Yesterday I was talking with T about my desire to feel connected to him all the time. He asked me how that felt in my body and it was hard for me to stop cogitating and start listening to my body but when I did I realised I could feel in my hands and arms a yearning desire to reach out to him physically.
I would never have predicted what he said next. He said he had thought about touch boundaries with me and even though he felt a little anxious about whether it was going to 'lead to tricky territory' he is open to the idea of using touch in therapy.
I'm not exactly sure what he is offering, and we didn't really talk specifics, but I did say that if we were to go down that road we would have to be very explicit about boundaries which he agreed.
Having thought about what it is I do need, I feel like I would benefit from some kind of hand holding, specifically when I lower my guard and allow myself to experience feelings rather than thoughts, especially when dealing with early experiences and attachment. Whenever I do that I seem to very quickly get to the edge of dissociation. It seems to me that the dissociation is less likely if I am physically holding his hand and that might help me to lower those defences.
So I'm interested in people's thoughts and/or experiences around this. I have been reading lots but it's all from a therapist's perspective and I'm interested to know how touch in therapy is experienced from a client's perspective, as well as any thoughts about my T's offer.
Both reassurance/positive experience and words of caution/negative experience equally valued.

[stopdog]

The first therapist I ever saw, about 30 years ago, wanted to hold me while I cried. As I cannot cry on command, it never happened plus the idea creeped me out. (They do always get caught up in crying when dealing with me - maybe they want to cry).
I don't like hand holding at all with anyone. I reserve such activity for keeping small children from running into traffic (and since I have little access to small children -it is an infrequent situation for me).

I do think it is worth trying if you think it would be useful. The only caution I can see is if you like it and the therapist decides to withdraw - that seems to cause all sorts of issues. Or if you did not like it, would you be afraid to tell the therapist to stop it.

[Ellahmae]

T and I have never specifically talked about touch in therapy or boundaries around it. I reach out when I need her to hold my hand and she gratefully holds it. She rubs me on the shoulder when I am dissociating to bring me back. She gives me wonderful hugs at the end of each session. Sometimes she'll hold my hand and walk me to my car to make sure I make it there (I've been known to 'wander away'). If I'm super tense and can't un-clench my hands she'll help me by rubbing them and coaxing them free. All of these things just happened. All of these things have been extremely connecting and healing. Just my experience with it. I do know that she's uncomfortable with touch in therapy but with me it's just natural and just happens I don't hold back when reaching out and she's always there to receive and return.

[musinglizzy]

I think you know my story.... T1 used touch up until a bit over a year ago. She offered to come sit by me, hold me, help me stay in the moment rather than dissociate. She decided to stop that abruptly, she never told me she was taking it away, I just noticed and eventually brought it up to her. She purposely stopped it, and just let me realize it rather than talk to me about it. It has been very VERY damaging to me, even now, over a year later. So in came T2, to help me deal with my feelings with T1, and then I found T3. Turns out T3 is a bit of a Godsend. She is a SE therapist, but she's also a massage therapist and uses bodywork in psychotherapy. I'm loving it! I hear that's not very common, to get bodywork and therapy from the same person (and T1 is actually skeptical of her....since I told her....I think she's feeling a little threatened)

I find touch very helpful, and I guess my T1 had it right when she said I was trying to find someone to fill the void that my therapy with her, and her boundary changes, left when she took things away. But, it's working for me. I find it extremely helpful.

Originally Posted by stopdog

The first therapist I ever saw, about 30 years ago, wanted to hold me while I cried. As I cannot cry on command, it never happened plus the idea creeped me out. (They do always get caught up in crying when dealing with me - maybe they want to cry).
I don't like hand holding at all with anyone. I reserve such activity for keeping small children from running into traffic (and since I have little access to small children -it is an infrequent situation for me).

I do think it is worth trying if you think it would be useful. The only caution I can see is if you like it and the therapist decides to withdraw - that seems to cause all sorts of issues. Or if you did not like it, would you be afraid to tell the therapist to stop it.

Thanks stopdog, that's a really useful perspective. I think I would have to tell him from the outset not to offer anything he would later withdraw as I would perceive that as a massive rejection. He's well aware of how harmful touch-related rejection was to me with T1 (when I asked him for a hug and he said no) so hopefully he would take that very seriously.
I'm pretty sure I would be able to speak up if I didn't want it any more. In fact he asked me whether he should offer it or wait for me to ask and I told him I don't want him to offer,so that leaves the control with me.

[doogie]

I am a female and my T is a female. As our relationship has grown, she has increased comforting touch - sitting close, hand on back when upset, hug after every session. During one particularly difficult session I did lay my head on her shoulder for a very brief time. It helps me when I am upset and it feels appropriate to the situation. There is not touching unless it is comforting (except hugs at end of session.) I think it depends on the personality of therapist and how much trust/level of comfort you have with your T.

Originally Posted by Ellahmae

T and I have never specifically talked about touch in therapy or boundaries around it. I reach out when I need her to hold my hand and she gratefully holds it. She rubs me on the shoulder when I am dissociating to bring me back. She gives me wonderful hugs at the end of each session. Sometimes she'll hold my hand and walk me to my car to make sure I make it there (I've been known to 'wander away'). If I'm super tense and can't un-clench my hands she'll help me by rubbing them and coaxing them free. All of these things just happened. All of these things have been extremely connecting and healing. Just my experience with it. I do know that she's uncomfortable with touch in therapy but with me it's just natural and just happens I don't hold back when reaching out and she's always there to receive and return.

Thanks Ellahmae, how interesting that she is uncomfortable with it. Has she said that to you, and do you know whether she uses it with other clients. T said he doesn't generally use touch much which makes me feel kinda nice!

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

I think you know my story.... T1 used touch up until a bit over a year ago. She offered to come sit by me, hold me, help me stay in the moment rather than dissociate. She decided to stop that abruptly, she never told me she was taking it away, I just noticed and eventually brought it up to her. She purposely stopped it, and just let me realize it rather than talk to me about it. It has been very VERY damaging to me, even now, over a year later. So in came T2, to help me deal with my feelings with T1, and then I found T3. Turns out T3 is a bit of a Godsend. She is a SE therapist, but she's also a massage therapist and uses bodywork in psychotherapy. I'm loving it! I hear that's not very common, to get bodywork and therapy from the same person (and T1 is actually skeptical of her....since I told her....I think she's feeling a little threatened)

I find touch very helpful, and I guess my T1 had it right when she said I was trying to find someone to fill the void that my therapy with her, and her boundary changes, left when she took things away. But, it's working for me. I find it extremely helpful.

I am familiar with your experiences with T1, and I'm glad you've responded to my thread, thank you. I'm so glad to hear you are having a positive experience with another T, that must be very healing after feeling rejected by T1. My T said he decided his position on touch with me after I told him about being rejected by (my) T1, so part of me wonders if that would help heal those wounds or whether I would start drawing comparisons, reigniting all the rejection stuff.

[Ellahmae]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

Thanks Ellahmae, how interesting that she is uncomfortable with it. Has she said that to you, and do you know whether she uses it with other clients. T said he doesn't generally use touch much which makes me feel kinda nice!

She has talked about how I am the only client it feels right with (still wondering if it's her needs getting met as well since I've been called the daughter she never had.... another story). She has mentioned how she has clients try to hug her and come in her space and she has to tell them no because it makes her uncomfortable (she doesn't say to the actual client it makes her uncomfortable but goes the why do you feel that way, blah blah blah route). It does make me feel special and nice that it is natural and doesn't bother her to do it with me. I read people ridiculously well so if she was uncomfortable I would know it, and she's not. I would say 75% of the time she reaches out first. I am the only one she touches in therapy or is allowed in her 'space'.

Originally Posted by doogie

I am a female and my T is a female. As our relationship has grown, she has increased comforting touch - sitting close, hand on back when upset, hug after every session. During one particularly difficult session I did lay my head on her shoulder for a very brief time. It helps me when I am upset and it feels appropriate to the situation. There is not touching unless it is comforting (except hugs at end of session.) I think it depends on the personality of therapist and how much trust/level of comfort you have with your T.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad you mentioned gender because I think that does play into it. I'm constantly terrified he is going to think I have sexual feelings towards him because I did have sexualfeelings feelings towards T1 and my current T guessed that even though I told him I didn't. I don't want him to make that same assumption again, because I truly don't.

[ilikecats]

My T doesn't do any touch other than high fives. I really wish she did. If mine offered it like yours is, I'd definitely take advantage of that. But I'd also want to make sure it'd be a permanent thing and that she wouldn't change her mind about it later.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Ellahmae

She has talked about how I am the only client it feels right with (still wondering if it's her needs getting met as well since I've been called the daughter she never had.... another story). She has mentioned how she has clients try to hug her and come in her space and she has to tell them no because it makes her uncomfortable (she doesn't say to the actual client it makes her uncomfortable but goes the why do you feel that way, blah blah blah route). It does make me feel special and nice that it is natural and doesn't bother her to do it with me. I read people ridiculously well so if she was uncomfortable I would know it, and she's not. I would say 75% of the time she reaches out first. I am the only one she touches in therapy or is allowed in her 'space'.

I am worried about it being about his needs. Looking back on the session I remembered him saying (before I mentioned touch) "can you get in touch with what those feelings are? Touch - a bit of a clue there" so I wondered if this is something he was already wanting to raise, but I don't know. Also he mentioned T1 hug rejection, and he has said in the past he felt slightly competitive with T1 in the beginning. He's also admitted to paternal feelings towards me.
But I know he's very self-aware; he's even written a book on the unconscious of the therapist and its effect on therapy. So I do trust him. It's hard to work out.

[BayBrony]

My T and I use touch copiously and it came on gradually. We have never discussed boundaries I'm guessing since my T doesn't seem to have many and/or we haven't had an Issue.
I don't get anything I can't straight come out and ask for so it started with post session hugs. Then we moved on to body/energy work--- so she does work on freeing up energy in my body which is sort of like a very gentle massage.
As we started doing more inner child work we added snuggling at the end of my sessions. So at about 15,minutes left she will sit on the floor . I put my head in her lap and she rubs/scratches my back and neck. Sometimes we use this time to talk about sensitive issues in our relationship. Sometimes she uses it to tell Mr how much I'm loved. Then usually I'll snuggle into her side and she holds me for a few minutes. Also Im super ticklish and LOVE being tickled so there is usually some tickling thrown in there somewhere. If I really feel sad about leaving I'll hold on and refuse to.let go and then she will tickle me til I let go which takes the sting out of having to leave.

For me there hasn't been a negative side. I had a rely neglectful and abusive childhood and the loving touch is teaching me to take in nourishment, to accept love, and to learn how to love and comfort myself when I alone.

I've been with my T for 4,years. We've been doing the touch for 2. Its been transforming for me

[junkDNA]

my T and i dont touch very much. when we do it's a hug or he touches my back or rubs my arm or something. or hes hitting me on the head with something (like a piece of paper). holding his hand would freak me out tbh. and i would never ask to. i could see it becoming triggering and alarming for me if he brought up holding my hand or something like that. ( i dont think he ever would)

Touch never really came up as a discussion as to whether allow touch or not, but all were very careful, particularly if I was upset, to ask and let me know before they touched me because of my background. I had no problem with a hug at the end of a session; I just saw my T in the grocery store a few days ago and we just naturally reached out and gave each other a hug. But if I was really upset, dissociated, etc., the warning and/or permission was a must. Fortunately, they all seemed to know to do that on their own.

I would think if a withdrawal of touch would be a crushing blow, then starting with touch could really be a risky venture. For me, touch wasn't something I longed for or needed in therapy, so occasional touch was nice and appropriate and supportive and helpful in the moment, but whether it happened again or not really wasn't something I even thought about. I think the danger for you is that you would equate touch as acceptance and affection and lack of touch later as rejection. In that case, it might be best to find other ways to deal with the issue. We've seen over and over here people who really suffered when touch was withdrawn because therapist became uncomfortable with it or felt clients depended too much on it from them. Tread lightly on this one.

For me a hug seems more intimate. I'm thinking of hand holding looking something like carl rogers in this clip:

at about 15:10 in the clip (but probably without the eye contact!)

[Waterbear]

I have always had (over 20 years) a deep longing to be physically comforted by a mother figure who was also willing to listen to me and hear my story, to know me and to there to guide me and support me. I have over the years tried to find other sources but with no success. I have my H but that leads to the whole other thing that I don't want to talk about.... I have tried comforting myself and using blankets, soft toys, holding my own hand etc. I have tried bringing other people into my life but no one else has the patience needed (this will take years I think) to get that close.

I wrote my T a letter specifically asking for what I felt I needed and part of that included touch when the time was right. For her to hold my hand and put her arm around me, to hold me while i cry etc. A lot of it is to do with my feelings of self worth. Inside I believe I am untouchable and that the only reason someone would want to touch me would be to hurt me or because it is the social norm (ie a brief hug from family when saying goodbye - there is nothing else there if that makes sense).

It is something I explicitly asked the New Ts when I met for the first time because to get down the line, to build trust and then to ask and be rejected would feed into those negative thoughts. New T has said she does see a place for touch in the therapeutic environment, as did a few of the others I saw so it is not uncommon, just not 'normal' for want of a better word I think. The responses varied hugely from 'it will not help you' to 'yes I use it when appropriate' with everything in between.

Of course there are risks, there are risks involved with everything in life but dies that mean we don't live? No, it means we carry out dynamic risk assesments each and every day and take steps to protect ourselves to the best of our ability while still achieving what we want to achieve. Each of us have different levels of tolerances for different things. I wanted to skydive once so I was willing to accept the risk that I might die. Someone else who does not want to do it as badly may not be willing to take that risk.

It is personal, for us and for Ts. I fully understand if a T is not comfortable with it but it feels necessary for me which is why I chose a T who was. There will be a lot of thinking for you to do but maybe go with your gut on this one as it can be quite a primal thing and we can't reason away things that are that deep.

For me, in a perfect world I would see touch being 'withdrawn' as quite a natural event because my issues surrounding it had reduced. If I had got to a point where safe touch felt 'normal' then I would not need it so much. Makes sense to me anyway. Obviously if a T withdrew without discussion it would be harmful but if they withdrew because they were not comfortable and had that discussion with me then I think it would be OK. You have to respect the other person too.

[LonesomeTonight]

I had just assumed that my T didn't use touch or give hugs because she never had to me (except a hug before the holidays). But then at some point last year, I made a comment about that and how I knew from these forums that some T's hug and some don't. She said that she does hug some clients. It took me a few sessions before I could ask why she didn't hug me, and she said it was because of my maternal transference. I was really hurt by that, like I was being punished for having some level of transference for her (and it wasn't nearly as intense as for MC).

Toward the end of last year, I noticed she often touched me briefly on the arm when I left, which she'd never done before. It felt nice and affectionate, but I was afraid to comment on the fact that I liked that because I didn't want her to realize what she was doing and stop. Before she was going to leave on Christmas break, when I was also going through a rough time, she gave me a very warm hug, which surprised me (even though she'd done that the year before). I ended up seeing her again the day before she left, and got another hug.

No hugs the sessions after that. A month or two later, when I was feeling particularly upset, when it was time to leave, I was like, "I'd like to ask for a hug, but I figure you'll say no. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that." And she was like "Of course you can have a hug! You don't ever need to apologize for asking for a hug." And she gave me one. We've hugged a couple times since then, one after we sort of "made up" after a minor rupture. I try to only request when I feel I really want/need one. Maybe I'm afraid they won't be as meaningful if they happen every time? She often does the arm/shoulder touch thing, which is nice. I'm not sure what changed her stance, but I'm happy about it. (Will do separate MC post.)

Originally Posted by Waterbear

Of course there are risks, there are risks involved with everything in life but dies that mean we don't live? No, it means we carry out dynamic risk assesments each and every day and take steps to protect ourselves to the best of our ability while still achieving what we want to achieve. Each of us have different levels of tolerances for different things. I wanted to skydive once so I was willing to accept the risk that I might die. Someone else who does not want to do it as badly may not be willing to take that risk.

It is personal, for us and for Ts. I fully understand if a T is not comfortable with it but it feels necessary for me which is why I chose a T who was. There will be a lot of thinking for you to do but maybe go with your gut on this one as it can be quite a primal thing and we can't reason away things that are that deep.

Thank you for your thoughtful post and encouragement. This is such a good way to think about it, I suppose I sometimes put therapy in a bit of a bubble and forget it's only a risk in the same sense everything else is. That is really helpful.

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I had just assumed that my T didn't use touch or give hugs because she never had to me (except a hug before the holidays). But then at some point last year, I made a comment about that and how I knew from these forums that some T's hug and some don't. She said that she does hug some clients. It took me a few sessions before I could ask why she didn't hug me, and she said it was because of my maternal transference. I was really hurt by that, like I was being punished for having some level of transference for her (and it wasn't nearly as intense as for MC).

Toward the end of last year, I noticed she often touched me briefly on the arm when I left, which she'd never done before. It felt nice and affectionate, but I was afraid to comment on the fact that I liked that because I didn't want her to realize what she was doing and stop. Before she was going to leave on Christmas break, when I was also going through a rough time, she gave me a very warm hug, which surprised me (even though she'd done that the year before). I ended up seeing her again the day before she left, and got another hug.

No hugs the sessions after that. A month or two later, when I was feeling particularly upset, when it was time to leave, I was like, "I'd like to ask for a hug, but I figure you'll say no. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that." And she was like "Of course you can have a hug! You don't ever need to apologize for asking for a hug." And she gave me one. We've hugged a couple times since then, one after we sort of "made up" after a minor rupture. I try to only request when I feel I really want/need one. Maybe I'm afraid they won't be as meaningful if they happen every time? She often does the arm/shoulder touch thing, which is nice. I'm not sure what changed her stance, but I'm happy about it. (Will do separate MC post.)

Sounds like a good therapist who knew to take the time to really know a client before deciding how to proceed with touch. Your T, after time, probably saw that some touch on occasion would be okay for you and introduced in that way.

I think where some therapists go wrong is providing too much touch or too much contact, etc. too soon, before they really have a good feel for a client, and then when they see it cause problems for the client have to backtrack which creates even more problems and it all snowballs into a mess.

[BayBrony]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Sounds like a good therapist who knew to take the time to really know a client before deciding how to proceed with touch. Your T, after time, probably saw that some touch on occasion would be okay for you and introduced in that way.

I think where some therapists go wrong is providing too much touch or too much contact, etc. too soon, before they really have a good feel for a client, and then when they see it cause problems for the client have to backtrack which creates even more problems and it all snowballs into a mess.

This. I respect how slowly we came along to the use of touch. Also the fact that I had to be able to verbally ask for what I thought I needed ( she never suggested it , she only have ideas as to how we could meet the needs I brought up) meant that issues around touch-- transference, triggers, etc --were generally addressed before I was able to clear the hurdle of actually ASKING for what I needed.. The only thing we couldn't address ahead of time is I actually sensitive to small relationship changes including in how I am touched. So we have had issues when I have felt like she touches me less and that can worry me.

[Ellahmae]

She does call herself my mom but due to our last discussions on unethical t attachment to clients and having to deal with her attachment feelings on her own time I feel she is managing it properly and allowing me to get what I need. We have a different relationship then all of her other clients as we've discussed it and I've seen her with other clients (before my session after theirs and I can see the difference, nothing unethical said or done in public just her mannerisms and body language) and there is a distinct difference. I do agree with you, it is hard to work out and it's something I bring up in session often. I would trust what you know with him and do what you think is best for you. I would discuss it with him for a couple more sessions before making a decision. However, if I had the decision and it hadn't naturally occurred it probably wouldn't be what it is now and I would have missed out on a lot of healing because I wouldn't have allowed it.

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

I am worried about it being about his needs. Looking back on the session I remembered him saying (before I mentioned touch) "can you get in touch with what those feelings are? Touch - a bit of a clue there" so I wondered if this is something he was already wanting to raise, but I don't know. Also he mentioned T1 hug rejection, and he has said in the past he felt slightly competitive with T1 in the beginning. He's also admitted to paternal feelings towards me.
But I know he's very self-aware; he's even written a book on the unconscious of the therapist and its effect on therapy. So I do trust him. It's hard to work out.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My ex ex-T used to sit next to me and hold my hand when she would read my journal. I thought if she read something she reacted to, I could feel her movement in her hands. That and it was comforting. We would hug at the end of every session.

Ex-T would never hold my hand. She said she reserved that for her family only. But she did rub my shoulder, arm, or leg to comfort me. We also hugged at the end of sessions.

Current T doesn't do touch except for hugs at the end of every session.

I crave touch from certain people. But I have found that for me it's better to not have so much touch in therapy. Don't get me wrong, I want more, but it only leads to a stronger dependency.

I think there is a place for touch in therapy. It can be very healing. Just make sure boundaries are in place, and hopefully your T doesn't go in reverse about it.

[atisketatasket]

I think if you discuss it extensively at first, including some of the concerns raised in the thread, it should be okay.

I don't want to be touched by a therapist. No. 1 often seemed to be playing a game to trick me into allowing her to touch me. It was like chess. She'd open the door in or out for me, and wait for me to go through so she could touch my back. I stopped that one day by gesturing her to go ahead of me and quipping, "Age before beauty."

And now I find myself keeping furniture between myself and No. 3, who once expressed an urge to hug and hold me.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I think if you discuss it extensively at first, including some of the concerns raised in the thread, it should be okay.

I don't want to be touched by a therapist. No. 1 often seemed to be playing a game to trick me into allowing her to touch me. It was like chess. She'd open the door in or out for me, and wait for me to go through so she could touch my back. I stopped that one day by gesturing her to go ahead of me and quipping, "Age before beauty."

And now I find myself keeping furniture between myself and No. 3, who once expressed an urge to hug and hold me.

I think therapists are like cats - they always want to rub on the people who don't like them/ want it at all.