[missboots]

My T thinks I need to leave my hubby. She say's he is controlling,verbally abusive. You see I believe what he say's and then I start to hate me! I told T yesterday I wanted to quit T. I am so sick of trying and I feel I will never arrive and that this is my life and I need to just live with it. We have 2 kids 18 month girl,almost 5 yr boy. They worship their dad and for me to leave him would break their hearts! My hubby loves his kids. I know this sounds bad but I am his 4th wife. He is my first hubbyand before we had kids he said all his other wife's took the kids and ran and I made a promise if we had kids I would never ever do that! (HE WAS CRYING WHEN HE TOLD ME THIS!) My T asks me how old I was when I made this promise like she is trying to justify me breaking it. She say's when people marry they make lots of promises. I don't know I feel torn in a tug of war. Their are times when hubby say's hurtful things that I get the urge to end my life. Like I am not good enough and the kids would be better off. I know everyone will say DON'T QUIT THERAPY! I feel sad because if I give up why keep wasting the T time. She said it is one thing to quit if you are feeling well and think you can go it alone. But another if you aren't doing to well and want to quit. She asked me to keep my appointment for next week. I said I would. I just don't see how between now and next week I will feel different. All thoughts would be appericated. OH she does throw my kids in as my way of staying in T. She knows I have said in the past it is my kids that keep me here so I can be a better parent and learn new skills. Sorry so long. One more thing I am 38 and hubby is 61. He thinks I need to show him respect because of my age.

[Sannah]

Hi MB, you do have a situation here! Have you and your husband ever tried to change the way things are?

[sunrise]

missboots, I am sorry about the pain in your marriage.

Do you agree with your T that your H is controlling and verbally abusive?

Have you ever tried to work on improving your marriage through counseling/therapy? Would you want to try that now?

Did you know that when a couple has children, they can separate (and divorce) and still both maintain a substantial presence in their children's lives? From what you wrote, it sounded like you believed the only choices were to stay in the marriage so your H has access to the kids, or to leave him and take the kids and allow him no access. That is not how it works. There are lots of options in between. I am getting divorced, and we have worked out a plan where the two kids spend some time with their father and some time with me (more with me but still significant time with him). They go back and forth between the two homes. It is not bad at all. If you both want to stay part of your kids' lives and you respect that desire from the other person, then you can make it work. A worry would be that if your H is abusive to you, he would be abusive to the kids too. Hopefully that is not the case. Only you know what is going on.

Please keep going to therapy. And maybe try therapy with your H?

[missboots]

Thank you guy's. Seems like T doesn't even think marriage counseling will work. She has not ever brought it up. Her exact words are (I think if you get away from hubby you will be just fine) I love him but if we didn't have kids I would be out no doubt! Haven't you ever loved someone even though your not still together they will always have a special place in your heart? Well that would be my hubby. He can be so nice and loving and then fly off the handle if I say the wrong thing.Example we went to the Gym and he left corn on the cob boiling on medium and half way into my work out he anounces we need to leave the corn might boil dry!!!!!!!!!!! I SAID THAT WAS DUMB TO LEAVE IT ON MEDIUM. I was mad because our smoke detectors go off when we shower they are sensitive. We live in an apartment bld with lots of kids/elderly. He went off on me saying I am being disrespectful to him etc.. I do know he can see his kids but he can't be trusted to follow through with their asthma medicine,etc.. once it was raining and they were at MC Donalds and he left them at the curb and went to get the car. The 18 month old was screaming when she saw her Papa leave for the car without her and she ended up in the middle of the parking lot in the rain screaming. My hubby expected my almost 5 yr old autistic son to hold her hand while he went to get the car.That makes me nervous. Anyway I know we all have our problems.

[Sannah]

MB, it sounds like your therapist has an agenda. I wonder if she has had men problems in her past that she never figured out????? A therapist isn't there to tell you what to do IMO. A therapist is there to help you figure out what to do. To tell you the truth you called him dumb. I think that is disrespectful......

[Brian37]

im not an expert by any means, but the fact that your husband is 61 immediately caught my attention

i too am verbally abusive to my wife (not pround and trying to change)

the reason I am is I am so insecure about myself that I force my depression onto my wife as I way to cope...I bring her down to my level so I feel better about myself

the fact that you are so much younger than your husband, I'd bet he's very insecure about that....he feels he could lose you to another man (meaning=younger)

hes abusing you to cope

hope this helps

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by Brian37

im not an expert by any means, but the fact that your husband is 61 immediately caught my attention

i too am verbally abusive to my wife (not pround and trying to change)

the reason I am is I am so insecure about myself that I force my depression onto my wife as I way to cope...I bring her down to my level so I feel better about myself

the fact that you are so much younger than your husband, I'd bet he's very insecure about that....he feels he could lose you to another man (meaning=younger)

hes abusing you to cope

hope this helps

Brian, I agree with your assessment, although not everyone with an age difference between spouses will have some sort of pathology behind it like her husband obviously does. I'm sure that there are many other problems with her husband alongside the ones you mentioned, but the bottom line is he is emotionally (and possibly physically?) abusive toward his wife.

That is never acceptable between any type of relationship, age difference or not. Marriage is an EQUAL PARTNERSHIP. I think she should be concerned about her safety and that of her children's. Her husband's bad judgment, short fuse, and controlling personality are not something that missboots can change through therapy, and I don't think marriage counseling will help at this point. He has to work on himself quite a bit if he is ever to be a suitable husband to anyone.

I also wanted to tell missboots that I do not think that he is a good father to his children as you say he is, and the reason is simple: he is modeling what he wants to be "proper" behavior that your children will no doubt be scared and confused by. They can see, hear, and feel the abuse that he subjects you to, and might even turn to abusive behaviors themselves if you stay with this man. You can be a good father and be divorced too. I don't think that it is love that keeps you in the relationship, but rather insecurities that your husband no doubt picked you as his wife for, as an insecure, unconfident person is easier to control. Abusers love control, and there is no doubt that he is an abusive person.

Ask yourself this missboots: If it were up to you would you allow your daughter to marry a man just like your husband?

I think your therapist is unto something, so don't quit now. You might have the biggest breakthrough of your life.

[missboots]

Sannah, You are sort of right when I called him dumb. But I never said he was dumb it was what he did was dumb. Child development taught me that you can tell your child I love you but hate your behavior. I thought that is what I did. Maybe not. Brian It takes a big person to admit their faults. Good for you for seeking help! I do agree with you Simcha as well. It's just I am scared to end this relationship. I did not mention my husband is a Palestinian and Muslim which adds fuel to the flame. He wants us to move to the middle east next October when he retires. My T is talking to me about this and all I can say is if I can deal with today I will be happy October is a life time away.
P.s we been together for 11 years.

[serafim_etal]

First off...I agree with what you said about what he did being dumb vs. him being dumb. It WAS dumb! It was also dumb to expect an almost 5-year-old (autistic or not) to be responsible for a toddler! You do not bring a car to the children...you take the children to the car...especially such young children! A "good father" would not do this.

Originally Posted by missboots

I did not mention my husband is a Palestinian and Muslim which adds fuel to the flame. He wants us to move to the middle east next October when he retires. My T is talking to me about this and all I can say is if I can deal with today I will be happy October is a life time away.
P.s we been together for 11 years.

This is sending up HUGE red flags for me. My gut reaction is DO NOT move to the middle east...DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT!!! The moment the plane lands there, you lose all your rights. You are no longer a wife, you are a possession; your husband owns you, and so does his family. He is muslim...have you met his family? Are they traditional or liberal? Be aware that no matter how liberal they seem to be, they very well may be extremely traditional at home...and he may be extremely traditional as soon as he sets foot back there. This means you don't get to speak to any man other than your husband, you don't get to leave the house without a chaperone, you can be beat by any member of his family for any and no reason at all. Any male in the family is superior to you, including your son, and any female older than you is also your superior. And something else you may not be aware of...once you set foot in the middle east...your children are no longer yours...they are his and only his. You can not make any decisions about your children without his consent...including sending your daughter to school! The school bit is changing a little...but not much. Girls are allowed to go, but they are not required to go like they are here. So if the father does not want them too...then they don't. A very good friend of mine went through this 10 years ago. She got out, but could not get her daughter out. She has not seen her daughter since she left. She got a letter from a sympathetic cousin of her ex-husband when her daughter was 14 (now would be 17)...the letter was to inform her that her daughter was now married to a 30 year old Muslim man, and was already expecting a child.

Please discuss this very carefully with your T. Listen carefully and weigh everything very carefully.

[Sannah]

Missboots, I didn't read your first post correctly. So you feel in the middle between them.... If you don't mind me asking, what does your husband tell you?

[(JD)]

If you leave therapy now, the rest of your life is going to feel just as bad as it does today, and possibly worse when he takes you to his homeland and you have no friends and no rights as a woman. I'd be quite upset if someone who says they love me wanted to do that to me.

The other women must have had reasons to leave AND take the children, don't you think? Maybe you need to revisit that? You don't have to respect your husband unless he is respectable. If he acts out other than as a loving spouse and father, then he can't be treated like a loving spouse and father, can he?

It's very unusual for a therapist to be so direct with their concerns (such as hers about leaving your spouse.) I think you need to fully listen to her and her plans and concerns, not that you have to follow them, but do listen. Some of it might have merit.

[MissCharlotte]

(((Missboots)))

I cannot imagine a situation more difficult then feeling as though you may not be able to take the best care and provide the best environment for your children.

I think that there are a lot of extraneous "things" you are considering and it is difficult to sort them out just now. So, for now why don't you concentrate on self care? Think about and I mean really think about what is best for you....and then if you take care of yourself, if you feel nurtured, you will be in a much better position to take care of your kids. They need to be with their mother first and foremost and their mother needs to be present.

((((((missboots)))))))

Take gentle care.

[Onzichtbaar]

Obviously, I only get a snapshot of your situation by reading your post, but it seems to me that a T should not be pushing you to make a decision (unless perhaps you are in a dangerous situation and unable to help yourself). That decision is yours to make - all your T should be doing is guiding you to better understanding the reality of your situation with your husband. Have you been able to explain to your T the effects her opinions are having on you?

As for the reactions on moving overseas to the middle east. I would like to say that although there are middle eastern countries with strict rules regarding marriage, rights of women and guardianship of children, this is not the case for all countries (for example, Oman and most of the Emirates, such as Dubai and Abu Dhabi). It depends from which country your partner is from. If you decide to move, you really need to do your research beforehand by contacting your embassy and getting in contact wiht ex-pat organisations - make sure you will be safe there and will have the same rights you have in the US or at least rights you can live with. It's hard moving to another country and adjusting to a different culture. If you are already having a difficult time in your relationship now, the added stress of being in an unknown place, the isolation that will entail, could but a tremendous strain on you and your husband.

I hope you are able to work through all this without feeling pressured by your T and figure out what's best for you and your family.

Just remember, you're in control - the choice is yours - try not to feel trapped by others or by your situation.

Onzichtbaar

[missboots]

Thanks everyone for your input and thoughts. Sannah my hubby will say things like no one else would want me, All woman are *****es, He should of stayed with wife #2. I was a cheap wife he didn't need to pay 20,000 dowry. I work and help support us another muslim woman wouldn't work and make the family some money. There is so many other things. One main thing he said this week is he is afraid he my loose his temper with me in front of the kids and how he try's very hard to control himself! THAT SCARES ME!

[(JD)]

That does sound abusive. Please stay safe!

[Sannah]

Missboots, yes, these are not nice things. Has it always been this way? Do you know why the other women left? Did they have troubles leaving?

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by missboots

Sannah, You are sort of right when I called him dumb. But I never said he was dumb it was what he did was dumb. Child development taught me that you can tell your child I love you but hate your behavior. I thought that is what I did. Maybe not. Brian It takes a big person to admit their faults. Good for you for seeking help! I do agree with you Simcha as well. It's just I am scared to end this relationship. I did not mention my husband is a Palestinian and Muslim which adds fuel to the flame. He wants us to move to the middle east next October when he retires. My T is talking to me about this and all I can say is if I can deal with today I will be happy October is a life time away.
P.s we been together for 11 years.

Lovely--- meh.
I think you know that I'm going to tell you that moving to a foreign country away from all support systems and familiarity with an abusive husband--- is a VERY bad idea missboots.

What's your plan for when he pops the moving question again?

Originally Posted by Sannah

MB, it sounds like your therapist has an agenda. I wonder if she has had men problems in her past that she never figured out?????

Not necessarily. Just because a therapist responds a certain way, it does not always mean that he/she is experiencing countertransference, or something happened in his/her past to cause that particular response.

I obviously do not know anything about MissBoots' marriage, or relationship with her therapist beyond what has been written here. However, I do know that sometimes it is okay for a therapist to have an agenda in some situations. Sometimes an issue is so pressing, that it calls for confrontation, or a direct response.

[nightbird]

I agree Pink.

Miss Boots, we see this situation through a straw.

There are lots of red flags.

Whether it is believed or not, the threat of physical violence in an abusive relationship is practically a promise.

In the worse case scenario, if you move in this abuse relationship to a country where you haven't any rights, you stand to lose everything, maybe even your own children, and possibly your life.

There is alot of evidence that these scenarios don't work out well.

Why don't you do some research on what it would be like for you over there - on your worst day now - and see how it fits.

It's hard to lose something you have had.

It isn't hard to lose something you never had.

Get my drift?

Peace,
nightbird