishment) that leaves you feeling ashamed.

Whether the experience of feeling ashamed is filling a familiar childhood need and so psychologically satisfying because it's familiar (not enjoyable consciously), or repeating a dynamic in the unconscious hope that for once you will not feel ashamed, I don't know.

It might be worth thinking about other times you've done this sort of thing: what were you feeling in therapy that may have prompted these urges?

I don't think it has anything to do with curiosity, nor wanting to be part of your T's life. It just feels like a deeper drive than that.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I know. I want to believe like some posters do, that it's all right because googling is so common and it's the public domain, but in my heart I know I shouldn't have read everything I did. Unless. I asked. First. T said maybe she wouldn't have minded that I drove past her house ( this was about 5 years ago, not recently) if I would have asked permission first. I should have asked if I could read her daughter's writing. When I saw T's art show. I thought she'd be angry, but she was pleased, instead. She's pretty open to answering my questions but I never thought to ask first. I wish she'd punish me. I don't where that wish comes from. But she'll probably say it's not so terrible. I hope...

You don't have to tell her, right?

I'll try to explain this as I'm seeing it. There are plenty of things we all do in private that are okay. Bowel movements, passing gas and adjusting undergarments come to mind. Nothing to be ashamed of, but socially these things are not okay to talk about. Some people don't mind hearing about it, while others as loving and caring as they may be, get put off. It's not the doing it that is the problem, its the talking about it.

I believe that looking up anything is totally fine. But if I had a friend or coworkers who approached me and told me they looked me up a lot and found pictures of my family, house, children and so on I'd be upset. The unease for me would be around someone broaching the societal norm of talking about it, not so much that they were doing it in the first place. If it's harmless I'd rather not know.

Just my opinion!

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I wish she'd punish me. I don't where that wish comes from.

This^ was the first thing I thought of. I know that kids will experience whatever attention they get from their parents as nurturing, even when it's abusive because bad attention is better than no attention. The need to be seen is so compelling that a child will do whatever they must to fill that need. I just wonder if on some level you are feeling less seen by your T and so you've been compelled to do the one thing that is pretty sure to bring you attention (punishment) that leaves you feeling ashamed.

Whether the experience of feeling ashamed is filling a familiar childhood need and so psychologically satisfying because it's familiar (not enjoyable consciously), or repeating a dynamic in the unconscious hope that for once you will not feel ashamed, I don't know.

It might be worth thinking about other times you've done this sort of thing: what were you feeling in therapy that may have prompted these urges?

I don't think it has anything to do with curiosity, nor wanting to be part of your T's life. It just feels like a deeper drive than that.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I wish she'd punish me. I don't where that wish comes from. But she'll probably say it's not so terrible. I hope...

Kids do this because they'll take any kind of attention, even negative. In fact, the more negative the better because the reaction is stronger and more dramatic for them. Are you going for reaction? Any kind of reaction as a way to "feel" the connection? You keep saying your attachment to your T is "secure" now, but it isn't coming across that way in many of your posts. You are still very focused on that connection and attachment, so it still seems rather insecure. You may not agree with that I realize, but it is something I've noticed a lot out of your posts in the last few months

[awkwardlyyours]

I am also wondering if you've talked about guilt to your therapist? Guilt in general and the extent to which it plays a role in your life and how you perceive it (so, it's utility, validity and so on) -- so, not necessarily guilt related to specific actions?

I wondered at first (rather obviously) if your need to be close was basically a need to not feel distant and since guilt can make one feel distant, getting rid of the guilt by confessing is basically a way of crossing that distance? But, maybe it's something else?

As for just the act of internet searching, I know that anything I say or other folks say about it being right or wrong won't make a difference since it's something only you can decide for yourself.

But, suffice to say that if there's a level below harmless, that's where I'd place what you did. And, I'm saying this as someone who has been accosted by total strangers (sometimes in rather creepy ways) who've searched and followed me online (with my real name having a rather minimal online footprint, that's a lot of determination) about everything ranging from my work to outside interests and even my sexuality.

So, at this point, I sort of just take it for granted that it's what people do and as long as no one is being actually threatened, it's not even something I register as significant.

[Chummy]

Originally Posted by SoConfused623

I was so curious about my T that I poked around on her FB and then looked at her relatives FB pages and pictures until I found out all kinds of stuff that I shouldn't know.

I did this too. I didn't found a lot. Most of their profiles is private. I don't feel guilty about this. I think googling her is ok. If you don't want everyone to see something, then you shouldn't post it on the internet. Or you should make it private. Looking at her boyfriends and their sibblings FB pages, that was maybe a bit out of line.

I'm not going to tell her this. It wouldn't help anything. I'm not a danger to her or anyone, just a bit curious about her. I did told her that today. I'm really curious about who she is, what she likes, what she does in her spare time. She told me to think about why I want to know this so bad and what would it do for me if I know those things.

[SoConfused623]

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

You don't have to tell her, right?

I'll try to explain this as I'm seeing it. There are plenty of things we all do in private that are okay. Bowel movements, passing gas and adjusting undergarments come to mind. Nothing to be ashamed of, but socially these things are not okay to talk about. Some people don't mind hearing about it, while others as loving and caring as they may be, get put off. It's not the doing it that is the problem, its the talking about it.

I believe that looking up anything is totally fine. But if I had a friend or coworkers who approached me and told me they looked me up a lot and found pictures of my family, house, children and so on I'd be upset. The unease for me would be around someone broaching the societal norm of talking about it, not so much that they were doing it in the first place. If it's harmless I'd rather not know.

Just my opinion!

Great response!

[AllHeart]

I creep on my t's kids facebook pages once in a while strictly out of curiosity. No big deal. It's human nature to have these curiosities I think. And anything put on the internet is fair game for anyone to see. Those are the rules of the world wide web. I would never tell my t I do this but if she ever asked I'd answer honestly. I figure why make mountains out of molehills, ya know?

[retro_chic]

I have gone really out of my way to look up my T on Facebook. Her profile is very private but her husband's is not. He posts photos pretty often and I can sometimes see what my T gets up to on weekends. I can also see comments my T makes and she has a good sense of humour. I've found out all sorts of things about my T like where she lives and that she has two young daughters and that she is good friends with the other T's that share the office space where she works. I like seeing that she's happy and seems to have a good and balanced life; it makes me feel more confident that she can help me to achieve this one day too.

I don't think I will ever tell her about all this though

[nottrustin]

I think it is normal to search our providers. In fact T told me she researches all her providers. I don't know to what extent she does though (facebook, etc). She tells me a lot about her personal life including her child and boyfriend. She has shown and emailed me pictures of them. I have also met her boyfriend a few times. One time in public the rest of the times at her home/office. He thinks I am a friend of hers as it was not during office hours and whenever we refer to each other to other people we have agreed to say we are a friend...even though we are not really friends. So I doubt she would be surprised to know I have checked out her son and boyfriend's facebook pages and a few other things. We just don't discuss it.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I wish she'd punish me. I don't where that wish comes from.

This^ was the first thing I thought of. I know that kids will experience whatever attention they get from their parents as nurturing, even when it's abusive because bad attention is better than no attention. The need to be seen is so compelling that a child will do whatever they must to fill that need. I just wonder if on some level you are feeling less seen by your T and so you've been compelled to do the one thing that is pretty sure to bring you attention (punishment) that leaves you feeling ashamed.

Whether the experience of feeling ashamed is filling a familiar childhood need and so psychologically satisfying because it's familiar (not enjoyable consciously), or repeating a dynamic in the unconscious hope that for once you will not feel ashamed, I don't know.

It might be worth thinking about other times you've done this sort of thing: what were you feeling in therapy that may have prompted these urges?

I don't think it has anything to do with curiosity, nor wanting to be part of your T's life. It just feels like a deeper drive than that.

Thanks, feral. I agree that my pattern of doing these things and confessing is something deep. This time I had no intention of telling her, though. I was okay with accepting that Googling is common. It was only when we were discussing what T's daughter had in common with mine that I felt like I wanted to tell her. I wanted to be able to say "Our d's have similar interests." or rather, I wanted T to say that. It brought up the limits of our relationship.

As far as confessing, I'm not judging others, but I feel like hiding the fact that I know this information is wrong, and detrimental to the integrity of the relationship I have with my T. I feel like I'm disappointing her and will be relieved to tell her. Maybe you're right about wanting the attention too, but confessing seems like something I'm compelled to do for the sake of honesty, and yes, testing to see if she "loves me anyway".

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

You don't have to tell her, right?

I'll try to explain this as I'm seeing it. There are plenty of things we all do in private that are okay. Bowel movements, passing gas and adjusting undergarments come to mind. Nothing to be ashamed of, but socially these things are not okay to talk about. Some people don't mind hearing about it, while others as loving and caring as they may be, get put off. It's not the doing it that is the problem, its the talking about it.

I believe that looking up anything is totally fine. But if I had a friend or coworkers who approached me and told me they looked me up a lot and found pictures of my family, house, children and so on I'd be upset. The unease for me would be around someone broaching the societal norm of talking about it, not so much that they were doing it in the first place. If it's harmless I'd rather not know.

Just my opinion!

I understand but therapy is therapy, not real life. I have a need to be totally honest with my T about everything, even about bodily functions sometimes! This time I WAS going to keep what I found out about T's d to myself, but the conversation in my session made that impossible for me.

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Kids do this because they'll take any kind of attention, even negative. In fact, the more negative the better because the reaction is stronger and more dramatic for them. Are you going for reaction? Any kind of reaction as a way to "feel" the connection? You keep saying your attachment to your T is "secure" now, but it isn't coming across that way in many of your posts. You are still very focused on that connection and attachment, so it still seems rather insecure. You may not agree with that I realize, but it is something I've noticed a lot out of your posts in the last few months

I don't know if I'm going for reaction this time. The urge to tell came from a specific interaction in my session, which triggered my guilt and also wish for a reciprocity that I know is not part of the deal. When I was out-of-town recently, I was aware of how I didn't "need" my T. I believe I do have a secure attachment to her but of course you're entitled to view it differently.

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

I am also wondering if you've talked about guilt to your therapist? Guilt in general and the extent to which it plays a role in your life and how you perceive it (so, it's utility, validity and so on) -- so, not necessarily guilt related to specific actions?

I wondered at first (rather obviously) if your need to be close was basically a need to not feel distant and since guilt can make one feel distant, getting rid of the guilt by confessing is basically a way of crossing that distance? But, maybe it's something else?

As for just the act of internet searching, I know that anything I say or other folks say about it being right or wrong won't make a difference since it's something only you can decide for yourself.

But, suffice to say that if there's a level below harmless, that's where I'd place what you did. And, I'm saying this as someone who has been accosted by total strangers (sometimes in rather creepy ways) who've searched and followed me online (with my real name having a rather minimal online footprint, that's a lot of determination) about everything ranging from my work to outside interests and even my sexuality.

So, at this point, I sort of just take it for granted that it's what people do and as long as no one is being actually threatened, it's not even something I register as significant.

No, I haven't talked much about guilt except regarding my husband. Guilt and wanting to be punished seem worth exploring. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Chummy

I did this too. I didn't found a lot. Most of their profiles is private. I don't feel guilty about this. I think googling her is ok. If you don't want everyone to see something, then you shouldn't post it on the internet. Or you should make it private. Looking at her boyfriends and their sibblings FB pages, that was maybe a bit out of line.

I'm not going to tell her this. It wouldn't help anything. I'm not a danger to her or anyone, just a bit curious about her. I did told her that today. I'm really curious about who she is, what she likes, what she does in her spare time. She told me to think about why I want to know this so bad and what would it do for me if I know those things.

I don't understand how it's possible not to tell eventually. Hiding things eats away at me though I wish it didn't! My T likes to ask what the information does for me too.

Originally Posted by SoConfused623

Great response!

Originally Posted by AllHeart

I creep on my t's kids facebook pages once in a while strictly out of curiosity. No big deal. It's human nature to have these curiosities I think. And anything put on the internet is fair game for anyone to see. Those are the rules of the world wide web. I would never tell my t I do this but if she ever asked I'd answer honestly. I figure why make mountains out of molehills, ya know?

I just at some point feel guilty and can't stop myself from telling.

Originally Posted by retro_chic

I have gone really out of my way to look up my T on Facebook. Her profile is very private but her husband's is not. He posts photos pretty often and I can sometimes see what my T gets up to on weekends. I can also see comments my T makes and she has a good sense of humour. I've found out all sorts of things about my T like where she lives and that she has two young daughters and that she is good friends with the other T's that share the office space where she works. I like seeing that she's happy and seems to have a good and balanced life; it makes me feel more confident that she can help me to achieve this one day too.

I don't think I will ever tell her about all this though

I'm glad it helps you to see the information and you don't feel the need to tell.

Originally Posted by nottrustin

I think it is normal to search our providers. In fact T told me she researches all her providers. I don't know to what extent she does though (facebook, etc). She tells me a lot about her personal life including her child and boyfriend. She has shown and emailed me pictures of them. I have also met her boyfriend a few times. One time in public the rest of the times at her home/office. He thinks I am a friend of hers as it was not during office hours and whenever we refer to each other to other people we have agreed to say we are a friend...even though we are not really friends. So I doubt she would be surprised to know I have checked out her son and boyfriend's facebook pages and a few other things. We just don't discuss it.

If my T told me more. I wouldn't feel like I have to look things up! She will tell me when I ask, but doesn't disclose much. She told me her bf's first name. I know she knew I'd Google him if I knew his last name!

T didn't respond to my email where I said I was bothered and she was going to be upset with me. I will have to wait for Tuesday. I'm starting to think it's only Googling and she won't be angry. She'll want to know all of my feelings about it, and I sure have a lot!

[velcro003]

I mainly find it fascinating that T's are on FB, or at least on it so client's can see stuff...anything, really. My T is a ghost on the internet. Does not exist.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by velcro003

I mainly find it fascinating that T's are on FB, or at least on it so client's can see stuff...anything, really. My T is a ghost on the internet. Does not exist.

My T doesn't have much on FB but one of her d's does. Most I found by googling. It's not that THEY put it online, but the places they write something for, did it.

[feralkittymom]

It was only when we were discussing what T's daughter had in common with mine that I felt like I wanted to tell her. I wanted to be able to say "Our d's have similar interests." or rather, I wanted T to say that. It brought up the limits of our relationship.

But the thing is, you brought up your daughter and her interest--like baiting the hook for your guilt. You steered the conversation there. That's why I think the need is deep.

Maybe you're right about wanting the attention too, but confessing seems like something I'm compelled to do for the sake of honesty, and yes, testing to see if she "loves me anyway".

I don't think it's about honesty exactly; if it were, given that you feel it's wrong to be searching, you wouldn't feel the need to do it. And you've said many times that you feel no need to test her. I think it's not so much about getting attention as about re-experiencing shame in her presence. I just don't know what need that fulfills or is trying to correct. You've often posted about experiencing shame feelings in sessions, but I don't recall your thoughts on where the shame originates.

[unaluna]

This is very basic but not easy psychodynamic and attachment stuff, from winnicott and john watsisname mobley marley stg like that. Can mummy survive baby's anger / independence? Its very scary for the baby. I was afraid to decrease my appointments - would he still be there? Its not a matter of tell or dont tell - its trying to figure out what it means to you.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

It was only when we were discussing what T's daughter had in common with mine that I felt like I wanted to tell her. I wanted to be able to say "Our d's have similar interests." or rather, I wanted T to say that. It brought up the limits of our relationship.

But the thing is, you brought up your daughter and her interest--like baiting the hook for your guilt. You steered the conversation there. That's why I think the need is deep.

Maybe you're right about wanting the attention too, but confessing seems like something I'm compelled to do for the sake of honesty, and yes, testing to see if she "loves me anyway".

I don't think it's about honesty exactly; if it were, given that you feel it's wrong to be searching, you wouldn't feel the need to do it. And you've said many times that you feel no need to test her. I think it's not so much about getting attention as about re-experiencing shame in her presence. I just don't know what need that fulfills or is trying to correct. You've often posted about experiencing shame feelings in sessions, but I don't recall your thoughts on where the shame originates.

No, I didn't bring it up first. My T did. It was about something my D did for me and at first I wasn't thinking about her D at all.
Shame could be relevant. I have to think about that. Thank you for suggesting that aspect.
I'm honest, but the wanting to know more about T and her family overrides that.