[Calilady]

So, in the mean time of making my decision about whether to return to my T or not (I have a Friday appointment), I purchased his book, titled, Attachment To Your Therapist: A Conversation (by Jeffrey Smith). I'm on the third chapter and this passage stuck out to me. It makes it all the more confusing if I am to return to the lone therapist who has brought about feelings of attachment (I'm usually rather aloof)...

I'm afraid that in making an error, inspiring guilt and shame in me as I walked out of the door at the end of our last session, that I'll return to a less empathetic response. There is a fine line here. I'm afraid that she may not know what she's doing and her impulsive speech is inciting and activating things from my past, but will be met with a less than ideal response by her.

How do you feel about the article below? Any comments?

Let's go back to the complex moment when M's mixed feelings might intersect. Her therapist calls to say she is canceling a session because of a family emergency. I am guessing that M feels a sudden pang of disappointment, hurt, and anger. At the same time, she feels concern for her therapist. Is she OK? Has something terrible happened to her child? Will the child be OK? Will she be available to help me?

This is not YET a therapeutic moment. According to my guesses, two things take away the likelihood of transformation at that moment. First, there is no time or place for M to linger with her feelings, even for the few seconds or minutes that catharsis requires. This is not a time for new learning but a time for coping with a jumble of feelings. Second, M's conscience says she should be a "good person" and suppress her selfish feelings when someone she cares about is in need. Quite automatically, M shuts down her feelings and stuffs away her disappointment. The opportunity for transformation is not now.
At their next session, let's say M's conscience has relented enough for her to feel her self-centered feelings. She is feeling hurt and anger at the same time that she is feeling empathy for her therapist. Suddenly she realizes that this bitter-sweet mix of feelings is not new. The many times her parents had to attend to her sick sibling while she was neglected (this is my imagination, not M's report) come to consciousness. Now the intensity of the hurt and anger are there for a reason. It is not that she is selfish and immature in wanting her therapist all to herself. Rather, the therapy has brought to the surface some important unfinished business from her past, the inevitable result of her sibling's illness.

Let's focus on the anger. M states that she feels anger towards her therapist at first. But it really doesn't fit, because the therapist did no wrong. This might be what we call "displaced" feeling. It is the right feeling directed towards the wrong person. At least the feeling is active, but without the original context, it can't heal. Then with the realization that she has felt this before, M is able to connect the feeling within the right circumstances. The therapist now provides a safe context in which to feel the anger of a child who has legit needs independent of the sibling's illness. In this new context, the feeling can heal in the same way traumatic memories do. The neural network of anger at parents gets "wired together" with the one representing that it is safe and OK and understandable to feel such things, even when a beloved sibling is sick.

The old association of anger with being "bad" is rewritten and the anger begins follow a natural course of healing. The same goes for the feelings of pain and loneliness when the therapist disappoints. That pain heals by catharsis just like the pain from trauma.

This is how the therapeutic relationship heals. At first the feeling is towards the therapist, and may be uncomfortable and threatening. As the therapist encourages exploration of what is happening, the feeling heals a little and becomes more safe. With safety, the mind is able to furnish the original context involving the parents and sibling or other earlier experience. Now, the therapist is able to serve as a comforting and empathic witness. Those are the conditions for catharsis: Feelings being activated with their original details in a newly safe and empathic context.

There are still a few important points to clarify. First, there is some misconception in therapist circles that having a healthy relationship with your therapist constitutes a "corrective emotional experience" and will heal you. Having a nice therapist who doesn't have children or conflicting needs is not enough for healing and growth to take place. The reason is that "niceness" tends to reinforce or suppression of shameful, immature, or problematic feelings. When feelings are suppressed, catharsis can't take place. The troublesome moments in therapy, whether they involve feelings about the therapist or some other difficult emotions, are the ones that can bring us to a cusp where there is opportunity for transformation.

Second, let's not mix up intellectual clarity with empathic understanding. "Mindfulness" doesn't mean gaining an intellectual perspective. It refers to an emotional sense of being understood and accepted, or perhaps acceptable. It is true that the therapist often has some wisdom about the situation and can share that with us, but the thing that makes for catharsis is the fact that the therapist is in tune with our intense feelings but not overwhelmed by them. It is the therapist's calm empathy that activates neural networks representing safety. Intellectual understanding alone doesn't necessarily mean empathy. Furthermore, "intellectualization" can and often does facilitate suppression of feeling, which, as stated above, means catharsis can't take place.

Finally, what about feelings that come up when the therapist actually does something wrong. Therapists can make mistakes and do have counter-transferences. They can be caught unaware of their own emotions and can say or do things that are not in the patient's best interest. If the error is not so grave as to end therapy, then there is still work to do for both the therapist and patient. Forgiving, too, involves the process of catharsis, whether we are forgiving a therapist or anyone else. Once again, there is a cusp between the feelings of hurt and anger that have been aroused by the error and feeling the therapist's empathy with our hurt.

Now the complicated part. Much of the time when a break in attunement is due to a therapist error, it also arouses feelings associated with unfinished business from the past. Just because the therapist has participated in creating the problem doesn't mean the feelings all stem from the present. It is likely that there are also feelings from the past piggybacked on top of the present ones. How can you tell? When the feelings are out of proportion to what has happened in the present, it usually means that something from the past was activated as well. Unfortunately, in situations like this, when the therapist's role is not error-free or "clean" it is much more difficult to sort out feelings come from where. The rule is this: Therapist and patient will have to first sort through and heal the problem in the therapeutic relationship before clarifying what comes from the past. Only then, when here-and-now feelings are no longer intense, is there a chance to identify and address what comes from the past. If clarity is not possible because of the murkiness of the situation, dealing with feelings from the past may have to wait till they are activated again under circumstances that are less confused.

[tosca203]

Thanks for including the quote. It really helped me understand some things about working through transference. If you are really relating to this, too, I think you should try to go through this process with your T. It sounds like it might be hard at the beginning, but positive overall. Good luck!

Wow, I was just reading this same quote a couple of days ago due to attachment stuff with my T.

Thank you so much for posting this. I want to read the book now. especially this part rang true for me "Now the complicated part. Much of the time when a break in attunement is due to a therapist error, it also arouses feelings associated with unfinished business from the past. Just because the therapist has participated in creating the problem doesn't mean the feelings all stem from the present. It is likely that there are also feelings from the past piggybacked on top of the present ones. How can you tell? When the feelings are out of proportion to what has happened in the present, it usually means that something from the past was activated as well. Unfortunately, in situations like this, when the therapist's role is not error-free or "clean" it is much more difficult to sort out feelings come from where. The rule is this: Therapist and patient will have to first sort through and heal the problem in the therapeutic relationship before clarifying what comes from the past. Only then, when here-and-now feelings are no longer intense, is there a chance to identify and address what comes from the past. If clarity is not possible because of the murkiness of the situation, dealing with feelings from the past may have to wait till they are activated again under circumstances that are less confused."

regarding the current situation with my t. wow.

[ElectricManatee]

From my perspective, this passage is spot-on. I have experienced very similar things with my T. One time she made a very minor and understandable mistake (think logistical thing), and I got intensely angry. She got me in for a sooner appointment (same day), and by the time I got there I felt guilty for being angry because I knew it was just an honest mistake. She was able to draw out the hurt and deal with it in an understanding way, even though I could tell that she herself was feeling very sorry about having made the error. It would have been easier for her to apologize profusely and shut down the irrational anger (we both would have felt relieved then), but she knew that it would be helpful for me to have somebody really hear and understand my anger for once in my life. She was tough enough to really listen and explore it, without getting defensive about her mistake. And it was a huge moment in my therapy. I'm glad she handled it gently and made it into a growth opportunity for me, and I know that it strengthened our relationship. (She did apologize at the time and has even mentioned since then that she regrets the mistake, even though I am super over it.)

Reading your post, it kind of sounds like this passage made you question whether you want to leave your current T, and if so, I'm wondering why. I understand how rare it is for you to get attached to somebody, but this T does not sound like somebody who is secure or experienced enough to do this for you. Think about the interaction the passage describes: Calm, safe environment, you're freaking out, the therapist is emphatically NOT freaking out. The situation stays that way for as long as you need it to for you to become calm and to feel understood. The T understands (even without you having to recognize it) that the intense stuff is about you, not about her. You can be extremely upset with the T about something that is not even her fault (sick kid) and she STILL isn't getting defensive or upset. Does that sound like something you can consistently expect from your current T?

One thing that maybe isn't clear about finding the right person to have this experience with is that they are actually (counterintuitively) unlikely to activate a strong attachment response from you right away. And by right away, I mean it might take months. Healthy, stable people seem unbelievably boring when you are used to chaos being necessary for you to get that intense, connected feeling. I'm super attached to my T, but it took years for me to get to the point where I felt that way about her and thus could do this kind of work. It sounds like you are ready now, so it might happen faster for you if you are willing to be brave, but I personally am 100% sure it needs to be with a different T.

[nottrustin]

Looks like an awesome book. The section you quoted describes perfectly how I feel when T has to cancel because she is sick. I worry about her because of a chronic medical condition that she has. It can be very serious of unable to control with medications. At the same time I get very frustrated and my abandonment issues surface. The logical part of me knows she needs to take care of herself. She has never done anything to cause my anger/ frustration so I feel horrible for being upset because she is sick.

[unaluna]

Just to complicate things further, when things get to this point, i usually yell at t: "youre acting just like my mother!" And he responds, "youre acting just like your mother!" Its like the poor t isnt even in the room. Its me vs mom. Id vs superego. Or whatever. Thats why i keep harping on, its not t - it would be the same with any (good) t. Its us.

[Calilady]

I found your post very interested, EM. Especially when you said that, "But she knew that it would be helpful for me to have somebody really hear and understand my anger for once in my life. She was tough enough to really listen and explore it, without getting defensive..."

You're correct in that it's uncertain if my T can provide this to me, and like you, it's what I need. I can't recall a time in my life where I told an attachment figure that they hurt me and it be "gently explored."

Last session when I returned, I told her, "Because I'm attached, you now have the capability of hurting me with your words. It's like I get more sensitive than I usually am. Last week when you called me 'rude' it hurt me. It cut me."

Her reply was, "Look, you've been like this since day one. I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you anymore. It damages your relationships. I don't care if I'm in your phone or not, they/she (my friends) do, I don't. Your the one ruining your relationships, not me."

And with that, I felt 10 years old again. Scolded. Pain ignored. But maybe I'm being too sensitive like I usually am? I'm so unsure. I also walked out with a lot of guilt and shame, because I realize I am the common denominator in my relationships. It's why I'm in therapy.

Yes, it's rare I grow attached and very hard to let go (once I've allowed it to happen, which usually happens right under my nose because if I was to detect an attachment forming, I'd stop it dead in it's tracks) and boring and stable seem so, well, yawning to me. LOL.

I find myself wanting tell my T how much I care about her. To reassure her that when I tell her my needs, it's not an indictment on her as a clinician. That I believe in her.

Last session I heard how I wanted her to fail. How I was pointing all the fingers at her. How I was blaming her. I find myself wanting to reassure her.

Is she triggering me or re-traumatizing me? This is what I do...I beg and plead women to see how much I care for them, starting with my mother.

I really don't know what to do. I'm so dang confused at the moment. I want to progress with my healing. I don't want to be avoidant anymore. Ugh...

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

From my perspective, this passage is spot-on. I have experienced very similar things with my T. One time she made a very minor and understandable mistake (think logistical thing), and I got intensely angry. She got me in for a sooner appointment (same day), and by the time I got there I felt guilty for being angry because I knew it was just an honest mistake. She was able to draw out the hurt and deal with it in an understanding way, even though I could tell that she herself was feeling very sorry about having made the error. It would have been easier for her to apologize profusely and shut down the irrational anger (we both would have felt relieved then), but she knew that it would be helpful for me to have somebody really hear and understand my anger for once in my life. She was tough enough to really listen and explore it, without getting defensive about her mistake. And it was a huge moment in my therapy. I'm glad she handled it gently and made it into a growth opportunity for me, and I know that it strengthened our relationship. (She did apologize at the time and has even mentioned since then that she regrets the mistake, even though I am super over it.)

Reading your post, it kind of sounds like this passage made you question whether you want to leave your current T, and if so, I'm wondering why. I understand how rare it is for you to get attached to somebody, but this T does not sound like somebody who is secure or experienced enough to do this for you. Think about the interaction the passage describes: Calm, safe environment, you're freaking out, the therapist is emphatically NOT freaking out. The situation stays that way for as long as you need it to for you to become calm and to feel understood. The T understands (even without you having to recognize it) that the intense stuff is about you, not about her. You can be extremely upset with the T about something that is not even her fault (sick kid) and she STILL isn't getting defensive or upset. Does that sound like something you can consistently expect from your current T?

One thing that maybe isn't clear about finding the right person to have this experience with is that they are actually (counterintuitively) unlikely to activate a strong attachment response from you right away. And by right away, I mean it might take months. Healthy, stable people seem unbelievably boring when you are used to chaos being necessary for you to get that intense, connected feeling. I'm super attached to my T, but it took years for me to get to the point where I felt that way about her and thus could do this kind of work. It sounds like you are ready now, so it might happen faster for you if you are willing to be brave, but I personally am 100% sure it needs to be with a different T.

[Calilady]

If I'm begging and pleading with her to understand (or at least I feel like it), reassuring her that I do care about her and that telling her "my needs" isn't pointing fingers or an indictment on her capabilities, am I just doing what I usually do...imploring women to understand me? Looping behavior?

I felt traumatized all over again. My attachment figure didn't care, she didn't see me upset and on the verge of tears and all I could think was, "If I can get out of here, if I can get away from her w/o her seeing me upset, I can get to my car and I'll be safe." I almost nearly blocked her out right after and ended therapy. It was too much. I don't think she meant to do it (like an intentional triggering kinda thing)...but I'm unsure.

Then there's the avoidant crap. She told me she's felt I've been looking for a reason to run since all of this began. Am I?

It's so dang muddled and messy...

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Just to complicate things further, when things get to this point, i usually yell at t: "youre acting just like my mother!" And he responds, "youre acting just like your mother!" Its like the poor t isnt even in the room. Its me vs mom. Id vs superego. Or whatever. Thats why i keep harping on, its not t - it would be the same with any (good) t. Its us.

But does it ever go back to him? What he's doing wrong? Does he get defensive and say, "You've wanted me to fail since day one."

I'm so very confused.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Calilady

But does it ever go back to him? What he's doing wrong? Does he get defensive and say, "You've wanted me to fail since day one."

I'm so very confused.

Of course you want your t to fail. You want to change the script and have a happy ending. Great. Thats one down. Now you only have to change the rest of the world.

Or - you change yourself, and get along better with the rest of the world.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Of course you want your t to fail. You want to change the script and have a happy ending. Great. Thats one down. Now you only have to change the rest of the world.

Or - you change yourself, and get along better with the rest of the world.

I dunno, Una. I get the fallacy of trying to change the world but there is something to be said for that much-vaunted safe holding environment that therapy is supposed to provide, precisely so that you can come to terms with the fact that you can't change the world.

I do think an authentically unfazed response from a T is critical. In the absence of that, it is rather hard to say where a therapeutic relationship ends and a "real" (read dysfunctional) relationship begins.

(Or maybe I'm just over-sensitive, now that I seem to have chewed through two Ts in short order.)

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

I do think an authentically unfazed response from a T is critical. In the absence of that, it is rather hard to say where a therapeutic relationship ends and a "real" (read dysfunctional) relationship begins.

(Or maybe I'm just over-sensitive, now that I seem to have chewed through two Ts in short order.)

Therapy is NOT the process of winning arguments with your t. I know it seems like it should be, but its not. Thats kinda like all left brain logical work. But therapy work is right brain feeeeeeeling stuff.

Remember the Bazooka Joe comic, where hes looking for a quarter on the street? He lost it on 4th street, but hes looking for it on Main, because the light is better on Main. Same thing. Only different! You can argue til the cows come home, thats not doing the work. My t wont argue.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

(Or maybe I'm just over-sensitive, now that I seem to have chewed through two Ts in short order.)

Just two? Novice! I got through five in two years!

Though that was mostly due to moving and at least one of them was good at their job.

OP - you say you always try to convince women that you care for them? Beg, plead, etc.? Maybe show them instead of talking? In this case, by recognizing that other things are going on, not just whatever hurt your therapist inflicted?

And I think some part of every client wants our therapists to fail. For different reasons, but mostly because if they succeed our lives will change and can we handle a new normal?

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Just two? Novice! I got through five in two years!

Though that was mostly due to moving and at least one of them was good at their job.

OP - you say you always try to convince women that you care for them? Beg, plead, etc.? Maybe show them instead of talking? In this case, by recognizing that other things are going on, not just whatever hurt your therapist inflicted?

And I think some part of every client wants our therapists to fail. For different reasons, but mostly because if they succeed our lives will change and can we handle a new normal?

I mean, do I have to do that though? Also, I'm there every week and grateful for her help. Just by being their illicit trauma and activates my attachment system.

When I handed her a published paper talking about attachment trauma, she said that was me trying to end it. On the contrary, I was gonna ask her if we should go up to 2x's per week. I'm trying to help her help me.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

OP - you say you always try to convince women that you care for them? Beg, plead, etc.? Maybe show them instead of talking?

Thanks for hiliting this. In my case, i did this to show the other person that i could be better to them than my mother was to me. I.e., i was trying to give them the present i wanted for myself.

Maybe its not what they want, ya know?

[Calilady]

What's catharsis? What's healing?

If I have a tendency to try to win the love of a woman, for instance my mother (when I was a kid), by getting good grades, helping around the house, etc. but it never seems like it's enough, that when she accuses me of not doing enough, I beg and plead to see what have I done...but I can't because she's emotionally unavailable...

Isn't it just repeating the pattern? Trying to be a good client, bringing my therapist things (like food; cupcakes, acai bowls, etc.), being proactive in my therapy, that when she accuses me of not wanting to succeed, I'm begging and pleading with her?

Shouldn't I just realize I can't make her see my side, that I'm a good person, and I don't need her to necessarily agree with me for me to be whole? That I'm human, I'll make mistakes, but that I'm worthy of care and support?

Me confused!!

[unaluna]

Good post! I can actually hear you now!

You ARE a good person, just because you exist. Hey, my brother didnt get as good of grades as i did, and MOM LIKED HIM BEST - wth? Grades etc are a - idk, go slay the dragon and you can have the princess, right? But theyre lying. We never get that princess.

[ElectricManatee]

Originally Posted by Calilady

What's catharsis? What's healing?

If I have a tendency to try to win the love of a woman, for instance my mother (when I was a kid), by getting good grades, helping around the house, etc. but it never seems like it's enough, that when she accuses me of not doing enough, I beg and plead to see what have I done...but I can't because she's emotionally unavailable...

Isn't it just repeating the pattern? Trying to be a good client, bringing my therapist things (like food; cupcakes, acai bowls, etc.), being proactive in my therapy, that when she accuses me of not wanting to succeed, I'm begging and pleading with her?

Shouldn't I just realize I can't make her see my side, that I'm a good person, and I don't need her to necessarily agree with me for me to be whole? That I'm human, I'll make mistakes, but that I'm worthy of care and support?

Me confused!!

Yes. To all of this.

There's a huge potential for these situations to be a total mindf**k. You're bringing your issues with you to the relationship (as you should, since it's therapy). Your T is distant and unaccepting. She can't see things from your point of view, and she's blaming your issues for all the problems in the relationship. You think, "Hmm. This seems familiar and comfortable. Maybe I can make it different this time." But the problem is that it isn't different at all. Your T is helping you re-enact old relationship patterns. She's going along with it, and then she's blaming you for getting the same thing you always get, when really the T is supposed to be the one who refuses to get sucked in so she can guide you toward seeing what a healthy relationship looks like.

It's another red flag that your T is needing validation from you (and accepting gifts in this situation seems weird to me too). She should be getting support from other people in her life, not her clients. One time I said some pretty harsh things to my T when I was upset (including that I didn't think she could help me), and she didn't take it personally. I apologized later because I realized what I said wasn't true, but I didn't feel like she thought an apology was necessary. We could have easily repaired the relationship without it. All she wants is for me to be myself, even when that gets messy.

Do you think that the shame and the blame from your T are helpful to you? It seems like you are stuck spending a lot of time wondering what is going wrong and what you can do to make it right. Your needs and your potential for growth are getting lost while you wonder how you can coerce your T into helping you.

ETA: You might be interested in the concept of repetition compulsion.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by Calilady

What's catharsis? What's healing?

If I have a tendency to try to win the love of a woman, for instance my mother (when I was a kid), by getting good grades, helping around the house, etc. but it never seems like it's enough, that when she accuses me of not doing enough, I beg and plead to see what have I done...but I can't because she's emotionally unavailable...

Isn't it just repeating the pattern? Trying to be a good client, bringing my therapist things (like food; cupcakes, acai bowls, etc.), being proactive in my therapy, that when she accuses me of not wanting to succeed, I'm begging and pleading with her?

Shouldn't I just realize I can't make her see my side, that I'm a good person, and I don't need her to necessarily agree with me for me to be whole? That I'm human, I'll make mistakes, but that I'm worthy of care and support?

Me confused!!

Confused? It seems so clear!

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by Calilady

Isn't it just repeating the pattern? Trying to be a good client, bringing my therapist things (like food; cupcakes, acai bowls, etc.), being proactive in my therapy, that when she accuses me of not wanting to succeed, I'm begging and pleading with her?

Does she want cupcakes, though? Or acai bowls? Or poems? Is that what a good therapeutic relationship is based on?

If you're going to stay with her, why not stop doing all the things you usually do and live for yourself, not someone else? Easier said than done, but if she doesn't like that either, then she's a bad choice all around.

You know that Seinfeld episode where George acts the opposite of his instincts and suddenly everything goes awesome for him? There's something to that.

[stopdog]

I completely agree that one should live for one's self. Not in a a selfish way, but in a way that means one is making choices in one's own best interest etc. I say screw trying to be a good client or trying to make a therapist happy or like you or whatever.

Reading that psychobabbly crap from that author quoted makes me want to rip off his arm and beat him over the head with it. I find that sort of language and idea idiotic and patronizing.

I do not experience those guys the way so many of you describe. If what that guy described happened to me - I would be furious.

I understand the need to please the people around you. The relationship that you described with your mother is very similar to the dynamic between my father and I. Funny enough, I too act this out with RoboT to an extent. But a million times what SD said. At the end of the day, we can only live for ourselves. I think that intrinsic acceptance is so much more valuable than extrinsic approval.

That said, I was moved by the quote in the OP. It helped to put my last session into perspective. I was wrought with emotion, but it felt oddly good. It's because RoboT was using the friction in the therapeutic relationship to try and help me cope with some of my attachment issues. Thanks for posting

[Calilady]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Does she want cupcakes, though? Or acai bowls? Or poems? Is that what a good therapeutic relationship is based on?

If you're going to stay with her, why not stop doing all the things you usually do and live for yourself, not someone else? Easier said than done, but if she doesn't like that either, then she's a bad choice all around.

You know that Seinfeld episode where George acts the opposite of his instincts and suddenly everything goes awesome for him? There's something to that.

This is what I've started thinking today. My ex-husband told me over dinner, OUT OF THE BLUE, "Ya know, you're still loyal to her even now, after all of this." I agreed. He leaned in. "You know that you can NEVER, EVER MAKE her see that, right?"

I began to get upset. Def a wound there. I do see what you're saying and have been thinking the same thing myself. I don't know I were to articulate that to her, what it would be met with. I'm not sure it even matters anymore. But how does this work within the T relationship if she becomes defensive? Am I not just sticking around to deal with my mom again, just differently? Will I have maxed out on all that I can cash out of this?

I usually run. To stay in this is very new and confusing.

[unaluna]

A t relationship is like math - its more symbolic than actual. Resolutions are symbolic and feeeeeeling-ish. The resolution is not going to come by the t loving your cupcakes. Its gonna come when you FEEEEL why you want to bring her cupcakes. Maybe eating cupcakes together will help you get in touch with those feelings.