In Session Today : Part III

I have found that I like the parts work because it allows me to put some distance between me and the internal conflict I almost constantly have in my life/head. It also helps me understand better why some things effect me in some way or why I respond the way I do sometimes. I do not believe that I have DID. I do have dissociation issues and my 3 main parts are clearly separate in emotional expressions and how I internally feel. I do not believe have some of the critical elements of DID for a dx. I do believe in DID and do not wish to diminish or minimize the experience of those who have DID.

Not at all, tmc. I also do not have a history of horrific abuse. I was really just wanting to let you know that I relate to the fear of being perceived as attention-seeking, and also that I relate to the "I can't possibly have this because nothing that horrible ever happened to me".

And the shame is all mine, too. I don't know that my shame is any worse than that which others feel over other diagnoses. It's the usual don't-want-people-to-think-I-am-weak. Or that I am not competent or worthy of respect.

You were not at all shaming or doubting in your post.

I do have DID and don't take offense to anything you have said. I do think everyone has parts or aspects to their personality that have some degree of separateness to them. i.e. Pretty much everyone can relate to having a kid part, or a serious part, or a fun part or whatever. I think that is pretty normal of the human experience, because we all need to call upon different aspects of ourselves to adapt to different every day situations.
Then I think there is simply a sliding spectrum from there with normal but interrelated and inter-functional parts to the other extreme of having trauma, DID and amnesia.
I think it is pretty normal too with any amount of trauma, big or small, to separate parts of self to one degree or another. Again, on a sliding scale. I think there is an enormous scale of normal between 'having parts' and having DID. Also, the treatment isn't really that different in DID. It's still all about being compassionate with all aspects of your being/s; listening to your self/selves; respecting and honoring your self/selves. It's all the same really.

I don't generally post many details here, I don't like to share too much, but now that I am back on weekly, to get me used to going back, we do a text session every week in addition to my regular, it's nice

Today he was very busy with meetings etc and still made the time to do that with me, it was so nice. We talked a bit about some of the plans he has with my treatment going forward and I told him I was able to think of an answer to the question he asked me about ending therapy but I wont tell him it via text. (Not even sure I can say it in person but we will see)

Anyway, was a nice chat. I am really struggling with weekly, and of course in person, or even phone/video to get a voice from is better but this is better than nothing at all and I am glad he is willing to do with this with me.

E-mail exchange with T last night (which includes some details from MC session yesterday), following brief text exchange where I asked if call would be possible, but he said he couldn't last night and was leaving town for the weekend early this morning. But he said he would probably be able to respond to an e-mail either later that night (last night) or else, if crisis, tonight (even though he'd be out of town).

Me:
Hi Dr. T,

Thanks for taking time to read this. I accept the $45, if you have time to respond. Just having trouble coping after the session with MC today. I just keep crying...and don't feel like eating anything.

I tried to open with what you and I had talked about--that I felt like his comment in the e-mail of "I'm not perfect, of course I will/have made mistakes" felt like a copout. He said he didn't understand what I was saying. I reworded it--he still didn't understand. Maybe I should have just gotten up and walked out then--I don't know... He ultimately kind of half-admitted to some mistakes...and gave me a few "If I did x, I'm sorry" apologies. I just don't know that he really understood what I was getting at--and I know that was a risk going in. He did admit (when I mentioned it) that he tends to be defensive when criticized.

I can fill in more details of what we discussed during our next session--there was a lot, since he kept us for an hour and 15 minutes. But there's one particular thing that's really upsetting me right now. MC confirmed that it was my e-mail saying "I love you" that was what led him to say we had to reduce contact. He'd initially thought it was romantic, and even though I sent the clarifying e-mail, which he read, he continued to think it was romantic (plus I told him on phone call, too). And he'd mistakenly thought I was requesting an individual session (even though I said "phone call" multiple times in writing!!!) and thought that wasn't appropriate. And apparently even once he realized I just wanted a phone call, he still felt he had to tighten boundaries and maybe shouldn't even do that.

I said how he'd responded to my love e-mail saying, "Yes, of course it's OK." But that obviously, it wasn't OK. Or he wouldn't have reacted that way. He said again today that it was OK, that my feelings were OK. But I said doesn't his reaction show that they aren't? I forget what he said to that. Aside from his not rejecting me in terms of not terminating me.

The problem is...I feel like this is just reinforcing my belief that I shouldn't share my true feelings with people. This is setting me back, not moving me forward...It's reinforcing that this is my fault...that I just become too much for people. That my loving someone is a scary, threatening thing, not a positive one... I mean, if a psychologist with 20-some years of experience can't handle it...

And I really should have brought this up on Tuesday, or the week before. (I did mention it in session today with MC) I think I told you about the high school teacher at one point, the journalism one, to whom I became fairly attached, shared feelings of connection with before graduation, etc. And contacted him a few times over summer, first semester of college. he's one of the people to whom I mailed a letter. So I had to call him (he'd given me his home number a while back) to tell him that I was OK, not to read letter--and then he said to never call his house again. Not, like, "I'm glad you're OK," just "Get out of my life."

So I was vulnerable and expressed feelings with a male authority figure, and he told me to go away. Which is what it felt like with MC last month. Like repeating that past pattern, which MC acknowledged when I shared today (but it's not like he said something like "I'm sorry for triggering that--I can understand why it hurts so much."). Trying to work through all this transference stuff, only to end up with a similar, painful ending (I know it's not the same thing, that MC isn't fully rejecting me, but it still echoes that in a painful way).

And of course I worry about the same ultimately happening with you...like if I were to develop transference or something...but that's something we can discuss in session.

Just now, while typing this, I was hoping to get support from H, but he just ended up yelling at me and retreating to kitchen to eat dinner, instead of here in living room. I tried asking him to come back, but he said no and seemed angry...Maybe it's because of the love stuff that came up in session? I don't know. I just feel like **** right now... At least D gave me a hug earlier...

So what am I looking for here? Validation and support, I suppose. Not, for example, your saying you understand why MC freaked out if he thought it might be romantic love, like you'd said before--I'm asking you to support me here, not him. Yeah, I'm kinda trying to dictate and control your response...but I also know what won't be helpful to me right at this moment--maybe a few weeks from now, we can examine that sort of thing, like the reasons behind his response, more rational, intellectual stuff. But right now, I'm kind of raw and emotional and hurt. So just want support. Whatever you have time to give, I'll appreciate.

Thanks,
LT"

I sent an addendum a bit later: "
Not sure if you meant you'd only reply tonight in terms of a crisis, or if it was tomorrow night. But realized I'm not sure what you define as "crisis."

Putting T's reply in separate post, because this is already really long!

T's response:
"LT,
Thank you for your clarifying email, and you're right about my not defining what a 'crisis' looks like. That's something else to put on the conversation list.

I'm very sorry that you didn't get any satisfaction or closure or even comfort out of the meeting with Dr MC. I had hoped you might be able to get some clarification but evidently Dr MC either didn't understand your question, didn't have a good answer for you - or an answer that made sense to you, or didn't want to directly answer your question(s). I can understand how frustrating that can be, and I can also appreciate that you are having trouble not redefining your entire relationship with Dr MC based on how you've been feeling these past few months. Hopefully, and I would like to support you in doing this, you will be able to parcel out the good and the bad and eventually end up holding the full experience of your work and feelings for him...which will include love, disappointment, gratitude, loss, and many other feelings as well. Coping with these conflicting feelings is painful and confusing. I'm glad that D came through with a hug (kid hugs are the best) and hopefully H will be able to share with you what his feelings are about when he is ready. Until then, I would look for those things that bring you peace and clarity. Maybe a little exercise or meditation, journaling, listening to music, playing with D, reading a good book, going for a walk, talk to your friends, etc. I would encourage you not to turn to alcohol, or at least not in excess.

I didn't recall hearing the story about this High School teacher. I'd have to re-read my notes - but would you do me the favor of reminding me about it when we are in session? There is clearly a pattern here that is worth exploring and understanding. Both Dr MC and this HS teacher are older men and also both are 'unavailable.' If either of them were to express and/or reciprocate your feelings of affection there would be dramatic repercussions to their lives and careers. In a way, you set yourself up for heartbreak by having these kinds of feelings since either man would have to give up both family and career to be with you. It's very sad and tragic that this happened - and has now happened to you again!

So you're aware, I'll be largely unavailable the next couple of days, but if you find yourself in a 'crisis' (again. yet to be defined) I will be checking email periodically. Of course there is always crisis intervention ([name of local crisis line]) and the hospital. Hopefully you will be able to remain safe until Monday, where I'd be able to meet you at my office.

I hope this email helps, and that you are able to get some rest. This too shall pass. You're alive and healthy, as is your daughter, and your husband may be upset but he's fought for your marriage by your side for a few years now and you share a life together. Have faith in your ability to cope and struggle through.

Sincerely,
T's standard signature

T today (switched to today from Tuesday since he had an opening). I thanked him for his e-mail response Friday and said I felt bad because it was a Friday night, that I worried I had been pushing him on it too much or something. He said he wouldn't have offered if he wasn't willing to do it. And that's generally how he is with things like that.

I said we had to figure out definition of a "crisis."
I said then Friday night wouldn't have classified to him as crisis. How for me, I'm more likely to reach out if, say, I can't stop crying, have trouble eating, basically if I can't function in my normal life (which is how I felt Friday night after the session). He said I was clearly in a high level of distress. That it can be good to come up with a list of things to do to help deal with that. Since I won't always be able to reach out, whether to him or someone else (well, aside from crisis line). I said I even felt like, if I was in a really bad place, I didn't want to rely on my H to give me what I needed, since I couldn't know how he'd react.

Then T shifted into existential mode. He said, "Oh, no, you can't rely on another person. Because when it comes down to it, you’re ultimately alone. You might be there with other people, but you’re alone in that you have to deal with feelings on your own. You face death alone. You might deal with serious illness or health issues alone." I wanted to say, "Uh...is that supposed to make me feel better?"

Talked about some different things I could do to help me if I'm feeling bad, like reading, listening to music. He talked about some stuff that helped him, like cleaning out a junk drawer, how you never know what you'll find, that you might find 40 wooden spoons. I said we might have one wooden spoon, and he said he guessed that was his issue then, not mine. He also mentioned how sometimes he'll read about a cause online then donate $10, how that's something I could do in the middle of the night, too. He said can be good to make a list of things to do.

Talked about the high school journalism teacher for whom I'd had transference. Shared more details of that with T, including how I'd given him a love poem not long before graduation. And how shortly after that, I'd had him sign a copy of the newspaper (like signing a yearbook). How he'd written something really kind, that I'd been one of his "special students," that some people make the world better just being in it and I was one of those people. T said that was a really sweet thing to say. I said yeah, though who knows, maybe he signed it in everyone's. T said he doubted it. He said maybe the teacher was kind of flirting with me at times, from what I described--especially since my best friend (also on the paper) said he treated me differently. And then maybe the love poem spooked him and made him worry there could be accusations of impropriety .

T said then when I called him after sending him the letter first semester of freshman year , he may have really freaked out, worrying I'd accuse him of something or his wife would think something had gone on. So that's why he said to never call him again. How some people just don't know how to handle that sort of situation, and ex-teacher may have been one of them. Like, he no longer cared what happened to me, had to protect himself and his career. So wasn't so much me, it was him.

Talk shifted to MC. I mentioned how H and I had talked later Friday night, and H had said he was thinking during session, "Couldn't MC just show some humanity?" As in, couldn't he just take off his therapist hat and treat me like a human, show compassion? T thought it was interesting that H was thinking the same throughout the session. I said I appreciated H thinking that. I also said how H said it almost seemed like a romantic breakup. T asked how it made me feel that he said that. I said I didn't know...how in a way, it did feel like that. He asked if it was that it bothered me that it felt that way or if it was because H was talking about it. I said I wasn't sure--definitely felt awkward with H talking about it.

I said how I hated that MC tried to deny so many things. I said to him that I wondered if MC would tell him the same stuff he’d tell me. Like I mentioned to him today how I’d had an hour-long phone call with MC while I was in a crisis 2 years ago. T said if he was talking to MC, he wondered if MC would tell him it was an hour, or if he’d be like, “Oh, it was about 5 minutes I think." I thought it was interesting that T thought MC might not be honest with him...

I said I guessed the common thread in teacher and MC is they got freaked out when I brought up love (though I'd shared that with MC before...). T asked if I often had trouble controlling feelings for other people. I asked if he meant in general, and he meant male authority figures, particularly MC. I said I didn't know--that it wasn't a general thing. But with MC, there were times in the past where I thought we should reduce sessions and start pulling back, being less dependent on him. T asked when that was, say, a year ago? I said yes, or even more. He asked what stopped me. I said I didn't know--it was like MC had this ability to just kind of suck me back in...

He asked if I was able to pull back--what would my ideal relationship with MC, as a therapist, look like? I had some trouble answering that. I said part was not feeling so dependent. That I'd be able to look at him as a kind person who had helped me, but not feel like I needed him, to be less attached. T said he thought it was OK for some attachment to be there.

He said he thinks of the relationships he has with some longer-term clients. And he hasn't asked them, but he imagines they would feel there is trust and caring there, how the client probably liked talking with him and would miss it if they stopped seeing each other, and that maybe the client would say they wished they could have been friends with T if they'd met him in different setting, but understand that in the current relationship, that could never work. Because of the power imbalance, how he knows stuff about a client that their closest friends likely don't know, but they don't know much about him.

I said that's part of what made things confusing with MC. Because he did share so much. And also that we'd end up just chatting about stuff in session for a long time, like sports. How at one point, H said he felt like he should invite MC over to watch a playoff game. T said the fact that he had that thought suggested an issue in the therapeutic relationship. That MC isn't keeping the lines/boundaries of the relationship clear enough. I said that it did feel that way, not just in the sense of individual (with me) vs. marriage counseling, but with the marriage counseling itself.

It was time to schedule. I asked if there was any chance we could meet again later this week, since I'm still struggling with all this. He said either I could contact him later in the week, or we could schedule and if I feel better tomorrow, could cancel. So we scheduled for Thursday.

As I was walking to his desk to pay, I said I'm not usually this needy, that I'm not going to be asking for this all the time, extra sessions, e-mail, etc. That I'm just going through a rough time right now. He said he wasn't sure how I'd take this (my thought: uh-oh!), but that this is his job. As long as I pay him and he has availability, it's completely fine. He's not going to offer me time he doesn't have available. That it's a business relationship. And he does have to pay for groceries and stuff. I said actually, it helped to hear that.

We shook hands as he said, "Take care." I said, "You too." Then he added, "I'm sorry you're struggling so much." I said, "Thank you" and headed out.

Tonight was so hard, so intense...

Honestly, I only about 40% of it, but I do want to get it down.

We started with my typical "I feel awkward - heh - how do we start" couple of minutes, until I eventually told him I'd planned to come in and "open a box" (visual mental exercise we do to talk about the stuff i've 'boxed up' in my head over the years). However, I was having a lot of resistance. We talked enough for me to tell him the box was labeled "Mom" and was very large.

He talked me through getting the box down, which probably took a good 10-15 minutes in and of itself, because I was just feeling so much "let's do this" then "stop" then "ok we can try" then "nope can't do it." The first 'try' I couldn't tell him how heavy the box was because I wouldn't let myself feel it. So, he had me put it back and walked me through it much more slowly. I stumbled on every single response when he'd ask me things, because I just had this nagging part telling me that he was laughing at me, that this was a joke and ridiculous to him. That I was acting like an idiot and was stupid and should be so embarrassed (which I was) (more on that later.)

We had a bit of frustration because I kept telling him I would "try." "I'll try to lift the box, I'll try to take it down, I'll try to open it." He didn't seem to understand what I meant by "I'm not sure if I CAN open it." I got frustrated at that -- I don't understand why he doesn't understand that there's every possibility I'm going to look in the box and see nothing--not even the box, because my own mind won't LET me.

We got to "cutting the tape on the box," and then when he asked if I wanted to open the flaps, I had to stop again. Eventually, we opened it, I looked inside, and, frustrated, I told him there was nothing.

He asked what I saw - did I see the bottom of the box?

I said no - that I just saw dark

He said "it's too dark to see inside?"

I said no - it's just an empty void

He asked if I could draw it, and I said fine....and as I was drawing, it really all got a lot clearer, and eventually I realized I was drawing and seeing a like "thin but opaque" fabric on top of whatever's in the box - the fabric was actually the color of a night sky.

I don't even know how any of this works -- and that's as far as we got with the box. I wound up saying I couldn't do this if I didn't explain to him first "that I'm not the only one doing this; I'm not the only one in my head." I was really emotional during this - I told him I was trying to figure out what was safe to tell him/say to him about parts stuff. I kept unintentionally slipping and saying "parts-type speak" that I seriously have NEVER used in my life, and when it happened, I shut down immediately.

I think I eventually managed to convey that my "highest adult self" as Group T likes to call it of course wants to do this work, but that there's another part that just wants to cling to him, and another telling me that he's laughing at me and thinks this is stupid that I'm stupid. I honestly didn't get to convey as much as I wish I could've, but I do know this:

He brought up the 'daddy' stuff again. Said that if that's part of our dynamic (which it is), then that means it's his job to offer guidance.

He was really insistent that I make eye contact/look at him during the last 10-15 min of the session as he was talking to me - he said "I am real." and he kept saying that he was worried I wouldn't remember what he was saying. and he referenced some things I said and said "I don't know if you even remember saying these things," which I didn't, but do now, but I was like such a mess at that time I couldn't seem to remember much of anything.

He told me that I'm too hard on myself, and I asked him what that even meant. He said that I say insulting, harsh things about myself (referenced my saying - as indicated above - how I was being stupid by doing this, etc.). He said he didn't like when I did that/didn't want me to do that (I can't remember which) and asked me to promise him that I'd work on stopping that. I told him I would and already was.

He asked me to look at him again -- when I said the bit about the part that just wanted to cling to him -- his voice got really gentle when I said that and he asked me to look at him and asked what I saw in him when I said that (like, did I see disgust, humor, rejection) -- I said I saw that he was ok with it. I'm getting emotional writing about this part now though, because I still so badly want to cling to him, especially right now, because tonight was so intense.

He said to look at him again and said he wanted me to walk away tonight knowing that I'd done really good work with my therapist, that we'd made progress, and that I would come back and we'd do this next time and the next time and the next time (combatting the 'every session is the last session' fear of mine, which he wants me to work on, but how CAN I... nobody can promise a 'next session.' - he just said that it's far more likely than not that nothing will take him away before the next session).

At one point, he told me - like didn't even ask just told me - 'drop your arm and look at me' - all assertive like, which I'm trying to decide how I feel about - and that was when he asked what did I see in him when I expressed my fear that he didn't believe any of the things I'd been talking about -- I told him I didn't know -- and I don't -- I don't know how to tell if someone believes me or not by looking at them. I don't trust myself to know that.

Some talk somewhere in there about him wanting me to keep asking him his beliefs and feelings about me to keep checking with him about it - not just sitting with my fear of it/guessing.

and now m brain is fritzing out and it's all going back to mush and mist and nothingness and I just want C and am sitting here crying like my daughter did tonight for me -- worn out and just needing my comfort and to cling to me which she never does but tonight she did because she hit me and I had to hold a boundary getting her to say 'i'm sorry' instead of just getting to go run off and I don't even know if I handled it right because all I could think was how here I was holding her against me, rocking her and telling her I loved her and everything was ok and I was here and rubbing her back and all I wanted was someone (C) to do that for me tonight

and no I just remembered he also said that thing again about needing to trust him/having no choice but to trust him on these things and also something about how we're getting into scary, intense things together, and all of the comfort and reassurance can't just come from me, that I need it to come from him. Which I basically heard as "this isn't something you can do alone," which I wish I'd asked him is what he meant, because I feel like I need to hear that - that I'm not supposed to/can't do this alone and that he knows that... idk

I'm a mess. tired. crying. mess. and I want C so badly I feel like I'm going to combust

Letter T wrote to my new pdoc

Junk DNA - what a wonderful testament to your progress, your T's dedication and care for you, and the relationship you have built together.

Yes ..... it made me feel good

oh dna, that letter is awesome <3

I had a really good session today. We just kind of talked about normal things and it was helpful. I used to think that I was creating a new me, but in reality, I realize that I have been unearthing the me that has been with me all along.

JD- I love the letter.

Had an intense session with C. Intense for me, at least. I came in so fragmented, I couldn't put two words together - I don't remember what I was saying, but I know that I kept starting and stopping and then starting something else...and all the while thinking in my head "omg stop TMC he's going to think you're doing this on purpose to make yourself look more dissociated." Whatever.

C and Group T talked and it was nothing spectacular - consensus between both is that I'm struggling to open up/go deeper (I never thought I would hear that from a therapist - not ever - do you know how many have told me "you are so self aware...there's nothing more I can give you!)...I'm an open book!...and here are therapists saying I'm struggling to go deeper/share...it's so weird.

C said DID. So the DID term is back in play, and I was like "I don't have DID" then he was confused and then I was like "no diagnoses...diagnoses don't matter...except I guess if we just get that term out in the open, then it'll be a little freeing" whatever...it was really really confusing, but the point is: parts. I'm supposed to be getting used to saying that word. Parts.

He wants to interact directly with them. I managed to bleh out that "I don't think we can continue doing the unboxing work without a working relationship between the parts." And he says the only way he can help with that is if I let him interact with them directly. I'm just setting this aside for now and trying not to think about it -- I meant to ask, but didn't, "can't it all just go through me?" I'm thinking the answer should be that we can at least start with that?... me just learning to say the words in my head? IDK. I'm sorry this is probably making no sense. Also, this all means having to 'look.'

I wound up telling him so much more than I thought I would (it wasn't something I came in planning to talk about) about what happened when I was dx-ed 10 years ago. About how I'd "asked" (inside) about ages, etc. and just wrote down whatever came up and that was that - that's how everything got so defined. I told him about how I'd lived in a world in my head growing up, with people in my head, and how it's all a fog now. About how I'd had to try to find those things I'd gotten from the world and the people in my head out in the real world -- that I was looking for safety, protection -- that it had led me down paths I'm not proud of -- that real people are so much more complicated than people in your head.

I still fee so...fragmented. I don't have another word for it. But I did manage to ask him at the end if I could still contact him between now and Monday and if he'd still be there. He made me ask those questions directly and then say nothing -- he answered immediately -- but I'd been asking the questions in an indirect ramble. I looked at him while asking "can I still contact you between now and Monday" -- yes. "will you still be here?" -- yes. So that was good.

I remember him smiling at one point when I was telling him something, and I said "you look amused," and he said "I was feeling caring." I remember him saying that not only was he ok with interacting directly with parts, but that he wanted it. He said "in fact, I want it so much, I have to keep myself in check to make sure we are only pushing ahead because you want to, not me." That helped.

Somehow, I walked away feeling like I got the "daddy care" + the adult reassurance. I did keep my shoes on this whole time for once (I always kick off my shoes and pull my feet up on his couch like a kid for every session; today, I kept my boots on).

T today (second session of week). Sat down, I was wearing distressed jeans with a couple holes in them. T said, "Are things so bad that you have holes in your jeans?" I said, "I'm just being stylish!" Then said how when I wear this, D will say "Mommy has holes in her pants!"

He asked what I wanted to talk about. I said, "Well, H and I talked to MC Tuesday night on the phone." T: "How did that come about?" I talked about how I'd been struggling since Monday's session. T said, "With me?" I said yes, how I felt it had dredged up some stuff from the past, like with the teacher. T asked if I felt the parallel with him and MC, and I said yes. But it was more about recalling more details of the teacher stuff that I talked about with T Monday. T said it must be really difficult--tragic--to go through something like that once and feel like it's happening again. I said yes, that I knew this was different, and that I was reacting to it, approaching it differently. But it still echoed that. And how I couldn't eat Monday night.

Then Tuesday, I decided to start writing an e-mail to MC. And I just totally broke down sobbing while writing it. Realized that maybe writing e-mail wouldn't really get me anything. So I texted him requesting call, not expecting him to say OK. Then he responded saying he could talk to me and H at 8:30 that night. T asked if we'd done that before, call with all three of us. I said no (had just been me and MC in past), but I figured that was MC's boundary, so I'd just agree to it. Told H, talked to him before call about purpose for it, what I might want him to say. I said how MC called at 8 p.m., when we were about to give D her bath. How I'd told him he said 8:30, and he apologized, saying he could call back then. I said to T, "Of course, the one time he's early, or on time!" T laughed--he used to work with MC and knows he has a tendency to run late.

I said how H was playing video game the whole call. T gave rather puzzled look to that. I said that at first it bothered me, especially since we thought call was only going to be 15 minutes--ended up being over an hour. But also that I've now realized that H probably knew he wasn't going to be active participant, maybe there to chaperone.

I mentioned how some people on here had said they wouldn't have put up with this if they were my H. T clarified I meant PC forums. I said yes, how that made me think and mentioned what someone had said. He said, "Wow, you get some really direct advice on there, don't you?" I said yes, how sometimes it can be that way, kinda critical, then sometimes give me different perspectives, other times lots of support. How MC had been very anti-PC. How once he'd said if he had one wish, it would be that I wouldn't go on PC. That he'd then said, actually, one wish, he wanted [his favorite baseball team] to win World Series, but if had two wishes, he'd wish for me to stop using PC. T said, "Did he use his third wish to ask for more wishes?" I said, "Or maybe it's like that thing, where the guy wishes for the sausage, then wishes it was on wife's nose, then has to use last wish to get it off her nose." T: "Isn't that from Sesame Street? Is that a Sesame Street reference?" Me: "I think it was on there--but I thought it was based off an old folk tale? I'll have to look that up." (It's based on an old folk tale.)

Later in session, I mentioned not being attracted to someone, and T said, "Is it because they had a sausage on their nose?" I think he referenced it a third time, too.

Back to H--I said I'd talked to H some last night about it, how I appreciated him bearing with me through this stuff with MC, that I realized it might be difficult and confusing for him. T asked what H said to that. I said he mostly was concerned with how it all was affecting me, how much it was upsetting me, which I really appreciated.

I said back to MC phone call, that it probably took first 20 minutes to really get through to him what I was looking for, why Friday's session had upset me. I said he eventually began to get it, that in the overall call, he seemed to be conciliatory. Then I said, "Is that the right word? It's not a word I use very often." T: "I think so. I guess we have the same dictionaries in our heads, so either we're both right or we're both wrong." Me: "Guess I'll add that to list of things to look up when I get home!" (I used it correctly.)

I said how MC had seemed to be really pushing the fact that he believed it was romantic love I'd been expressing rather than platonic. Even when I'd clarified in e-mail and previous phone call. He still kept thinking romantic (meanwhile, H is on call...). I told T how I wasn't sure why this time he thought it was romantic love as opposed to transference. T said he wasn't sure what it would mean if it was one vs. the other. I tried to explain what I thought the difference was, and he said maybe he wasn't smart enough to grasp it, or because he hadn't been trained psychodynamically. I said I thought the main difference was: transference would be stuff from my past, so not really about MC, while romantic love would be about MC. And how the former wouldn't seem a threat to my marriage while the latter would be. T seemed to kinda get that.

He talked about how I felt for MC, the intense emotions. And asked if I'd ever felt that for H. I said yes, at one point. He asked what happened. I said, "Well, we moved in together and got married..." He asked if I knew how to transition from the excitement of early love to what happens later. I said I didn't know...how my longest relationship before H had been a year and a half (I'll be married to H 10 years in April). He said he wondered if I'm hooked on the feeling at the start of a relationship. He made a reference to Tiger Woods, who is known for being unfaithful to his wife, who seemed to have everything any husband could want. He said how some people need that excitement, and they may need to find other ways to get it. How some couples will do new and exciting things together to keep that feeling up. I mentioned how MC had H and I go a couple years ago to this ropes course as a bonding experience and how that had been kind of a nightmare, how I'd had an awful sobbing panic attack while standing on a suspended log (like 30 feet from ground). T asked if I could laugh about it now, and I said my hands were sweating thinking about it. He said it was still a shared novel experience with H, and I said I guessed so. I think he implied we needed more stuff like that...

He mentioned how a married couple he'd counseled used to do this thing where the wife would go to a bar and start hitting on a guy, then the husband would show up and sort of win her back. How it seemed to work for them, but T didn't think that was a healthy thing because it could have hurt someone--the other guy the wife was hitting on. Or potentially led to violence. That with his moral compass, he tends to think things are OK as long as they don't potentially hurt another person. I think that's the first time he gave any details about a past client. He was trying to say what the third party, the other guy in that would be called and was like, "target? No that's not right. Maybe another thing for you to look up!" I said, "That might be a bit more difficult to look up! And this is getting to be a long list."

But he said maybe I was looking for some sort of other spark, like I wanted a reaction from H, including about the MC stuff. I said how I'd had a sort of one-sided emotional affair with a guy in grad school, but H hadn't seemed bothered by that. He was much more bothered by the one-night stand a few years ago. T said that was interesting, how many people would be much more bothered by an emotional affair. I said I was like that, how it would bother me way more than if H just hooked up with someone. We discussed that more. How maybe part of me wanted H to be jealous? Or express more emotion about the relationship? I said I wasn't sure and mentioned some past more intense relationships I'd had, how they were also less healthy. But still I craved that at times. He was trying to clarify what I was looking for because "intensity" could mean many things. I said, maybe intense emotional connection? Like almost, as cheesy as it sounds, a soulmate sort of thing? Even though I know that's not realistic. I said I'd think on it more.

During that, I ended up talking a bit about past relationships and may have given T a bit TMI about my sex life when I'd been dating and when I first got together with H. Oh, and I guess earlier in the session, I'd mentioned something about sleeping on the couch instead of in bed with H, and we'd discussed that. I mistakenly thought I'd told T that before, but apparently not, because he seemed really surprised. Came up in context of insomnia (the kind where you wake up in middle of night and can't go back to sleep).

Was near end of session, and I said I wanted to wrap up MC phone call. Said near end, he'd mentioned how he'd been hurt by some things I'd said and had at times been frustrated with me. T said it was good that he'd said that. I was like, "Really? I thought T's were supposed to deal with that stuff on their own?" T said he disagreed with that, and that he'd bring it up if similar emotions came up for him. That he tends to be a "straight shooter" with clients. He's about 5'7" and gave example of, "If a client said, 'I think short men are worthless,' then I'd ask them why they said that to me, knowing I'm a short man." I said how he's still taller than MC (who is maybe 5'5"?). T said, "True. This is a bad joke, but that's a pretty low bar to cross!" We both laughed at that.

Was time to schedule. I asked if he had anything Tuesday, he said that was fairly full. That he could give me Wed. I said, "Well, that's my birthday, so not sure..." He offered Thursday, but I'm going to concert Wed. night so wasn't sure. Then he said, "OK, I have a guy with a regular appointment on Tuesdays. But he has a really flexible schedule, so I should be able to give you that time and have him come a different day." I said, "Are you sure? I feel weird about doing that." T said, "You're not doing that, I am." I said, "OK, if you're sure that's OK..." He said to assume the slot was mine, and he'd let me know by Sat. morning. I made sure I could get some other appointment if that didn't work, and he said yes.

Walked to his desk to pay. I commented on how I was going to a concert next Wed., but that I wasn't going to e-mail anyone afterward! (The love e-mail to MC resulted from a concert for a band who had songs I associated with him.) T said, "That's probably a good policy. And you're funny!" Just before we were going to shake hands, he sneezed into the elbow of his right arm. I said, "Bless you!" He asked, "Still want to shake hands?" I said, "Yeah, OK." Shook hands, he said "Take care," I said, "You too." Then asked if he could verify Tuesday either way. He said yes, and if I didn't hear from him, to go ahead an e-mail to check.

I needed to talk to him about our hugs because there was a bit of non-hugging weirdness at the end of the session before. I said we hadn't discussed them for ages in spite of them becoming more frequent and feeling different. I asked him what he thought and he said that he never feels uncomfortable and he feels like they are a form of communication between us. He said he is aware that because they come at the end of the session we don't get a chance to process them so there's a degree of risk to that if something came up because of them. I said I would just bring it up next session so it's not really a risk.
He asked how they felt for me. I said I agreed with what he had said. I said they sometimes provide me with reassurance, sometimes allow me to express my appreciation and how much I value the relationship. I said there's a lot of love in there. I didn't tell him but I'll try to be brave and tell him that next week. Those feelings seem to have disappeared again for now.
I was really angry about a certain situation and he let me vent and was helpful in my exploration of what I want to do about the situation.
Then I said something about him that made him feel a little bit embarrassed (just about stuff relating to his professional position locally) and he had an embarrassed smile and just looked really sheepish and adorable. When I look back on that moment I just want to hold him. It's almost like I felt maternal towards him. I am wondering if it relates to the power dynamic or what but I will tell him that next week. He asked what was happening and i said I was just enjoying his little smirk. He laughed.
Then he told me about some cpd he did and something he said made him think of me and that he thought I'd find interesting. He said he would find the reference for me to look it up. That felt nice. He apologised for taking up the last few minutes telling me that, but I didn't mind. We had a lovely hug and I left.

Sounds like an awesome session!

And I love this example. Its like, yeah, he will go to his own t with his Napoleon complex, but he WILL confront a client who is making short jokes, cuz like, what is up with the client for saying that?

After 7 years I'm finally talking about my CSA. T said "i love you talking about this " but all I wanted to hear was "I love you" cuz dammit I just want t to love me. Oh well good enough for now I guess LOL

I agree--great session, LT!

Then print off this post and read it in 30 years. I guarantee you will love it then! im totally jealous! Well in a weird way.

I'm curious if MC said why he didn't like you to come on here. I've found it very helpful if a little addicting. I've mentioned it to my therapist and he's been pretty blank slate about it. Not that I was asking his for his permission or approval, but just mentioning that I've found it useful to not feel so alone sometimes.

The first time he brought it up, I think it was because I'd read about other therapists taking away things like e-mail, etc. So I worried he'd do that. So he didn't want me to doubt him because of stuff other therapists did. Another time was after I'd figured out his wife was sick. I'd made a post talking about how I'd wanted to ask him more about it, and many posters responded with things like, "Leave the poor man alone!" suggesting I was awful for wondering. I mentioned that to him, and he said he didn't feel that way, that I shouldn't listen to what other people believed he thought, I should ask him about it. Which in a way made sense. But then I'd tell him how much support and understanding I got on here, but he still seemed very against the site.

Current T doesn't know much about it, so seems more curious than anything. Ex-T didn't seem to care that I was on here.

In retrospect, with MC, I wonder if he worried people would question the way he practiced or think he was being unethical...

I think it more likely he was one of those who believed in keeping therapy there. Like these guys:
Triangulate: Did your therapist say something you don’t agree with, don’t understand, or don’t want to accept? Instead of asking about it, just run it past all your friends and family to get their opinion, starting with “My therapist said _____, what do you think that means?” Then bring the results of your survey to the next session and spend the hour talking about what everyone else thinks. Why have that awkward, direct talk when you can divert the objections to your friends and family? (more here)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...y-clients-make
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...i-introduction

The Vessel | Jung At Heart

I greatly dislike the Howes guy - but I think it is a theory some of them put forth

(((junkDNA))) I'm glad you are able to start talking.