i don't know how many people this applies to... i can't be the only one can i?

For starters, i think i am addicted. i dont have an addictive personality but PC has been giving me a place to go, something to do, that allows me to avoid others things which are challenging and scary. Not just a bit either... a LOT. i am so screwed now because of stuff i dont have done.

the second thing is how it is affecting therapy... is a client supposed to have a kind of inside track like this? i mean, wouldn't it have been better for me if i slowly worked up the courage to tell my T how i felt about the last T and then had a dialogue open up, rather than me reading all about it online, and the impact, and the causes, etc etc etc?

i'm starting to feel like i am scripting sessions, controllinghow they go because i have so many interactions here to read about and choose from. i feel like i am being manipulative without meaning to be.. because it's easier to hide if i do that. If i say X, like so-and-so did, then T will likely do Y. Like... i dont know if it's helping me to be here... maybe it's allowing me enough release that i am not really that inclined to explore the relationship in session. Maybe this is a bad place for me?

i don't know. It makes me sad. i care about a lot of people here.

i'm going to run an experiment. i have stuff i have to do, like yesterday... and i need to test out how i am affected... so, i'm not going to be here for a little while. Or i am going to try not to be here. i will check my PM's.

so, ok.. it's kinda good bye for now...

[chaotic13]

I've had these same thoughts. PC is definitely distracting me from getting other stuff done. However, I do see benefits to my choosing to dialog about issues. First, since I am so lost when it comes to communicating my feelings and inter thoughts its been helpful to test the water here in preparation for therapy. I'm a scripter too, but therapy never goes as planned. I just may be catching on along a little faster because of exploring stuff on PC. Second, often when I go to therapy I have a lot of overflow as a result of a session. It's an outlet for that overflow. Third, since I don't talk to people in RL much about sensitive issues because I often think that I am weird, unique, or a freak. Here I often see that what I experience is not so unique. The I have less anxiety about feeling it. Fourth, a few times I've interpreted something that has happened in RL or therapy negatively. Then after posting about it, I get some other perspectives which help me. For example you and Perna have been good at calling me on my assumption at various times. I think this helps me remain more open minded. A fifth reason I think PC may be helpful is that when I am feeling down and like my core value is empty, I can offer compassion to others and it makes me feel a little better. Practicing giving compassion, empathy, and support to others is good for me. I'm also getting better at doing it in RL too.

Maybe if you feel like you are addicted (me too sometimes) you can limit when and how long you access it. Like once in the morning and once at night. Cold turkey may not be the best choice.

[nothemama8]

maybe you need to place yourself on a limited schedule for PC, get other things done first then come here, sort of like a reward
Angie

[ECHOES]

yes I"ve had similar thoughts. Mostly I just want to do my therapy IN therapy, so I don't post much about it anymore but sometimes I like to talk about it. I've often rceived the support here to find the courage to say things in therapy that I wanted to say.

I've also spent way too much time here and another site. Sometimes I'm not happy that I do that and I might then think about why it is i'm doing it. Avoiding? Getting a need or three met? Exploring? I might be just enjoying--hard to allow that so I judge it as good or bad.

I do feel real connections here. It's like going to your favorite restaurant or coffee place and seeing a familiar face to say hello, exchange a few words, catch up, feel connected to the world.

I guess we have to do what feels good to us and individuals, and I think it's a good thing from time to time to look at where we spend our time and energy.

..edited to add:
I enjoy also seeing how people here support one another and I don't have to be a part of the thread or postst to get a good feeling from it. That helps me learn more about being supportive too.

[sunrise]

Hi JelloFluff, I think it's a good question and one we each have to answer for ourselves. What do we get out of being here? Do we spend too much time?

For me, when I came here in January 2007, I was in the first few months of doing therapy with a new T, and I felt scarily obsessed with him and therapy. I had never felt this way with my previous counselor. I felt like I must be highly aberrant and even deviant to be feeling this way. I was having issues of attachment, trust, obsession, attraction, etc. I thought I was nuts and maybe should stop therapy, that it wasn't healthy. I came here to PC and found that many people have very close relationships with their T's and in fact, such close relationships are therapeutic. And it is the therapeutic relationship itself that is at the heart of therapy. I had never known any of those things. Being here really helped me to learn that, and normalize my experience. My relationship with T soon calmed down and I moved out of the obsession phase into a really comfortable place of healthy attachment. I'm still there. I think PC helped me, at least a little, get there.

As for spending too much time here, I probably do, but I tend to spend a lot of time on the Internet. It is my hobby and I am part of a number of online communities. I have decreased my time spent in some others to accommodate more time spent here. It ebbs and flows. Sometimes if I feel I am posting too much here, I try to limit myself to a certain number of posts a day (say, under 5). And I don't start threads about myself for any little thing, just once in a while. So I try to keep my presence here under control. I do find the people here interesting and less superficial than some online places, so I like it here and have made friends.

Maybe you can just try to limit time as others have suggested?

I would be sad if you left.

[RACEKA]

I also have thought about how PC affects my therapy. I feel I have inside information. This is the first time I've been in therapy and PC has taught me a lot about therapy and what I mean by that is the feelings I'm going through is supposed to happen. I never dreamed I'd have this attachment with my therapist. I still haven't discussed it with him yet, but someday I will. My T tells me I'm not alone. Here at PC I know I'm not alone. This is the only place I can actually be with people that understand what I am feeling and what I'm going through. In that regards PC has really helped me. I don't do a lot of posting. That is only because I tend to keep to myself. I isolate. This is my communication that keeps me sane. I do post if I can help someone or I need help. I just love that there are always people to help. I've gotten through a lot of situations with the help of PC. I read a lot of posts. I cry & laugh at them. I really feel I know people here. Sometimes I don't get things done either becasue of PC, but I am working on my mental health.

If I would add up my pros & cons, PC has helped me way more than hurt me.

[krazibean]

just wondering...has anyone told their T's about PC? Like what others have said and how much being at PC helps/hurts you? Do you think our T's know about this place and come read it and are able to identify their clients because of the personal stories we tell about ourselves and them? I've thought about it...my T reading all my posts i write about her........ I was just wondering if your T's know about it and you talk about it regularly

[ECHOES]

I've told my T that I come here and another site.

I've shared some funny things from here with her. (Like when Perna said, in response to some of us not liking seeing our T's kid clients, that there is really one kid that the T's pass around, take turns with, to make us jealous. ha!!). I shared that because I had read some Anna Freud and she was talking about the mother/child relationship and how a new sibling disrupts the child's utopia. So I had laughed that my jealously of T's little boy client was me having sibling rivalry.

She knows I'm very attached to someone on the other site, who was very much like a T with me at one point, and to whom I'm still close.

She said she doesn't come here or go there. I think she would not have much free time for something like reading posts on sites. She said it sounds supportive and fun and that she didn't know there were communities like this on the net.

99.9% of what I say here I would say to her too. It might take someone to say to me "Tell her!" though!

[RACEKA]

I've told my T about the site. I've never told him the name of it and I wouldn't unless he asked. He's not real comfortable with it. He's not sure of it being safe. He worries about predators. I don't bring it up anymore. He has already canned me from reading mental health books for the next 2 years!

Jello

God luck, I'm trying to give up smoking but dont think I could give up PC!!!!!!!!!!!

I worry about the amount of time I spend on here too.....it's crept up again......my family do get a bit fed up with me....

I dont want to think about it right now....

Jin xxx

[Kiya]

My former T was distressed that i was here, other sites, and reading mental health books, doing such workbooks, and reading When Rabbit Howls. But my current T (as well as one a few back) think it is great that I learn as much as I can and see where I am in things. I can see how others cope, learn to support others, and find language for myself when that has always been difficult.

I do admit that i spend waaaaaaaaaaay too much time on here and things don't get done. I need to be a better guardian of my time and set boundaries (a needed learned skill for most people with painful pasts or mental health issues). That siad, i guess i should get off the net and get things done.

I did find one point at my job where something happened and I was so antsy about getting home to get on the net and post about it here. Then caught myself thinking "Am i in this too far?" But it is soooo very helpful to have a support network. I really don't have on IRL.

kiya

Ok, so i spent the whole day doing other stuff, or trying to... i did answer some Pm's and i did keep having to remind myself not to just keep reloading PC. Ugh.. i HATED today. i LIKE PC..

let me explain something... i just explained it to Soli... in a few months i will have to make a lot of different decisions and i will have to be completely, soley in charge of every minute of every day... unless i go get a regular type of job. i mean, i work, but i have to regulate that too... at home... where my access to PC is. i need to be able to function. Today was a test, one i plan to keep running off and on, trying to figure out how PC affects me and what i can do about it.

can i spend an hour here or there? i don't know. i have become totally addicted to PC in particular although i have other types of sites i like too. Am i able to learn to limit like i've had to do with foods? Or am i more like an alcoholic who can't have just an occasional drink? i just don't know.

Is it an obssession that has kept me away from other more destructive distracions? Maybe. Is it a healthy way to explore interaction socially? DOn't know, but i am guessing not so much... because it has allowed me to feed into a very difficult aspect of depression... i have a strong tendency to isolate.

one year... a whole year... i didn't leave my house much. Didn't answer the phone either. i had one friend and she lived next door. It was a special type of hell trying to re-expand a world that has collapsed in that far.

i don't have many friends here yet and i have cut myself off from the few i have. i've only left my house a few times in nearly a week. SO not good. My T says i'm depressed (brilliant man that he is).. and i know that means i have to be watchful of what i am doing.

so, NO, i am not leaving.. not unless i find out that i simply have to give up internet communities altogether. i just have to try to give myself some space... take ore forced time away each day... and so on... until i figure this out.

as for therapy... the support i've received is wonderful.. so many brave and insightful souls. SOme stuff has helped... somebody said PC normalized their experience.. very true. One of the things i like about schema, which is what my T does, is that it is openly encouraged to read and learn. So i know it's ok in general to do so... i just don't know it's ok for *me.* i am not IN love with my T, nor do i see him as a parent... but i have strong feelings. Therapy brings up a lot of stuff, unresolved childhood conflicts, etc etc etc... it is almost impossible to completely resist the power to manipulate that information i get here gives me. If a part of me felt neglected then you'd better believe i'll use whatever i can to get T's attention and keep it! That's not a deliberate thing exactly, but it is a sobering recognition.

so there it is... NOT leaving unless i cannot find a way to deal with this in a reasonable way.

i love you all too much for that, and i have learned soooooo much.

[Kiya]

it is good to know one's limits - and kudos to you for doing what you need to do. ((((((((((sol))))))))))

I guess I think about how in order to train as a psychoanalyst you need to have successfully completed a course of psychoanalysis. That means... that while psychoanalysts are training they are learning about therapy (and different ways therapy might go, different techniques, different defenses etc) at the same time as they are in therapy themselves. That is meant to be... A GOOD thing. Studying therapy while doing therapy is meant to help provide insights etc. Of course, what one learns can be helpful (when it aids the understanding) or harmful (when it is used as a defense). But... I don't worry at all about learning about therapy and different techniques etc while I'm in therapy.

And I guess one day... I won't be in therapy anymore. Instead... I'll have managed to internalize those techniques enough such that I can help myself and / or I'll have found some friends who can give me a hand with seeing things from a slightly different pov... Perhaps... All the world can be theraputic, really.

those are very good points alex... i don't know... i have learned valuable things for sure. i guess you're right on this point about learning. It is just so tempting to try to get the things i want/need from scenarios here than to do it in a healthier way... easier right? but not why i am there. Damn. i hate logic.

ok, today is saturday, but not a day off for me. i have get the stuff done that i hid from all week. BLECH. i don't have as much time constraint over the day because of the lack of business hours.

so my plan: i can be here off and on today and tomorrow, up to a limit of a couple of hours. Then during the week it has to be night times, AFTER i accomplish some of my daily tasks. If this doesn't work then i'll restrict it even more.

[Perna]

MzJello, maybe you can write up a formal "experiment" to check out how PC affects you and your life? I have found that if I come on PC first thing, I have more trouble getting off than if I do something else and then come on PC. If I "reward" myself with being online and alternate work, online, work, online; that often works well too.

But if you have a plan on how to go about checking out PC then you'd pay attention to the plan and not resent it at the same time? You'd be writing (somewhere else :-) about how you felt wanting to be on PC when you were doing X but how you enjoyed doing Y and didn't miss PC and notes of that sort without having to be on PC. You could use PC as a "hub" in other words and not "know" that you weren't actually on PC because it would be in your thoughts and your other work would revolve around your experiment/experience.

[Kelly3]

Well, i know this is possibly the wrong attitude to take.. but i couldn't care less about anything else.. i care about people here on PC, therefore it takes priority.. all i care about in reality is family. and i sit in the same room as them whilst here on PC.. so, yes i'm addicted to PC, and yes i spend too much time on here, but at least it takes my mind off everything.

hmmph. i don't care anymore.

So, although JelloFluff is right.. i'm sticking with PC - it's a good get-away place.. sometimes. lol. xx

kelly. xx

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
MzJelloFluff said:
It is just so tempting to try to get the things i want/need from scenarios here than to do it in a healthier way... easier right? but not why i am there. Damn. i hate logic.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Fluff, I'm not convinced the PC is not a healthy way to fulfill some wants/needs. Yes, I spend too much time here at times and it can be addicting. But it doesn't prevent me from interacting with people in RL. Now if you are declining dinner invitations or other social activities in order to sit at your computer on PC, then I think concern is warranted.

Some of your concern seems to be around time management, since you seem to have a flexible schedule. There is always going to be challenges when we have a choice between doing preferred and non-preferred tasks. I can also spend too much time watching TV, sunning on the deck, bar hoping, chatting with co-workers, etc. . There is a plethora of other distractions that keep me from getting work done. At least PC may have some positive benefits.

I think the suggestions made both by you and others are good options to try. Maybe a prioritized ToDo list is all you need to get you back on track with work. Maybe making a commitment to yourself to do a little something everyday to improve your sense of isolation in RL.

[tulips30]

It's interesting that each of us has considred these same things. I too, have wondered if spending too much time here could be a problem for me. I have an "addictive" personality. I will even eat something I like & then I eat it every day until I can't look at it another day.

I kind of "bumped" into this site and knew from the get-go it could be a problem for me. I was in a similar situation to Jellofluff's last year. I basically stayed in my house/room for monts and only ventured out when necessary. Obviously, I fight depression. I enjoy & learn from each of you. I want to come here (this safe, warm place) all the time. But, knowing how easily I get into trouble................

Also, I have never started a post. I think of many things, but always feel they aren't important enough to bother other's with. Many times, I think of something to add, but again, I feel my comments aren't valuable enough. I think it is these negative feelings about my value that keeps me from staying here too long. Cause I read, think and then move on. If I started posting more, I would probably be in trouble.

I have wondered if what I learn here seeps into my therapy. I don't think it has except to help me with the questions that are always on my mind. Is this normal? Do other people feel this way? etc

[Flowerb]

I think it is interesting that you think "an inside track" might be harmful. It makes me wonder about therapists who have therapy - do you think they can't be helped because they know too much?

I guess I think that there is no magic to therapy that you can discover and short circuit by knowing about it. The point of therapy is to help you with your life - so anything that helps you - like PC - should be allowed, shouldn't it? I do see that you can take some of the intensity out of your feelings when you air things here first...but everything you do with your T is YOUR therapy! So if you find you are trying out things with him, than that is what you need to be doing - for perhaps reasons yet unknown. If you are looking for a specific response, manipulating, to use your word, then perhaps you either need to be allowed to do this or you need him to call you on your behavior eventually. What is it about other folk's T's that intrigue you? Or that you think you might not be getting? What is it about certain exchanges or topics that you want to avoid - or bring up? What PC brings up for you is important - so bring it up during your sessions.

No matter what, you are the one spending the time and money on your sessions. So force yourself to be honest, even about this worry, and see where the conversation takes you. Effective therapy is as much the clients responsibility as the therapists -- you must put your thoughts on the table. I don't believe knowing theraputic tricks, techniques, philosophies, etc. help you avoid your own stuff when you are honest. In fact, you might just get to it faster.

Therapy isn't magic - it is damn hard work. No short cuts through the pain, but a guide if you allow it.

I say, take what you wrote to your next session. It seems important.

yes.. i am turning down oportunities to go out, not *because* of PC, but then that is where i go instead. Social is hard for me.. didn't used to be so bad. Making new friends over and overhas takena toll.

tulips, that makes me a little sad... i think you are as valuable as anyone else and when we've talked i've really enjoyed it... i got a lot from it. Now, i don't want you to fall into bad patterns either... but i am always happy to see you.

flower.. it isn't that i feel i would know too much about therapy itself per se... it's having a whole buffet of therapy scenarios to choose from. i am not a manipulative person by nature.... but i do know that in therapy some feelings have been very strong... unmet needs from my younger days.. it's overwhelming. i found myself thikning of ways to get T to do or say this or that because i wanted it... like a kid. i haven't acted on those.. i have tried to talk to him about what the need was, etc BUT when you have that array of choices of what people have said and done which got this rxn or that... i dont know that those strong feelings wouldn't push me.... does that makes sense? i dont think that i would ever deliberately choose to manipulate him... but the temptation is there for sure.

of course... my T did laugh once when i left him a message. asked him to not just say what i wanted to hear, and he chuckled in his message back to me said "you already know i wont just say what you want me to say."

[Flowerb]

I think that is what I was driving at - give your therapist enough credit to deal with whatever comes up. Perhaps you are hiding your fear of getting your needs recognized and even met - with your fear of being manipulative. What would it mean if you could manipulate things within your own therapy?

I guess I believe that what is important is how a person uses all the information that comes to him or her, no matter how and no matter about which subject. Some of us are in therapy because we use information in a way that works against what might be good for us.

I know you know all this, since I lurk a lot and read your posts. I'd also like to say that I'm impressed with how you continue to struggle against things. It will get better eventually, you just have to have faith.

[chaotic13]

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MzJelloFluff said:
Social is hard for me.. didn't used to be so bad. Making new friends over and over has taken a toll.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Casual interactions aren't so hard for me, but making real friends is a different story.

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i don't think that i would ever deliberately choose to manipulate him... but the temptation is there for sure.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

You fear that you will manipulate your therapy/therapist. I fear that I will be manipulated.

PC is a good place to share similarities and differences.

[Soidhonia]

Hello (((MZ))). It is very hard to stop avoidance tactives, and using PC as a way to avoid, is not the answer, but there is chat and you can get a partner here to help you limit the time you are on PC. Setting a timer for 10 minutes helps you to retrain your focus on the jobs and situations you need to address, so you can limit your time on PC for 10 minute intervals, and then get to work, therapy or whatever needs to be done. A timer helps you to feel that you have been on PC, but is a reminder that you have other things to do as well, and moves that process along more quickly than relying on yourself to abstain from PC, on your own merit. Making a list to let yourself see what needs to be done is helpful as well, so you dont have to get overwhelmed with everything piling up on you at one time. Getting help from a friend or family member until things are more in control may be helpful as well, and getting help from your therapist on making lists that are acceptable and achievable is important to help you gain more control in a more stable and acceptable manner. Take care (((MZ))). Soidhonia