Originally Posted by Salmon77

In any case nobody's being forced to read and respond.

This is a mindless thing to say. This is a forum. The whole point is that people read and respond.

[Salmon77]

There are many threads here. If something seems like "macabre" "rubbernecking" at a "strange lifeless script," you are certainly welcome to skip it and read one that interests you.

[awkwardlyyours]

Originally Posted by Salmon77

There are many threads here. If something seems like "macabre" "rubbernecking" at a "strange lifeless script," you are certainly welcome to skip it and read one that interests you.

By the same token, if you disagree with a poster’s comment, you can skip it and move on.

Originally Posted by Salmon77

There are many threads here. If something seems like "macabre" "rubbernecking" at a "strange lifeless script," you are certainly welcome to skip it and read one that interests you.

I didn't say I wasn't interested. I said it was uncomfortable. It is the macabre nature of the content, as well as the high level of interest which other contributors express, that make it compelling.

[SalingerEsme]

Well, at least your screen name contains "sorry" ahead of time

The writing is as far from lifeless as you could get, and participating , learning, thinking, discussing helps when it helps, helps who it helps. What does a judgey comment contribute except information about the judger ?

[unaluna]

Can we please all just get along? So somebody says the thread isnt all unicorns farting rainbows - theyre not lying.

Eta - For example - normas phrase "a lifeless script" - i thought that describes the stone sequence pretty well. We never hear what the consulting group thought / said. We just hear the OP's defenses, one after another after another, like Columbo's "oh and another thing."

But its free, so who am i to complain. Plus its not my therapy. But yeah. Its a little weird. And compelling. Whats wrong with saying that?

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

I admit I am totally nosy about the latest news on LT's relationship with her therapist. However, I don't think you can say it's the equivalent of "rubber necking at a car accident." Making out that LT's therapy journey is some sort of disaster is both inaccurate and unkind. As for us "rubber-neckers," many people here struggle with attachment, like LT, and it's damned valuable to hear about someone else's experiences in therapy. As for the unhealthy desire you mention, that sort of makes sense. All I can say is that for me, writing about my sessions actually helps me process them (I write on another site, not here) and also deal with post-session separation anxiety. It's easier to get back to my life once I write about a session.

[Mully]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Can we please all just get along? So somebody says the thread isnt all unicorns farting rainbows - theyre not lying.

Eta - For example - normas phrase "a lifeless script" - i thought that describes the stone sequence pretty well. We never hear what the consulting group thought / said. We just hear the OP's defenses, one after another after another, like Columbo's "oh and another thing."

But its free, so who am i to complain. Plus its not my therapy. But yeah. Its a little weird. And compelling. Whats wrong with saying that?

I totally agree. I think this is the difficulty of a public forum. What is supportive and helpful to one person may inadvertently be hurtful for another. For me, I would want someone to say hey, I’m sorry your hurting, but did you see things from another perspective- you seem stuck in a cycle that you are constantly perpetuating but don’t seem to want to get out of because there is obviously a payoff for you. Yet another person may feel like anything but 100% agreeing with the op is harmful, and that the only helpful thing is to bash the T and tell the person that they are always right, no matter what. Idk. I’ve learned a lot from this forum- mostly about what I don’t want in my own life and my own therapy, and I guess that’s a good thing.

[stopdog]

I think there are different philosophies about telling others about one's appointments. I think sometimes writing about things and posting in great detail is a good way to get attention if that is what one wants. I admit I am puzzled by the posting of all of them rather than just a point or issue one might be having. But my puzzlement is really irrelevant if the poster finds it useful to do.

Here is one jungian's take on it (not all are jungians and this is just one view point)
The Vessel | Jung At Heart

and this guy is against others knowing as well (I greatly dislike this guy and find him snarky, not nearly as funny as he thinks he is, and condescending - but he seems to have an appeal for some people)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...i-introduction

[Middlemarcher]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

T: "First, I had to give a little background on you to the group, so they could more accurately assess what happened." Me: "Uh OK." T: "I told them how you had some boundary and attachment issues." Me: "You think I have boundary issues?" T: "Yes. You are often very affected by things I say, like they penetrate you in a way they wouldn't for most people." Me: "But I don't think of that as boundary issues, just being sensitive." T: "I would consider it a boundary issue, the letting things affect you, how you let what I or other people say to you penetrate the barrier. So the boundaries aren't as strong."

Going back in the thread a bit, I know. Many Ts do think of this as a boundary thing— “porous boundaries” is the term used in the literature, which I quite like. I used to feel tremendously affected by what other people said and did, my own mood easily swayed by the emotions of people around me. In trying to learn how to be less susceptible to this kind of thing, I used to literally imagine a porous bubble enclosing me, then envision it getting thicker, impermeable. That old childhood chant— I’m rubber, you’re glue.

[DP_2017]

Neither of us really know LT and we don't know her T so the only actual decisions can come from them. (Well mostly her)

That being said, I think it's perfectly ok to offer different views. I completely agree, that I would not spend so much time on the relationship...especially knowing the person I'm talking to, is uncomfortable and wont change. It's not a bad thing to discuss it sometimes or to a certain degree, it's good practice if nothing else... but I just feel like I personally, would rather spend more time on other things and work on making progress for myself. Again, end choice is up to LT. she knows he wont change. We all manage things different though.

The best advice, from my own issues with ruptures and such, is to set your own boundaries. I mean, for me, I am 100% allowed to email, text or call whenever. I don't though. I never email anymore. I only text if scheduled or I need to cancel and I haven't called in ages. It's tough but it helps me greatly with attachment. I think it could help you as well. Not trying to be harsh, just offering advice because the biggest goal is to get LT to be happy and able to manage her life in a way that she is more comfortable. I got myself very wrapped up in deep attachment, I had to find a a way to create distance, so I did my own boundaries.

I also would like to say, I never would post my session details publicly. I have many reasons. I do however write about every session, in a journal. So I get the need/want to do so. If sharing here is helpful....It's fine. We don't have to all agree with it or do the same...just accept it works for her.

I think this thread is here for opinions on all sides. So it's ok to disagree. LT... this is YOUR journey, YOUR life that you need/want to improve... we are here to support however we can

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Can we please all just get along? So somebody says the thread isnt all unicorns farting rainbows - theyre not lying.

Eta - For example - normas phrase "a lifeless script" - i thought that describes the stone sequence pretty well. We never hear what the consulting group thought / said. We just hear the OP's defenses, one after another after another, like Columbo's "oh and another thing."

But its free, so who am i to complain. Plus its not my therapy. But yeah. Its a little weird. And compelling. Whats wrong with saying that?

I took objection more to the tone of the post than to the content. It felt shaming the way the post was phrased, and was certainly condescending ("It feels as if there is no limit to your thirst for discussing your therapist and the relationship"). I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing that one finds a thread weird or compelling, but if you have an opposing viewpoint or criticism, would it hurt to use some tact?

[LonesomeTonight]

May respond more to certain posts later (I was out for a few hours doing real-life stuff with H and D!). But just wanted to talk about why I post here.

So, it helps me to type stuff out, but also to share it. (Like, I don't find just writing in a journal to be as helpful.) I'm not sure why I want to share it as well--it applies to sharing with ex-T, ex-MC, current T, on here, with others in my life, etc. I think it's partly because my mom insisted (and continues to insist) on so much secrecy, especially around mental health things. So it feels freeing in a way to be able to talk about this stuff with people, even if anonymously.

Also, when I was first struggling with transference for my former marriage counselor, I felt very alone. I discovered Attachment Girl's "Tales of a Boundary Ninja" blog, talking about her experience with transference, and it helped immensely. Then I discovered this forum and felt much less alone. Maybe writing about this is partly for me, but maybe also to potentially help others who are going through something similar.

I don't see how it's macabre at all...if you see it that way, then...just don't read it? I know I'm opening myself up to comments and criticism, but that's OK. I also am aware that no one really knows me as a person in real life (well I assume they don't! I suppose I might actually know someone on here) and they're not sitting in the room during my therapy. Plus everyone's thoughts are colored by their own experiences both in therapy and in life in general. So I take many comments with the proverbial grain of salt. There have been some great insights on here (and in other threads in which I've posted over the years). And I've gotten quite a bit out of those. There have also been some more hurtful comments, and I've done my best to accept them as someone's opinion without taking them too much to heart.

Note that I don't automatically consider any criticism of my T or how he does therapy or thoughts on my own issues in itself to be hurtful--it's more in how someone words something. The difference between saying "I'm concerned this therapist might not be the best choice for you" vs. "You're an idiot for staying with this T." Like...concern vs. more of a criticism of me as a person. Or "I'm curious as to why you give so much detail about your sessions" vs. "This is macabre."

[Echos Myron redux]

It's okay to post in any way you please. It's curious to me that someone would have such a strong opinion about the way you process your sessions, take the time to comment, acknowledge the irony, and still plow on regardless. This is an internet forum about therapy. People post about therapy here. Jeez.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

I took objection more to the tone of the post than to the content. It felt shaming the way the post was phrased, and was certainly condescending ("It feels as if there is no limit to your thirst for discussing your therapist and the relationship"). I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing that one finds a thread weird or compelling, but if you have an opposing viewpoint or criticism, would it hurt to use some tact?

Just wanted to say thanks for this...

[SalingerEsme]

Lt, thank you for sharing your journey. I get even more out of your posts than the Ninja Boundary blog .

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

So, it helps me to type stuff out, but also to share it.

This is, after all, the whole point of a psychotherapy forum.

[stopdog]

I never understood boundary ninja either. I completely disagreed with almost everything she wrote in terms of her attempts to explain how to do therapy -her own thoughts on her own therapy I just found puzzling.

Also we are not all going to agree on what is or is not tactful or good advice

[toomanycats]

I love reading your posts. I actually think it's a good thing to talk a lot about your relationship with your T -- I make a point of doing so myself, because I'm scared of missing "red flags" -- and also because others can sometimes offer helpful alternative points of view.

If I felt I couldn't talk about my relationship with C or the things going on in that office because of what someone else might think, that would be a big red flag to me that something was wrong.

[DP_2017]

TMC

It's completely ok to discuss the relationship, it was just more of a debate if it was too much of the sessions focused on that, as her T suggested. I agree, based on the write ups that it seems to be... especially knowing the relationship wont last. Sometime it has to end, and that sucks, but it's what we all face.

In my view of things, I am more concerned about her working on herself and getting better with whatever her needs are. I want her to look back a year from now and see a lot of progress in herself, so its' why I'm trying to politely encourage her to focus on other stuff...however if there is an issue, sure bring it up....

I wont ever bring them up anymore, because I know my T's limits and I can't deal with more ruptures.... but everyone is different.

LT...I hope I'm not coming off rude, not my intention, just looking out for you. I want you to be happy and make progress and not keep feeling stuck in these feelings.... I know how it is, anxiety is a nightmare. Your T seems to handle stuff fairly well, but there is still alot of discomfort with the attachment stuff and I feel, based on write ups, he will keep putting up the resistant, so from my view, that's why I feel, it's best to just let back a bit... at the end of the day though, its your therapy. I'm just doing my best to support, even though I'm terrible with words sometimes

Also, don't feel too bad about the comments on here.... one reason I refuse to post details about my T anymore, is so much hateful comments about him and us that I got. I wont judge your T as a person, I don't know him. I just know I can sense the discomfort with the attachment, maybe you need a T like that, that has the resistance, idk. Anyway, enough rambles.... LOL

Enjoy the rest of your weekend and hope you have good sessions next week too.

[Mully]

Originally Posted by toomanycats

I love reading your posts. I actually think it's a good thing to talk a lot about your relationship with your T -- I make a point of doing so myself, because I'm scared of missing "red flags" -- and also because others can sometimes offer helpful alternative points of view.

If I felt I couldn't talk about my relationship with C or the things going on in that office because of what someone else might think, that would be a big red flag to me that something was wrong.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with talking about the relationship with a T. I just worry sometimes that people on here can be so black and white and create red flags where there actually aren’t any, which leads to more distress for some people. The reality is that we are only getting part of a story, and one person’s perception of an encounter. That can be challenging.

For example, earlier this week, my T said “I won’t tell you not to end your life.” Now that statement by itself can seem really harsh. If I posted saying just that, people would probably judge her harshly and say she was awful. But I’m taking one sentence out of an entire conversation, and if I said the whole part I remember, it really wasn’t harsh. And truthfully, we are dealing with trauma and tough attachment stuff, and I don’t remember the whole thing.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by Mully

I don’t think there is anything wrong with talking about the relationship with a T. I just worry sometimes that people on here can be so black and white and create red flags where there actually aren’t any, which leads to more distress for some people. The reality is that we are only getting part of a story, and one person’s perception of an encounter. That can be challenging.

For example, earlier this week, my T said “I won’t tell you not to end your life.” Now that statement by itself can seem really harsh. If I posted saying just that, people would probably judge her harshly and say she was awful. But I’m taking one sentence out of an entire conversation, and if I said the whole part I remember, it really wasn’t harsh. And truthfully, we are dealing with trauma and tough attachment stuff, and I don’t remember the whole thing.

Well said, agree with all of this.

[zoiecat]

Hi LT. I have been following your sessions and wanting to weigh in for months now but it finally all seemwd to click for me anyway. I may be totally off and please feel free to ignore everything I say. I admire that in you. I disagree that you have anxiety over your thoughts and interpretations of what others say.

You seem to handle others comments and disagreement with you very well. I could be wrong but base this on the fact that you continue to post your sessions and put yourself out there for possible criticism. This is something I personally could never do because I am avoidant. I avoid conflict at all costs and take everything others say to me to heart even though I will never let them see that.

It appears to me that you only seem to take offense to what men or other authority think, feel, or say to you. Going way back to the thick of MC days when you were getting along and even with your old T, you seemed to always want their approval and reassurance that what you thought or felt was OK and or acceptable/normal. You used to even post that you were emailing or calling MC to receive reassurance. Maybe that is why you post on this forum as well, only you know the answer to that.

This might be a good thing to bring up in session. It seems to me to be a pattern. The whole stone issue and even the dream subject again seems to be about you wanting approval, acceptance, or reassurance that your thoughts and desires are OK. When T seems to disagree and not provide that reassurance is when you seem to feel the need to keep pushing deeper in hope of getting the answer you want to hear.

I do agree sometimes it seems that an unusual amount of time and effort is wasted on you trying to obtain that approval and getting this T to come to your way of thinking. I may be wrong but it seems like the lack of this is what ultimately caused you to terminate with your exT and MC.

While this seems to be a pattern that causes you much pain I would consider what you really want to gain from T. If you want to stop the cycle and improve your life I think this current T is good for you. He, like my T appear to not want to spend time on things that will not push you foward. The stone in his eyes seems to only perpetuate your attachment to him but most of all has morphed into your want of approval from him that this is OK as demonstrated by your eagerness for him to seek consultation over the issue. I can only assume that this was in hope of getting him to change his mind and provide you the reassurance you were looking for.

If you really want to stop the underlying cause of this pattern, I agree that time would be better spend on discussing your childhood with T. For him to help you move forward, he needs to understand the past. It seems that you had a productive last session when you opened up about your mother and provided T the full picture. This is what he needs in order to help you heal the past and ultimately the attachment issues.

T refusal to become enmeshed in the current attachment/approval seeking behaviors is his way of trying to get you unstuck and moving forward.

On the other hand if reassurance or approval is your main goal of therapy (and there is nothing wrong with that if so) then I don't think you will ever get much satisfaction from this T. It just doesn't seem like he is willing to go there.

Either way I wish you luck and hope you find the resolution you are looking for.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by Mully

....
For example, earlier this week, my T said “I won’t tell you not to end your life.” Now that statement by itself can seem really harsh. If I posted saying just that, people would probably judge her harshly and say she was awful. .....

But we're not all the same and would not all have the same response. I certainly would not judge a therapist harshly who said such a thing - in fact I would find it one of the few sensible and useful things I have ever heard of a therapist saying. I would find that sentence without any context at all as being comforting, a good position to take, the truth because a therapist has no business telling me to do or not to anything -ever.

I also like reading your stories, LT. Don't read them all, in part because I just don't spend that much time on PC, but typically I would read a report or two and then am very curious about the follow-up, what people comment etc. My opinion (and this may be controversial) is if we post on a public forum, we should be prepared to see all sorts of responses, and if we don't like some, it's our own responsibility to handle that and not to put our discomfort on other posters and scold them. I do agree with others that you seem to handle this wonderfully - whether it causes anxiety or irritation, you don't tend to project it onto others here. That, to me, demonstrates a good level of internal strength and ability to tell apart your problems from others', also decent boundaries in communication

For me, all these attachment/interpersonal anxieties are not something I tend to experience much or ever wanted to work on in therapy. I am more on the other side and can sometimes be dismissive and take people's feelings for granted - for me progress goes in the opposite direction, becoming more attentive to these things. So reading how someone else's stories, who is highly sensitive to this stuff, helps me recognize and remain aware of how it's better to communicate with different people. I guess I can learn from it a bit like your T does from you

It is also interesting how we all infuse your stories with subjective feelings and interpretations. It's a bit like your therapy provides some free therapy to many of us here. There are sometimes threads here on PC that unfold quite a lot like some kind of group therapy experience, and I always like those. So much stuff to think about and reflect on (whether in sharing here or just internally) and no need to go anywhere and pay anything.

I personally still like your T, and it's very clear to me that I do because his emotional, thinking and communication style seems to have similarities to mine, including what you and others find limitations. I think only you can say whether working with him is useful for you and worth the challenge. Reading your recent reports though, it sounds like you find it helpful and constructive, and that's all that matters!