I think I'm worrying about my level of need for T.

I've been in therapy for about 6 months. I'm 38, and this is the first time I've been in therapy. We're dealing with a lot of really triggery things that I don't know if I can post here (not sure what the guidelines are on that) - but suffice to say, pretty big, bad, yucky, painful stuff. Since this is my first time in T, this is my first time dealing with this stuff, and my first time even telling someone that some of it happened.

I know that I have PTSD, in addition to just a lot of painful feelings and anxiety resulting from having just brought this stuff out into the open. The time between therapy appointments feels like FOREVER (and I go twice a week). I need him to help me process this stuff. It's impossible for me (at this point) to open it up in therapy and then just shut it down until the next time I'm in there. Actually, that's what I was afraid would happen if I ever went to T and talked about it - and it turns out, I was right. We're working on "containment", but right now, it's just hard. I homeschool my three boys and have to really keep it together outside of T - and I do, on the outside, but on the inside, I'm unraveling a lot of the time.

SO! I have what I feel like is a LOT of contact with T outside of session. For example, I had session on Monday, and Monday night we talked on the phone for 15 minutes. We talked on the phone for about 5 minutes this morning. I've e-mailed him 2 times, and he's responded to one (he only responds if I specifically ask him to). To me, that seems like a lot. I don't call very often (this week was unusual for that) but I do e-mail frequently - sometimes every day (without asking for a response, usually). He says that it's fine - I can e-mail/call as much as I need to. But I don't know. I worry about it at the same time that I feel like right now, I really need it.

Argh. I'm obviously in a place where I need support, because this turned into a lot more than just the simple question in the subject line

Blah.

Anyhow, how about other people? Do you have contact with T outside of session? And how do you feel about that?

I have almost daily contact with T outside of session, whether by email or phone call. I am no longer worried about being needy because obviously I am needy right now, and that's just where I'm at. T recognizes my need for this frequent connection outside of session and rather than try to minimize it, he encourages it by constantly saying, "You know how to get in touch with me-- office phone, cell phone, email..." I initiate most of the contact, but it is not unusual at all for him to call me on his own initiative just to see how I'm doing. We also use the outside contact as a way for him to understand what I am going through in the moment. It is a lot different for a T to be able to experience your in the moment feelings and thoughts, rather than just hearing it, retold in session.

BTW, I do try to give the man a break on Sundays, lol.

[lauren_helene]

I don't get any time in between unfortunately

But what you describe is what my T is afraid of with daily emails etc. I did get a phone session last week and loved it! I was out of town and it helped.

I think if your T is fine with it then go with it. I'm sure when you are ready, he will slowly taper it off.

Um. Ok, a different perspective to add.

You have only been seeing T for 6 months? This is your first T? And you are "working on difficult, painful, yukky stuff."

Personally, I think the amount of contact you are needing is because you are going tooo fast. This seems like a real quick time to establish trust, learn containment, etc,etc before dealing with the tough stuff.

Now, I am not saying you are not supposed to contact T.
I call my T. Usually after a session when I think T hates me. If I have a crisis, I call T.

I don't think it is normal to be this needy of T because I think it means you are going too fast. You might wear him out and force him to establish boundaries on your calls or emails. (Ask Sol)

Also IMHO, I don't think you can compare Pink's experience. Her T is very rare. I just think you need to access this issue and beware that T can reduce contact (which will hurt)

Just my two cents....

It does feel like we're going fast sometimes. But things just come up when they come up. Most of it is at home by myself (hence the e-mails)...in T we spend a lot of time talking about our relationship.

How do I slow it down? I'm not doing it on purpose. It's like I've opened some door in my mind that I've held shut for all of these years, and there's nothing I can do about it.

T did say to me once that our level of contact "might sound like a lot to someone who's not going through the same things you're going through" but that it is fine with him. He said he likes the e-mails because they tell him exactly how I'm doing at a given moment.

But I still worry about it. I'm used to being very, VERY independent, not asking for help, etc. Blah.

[serafim_etal]

I think the level/amount of contact a person has with their T is a very individual thing and can vary dramatically. What's right for one person and their T isn't right for another. Having that level of contact after only 6 months is the only thing that is surprising to me. That's not a bad thing...it's just that it took me over a year before I would call T for anything at all other than to say I was running late or could we switch days! There have been times when I have had email contact every day and phone contact more than once a day...and then there have been times where there's been no contact at all between sessions. It depends on what I need at the time. Right now you need a lot of contact; as long as your T is ok...then it's ok.

As for going too fast...that happens. If your T isn't pushing for this and it's just coming up on it's own...then it's most likely because yo are ready. That isn't always true, but usually it is. There isn't really much you can do to slow it down. If you haven't worked on it already, ask your T about working on containment and grounding. It will slow down at some point.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
serafimetal said:
Having that level of contact after only 6 months is the only thing that is surprising to me.

I see him twice a week....maybe that's why we've been able to work to this point so quickly. Not that that's necessarily a good thing

I'm not sure I should have started this thread. I don't think I'm in a good place.

[serafim_etal]

Seeing him twice a week would definitely make the building of trust *appear* faster...it isn't really though because your 6 months comes out to the same number of visits as my year. But this is individual too! I don't trust very easily...it takes me a very long time to trust someone and some people I never really trust. I actually think it's great that you have been able to get to that level in that amount of time...had I been able to do that, a lot of great work would have happened much sooner.

I'm sorry you're feeling so badly.

[gimmeice]

((((((((((((((earthmama))))))))))
I am sorry that you are feeling bad.
Have you told your T about your concerns regarding to much contact?
I don't have any contact with my T between sessions but I don't think your
amount of contact sounds like an unreasonable amount.

[Merlin]

I never contact my T or pdoc outside of being in a crisis. I better now at including the little crises and the big crises, but I am abnormally afraid of needing too much from people.

Well, I think you need to talk with your T about it. But if you read anything, the literature talks about going too fast, lose of control, etc and increased contact with clients.

Additionally, the beginning of therapy should be you and T working on how to pace it. T should be helping with this, so that you are not constantly feeling out of control or thinking about upsetting therapy things.

There have been examples of even therapists working with visualization of opening a box during therapy and closing the box at the end of therapy. In fact, this is done in alot of child therapy. Kids put away there stuff, both emotional and play things, in their box to close the therapy.

There is also a period of "testing" the therapist. Ie. If I contact T, will T call me back, respond to me, abandon me? This is well documented in the literature. This period of time lasts at different lengths for different clients.

We did talk about it during a very emotional therapy session yesterday.

I told him that sitting with the feelings is SO painful and hard, but calling or e-mailing and then worrying about the possible repercussions is SO scary that I never know what to do. He was horrified that the thought of calling him could possibly equal the pain of sitting with the feelings, and convinced me that calling or e-mailing IS what he wants me to do. I told him I was afraid he would change the rules and call it "therapeutic boundaries" and he promised he isn't going to do that - he said "yuck!" about it, actually

Of course, I have big time trust issues, and constantly struggle with "Is this guy for real?" and "How can I know what he's saying is true?" etc. etc. etc. But he's proven over and over again that he IS real, and he's there, and he cares about me. After reading everyone's responses, I know how lucky I am to have this guy as my T, and I'm really grateful for that. I wish everyone could have as much contact with T as they need.

[chaotic13]

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earthmama said:

He says that it's fine - I can e-mail/call as much as I need to.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I think this is the key. You are contacting him a lot and he is still saying, 'Do it as much as you need to' at this point. This was a really hard concept for me to get as well. My T has repeatedly told me that it is OK with her that I email or write her between sessions. She doesn't seem to encourage it, but she genuinely does not seem bothered by it. I guess for me, it comes down to accepting or trusting that she actually means what she says --"It is OK with her!". Also, for me I think it is about trusting the relationship enough to know that if it wasn't OK or wasn't in my best interest to write, then she would speak up and tell me so.

As for the going too fast comment, I disagree! I don't think you are necessarily going too fast. My H went to 1 therapy session with my T. Disclosed all kinds of crap, cried, basically laid it all out, and never went back. He wanted it over and done with as fast as possible. I think he needs to go several more times, but hey... that one session did help him quite a bit. I on the other hand have been going for almost a year, and am having trouble disclosing simple crap. Which is better? Who knows.

I think how fast you are going or slow you are going is totally a dynamic of the individual therapeutic relationship between you and your T. Maybe this his how your T does therapy. Instead of dragging things out little by little, he like to meet more frequently, let you lean a lot on him while your world gets demolished, get all the bad stuff out on the table, and then work backwards to help you clean up the mess. Hopefully the end result will be that you are aware of your issues and have learned to cope with them independently.

Only you know if this approach is too intense for you or not. If you think it is too much at the moment, you can use all communication skills you have already established to tell him.

earthmama if contacting your T seems to help you at the moment and he is telling you it is OK, then do it.

[sunrise]

earthmama, I am glad you had that conversation with your T about calling and emailing. I hope it was reassuring to get clarity on that. Your T sounds very supportive.

I also want to agree with chaotic13. There is not one optimal speed for therapy. I don't think you are necessarily going too fast. There is no timetable that says you can't do X, Y, or Z in therapy before you have been there 3 months, 6 months, or whatever. I didn't realize it at the time, but my own therapy initially moved pretty quickly. We did the bulk of our trauma work within the first 12 sessions. My T later told me my progress had been "meteoric." Sure it was faster than some clients, but it was very much right for me. I hope you can look inside yourself and find the pace that is right for you. If you are going too fast, you can always slow down. Only you know. Good topic also for discussion with T, who may be able to reassure you or tease out from you info that will help guide the optimal pace.

[InsaneMax]

<font color="blue">Wouldn't you say that everyone is different? Not everyone tests their T to see if they are going to be loyal to them.

I guess I just throw everything I'm comfortable with at him and hope that he's as good as I think I am. There comes a point when there isn't much point in any other way I think... </font>

[chaotic13]

Insane Max,
Your post seems to reflect that we are different and our therapeutic relationship/approach to therapy is different. The nice thing is that is OK. The amount of contact earthmama has and the ground she has covered may seem too intense or too quick for some people, but it might be exactly what earthmama need at the moment. The fact that she has been talking with her T about it, is reflecting on it, and deciding for HERSELF if she needs to slow down or change the frequency is important. At least I think it is.

I liked this post because it shows that PC is a good place to consider and work through your options. The comments in this thread were good reminders to me of the wide variety of ways therapy is done. It also reflects that others often struggle with setting the pace of disclosure and finding the right "dosage" of their T that they want, need, or can have. I struggle with this issue a lot and its nice to know that I am not alone.

As for concept of testing the loyalty of our T's... this is also in my opinion a very individualize thing. I do not believe that I ever communicated with my T for the purpose of TESTING her. If I am testing anyone, it is me and my ability to push aside my mental noise and learn to communicate when I need to.

Insane Max welcome to PC, hope you continue to share your insights here.

Earthmama,

Do you think you are testing your T to see if he will be there when you need him? I know Riptide mentioned this, but I didn't get that from your (Earthmama's) post. I interpreted your original post as being about you...how much you are leaning on your T and trying to figure out if you were being too demanding. Is this correct? If, so has it helped at all?

[Gravity]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Riptide said:
Well, I think you need to talk with your T about it. But if you read anything, the literature talks about going too fast, lose of control, etc and increased contact with clients.

Additionally, the beginning of therapy should be you and T working on how to pace it. T should be helping with this, so that you are not constantly feeling out of control or thinking about upsetting therapy things.

There have been examples of even therapists working with visualization of opening a box during therapy and closing the box at the end of therapy. In fact, this is done in alot of child therapy. Kids put away there stuff, both emotional and play things, in their box to close the therapy.

There is also a period of "testing" the therapist. Ie. If I contact T, will T call me back, respond to me, abandon me? This is well documented in the literature. This period of time lasts at different lengths for different clients.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I love the closing of the box analogy...I close my cement box, wrap it in packing tape, double padlock it, booby trap it and then I do my best to forget where I've put it!!

[ECHOES]

Needing your T is not abnormal. Therapy is about you and no one else.

My T offered me the opportunity to be able to call at any time between sessions. I leave a message and if I want her to call me I ask and she will. She also gives her cell for immediate needing to talk to her. I've only used in once (not counting the time I misdialed in the dark at midnight and called the cell instead of the other phone. lol)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
But if you read anything, the literature talks about going too fast, lose of control, etc and increased contact with clients.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Well I must disagree with this comment, with all due respect. I read tons and the one common thought expressed is that therapy is very individual and the pace is up to the client/patient.

Trust your T to help guide you. Tell him about these thoughts and worries about your need for him and your contacting him between sessions. Another common theme is that therapy is about boundaries. When you talk to him about the boundaries and get that clarified, I think you'll feel better.

Boundaries is hard for me. She (T) has to keep telling me that if boundaries get crossed, we will simply talk about it and it will be okay.

No, to answer your question, chaotic, I really don't think I'm testing T. Not on any conscious level anyhow. I think, like you said, it's almost a test of myself...can I let myself need someone? Can I let someone care about me and support me? Can I stick this out and do the healing I need to do?

I've spent my WHOLE life (like many of us, I'm sure) making damn sure that I don't *need* anyone. This is a whole new, scary ballgame for me.

I really appreciate everyone's responses to my question...it gave me a lot to think about, and left me confused enough to actually discuss it with T, which is what I needed to do. I feel totally reassured by him that our level of contact is not a problem....well, I feel totally reassured for NOW, anyhow

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ECHOES said:

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
But if you read anything, the literature talks about going too fast, lose of control, etc and increased contact with clients.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Well I must disagree with this comment, with all due respect. I read tons and the one common thought expressed is that therapy is very individual and the pace is up to the client/patient.



</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

You did not understand the comment. The comment discusses that when their is an increased level of contact between client and T, it occurs when the pace of therapy is probably too fast. Especially in the beginning of T, when client has yet to establish trust.

I am not saying anything about how "individualized the speed of therapy" is. I am saying that increased contact is a sign of something.

Earthmama said that she is basically being flooded once she leaves therapy, so that she is being overwhelmed and feeling the need to contact T daily. She said she is falling apart outside therapy.

You are not supposed to leaving therapy in such horrible shape that your level of functioning is decreasing. Yes, maybe the day of therapy you are exhausted, sad, etc. But you should not be constantly flooded and overwhelmed.

I don't have a problem with the fact that her T is allowing continued contact. That is great. MY point is that it is indicative of something, especially seeing that this is the first time she has been in T.

Riptide,

How do you suggest I slow the pace of therapy? We've already tried to slow it down by focusing on our relationship as opposed to trauma, etc. But the fact is, things come up when they come up. I don't understand how you think I can control that.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
earthmama said:
But the fact is, things come up when they come up. I don't understand how you think I can control that.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Things come up when they are ready to be dealt with. Trust your unconscious to know when you are ready. Those things wouldn't be "coming up" if you were not ready. That happened to me early in therapy (I was recovering repressed memories out of nowhere). T said it is very, very common. The memories and traumatic incidents just line up to be dealt with.

There are other reasons a client may begin to contact a T more outside of session than that therapy is too fast (one possible reason). For example, maybe it means you have learned to trust your T deeply and that could mean you can trust him to be there when you phone and email. I feel I trust my T a great deal, but yet I am not able to do "contact outside of session." I have a strong inclination to not let anyone know how needy I am so I wouldn't do that. Kudos to you for trusting T enough to be able to do that. So I wouldn't necessarily view your outside contact as a negative (sign you are going too fast). It could be very positive (a sign of how much you trust). Only you really know what it means. We are just throwing out ideas.

QUOTES

1) " However, some women find that they are always in a state of crisis. Their therapists may not have helped them develop ways to cope with their overwhelming emotions. If this is true for you, the therapy is probably moving too quickly. Or your therapist may be getting you to think and talk about the traumatic events before you are ready." (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health)

2) "Most therapy professionals agree that the standard and best approach for working with trauma survivors should follow these three stages:

stabilizing and managing responses
processing and grieving traumatic memories
reconnecting with the world

Abuse survivors need to find ways to manage their reactions to trauma before they can start to look at the causes of the trauma. This is the first stage of therapy and is normally the longest. If you try to complete stage two before completing stage one, you will not be prepared for the emotions that come with stage two. This may be harmful.

The three key tasks of first stage trauma treatment are: establishing safety, psychoeducation and managing trauma responses.

The therapist should use various ways to help you manage your traumatic stress responses and adaptations. These strategies will help you feel stronger and better able to cope, and find ways to care for yourself. While you may not stop or get rid of all your negative responses, these strategies should help you to control them better. "
(Centre for Addiction and Mental Health)


3) "Often, people in therapy are in a hurry to “get better.” But if you try to move too quickly in therapy, you can become overwhelmed. For example, you may start to explore your painful experiences before you are ready. Your therapist needs to teach you about the possible effects of moving too quickly. You need to work with your therapist to set a pace for therapy. "(Centre for Addiction and Mental Health)


4) "The client, who has not had the luxury of working up to a level of safety that would allow for therapeutic discussion of triggers, can find his/herself in considerable psychological distress with nowhere safe to turn. "

=================================================
As I said, it is fine that your T allows you that much contact. You were the one who posted about it as a concern stating that you felt overwhelmed inside (but are holding it together outside for your kids). My response to you and your statements is that it is indicative of a therapy issue. If your T chooses to allow you to deal with "the issue" by accepting the increased contact, than that is fine. That is your therapy relationship.

[chaotic13]

Riptide,

I can see your point in your previous post that the need for frequent support (contact) with the therapist can be an indication that the therapeutic intervention may be progressing without the prerequisite coping skills to maintain adequate stability. I think my initial reaction was in the way that I interpreted the... "absoluteness" of you comment.

Now looking back on my therapy over the past several months I can see where this criterion might have been used my my T. A while back I posted that my T (without me requesting it) offered me weekly appointments instead of my usual 1 hr every 2 weeks. I remember at the time being very thankful that she had read my distress and offered it without me having to ask. I would not have had the guts to request more of her time even if I actually realized I wanted it. Last week I reviewed my journaling and realized that the day she made that offer was preceded by an increase in my out of session overflow writing. Very interesting in deed...

Now that I think about it, my T's handling of me at this time was even thoughtful than realized. The way she made the offer also came in under my radar. If she had come out and said, "I think you should come in weekly for a while" my internal alarm have sounded, making me even more stressed. I would have perceived this as a sign I was getting WORSE not better! As it was, I did have this thought but on a much lower scale. Damn she's good sometimes.

Thank you Riptide.

[MissCharlotte]

If I need T I call him.

If I need an extended conversation I ask for a phone session. Sometimes they are "mini" sessions and sometimes the full blown session.

If I just want to tell him something I leave a message on the machine.

Once or twice he hasn't called back and if I really need him I call again. If it's something that can wait, I let it wait because when he doesn't call back I know it means he's really busy. (But I still get ticked off.) LOL

We have had HUGE fights over this issue. But now we are in a pretty good place with it. He's quite responsive and encourages me to call if I am in need.

I don't think my calling has anything to do with the pace of my therapy although sometimes a high need can be a sign to slow down and look at something more closely, because something is triggering me, so together we try to figure it out.

Peace