In Session Today : Part III

Not revolted - simply completely confused. I don't get the allure of blinky pictures and I don't understand what they mean - but apparently I am in the minority.

The snow-delayed, emoticon-free part 2 (of 2) of my T session from yesterday:

We were talking about stuff with MC and ex-T, how there was the paternal and maternal transference. I said how at one point, MC had said that he told ex-T that they should tell their respective spouses that they had a child together named LT. And how that struck me as an odd thing to say, even though I did sometimes think of them as "Mom and Dad" at times. He said he was wondering about something: Do I feel like a child? I said I didn’t think so? He said he especially wondered because it’s not like MC is that much older than me. I said yeah, just 12 years. And how that was part of why I was confused at first, not knowing if it was paternal or erotic transference, since I’d dated someone the same age difference from me.

T asked more about if I felt like there was some sort of romantic or erotic part to the stuff with MC. At first I said mostly more of a wanting the closeness thing. But then added that, well, it wasn’t just that at times. He asked if I meant dreams, and I said, “Yeah, uh…” and he said, “Fantasies?” I said, “Uh, yeah, at times…I know this is probably weird because you know him!”
He said that maybe MC isn’t used to people being attracted to him (he's not particularly attractive by conventional standards), so he (MC) had assumed it was more paternal. He said, “Maybe he isn’t used to being thought of as a sex symbol.” I laughed and said, “Well, I don’t exactly think of him as a sex symbol either…"

He said something about the transference being very far-reaching. I said yes, that it was confusing because of all the different elements. He also mentioned how from what he’s been aware of and heard, it’s a much stronger attachment than most people would experience to their therapist. That maybe some therapists would never have a client that attached to them (or something like that)

I said it was interesting, because ex-T had said something similar but it bothered me when she said it. And that he (T) has said other similar things to what she’s said, but they also didn’t bother me. He said maybe because she’s a woman? I said maybe that, or I just wasn’t in a place to hear them when she said them. or both. T said also maybe because he’s the second person to say them...

I mentioned something else that had come up with ex-T. I was talking to her about how I have a million thoughts going through mine at any time. And I'd asked ex-T, “Doesn’t everyone else’s mind work like that?” And she was just like, “Uh, no.” T said in his job, he gets to see how lots of people's brains work. And how often people with anxiety say they wish they could be like people whose brains were more peaceful. I said I wished that too.

Then he said he couldn’t remember if I was a Seinfeld fan, I confirmed that I was. He mentioned Elaine’s boyfriend, Puddy. I said, “The episode when they’re on the plane?” He said, “Yeah, where she asks him if he’s just going to stare at the back of the seat the whole flight, and he replies, 'Yep.' And she said, ‘OK, we’re breaking up.'” I said, “Yeah, and then they got together and broke up a couple more times on the flight." We were both laughing at that.

Along similar lines (this made sense in the context), he was talking about how therapists, particularly psychologists with a PhD (like him), can be a weird group of people. How to get a PhD, you have to do lots of studying and reading, so lots of them are more bookwormish and less skilled socially. So they may not have very good social skills, yet are going into a profession where social skills can be very helpful.

I said I got the sense that he (T) has pretty good social skills, though of course I couldn’t say, because it’s not like I’ve seen him out at a party or something. Then I said that maybe i assumed that because he’s an athlete. T said people do tend to erroneously make that assumption. I said, “Yeah, plus, I mean, it’s not like you’re the quarterback of a pro football team or something.” He said, “Yeah, there aren’t too many quarterbacks who are 5’7”.” I said, “There are some shorter quarterbacks!” (digging myself further into a hole…) We then spent a few minutes talking about the football playoff games from the weekend (he knows I’m a football fan).

I looked at the clock and said I knew we had to stop in a minute. And how I was nervous about seeing MC Friday. He said he was going to give me similar advice to what he tells people who are confronting their abusers (not sure if there was any significance to him using that example...) Basically going in without expecting the other person to respond as I’d hoped. To think about how I’m presenting myself and what I’m saying, not about what response I’m going to get, because i can't control that. I said I suspected if someone was confronting an abuser, they likely wouldn't get the response they wanted. He said maybe 1% of the time. (I didn't ask why he used that particular example...)

I said how one of the biggest things for me is that I didn't want what had happened recently with MC to overshadow anything good that had happened with him. That I was afraid I'd just think of him as "another authority figure who hurt me" rather than someone who had helped me at least some of the time. And I didn't want that.

And then T said something that might be obvious to many people, but felt particularly profound to me: “LT, something you’re going to come to realize is that someone can be both very caring and kind, and then also be cruel and hurtful. Yet it’s the same person. And sometimes people who seem bad can also be caring at times."

I said, so I guessed it wasn’t black and white, good or bad, which is more how I tend to think of it. Then I said (we were definitely out of time by then) how maybe I need to apply that to myself, too…that I tend to think, “I was unfaithful, so now I’m a bad person” or “I got a DWI (15 years ago), so now I’m a bad person.” He agreed that was a good connection and something to work on. I said I imagined that wouldn’t be a quick thing to resolve...

I knew it was time to schedule, and I said, "So now is when you tell me you're taking the next month off, right?" T laughed and said, "No. Next Tuesday at 1:30?" I said OK, and we went over to his desk to pay. Did that, then he held out his hand and said "See you next week" as we shook hands. Then "Good luck out there." I thanked him, said "You too," and headed out. When I got to the elevator, I realized I was shaking...

If Im truly honest, I can see you (LT) developing strong transference for your T.

I dont say that to freak you out, cause anxiety or to be rude. I personally feel I see it coming from a mile away. And if it was me, I'd want someone to tell me. I have been following your story and hope you dont mind my observation. I could be wrong though. And I dont see strong transference as a bad thing. Or something to feel bad over at all. Feelings are just that.... feelings.

I see similarities between us of there being an attachment issue that needs to be processed but M.C seemed to not be able to process it fully with you. At least not so far. It needs to be with someone who has the skills to work through it. And I think the lack of strong boundaries, disqualified M.C and has just made it worse for you. I think there is an excellent chance you will work through it with your T.

Oh, I agree...I think that's part of why I was shaking when I left yesterday. Because I felt that connection and attachment. It's hard for me to say right now if it's definitely transference--or what kind it would be. I mean, he's only 7 years older than me and not unattractive. At first, he seemed pretty arrogant--as one poster eloquently put it, following a particular e-mail to me (the one where he insisted on being called "Dr. T"), he seemed like an arrogant douchebag. And that's not the sort of person I'm generally drawn to (either romantically or in an authority figure/mentor), so I figured I was all good. And that I also got a sense he was more detached, less caring. And at first it seemed he was kind of siding with MC...

But then, over the past couple months, he's seemed much more down-to-earth and also caring--particularly in his lengthy (paid) response to an e-mail I sent him a couple weeks ago. And seems to be really listening to me and validating me regarding the MC stuff, rather than immediately trying to defend his colleague/friend (they used to work together). It seems weird for me to say that's a bad development--like "Oh no, this person turned out not to be a detached jerk!" But it just scares me in terms of attachment and transference.

Of course I worry about how he'd react if/when I get attached/have transference, after what happened with MC (particularly recently). I worried he'd be afraid to work with me after I was really open about stuff with MC during I think our third session. His response at the time was that he couldn't ethically abandon me--which didn't help! Because that felt like he was saying, "Well, I'm stuck with you now..." But since then, we've broached the topic of--what if I become attached to him? And he's said that he wouldn't just drop me, that we'd work through it. That he's experienced it before (no surprise, as he focuses on teens, like MC). I still worry, of course... Then again, maybe he realizes I'm already somewhat attached...

I think you're right regarding MC. I kept thinking that, if only I had just been in individual therapy with him, we could have worked through it. Especially because he was so insistent on the benefits of working through transference. But now, I don't know. I'm realizing the damage that his inconsistent and unclear boundaries have caused. And even though he's supposedly trained psychodynamically, maybe he doesn't really have the correct skill set to handle it--or at least to handle it with me...

I realize now how important boundaries are. I feel safer with current T because his seem fairly clear and strong. With MC, I got to a point where I was somewhat dependent on him, like with the e-mailing and texting. The reassurance (even though he kept saying he needed to stop reassuring me...he'd keep doing it). I think he was just reinforcing my insecure attachment style--sometimes being there, other times not. Supporting me individually at times, then other times saying no, he had to maintain the boundaries of marriage counseling. Promising he'd never abandon or reject me, then recently saying I had to reduce contact (while claiming that wasn't pushing me away).

I'm trying really hard not to get to that sort of dependency on T, and I think the fact that he charges for e-mails and calls over a certain length and only uses text for scheduling will really help with that. (I suppose if I had unlimited funds, it might not help, but I don't!) He can generally fit me in for an extra session and has a few times, but I'm trying not to overuse that either. Like last week, the night of our session, I got really emotional about stuff with MC (I'd ended up talking about other stuff during session). I was tempted to text T and ask if we could schedule a session in the next few days. But then I was like, "No, I can handle this..." Yeah, I did end up e-mailing MC the next morning, but I think that ultimately turned out to be a good thing. I didn't contact T till I saw him yesterday.

OK, I'm rambling now. I really hope you're right, that I'll be able to work through whatever transference/attachment I develop with T. Just scared he won't be able to handle it...though I don't see it developing to nearly the level of MC for various reasons... I guess I need to bring this up with T next session, scary though it is... Right?

I don't think developing transference with him is such a bad thing. It almost seems inevitable seeing as how your relationship with MC ended. I think fact that this T has strict boundaries and maintains them will make a big difference.

If I were you, I would bring up every little thing to do with any transference or attachment you have concerning him. I knew when you said you were shaking it was because of that. That way it doesnt snowball. Like never telling your partner something pisses you off and then one day you just let them have it!

My T suggested I meet another client who had feelings for him and worked through it. I was like hell no. One, it would just make my feelings of jealously and defectiveness worse and two, I dont need a visual reminder that I am just one among many.

If I had known more about the way psychodynamic therapy works, I would have prepared myself much better and not be blind sided. I didnt see the train coming at alll...

You are in the early stages of being able to make this way more manageable. I would show him your responses to me.

Thanks, you're probably right. I was really open with him about the stuff with MC--I mean, it's part of the reason I decided to see a new T, because I didn't think ex-T was helping with it--so I feel like he can't be surprised if transference would develop. If he didn't think he could handle that, he should have told me early on. Honestly, I picked a male T partly for that reason, because it could give me a chance to work through the transference more directly if it developed (and maybe then I'd realize MC wasn't so special after all...)--also because I had some negative maternal transference for my ex-T, who was a woman around my mother's age. I really think his stronger boundaries will make a big difference, as you said. Hopefully he can be more consistent with them than MC (though it won't take much!)

You make some good points--I really think part of why it got so intense with MC is that I let it go on so long without saying anything about it, even to my ex-T. It went through a phase where I felt happy and all warm and fuzzy after every session...to then crying on the way home after every session--probably a couple months of that phase before I even said anything to ex-T. I think holding it in for so long let it grow to the point that it was kind of out of control, so intense. I told myself with this T, that I'd be open with him if something started developing, because now I know some of the signs. Yet now I'm feeling the signs and am scared to say anything... so I think I at least need to revisit the topic with him (since I've brought up the fears before). I did tell him that he showed up in my dream a few weeks ago (and was scared to do that, but it was fine).

It's funny, the thing about not letting things snowball actually came up in there a few weeks ago. Mostly in relation to MC, how I wondered if he'd actually been bothered for a long time about my outside contact, then suddenly that one week was the last straw. T said that he tries to be very upfront with people--not just clients, in real-life relationships, too (including his marriage)--if something is starting to bother him, rather than waiting until it's at a breaking point. And he said he would do that with me, too. We discussed how common that can be in marriages (he does marriage counseling, too)--I said it had definitely happened with both H and me.

And wow, I can't imagine the idea of meeting with another client who had worked through transference with your T! That seems like a really odd suggestion...I'd feel the jealousy, too!

It was an off the cuff suggestion because he sees how much I struggle. I think he just wanted to give me hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel. But its a bit premature for that.... It could he a light or an oncoming train.

The jury is still out on that one.

Dr C told me she looks forward to seeing me each session, and that we do good work together. While sometimes I'm very stuck, she is glad when my name shows up on her schedule.

Thats sweet of her to say.

My T said he only looks forward to seeing me sometimes cos he never knows who hes gonna get.

Reminds me of that Marilyn Munroe quote.... if you cant handle me at my worst then you sure as hell dont deserve me at my best..

The weird thing was for a very, very long time, I was convinced she disliked me and dreaded seeing my name pop up on her schedule! She's hard to read and can be quite opaque.

You deserve a T who enjoys working with you, who likes you as a person, Coming Up Tails.

I think he's just honest with me because I can see through B.S.

To be fair, I can be a handful and I can evoke strong emotion from people at times.

Whats the rhyme... when she was good, she was very very good but when she was bad she was horrid.

I've had previous therapists get really frustrated and irritated with me. They tried to hide it, but I picked up on it and eventually one admitted it. Another wouldn't, but he'd be yawning, openly playing with his smartphone.

I kinda feel I've this force field which emits chemicals that get people to dislike me, not just therapists haha.

I'm glad your T is honest with you. Mine is, to a lesser extent. When I'm particularly frustrating, she pipes up about how she feels.

I play with my phone out of anxiety but a T doing it?

Id be like... unless you are planning to call me... put your dam phone down.

They shouldnt need a fidget toy

Had a phone session with my T yesterday due to snow. I had been walking downtown when he called. I told him I was trying to burn out some mental energy. He said that was smart.

He asked how I've been and I said not good. He asked how come. I talked about the obsessive thinking and the SH episode and the voices. He asked why I think this is happening . I said I believe it's from talking about my CSA trauma with him and that it feels like an entity is controlling my mind. I said I assume it is my dad because he knows I've been discussing what he did and he's punishing me.

We talked about my medications some . I've been going thru a lot of med changes lately . T mentioned my paranoia frequently throughout the phone call. So I guess I am being paranoid about some things.

We talked about my isolation. I told him I was thinking about going to go visit my old best friend. T said in Pennsylvania? I said yes. T said well [pause] that seems like a pretty sabotagey thing to do. I said I don't want to do drugs I just miss having a best friend. T said it would be too easy for me to get led down into the drug hole again. But that he understands I value the friendship I had with my friend. He moved away almost a year ago

I talked some about interactions at work that triggered my obsessing. T mentioned it sounds like paranoia. I told him that the worst part of this illness is not being about to decipher what thoughts are based in reality and what thoughts have been fabricated in my mind by my illness. T said yes that must be very hard

We ended the call at the hour mark

Oh we also reminisced about my time in the long term treatment program I met him in. I said I had forced him to be my therapist in September 2010. He said you didn't force me. I asked if he remembered the black widow spider. He said yes I do, I was thinking about that the other day for some reason.

Bloof. (That's a word now.) Fine, it was a good session. *insert childish pout face*

I may or may not still be in kid mode.

OK so we talked about my fears surrounding talking parts, etc. my history there, etc. his beliefs around it, etc. etc. We slipped a few times into things that made me teary, but we caught it and worked through it there.

I'd planned to go in and do another 'box opening,' but it was a big fat no even at his suggestions and prompting and gentle pushing. I finally managed to tell him that when I came to see him I often found myself in this sort of "silly kid" space and that...well...that part doesn't even have access to the boxes. To which he said "Ah...good point" and seemed to understand.

I'm still really really wary talking about this parts stuff. Wary on here, wary there with him...I told him it felt like a trick. Like he was telling me he was comfortable with it and parts work is central to his work and he has tons of experience with it, but that really, inside, secretly, he thinks it's absolute BS and is laughing about it. I said 'I just keep waiting for you to roll your eyes.'

I think it'll take more time than I'd like to figure out how to do this. I feel immense guilt talking about it at all. I told him that I was really scared that if I let myself talk about it, it'd get worse -- that's what happened last time -- and then I crammed it so far back and, already, it feels like it's getting 'worse.' And I said I'm afraid that that's something I'm doing subconsciously, but that it's my doing for appearances... and we're back to the same central terror: that people will think I am looking for attention.

He did tell me directly today that that is not how he experiences me. That he does experience some people that way, but that's not how he experiences me. That was really helpful.

Ended in the last 10 minutes talking about my daughter and showing him videos of her (I was trying to ease my way out of the session; not sure if he got that or not).

I left feeling good. Writing this has brought back some of the anxiety again, but I'm trying to remember how he said I didn't need to be upset that I didn't work on the things I planned to...that there's always next time. I told him...that's not how it works: every time is the last time. Bleh.

My dad has been communicating with me thru the radio in my bedroom . He is verh angey about what ive been telling t. I told him im sorey and i wont anymore. Today I went to ts office to hang out . I went for a walk and laid down. T was going to leave . I asked if I could stay. He said yeah but why do you want to stay ? I said I don't want to go home. T gave me a key and said will u turn everything off and lock up? I said yes. T told me not to take the new med anymore. He asked if I want a hug and I hugged his big puffy coat. T said hang in there. T left and I laid on the couch til my prn kicked in then locked up and am at home now.

My T does internal parts work. I thought it was hokey at first but it speaks to me now. I find it helpful

Long story short -- in college, I was diagnosed with DID. The psych who gave me that diagnosis eventually tried to prevent me from getting a job (security clearance) because of it. At that time, I renounced the diagnosis and ran far far away from ever talking parts.

S (exT) always eyerolled the diagnosis with me. But then, 2 years in, I brought parts up again, tentatively, because I was struggling to describe my internal experience any other way... and got a big fat eyeroll/sharp rebuke for ever thinking I could possibly have any sort of parts.

So now it's coming back up again. And it just feels... I don't even know. Shameful. (For me...I absolutely believe other people can have parts and even DID - but 'what happened to me wasn't bad enough - wasn't valid enough' for it to be real for me -- I'm just making it up for attention or at least people will think so idk) idk

I have DID, at least I agree with that diagnosis unless I think that I am looking for attention or somehow making it up. And, I am ashamed of it. I don't tell people IRL about it. Only 3 people know, other than Ts.

Sorry you are feeling all that.

I am hoping nothing I said made you feel ashamed, because that's not at all what I meant.

To be totally clear: I absolutely believe DID is a real thing. I do not think it is shameful or makes someone "sick." I just also happen to feel that people who have DID have usually been through really awful things and, therefore, deserve more support and care.

Thus, I'm afraid that when I talk about having been diagnosed, people will be like "*eyeroll* you do NOT have DID. That is such an exaggeration. You are just making things that happened to you out to be worse than they are because you want attention."

I hope that makes some sense. I don't want anyone thinking that I think DID or any disorder is something to be ashamed of. I do not at all think that.

I don't have DID, just friends who do and have read blogs by people with DID on tumblr and other blog sites. So I'm sharing what I've read and heard.

What you feel about others seeing you as "attention seeking", and that what happened to you "wasn't that bad", that you're possibly faking or exaggerating, and that others' issues are valid and yours isn't = absolutely common.

Found a blog whose URL I can't recall where the author experienced bullying in school and wrote a lot about their journey of "oh it wasn't horrific physical, emotional, sexual abuse...I can't possibly have DID" and they said they believe one doesn't need to have had extreme ultra horrific traumas to have DID. Of course it also could be that they don't have awareness of other traumas, however bullying is bad, and it doesn't have to be physical for a kid to develop complex trauma issues. For example, I recently read a story written by a teen with loving parents and a "good" family developing EDs, suicidality, SH, anxiety disorders and depression as a 10 yo through "just" emotional and verbal bullying

It took a while before I started believing my T around the concept of "how bad it is/was" and sometimes I still question it. Her stance is that it isn't what happened to you that matters; it is how you experienced it that matters. So, if you experienced something as traumatic, then it was traumatic because of how your body/mind responded to the event. It doesn't matter of that event was big ugly something or not. If your body and mind responded in certain ways, then it was traumatic for you.