Couch 241: Twin primes!

Agreed. And I would add that he's been somewhat unethical in the sense that he knows (and has told her) that he doesn't work this way, yet he also won't refer her out. It is his duty to refer out if he's not able to help with her core issues- especially since he must be aware that her attachment to him is strong and could make it difficult for her to leave on her own.

I don't agree that this is on the therapist - perhaps giving his way of working a shot could be something to try.

Attachment is not the end all and be all. Is the goal to do something different in one's own life or is the goal to just sit and moan about one's parents or others and how they did one wrong and get petted for it? I mean either is okay if that is what one wants to do.
I found therapy useless in any sort of practical way other than when needing to vent about my person and the absurd medical machinations. I don't understand the attachment stuff at all or even why one would want it -so again context for my approach.

I'm guessing you don't have any significant attachment injuries from childhood. If you understood what that does to a person you wouldn't make such an insensitive comment.

Working on understanding and healing attachment in therapy can be a crucial first step in "doing something different in one's own life," particularly when it comes to relationship with others.

Of course, not everyone needs to work on such things. And that's great. But to say that those of us who do need to work on it are somehow weak and moaning, unwilling to make change, is outrageous and rather cruel in my opinion.

This is just another iteration of "stand up when i leave." Now its "im gonna say i love you every time i leave." Its very - whats the word? - acty-outy. He is not a Ken doll.

"Try and stop me" seems to be the implication here, not "help me i cant stop myself." Thats where the ethical line is drawn. He must not choose to join you in your folly. And of course he does not wish to abandon his patient.

Maybe i am reading it wrong.

What? I don't *want* to say "I love you" whenever I leave. I had used that as an example of what someone on here did, with their T saying "I know" in response, in the sense of, it's not necessary for him to say it back. He seems to have gotten hung up on that as something I want to do, and I've told him multiple times that it was merely an example of a client not needing an "I love you, too." That I don't want that (and I genuinely don't!)

You would be wrong on your assumption about me. I do think therapy encourages moaning and so on - it is okay with me if you disagree -it is even okay with me if you find it useful. I didn't but I don't insist that everyone agree with me or do it my way. I also think people do things one way until they are ready to do them another way - not necessarily consciously. In the end, I was just giving my take - I don't insist I am correct about it - all I have is one tiny slice of the situation - just like everyone else here.

No, but you have thought of ten different ways he could respond?

Maybe hes thinking, this subject doesnt just come up by itself. Maybe there is something more to it. If he feels you are in denial, he is not going to take you saying "no im not" at face value.

Do you want to win this argument with him (or me), or do you want to figure out what is behind it and then move on?

I want to figure out what's behind it and then move on. But I want him to work with me to figure out what's behind it, if at all possible, to process that with him. In fact, I was just now typing up notes for next session stating basically exactly that. And wanting to ask if he feels like he can process it with me or if I need to see someone else (for a bit or for good) to accomplish that.

Perhaps I misunderstood your tone. It sounded a bit shaming, judgmental and insensitive of others' pain, particularly for a support forum. I think it's wonderful that you are able to do your own work and stay psychologically healthy without the help of a therapist. I'm envious of that and working towards that goal.

In the meantime, I do come here to read about the diverse experiences of others in therapy. I appreciate your perspective, but I felt your tone was less than supportive.

not the first time and won't be the last time for that I am sure.

Fwiw LT, it is up to the T to hold both the boundaries and the ethics.

Any negative feelings they may have as a result of what their clients say in therapy should be kept for their own supervision and worked through there. If I'm remembering correctly, I think you said Dr T doesn't have a Supervisor as such, but attends peer support a few times a year - however, that is his choice and he shouldn't be making your therapy sessions about his feelings. It is part of his role to help you work through whatever you need to work through.

My T always says I will be processing it (whatever it is), in a different way. So it doesn't matter how many times we go over or back to something, it's just a different way of dealing with it. Dr T shouldn't be shutting you down, shaming or making you feel bad in any way.

I know what it's like to wish a T would think of you outside of your therapy time and maybe check in with you spontaneously after a particularly difficult session. But you have already acknowledged that he is unlikely to, because he doesn't work that way. Please don't torture yourself wishing he would give more than he is prepared to. The only person who will get hurt is you.

I hope you can find a way through these difficulties with him that will be satisfactory to you both. But if you can't, remember that you once had quite strong transference feelings for ex-MC, and for a long while couldn't imagine not working with him anymore. But when the end finally came, you got through it and moved on. You have come a long way since then and learnt a lot more about yourself.

Trust your gut feeling. You will know what is right for you.


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Maybe someone can explain to me the goal behind going to therapy for transference and attachment issues in LT's case. I came from a background of extreme trauma and neglect and would prefer to be left alone than attached to anyone so it is very confusing to my psyche.

From my observations, LT went to Dr. T to help her get over her attachment and feelings for ex-MC. Now the attachment continues and looks like it make repeat all over again. The two examples given seem to be an old teacher and ex-MC, now Dr. T. She meets him 3x a week which I can't say is appropriate or not for this situation. Wouldn't it be more productive to stop therapy altogether or maybe see a female instead? Yes, it may be hard at first just like stopping smoking but wouldn't it eliminate the source of the attachment pain?

Attachment aside, I do have to admit LT that I agree with less popular view that this does seem to be part of the pattern of pushing him until agrees to see something your way similar to the stone, standing, using the term transference, etc. To me, that would be the root cause to work on. Discovering the reasons behind your need for validation of your thoughts/wants on any particular issue and finding skills to help develop the ability to accept the other person's opinions and boundaries when it occurs. Finding ways to allow people to have their own agency without feeling the need to "script" the ending to suit your desired outcome and to accept differences in opinion without the need to keep pushing back until they agree to change. Or maybe this is just a pattern with therapists, in which case I revert back to my original question of wouldn't it be easier to stop therapy altogether?

Sorry to interrupt the Dr T programming, but I’m leaving for Rome tomorrow and just wanted to wish everyone good holidays in case I’m not back on till I return. (Wireless is promised but I’m dubious.)

Cringing at the thought of the guilt trips the animals will lay upon me on my return...

I hope your trip goes well.
If they are like mine, the animals will exact their revenge upon your return.

Enjoy Rome! It sounds like a fun adventure.

This is not how attachment woks. You don’t just get over attachment. It also likely wouldn’t matter if it’s a make of female therapist.

I hope you have a safe trip and a lovely time! You deserve it after the past year. And happy holidays!

(And I'm good with changing the channel on the Dr. T programming now...sorry for monopolizing.)

Have a good trip atat!

I hope you have a good trip, @@!

I usually appreciate Dr. T’s qualities of loyalty and reliability on your behalf. He often comes through for you.

In this case, after considering all the comments, I think an enactment is occurring. Maybe Dr T has been asked to give emotionally and could not in his past? I do relational therapy, so my therapist C considers his own contributions/ countertransference carefully. I am not sure if Dr. T has the training or temperament to work in this way.

I hold out hope bc this could be a growing edge for both of you. It also could be you’ve outgrown Dr. T or hit his limits. You might accept the limit in exchange for his constancy and care for you, or you might move on?

Or maybe he will surprise you?

I am trying to change my already-negative attitude about our upcoming overtime season. They just made a change in one of our 2 main computer programs that we use that means we must use it at 100% or less (zoom size or whatever). Problem is, the content is SO tiny at 100% I get terrible eyestrain trying to use it. I have an eyeball headache already today and I've worked only 2 hours. I'm trying to figure out how to reconfigure my desk so I can have one monitor closer to my eyes and keep the other one where it is as that distance is okay for the other programs that we have to use. The biggest issue with this other program, is that there's no scroll bar at the bottom so you can't just make it 125% which I usually do, and scroll over. I don't know what the answer is; moving the monitor closer may not help at all I don't know. I may have to seriously start looking for a new job. I hate to quit after 10 years but... I can't work with an eyeball headache every day. The other option would be work providing me with a monitor that is about 5 inches wider, but I do not see that happening. I need to have a talk with my boss...

One more thing. I used to post here often struggling with my therapist M. I was blown away by the insight and perspective of this group. I finally terminated with M.

I post less bc I get my needs met much more with C. There’s an overall sense of safety and security.

This will definitely not be popular, but we talked about Martin Buber and I/ thou relationships. My therapist will occasionally tell me he loves me ( Stutz), but it’s so clear between us it’s professional and seeking agape. There’s nothing romantic or inappropriate about it. It’s more about idealism or a quiet calm moment of humanity. There’s trust on both sides that it won’t be misconstrued.

This is where Dr. T has a different modality and training.

Yikes, Artie.

I'm a little lost as to how they can regulate the size you need to have text on your screen. I would say that's down to the user's discretion.

Can you speak to somebody about it? You can't work long days at risk of severe headaches.

Thanks. Yeah, I emailed my boss asking for a meeting. It's just the way the program functions - if I make it 125% now with the multitude of stuff they've added to it, I can't see the right 1/4th which has links I need to click on in order to do my job, but no way to scroll over to them. I'm trying today, to see how it works if I just constantly go back and forth from 100% to 125% to 100% and hopefully it doesn't add too much to my production time or bother my eyes even more. I'll figure something out. Our 2nd monitor that we use for this program is already 24 inches diagonal!! it's nuts how tiny the content is even with that size of monitor. also they have these computers so locked down that we can't adjust the overall size of the windows or whatever.

Have you tried computer glasses?