T asked the same question as most of you!

I had my session and it was about like I thought it would be, which leaves me where I usually am when this happens: sad and slightly depressed. I learned some things about the way T treats me that I didn't know before. I know I have to learn to take care of that part who wants.....

I'm getting ahead of myself. T wasn't upset about my Googling or finding out her bf's last name. She wanted to know what most of you did: why do I feel I have to tell her? I gave her my reasons and she immediately brought it back to me, not her. When was the earliest time I did something bad that I thought I should be punished for. I couldn't think of much except one small incident when I was 5 and climbed a fence in my yard, because my male playmate wanted to. My skirt got caught on the fence and I was hanging upside down. My friend ran to get my mother and I don't remember anymore except being scared I was going to fall and get hurt. Maybe embarrassed I was hanging upside down too!

T asked what my adult Self would do if she were there. I said, "get me down and then hug me, and maybe say she loved me." I don't think I should have gotten punished though, and I probably didn't. At this point I told T I wanted HER to say she still loved me and she wasn't angry with me, so she did.

T asked me what I can tell that part when she wants to do something like that again, (not the fence climbing, the crossing people's boundaries) or when people don't tell her what she wants to know. I said I didn't know, so I'm supposed to think about it.

When I told T that I was triggered by her telling me "half the story", I said she was teasing me. She told me something new. She discloses a lot, but not as much to me as to other clients because I will want to know more and more, and it feeds my wanting to merge with her. So I take it that she understands when I say I want to be part of her life, but that's not a goal of therapy, so she ignores it. I said that it doesn't work because I want to know more when she doesn't tell me! She says that she works to have a middle ground in disclosing information to me! That makes me sad. She's doing it for my own good but I don't like it. She did tell me something about one of her children that she thought I knew, but I didn't. She's definitely not a blank slate T, never was. Just more so to me. For my own good. Sigh.

When I asked what were her feelings about my doing something she didn't want me to do, she said again that "everyone Googles; it's all out there, but when you tell me you found something, I feel like you're saying "Gotcha; you didn't tell me so I found out anyway." I agreed that's part of it. She doesn't tell me so that bothers me; it's the left out, being shut out feeling." So I'm back to "why do I have to tell her?" I said so that I can share her life with her; I'm not left out. Or that's my intention. I know therapy isn't like that and I'll never be in her life. She knows it's the wanting to merge but I don't know how to stop that.

So, we are obviously not done with this work. There's a lot that is still unclear to me. The way I react to T is stronger than I do in real life. She is concerned that I feel like I'm bad and have to be punished. I tried to say "I WANT to be punished" and spanked but she doesn't want to go in that direction, it seems. Her focus is on what I can do when that part wants to act in a way that's not good for me. My SELF is supposed to running the show, not that part. Basically what many of you posted, but I don't know how to do that yet.

My T is good. She stays on course with me, and refuses to make it be about her! I haven't finished grieving for the loss.

I asked her about not writing love in the emails. She said "you don't always write love either." I said, "yes, when I'm angry with you, so I thought maybe you were angry" She said. "I still love you and I'm not angry. I care about you. Can you hear me telling you that?" I said "yes".

I told her maybe I did it now because I felt distant because of my health and that session she was distracted, so I wanted to cause a reaction in her, and wanted intensity.

I would feel better if she punished me. Or maybe that's a fantasy, even a romantic/sexual one. She probably would have "glossed over it" like I feared, not being upset that I found out information at all. Idk.

One thing I did right away. I paid her full fee, said I wanted to start the year out right. She was very appreciative. I did the adult thing there at least.

Rainbow, do you have other supports in your life aside from your therapist? I'm just curious. It sounds like you put a lot of thought and energy into your relationship with T. Is there anybody else special in your life, like friends, family or a romantic partner?

Sounds like a great session, Rainbow. Glad everything worked out.

I don't think it worked out. I feel stuck.

I have friends and family but no partner. My husband died 2 years ago.

I wonder if there is some connection between wanting to be punished / noticed now, yet not wanting to be noticed before (the broken finger, the selective mutism)?

It's strange. I always secretly wanted to be noticed but at the same time didn't want to call attention to myself because of my shyness. Maybe not so strange. I wanted to be an actress, and many of them are shy.

Interesting thing your T said about disclosing less to you!

I feel my T is really opaque, and yet she's said the opposite to me: That she discloses more to me and is more "open" because she thinks I need it. However, I still perceive her as opaque. And I'm definitely someone curious about my therapist's life. For instance, I found both her public and private instagrams through googling and told her when I did. She, too, wanted to discuss why I told her. So we talked about how I'm curious and how guilt made me want to confess to her.

I'm glad your T wasn't shaming or punitive when you told her you found her BF's full name despite her not wanting you to know.

About wanting your Adult Self to run the show and not completely the boundary pushing Child Part, my T calls it "emotion mind" when one does things out of emotion. We do also take about child and adult parts. I swing between that mindset and a much more rational mindset. T talks about achieving Wise Mind. It's a DBT thing:

Emotion mind |---- Wise Mind ----| Rational mind

She talks about developing mindfulness so that I can pause before I react out of emotion mind / child part.

Edit: fixed broken tags

When I was reading about your latest session I was thinking how professional your therapist is and it seems like she reacted exactly how she should which is: focus on finding the solution instead of dwelling and extensively discussing what happened and how it made you both feel.
The way you describe her reactions and responses is that she was trying not to focus on your emotional intensity but instead on how to control it. You say she ignored those few attempts of you trying to stir it up even more: 'I want to be punished' and when this didnt provoke a reaction being more extreme with the 'spanking'
And it seems all you wanted was this 'non-proffesional' reaction of anger that would prove its two people talking not a therapist-patient.
She does love you, I am sure she means it but I don't think you 'hear' when she says it because its not the type of love you want from her: this is the professional, caring love of a therapist not of a family memeber or friend.
You've mentioned before that you would not google any of your friends etc thats why i think that this boundary crossing is specific to you and t. It really seems to me that you are trying to creat a closness that will never be there and if that cannot be achieved you act to provoke a reaction that would be humanly (like anger) and not professional.
It seems to me that this makes you 'a little depressed'.
Again, I might be so so wrong. This story does strike a chord with me but I don't think the relationship I have in mind is one between me and t, just somone who is unapproachable. it seems indifference is the worst reaction, far worse than anger...

confused, I just read your reply and it stings because I think you are correct. I have to go somewhere now but will definitely write more later. Thank you! I needed to hear what you wrote.

I am glad she asked you that too, because I find it both fascinating and perplexing.

As the first thread established, many of us google whoever we feel like with no guilt and any others simply observe the boundaries indicated the T prefers.

Pretty much no one repetitively googles their T, and then confesses.

I have a healthy fear of my T- well , not fear but awareness that therapy has really stylized and intense rules that he takes way seriously.

It would be very masochistic to be like hey T I googled you and found out xyz bc I might get an" I am disappointed in you speech" or I might get terminated or he might say the right things about boundaries but trust me less as a person( rightfully).

I also might feel that for practical purposes, it is tough luck if they get googled, bc we all do by our clients . I wouldn't be at all surprised if my T googled me, or looked at my FB, but he definitely isnt telling if he did. I assume my clients and students google me, and I am mindful how I use social media etc. I dont feel that T's have any special right to online privacy, and they need to be like everyone else and be media savvy if they are going to use it.

I have no questions about why you google your T, just why you immediately confess. Her response was identical to my first impression of "GOTCHA", but now I dont think that is it. You do it more wistfully than in a HAHA sense.

A good friend of mind raises tiptop sight hounds, and she uses Googe Earth to check out prospective homes for her puppies. At first I was horrified bc it seemed like an invasion of their privacy, but now I am so used to her doing it, I dont even flinch. For SURE, she never tells the people, but she knows if they lied about having a fenced yard ( unless Google Earth is like 7 years behind, which seems possible).

What do you think about the ethics of her doing that to place puppies?

Thank you. It seems like we have some behaviors in common regarding searching then telling! Did your T also tell you that Googling is okay, and not to feel guilty, or did she think your guilt was valid? I've taken a DBT course too so I know about the states of mind. My T is also big on mindfulness. I have to work on not reacting out of emotion mind and getting my adult part to comfort my child part when she wants to react right away. I'm also curious about your T wanting to disclose more because she thinks you need it, when my T feels the opposite. Can you post about that or send me a PM?

I had been wondering why I felt disappointed and slightly depressed after my session, along with vague, unsettled feelings. I knew it had to do with T's reaction, but you nailed it! I dislike when she always switches everything to me and my life, but you wrote so clearly about her reasons and my disappointment. I wanted to focus on the feelings and not the solution. She even started to talk about alcohol and I stopped her because I knew she was going to say it's like an addiction. This pattern isn't new to me but no other T talked about early attachment issues as the cause, like my current T does. She wants me to take care of my parts and "run the show" but I don't try hard enough to do that when it's about her and me.

It confused me though I wasn't totally surprised when it seemed like my T didn't care that I Googled her bf! It seems like she didn't tell me his last name more for my sake than for hers, because she thinks knowing too much fuels my desire to merge with her (her words). I thought it was because she wanted to keep it private, but no, she said everything is available on the internet, just don't TELL HER I do it. So, does she think I acted disrespectfully or not? It's only the telling her that was disrespectful, apparently. So that part was "two people talking" but you're right, I didn't get the anger and punishment I thought I deserved. She was indifferent, and I get what you mean. That's the worst thing. She was and is only interested in my emotional state, feelings, and ability to become healthier. As it should be, of course.

So, my work in therapy is still to find a way to take care of my own parts and be able to separate from my T, something I never did with my own mother until after she died.

I don't KNOW how to tell that part who wants to know things that she can't do that. Now it's okay to Google, so maybe I can tell her that's okay but work on not needing to tell my T? Or that Googling isn't good for me.

Confused, my feelings are more intense when it's about my T, and I don't Google my friends except one time when one of them wouldn't tell me her age, but I do feel shut out when they don't tell me things I want to know. Not information I can Google, more like their plans. So I think I need to be able to tell that part that they are not shutting her out, it's just that some things are private. T commented that I keep some things private, that everyone has that right. Obvious to an adult.

So, I'm going to write down for T what I can tell that child part, and also ask her more about it. We need to discuss if her disclosing more to me will help or hinder me. I told her she teased me by telling me "half the story." That's what it felt like.

I'm sorry to keep writing about this. No one has to read or respond. I'm feeling guilty about that too, now. I'm not sure why so many people are interested, so I hope my writing is at least helpful for some of you. I am writer, not a professional one, but it's my preferred way of communicating.

Thank you for responding. T said she feels like "Gotcha" but I agree with you that it's not the reason, or at least not the main reason. I honestly think guilt was always number one reason, but since that's been removed, I don't know exactly why I tell her. I would probably still feel guilty if I do it again, but not as much. I think something I posted in one of the other threads, and I did tell my T this yesterday, is the main reason. It's my wanting to be closer to her, to have more in common with her, like a friend. Now I know her bf so I'm more " in the know" about her life. That fits more than the "Gotcha" though I can see how that was her reaction. I don't do it to be malicious; I'm not that kind of person. But the downside is that I'm more jealous of her because she found someone and has another chance at happiness. It's not good to be jealous. I have grandchildren; she doesn't. "It is what it is in life."

About the puppies. I don't think it's wrong because your friend is doing it for a positive reason, to be sure the puppies have good homes with responsible owners. The puppies themselves can't check it out but she can.

Sure.

Like you, I google to know more about my T. My T believes anything she puts on the internet is public information, so she takes appropriate safeguards as she sees fit.

She thinks googling is OK and was rather flattered (her words...apparently I'm the first client to tell her I googled her), and understood my curiosity. I'd also told her I'd Goggled all my past therapists.

I did feel guilty and ashamed of my curiosity. She understood and saw it as a desire to connect with her.

Also I explained that it's also to even out power dynamics for me: People in my family used my vulnerabilities and secrets to hurt me, get me beaten, so I felt not knowing anything about her to be very scary.

I told her that if she said she didn't want me to look at her social media, I would stop immediately.

I voluntarily told her what I found AND how I found it, because I felt guilty, and also because it was easy to find and therefore anyone with basic internet knowledge would be able to find it.

Things I've found via googling and simply using basic search functions on social media sites: Her public Flickr, her private Facebook, her two instagram accounts (One public which she is OK with me viewing, another once public which is now private.)

I actually found her public instagram because I found her "then-public, now private" instagram. She turned personal instagram private even though she mostly posts on her public instagram. She feels it's OK for me to look at her public instagram, because it's a thing she shares freely and she understands my desire to get a glimpse of her life outside her work. When she turned her personal instagram from public to private, she also blocked then unblocked me to undo my follow. I respected that boundary and didn't ask her why she prevented me from following it.

Her facebook was also locked down but I could see some posts, interests, likes even though we aren't and will never be Facebook friends. I typed up a guide with screenshots and printed it out so she would know how to it lock down quite well. Example, most people know profile pictures are public BUT don't know you can hide the description, who liked it and comments on it. And not many know that quite a lot of sections in your profile is set to public by default.

Why she said she self discloses more to me... I don't really know. I know she has said it's a clinical decision relevant to my treatment. I think it's because she sees me as a "trauma from prolonged child abuse survivor who is still being abused as an adult" and apparently a lot of clinical literature I've read writes that clients with complex trauma perceive neutrality as negative and don't benefit from a rigidly blank state therapist.

I haven't asked her much about herself despite:
» Being very, very curious about her thoughts, feelings, life
» Her saying I can ask ANY question, and she will answer unless it's too personal.

I also regularly worry that I'm pushing or crossing her boundaries, especially since I yearn for connection with her (which is embarrassing for me as I was very guarded and suspicious of her for a long time). I'm afraid that in my desire for emotional connection, I will cross her personal boundaries. Having had to learn that I am entitled to boundaries (since I was regularly beaten and had parents who are very invasive about everything in my life, including punishing me for "thought crime", invading privacy, parents feeling entitled to demand answers to extremely personal things), I'm afraid of inducing that same "violated" feeling in anyone. She has told me several times, very firmly, that I am "not a boundary pusher".

Yet...she won't tell me what SOME of her boundaries are, specifically, while she'll state SOME of her boundaries... Example, she won't say something like "you can send max X messages" only that "We'll discuss if you're messaging too much", and "My boundary is that I won't reply." She says that's because I always want to know "the rules" so I can ensure I never cross them.

Thanks for sharing, QuietMind. I wonder why you and I feel guilty after Googling when most people don't, and why that makes us confess. If others do feel guilt they are able to keep it from their T's. Also, is it only okay to Google the T, and not their family? Or does the "it's out there so it's public" apply to their family too?

My T told me Wednesday that she hates Facebook so she doesn't have an account anymore. I know her adult kids do, though. I used to look them up but I don't anymore.

My T says I'm perceptive. I can guess when something is wrong like when I figured out about her divorce before she told me. That wasn't by looking her up.

Maybe I see neutrality as negative too because I have a need to know a lot about my T. Because of my borderline diagnosis, T said she limits what she discloses. She said it would never be enough for me because of wanting to merge with her. She doesn't like labels and diagnoses. This was one of the few times she brought it up. Also that I could be pushing her away before she pushes me away, another BPD behavior. I don't know if it would be better for me to know more about her or not. When I feel present with her, and closely connected, it is good enough for me.

Again, thanks for sharing! It was interesting to read.

Hm, maybe it is the family thing, at least for me. I only felt like I had to say something to MC and ex-T once I found stuff about their respective spouses. A while back (before that), I found a YouTube video of MC doing a talk for a parenting website, but I felt no need to tell him about that.

I've certainly Googled current T but haven't felt guilt or the need to tell him--except for in the first session, where I talked about ex-T's and MC's reactions to my googling, he said he just expected people to google, and I admitted I'd googled him after making the appointment (which he was fine with). However, I haven't tried to google his family (or felt a need to). I know his wife's name, because it was mentioned at the end of a column he writes (that he mentions on his professional website, so I felt OK reading it). So it would be very easy just to type her name into the search bar (and it's not a particularly common last name). Yet I haven't felt the need/urge to google her and actually realize it could have a negative effect on me if I did. However, I suspect if I did end up doing that, I might feel guilty and like I should tell him.

Honestly, I know I feel guilty because I feel like I've gained information she hasn't told me. Hence telling her what I found...like a confession, sigh.

Like you, I don't google my friends and they'll share whatever they want to share when they want to. I never have the curiosity to google others in my life, only healthcare providers. I wonder if it's because T feels so blank slate compared to friends, acquaintances, coworkers.

Also I googled a therapist even when I'm not attached to them. But I didn't tell them. And I googled a former therapist and didn't tell them. It's just with my current T...

I don't google her family though I've found their social media because she's tagged them publicly on Facebook. I don't have much of an interest in them, though I do like seeing photos of T with her family and friends. She looks happy with them, and I'm glad for her.

I'm surprised your T limits disclosure because of your BPD diagnosis. My T practices DBT and schema therapy as she works with trauma and people with personality disorder traits (as they often have a history of trauma). Schema therapy encourages self disclosure for the therapist, even telling clients minor "secrets". I've read several clinician books and they've a lot of examples of types of self disclosure listed, and they write about more self disclosure than "other modalities", and my T is quite blank slate by schema therapy standards in those books. They also write that many clients, especially those with BPD are very perceptive and talks about self disclosing judiciously rather than hiding things. Self disclosure is also used to show the client that T is human, has flaws too, I guess to reduce the idealisation-devaluation cycle of splitting? T has done an exercise with me where she shared two personal negative beliefs about herself. She has also disclosed her feelings about some things I've said.

She HAS used empathic confrontation about not wanting us to "become more enmeshed" when I told her I worry about her feelings and has told me that overconcern for her feelings = therapy interfering. I'm not sure that's me wanting to merge with her.

For me, like you, what I value is closeness and connection with T rather than self disclosure...

I don't even know if she's dating though! Maybe my T is more blank slate than yours in general despite how she feels clinically that I benefit from self disclosure?

I don't think the googling is what you actually feel guilty about. I think it's the underlying desire behind the behavior that causes the guilt. You desire to invade your T's privacy and cross her boundaries. When I Google my T, I am attempting to feel closer to her without imposing on her or requiring anything special from her. With you, it's the opposite, as proven by your compulsion to tell her what you find. I don't think you are motivated by guilt at all.

I also think you struggle because you aren't willing to accept that you will never have the relationship you seek with your T. Sure, you've given some lip service to the notion, but I don't think you've allowed yourself to really believe the reality because it's too painful. Instead, you continue to look for loopholes. Also, it's important to understand that you don't "need" to know a lot about your T, you want to know a lot. Your T is trying to give you what you actually need by limiting information - but she can't control your inclination to sabotage yourself.

Could be more than one reason but you're probably correct. I don't think I want to change at this point in my life.

Self compassion is a huge gift to self. We all need someone to love us.
I know, pretty random post.
Just saying.

I agree with this... i do the same (not with t) and i would rather do absolutely everything orher than accept the reality of whats going on.

Why? You often seem to feel uncomfortable, frustrated, conflicted in a negative way, based on your many threads here. Why do you want to keep it the same?

Without rudeness, I wonder the point of therapy. You don't have to use it to change anything, it can just be venting, therapy doesn't have to change anything to be helpful - my question merely is whether it is useful for you ? Is the obsession helping in your life? (I find I obsess over therapy when I am distracting from real life)

I think therapy is neither here nor there for Rainbow. As she said, she's a writer. Maybe this is all just a "drama" There's is no therapy.

I use to belong to a alcoholic website. A woman use to write her "drama" she wasn't an alcoholic we layer found out. She was just using the forum to help get into to write her book by our reactions and interactions.
I smelled her or before she owned up.

By the way. Her book never got published.

I think pain seems someone to Therapy. A pain that can't be played with. Change is a by product.

Amazing post- so insightful, especially about loopholes and self-sabotage.