[Amandae8787]

I had therapy yesterday. I’ve seen my T for 1,5 years and it has been an emotional rollercoaster. I don’t think any of us was prepared for it. She wasn’t prepared to see someone like me and I was not aware of how much my past, my childhood, still affected me.

I know I have maternal transference for her. I wish my mom was like her. I’m jealous of her kids. She knows how I feel, how it sometimes hurts so much inside me knowing that I won’t be able to fully heal the wound inside me. I feel empty. Like something’s missing inside me.

Yesterday we discussed something that I’ve been thinking about. Sometimes I email her inbetween sessions. She sometimes reply to my emails with ”I’m here for you”. I always find it hard to understand what she mean by that. Does she mean like she thinks about me and that I’m with her in that way? Or does she mean, you can email me and I will answer? I don’t know. Yesterday I asked. It didn’t go as I hoped.

She told me that she cares for me very much, that she really want to help me and that she’s been trying hard to do so. That I will always be in her heart. We both know that I will be seeing a new T soon since I’ve recently been diagnosed with bpd and she’s not equiped to work with me, she doesn’t have the knowledge. But after that she said something that hurt me so much. She said that she sometimes has to protect herself and her family. That sometimes when she’s going to watch a movie with her kids, she sees an email from me and find it hard not to read it. I haven’t MADE her read anything. I never send her anything during her holiday. I know that she has a life, I just don’t like to be reminded of it…

When she said that, about protecting herself and her family, about when she’s doing something with her kids, I felt a sharp pain inside my chest. It hurt so much. We spoke on the phone and didn’t have time to talk much after that. I shut down and didn’t know what to say. I couldn’t say anything. I feel so much shame for being to much for her. That she has to PROTECT her family. Of course I understand that she’s not available 24/7 and she also said ”if you want to email me, you should, and I will tell you if it is a problem for me”. But you just did?

I don’t know what to say to her when I see her next time. I can’t act like nothing’s wrong. But I can’t really tell her, or I don’t know if I can. I’m too embarrassed. This is coming from a very young part of me, not the adult me… and the little young part of me is hurting sooo much. I can’t understand that she would say that to me knowing what she knows about my childhood wound, but I don’t know if I’m overreacting. Sometimes I do. I will NOT email her anyway, not ever again.

Any thoughts?

[Amandae8787]

I email her perhaps twice a month and I know that she won’t give me long replies. I normally email something I’ve realised since we spoke last time or some thoughts about last session. Not like ”I’m in so much pain please help me”. Nothing like that.

[Waterbear]

I can totally understand bwhy that would hurt, but I wonder whether it was just poor choice of words. To be fair if you only email twice a month and she has said you could, I'm surprised she said anything at all! I mean, I think I get what she is trying to say, but it seems to me, from what you have said, a bit unnecessary. I could understand more if you emailed a few times a week, and text etc, but yeah, I would be a bit confused and very hurt too, but it could be really good material, especially as you recognise it is coming from a very young place.

[LonesomeTonight]

Hugs if wanted. So, this is a case of your T failing to manage her own boundaries, which she is responsible for. If she's going to sit down to watch a movie, then it's her choice to look at her email first. You have no way of knowing, when you send an email, what she's going to be doing. So it's not your fault for sending the email. She should not have told you this, as it implies that it is. It's up to her to decide "OK, I'm going to check email before doing this," and then if she's distracted, that is her choice.

I've run into major conflicts with T's both past and current regarding email (and other outside contact), so this is a particular sore spot for me. With ex-T, I used to send long emails (and if she replied at all, she'd just say a sentence or two and that we'd talk in session). She never complained about them until I mentioned her not responding to one that I thought was more urgent, and she said something, "I do have an outside life, and you're not my only client." Which really hurt me (I had some maternal transference for her, mostly negative).

With my current T, we had a rupture a couple years ago where I emailed him in distress on a Friday night. He generally only replies to emails in the morning, so I wasn't even expecting a reply that night. He responded with something that further upset me, I replied and said that, and he then responded to me with something that upset me even further. What made it all worse is that in the next session, he said he'd felt "trapped" into replying to me that night. It was partly that I was in a bad place, and I think he was concerned for my safety, but he could have also chosen a path other then sending me multiple emails (a brief phone call to evaluate my status, telling me I needed to go to the ER if needed, saying he couldn't help me that evening and to call a crisis line instead, etc.). But he chose not to (we've since worked all that out, but it was very painful at the time).

That's probably more info than you wanted or needed, but I'm trying to say that I get it. The stuff about her kids, I can see how it would make it that much worse. Especially using the word "protect," as though you're some sort of threat. I would talk to her about this. Tell her how you reacted to what she said. You can include that it's coming from a young part of you, mention the childhood wound, the maternal transference. It may be difficult, but I think it's better to tell her and talk it through.

I think maybe it's good that you're changing T's, even though I imagine it will be difficult.

[coolibrarian]

Coincidentally, I just finished my session with T, and one of the things we talked about was me sending her email, which I have done many times over the years. But this felt different, one because I've been seeing her for many, many years, we are approaching termination (sometime in 2023), she'll be away for a week later this month, and yesterday I was diagnosed with pneumonia. She didn't say I could or couldn't send her an email. She wants us both to "sit with it," and talk about it next time. She suggested I write about it (since I am a writer/poet).

[Amandae8787]

Originally Posted by Waterbear

I can totally understand bwhy that would hurt, but I wonder whether it was just poor choice of words. To be fair if you only email twice a month and she has said you could, I'm surprised she said anything at all! I mean, I think I get what she is trying to say, but it seems to me, from what you have said, a bit unnecessary. I could understand more if you emailed a few times a week, and text etc, but yeah, I would be a bit confused and very hurt too, but it could be really good material, especially as you recognise it is coming from a very young place.

I guess I sort of pushed her for an answer. I really didn’t understand what she meant when she said all that stuff about me being in her heart. I didn’t understand what it really meant. Because… sometimes she answers my emails like on a Sunday. I never expected her to. And a couple of weeks ago, I was in a very bad place. I saw her on a Wednesday and she told me to email her on Thursday, and on Friday I had a app with a doctor. She was worried about me I guess and wanted me to email to make sure I was ok. What would she have done if I hadn’t? I did anyway.

I guess she was trying to tell me that she won’t be able to answer all the time. But it made me feel quilty. Like I messed up.

[Waterbear]

I hear you, but I still don't really see why she would say that in response to a question about what being here for you meant though. Like I said, it seems like a really poor choice of words to me. I would say talk about it. Most of my upsets with Ex T were sorted out by talking. Mainly I had misconstrued what she was saying. It's VERY easy to twist words negatively, and you aren't even doing it, it just happens, we can't help it.

Not sure if you read my post about my Old T and her email, but take that for example. I could have sworn it was shutting me out, walking away from me, her angry and upset with me. I asked, and we cleared it all up, and then when I read it back today, I didn't see any of the things I saw the first time I read it!!

Not sure if that helps or not, but I hope so. It's a blooming hard road healing from childhood wounds and I really feel your pain. You aren't too much. You are never too much. If other people can't meet your needs then they aren't enough... for you!

This is so typical of the kind of faux-precious nonsense they say. Obviously they need personal time, we know that, we are not idiots. You know what I do when I want personal time? I don't check my emails. It's no different for therapists. The pretentiousness they perpetuate about the importance of their boundaries (as if they are any different to any other profession) infuriates me.

My therapist has never talked about protecting her family or time, but she has told me that she sometimes dreads my emails or indeed dreads sessions with me. It was acutely painfully at the time, but now I swing into an attitude of "whatever, I dread contact with you sometimes so we are a match made in mutually dreadful heaven".

[Amandae8787]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Hugs if wanted. So, this is a case of your T failing to manage her own boundaries, which she is responsible for. If she's going to sit down to watch a movie, then it's her choice to look at her email first. You have no way of knowing, when you send an email, what she's going to be doing. So it's not your fault for sending the email. She should not have told you this, as it implies that it is. It's up to her to decide "OK, I'm going to check email before doing this," and then if she's distracted, that is her choice.

I've run into major conflicts with T's both past and current regarding email (and other outside contact), so this is a particular sore spot for me. With ex-T, I used to send long emails (and if she replied at all, she'd just say a sentence or two and that we'd talk in session). She never complained about them until I mentioned her not responding to one that I thought was more urgent, and she said something, "I do have an outside life, and you're not my only client." Which really hurt me (I had some maternal transference for her, mostly negative).

With my current T, we had a rupture a couple years ago where I emailed him in distress on a Friday night. He generally only replies to emails in the morning, so I wasn't even expecting a reply that night. He responded with something that further upset me, I replied and said that, and he then responded to me with something that upset me even further. What made it all worse is that in the next session, he said he'd felt "trapped" into replying to me that night. It was partly that I was in a bad place, and I think he was concerned for my safety, but he could have also chosen a path other then sending me multiple emails (a brief phone call to evaluate my status, telling me I needed to go to the ER if needed, saying he couldn't help me that evening and to call a crisis line instead, etc.). But he chose not to (we've since worked all that out, but it was very painful at the time).

That's probably more info than you wanted or needed, but I'm trying to say that I get it. The stuff about her kids, I can see how it would make it that much worse. Especially using the word "protect," as though you're some sort of threat. I would talk to her about this. Tell her how you reacted to what she said. You can include that it's coming from a young part of you, mention the childhood wound, the maternal transference. It may be difficult, but I think it's better to tell her and talk it through.

I think maybe it's good that you're changing T's, even though I imagine it will be difficult.

Thank you! I’m really trying not to read too much into what she said. But I think I’m going to have to say something about it when I see her next time. She has helped me understand so much about myself. I hate that I have to change T’s… but she normally don’t work with people with my kind of issues. If she was more experienced, it might have made things easier for me. She normally only see people for like 15 sessions. So it’s completely different from what I need.

[Oliviab]

I can understand why this hurt. I would feel that, too. But I read it a little bit differently. I read it not that she has to protect her family from YOU, but that she has to protect them from her own desire to always be there for you or her tendency to have blurred boundaries between home and work. I'm not saying she should have shared that with you, but it sounds like some sort of internal thing that she has to manage, so that everyone in her life gets enough (or as much as she can reasonably give) from her. Conversely, she also has to have boundaries around her family, so that her family life doesn't spill over too much into her work with clients.

[susannahsays]

I don't think you're being irrational. I read her statement as oliviab did. However, I think it was a completely unnecessary disclosure on her part that was extraordinarily clumsy in its wording.

[Favorite Jeans]

I’m so sorry. I’ve had similar things happen with therapists and it can feel just devastating. The thing about good boundaries is that you state them, you don’t talk about the reasons for them.

So for example she could say: I can’t always answer my emails very promptly (not that you expected her to) and then if necessary you could discuss how you might deal with that.

The why of it, that she needs to protect her family time or polish her lacrosse trophies or whatever is irrelevant. (I can’t believe she said that she needs to protect HERSELF and her family from you or that she dreads your emails. That’s awful. Even though I agree it was clumsy wording and not meant to hurt you.)

This is about her. She cares a lot about you but hasn’t figured out how not to overpromise emotionally. She’s overpromising bc you truly are in her heart. But she needs to sort that out on her own. That’s her effing job. She cannot be blaming you for her feelings.

[Amandae8787]

Thank you all for your replies. It feels a little bit better now that I know I’m not alone with these kind of feelings. The thing that hurts the most is the image of her with her kids. Everything that I will never have. That I never had. And that she feels that she has to protect them from me. That I’m some kind of intruder in their perfect life.

She should have known how much this would hurt me. She knows that I hate it when she goes on vacation because it reminds me of the fact that she has a family and that she needs time off from dealing with me… she knows that I struggle with knowing if she is there, if I can trust her to be the same everytime I see her. She knows how my deepest wound is that my mom never made me feel loved.

And knowing all this, she still said what she did.

When I read Oliviab’s post it made me feel a bit better, like perhaps I’m not the intrudor. I know that sometimes she wishes that she could do more for me. Maybe she just spoke without thinking. I will talk to her next time I see her and until then try to remind myself of all the things she has done to prove to me that she really does care about me.

[Lonelyinmyheart]

I struggle with exactly the same feelings. And if my T had said what yours did, I'd be devastated and feel an intruder too. Although I totally agree with what Oliva said that it's most likely your T wanting to be there for you and struggling to maintain personal boundaries. I had a situation recently where I panicked because I thought I'd intruded on my T and her life but my T made clear she'd reply when she could and if she wasn't able to say much in her reply due to lack of time, we'd always talk about it. That helps me to see that she can manage her boundaries but I can contact her when I need to. It sounds like you can do the same with your T, it's just that your T is still working on managing her boundaries and unfortunately put that struggle onto you, but you're not an intruder in her life even though I understand how much it feels like that.

[nottrustin]

You should definitely bring it up at your next appointment.

A couple of weeks ago, my therapist brought up the same thing. For her, it was about how she handles the texts. Sometimes she reads the texts and is left holding my "stuff" and it appears I often tell her and let it go. She made sure to tell me it was about her and she wasn't saying I couldn’t ever text her but it should be reserved for emergency situations and scheduling. Nor did she want me to think I had to take care of her. I instantly shut down so really did not speak.

I was shut doen the next 3 appointments (I currently see her twice a week)I was hurt. I then brought it up again. First we explored how ut made me feel like she was pusing me away and saying I was too needy and how this goes back to my core issue of abandonment.
We discussed the benefits of me texting her. How I feel after texting her, what are some other options (writing it down and texting her right before my session, journaling etc.). She talked about how she occasionally reads the text and emotionally holds onto it because she can't process it without me. It was not discussed but I think it happens mostly when my message has been about what something that happened in an appointment and her think I was blaming her for how something was handled.

In the end we agreed that I can text her but instead of putting what I needed from her at the end of the text, I will put it at the beginning. If I am venting because I am overwhelmed, I will say so. If it is a topic that we need to discuss at the next appointment I will say so and she will refrain from reading until just before the next session. If I need a response, likely a call, she will read it and respond. She knows how texting is an important part of my therapy and it always has been with both her and my long term therapist. This plan allows for both that and for her to maintain some boundaries.

She knew it would be a difficult conversation but we both agreed it was important. I reminded her that in the beginning she told me she would telle if texting became an issue.

[Amandae8787]

I just feel so stupid. I feel like I should be able to see this more rational. Like, I know she has kids. I know she’s not my mom. I know that I’m one of her clients, sure, she might care about me but not the way I care about her. She can’t.

But then there’s the fact that she has told me ”you can always email me, but I might not answer right away”. So it never really crossed my mind that my email on a Sunday morning would cause her to be distracted from her family. It just didn’t. I thought that she would read it if she had the time, and answer when she could. Only once have I been upset with her about emails, and that was when she didn’t answer for three working days.

So one part of me feels like ”Why am I upset, she’s just my T” and the other is like ”how could she say this to me?!”

[LonesomeTonight]

Hugs, please try not to beat yourself up over this. It can be really difficult to deal with.

It also reminds me of another thing that happened with my current T, sometime in the first 6 months of seeing him. He allows texting for scheduling, but wants email for everything else (he's relaxed a bit on that lately). Once, I texted him, maybe around 8 pm, asking if he had an extra session available in the next day or two. I felt I should explain, so I said my uncle had just passed away (plus some other stuff was going on).

He gave me the extra session and told me when he saw me that my text had been "intrusive" because I explained why I wanted the extra session. Rather than just asking for it. So he had to put more thought into his reply vs. just saying "I have an opening at 2 tomorrow." It confused me, because I thought it was weirder to request an extra session without explanation, like, might he have thought I wasn't safe? Or that I was upset with him about something? I also found his use of the word "intrusive" to be a bit triggering for some reason, like I felt lots of shame around it. He clarified that it wasn't a big deal, which helped.

He doesn't find email to be "intrusive" because he chooses when to look at that. Whereas he uses the same phone for work and personal, so if I text him, he'd see it if he had his phone on him.

I'm sharing to say how therapists can have what seems to be odd boundaries regarding texts and emails. And can also choose words poorly--like "protective" with your T--to explain the effect. I still think you should try talking about it with her--sharing the conflicting sides of how you're thinking about it might help.

[Waterbear]

I think rational thinking can go straight out of the window when you are dealing with inner child work, which it sounds like you are, even if you aren't, if that makes sense. These old wounds and neural pathways are so deeply rooted that it can take a lot to learn to change/bypass them. Honestly, don't beat yourself up. We have all been there, sometimes MANY times!! It's good to talk hear about it though because people who aren't in the same space as you might be able to help, in some way. I hope when you talk about it with her it is productive, andost importantly that it is healing for you. Lots of ruptures and repairs are needed I think, they were for me at least.

[Etcetera1]

I'm really sorry Amandae8787. I mean things like is why I don't do deep therapy with attachment to the therapist in an unreal, manufactured "relationship". Where countertransference drama will keep f***king up my most sensitive emotions and feelings. I mean if I'm supposed to process early childhood trauma in this way then I'd rather not do it. This to me is just self-torture.

Oliviab's post was good, but that's precisely what I mean by not bothering to do this work in therapy. I'm not supposed to have to reciprocate the therapist's empathy but they expect me to do it anyway. And that's a lot of *work* when being so open and close to someone. So I might as well go out do the work in real relationships instead and give up on the perfect relationship and just accept what life has to offer.

The mental health worker could help with giving skills to recognise good relationships and then no need for so many unreal ruptures taking me unnecessarily deep in pain all the time, but can learn in the actually good and real relationships in life. With some pain, sure but not so many unreal instances of it.

Just my view really but I truly am not convinced that therapists can do this kind of work in an efficient way without so many of these unnecessary ruptures if the therapy "relationship" remains a fake, artificially managed one from their end. I just do not think that applied psychology is quite there in general.

[Amandae8787]

I saw her yesterday. It was hard. I couldn’t tell her everything but I told her that I didn’t want to intrude on her life. She said that she never meant that I did. She said that she just wanted me to understand that if I didn’t quickly get an email back from her, I shouldn’t blame myself. That it could be because of something totally unrelated to me. I don’t know, it’s all blurry, I was crying the whole time and don’t even remember everything.

I might try to talk to her again next time, I don’t know. I’m just very tired right now. I feel like she’ll probably never understand how I feel about her. And perhaps she doesn’t have to.