[sunrise]

I got really stressed out yesterday at my legal meeting for the divorce. I got overwhelmed and behaved badly. Among other things, I bawled out my H's lawyer. And then I practically started crying over something, it was just too much. I couldn't help it. I feel really embarrassed about my unprofessional behavior in this professional context. This is not easy at all, and I am failing at it. After a while, I realized I couldn't function well enough to comprehend what was going on anymore, so I left. It was near the end of the meeting anyway.

T was at the meeting, as usual, as he is serving as the coach. A few hours after the meeting, I emailed him and asked him to reconcile his bill. (We owe him close to $1000.) I told him I really wanted to get all my bills taken care of, and could he provide an update so I could mail him a check. It is highly unusual that I would do this, as we have always taken care of bills in person when I am at his office. So he emailed me back what we owed, and that was that.

Early this morning he emailed me and said he was really concerned about how I was feeling. (Later it made me wonder if it seemed like there was something very "final" about my unusal request for a reckoning of the bill.) He said he was there and listening. It made me feel great to have him realize I needed his support and offer it. Like he was very in sync with me. I emailed him back, just a few sentences, and let him know what I was feeling. I also told him I would like to see him before the next legal meeting, if possible, and did he have any available openings? (We are only meeting every other week now.) That was so bold of me, to ask for a session when I needed it. I felt good about asking for what I needed. T's response: nothing. Haven't heard from him and it's been 14 hours or so. Whatever. Maybe he should have written in his email, "I'm here and listening but don't expect me to respond." Whatever whatever whatever.

[Mouse_]

Right or wrong, I think I'd feel the same way as you right now.

[darkrunner]

((((((((((((((((((sunrise)))))))))))))))))))))))

Good job asking for what you need.
T will respond. He will.

Sunrise -

You are going through such a tough thing with so much grace and maturity. If this legal meeting is the first time you've blown your top, kudos to you! You're only human. You've worked so, so, so hard at this divorce. Give yourself some grace, and please try to let the embarassment go. I'll bet divorce lawyers have seen much, MUCH worse!

As for T - I'm glad he reached out to you. And I'm glad you asked for what you needed. Something T and I HATE about e-mail is the delayed response-time of it. It FEELS like "well, I typed it and sent it, and surely they are at their computer, and why are they ignoring me?" - when in reality, T is probably watching a show on TV, sleeping, eating breakfast, spending time with his family, etc. Not ignorning ME.

Perhaps you could call him and state the need today? If he's anything like my T, he might not check his e-mail that often, and by the time he gets around to it, it will be too late. (Plus...didn't you have an e-mail snafu before? I seem to remember e-mail not being the preferred method of communication with your T!)

Hang in there. You are doing great.

[skeksi]

I am so impressed that you were able to ask for the help you needed from T. The meeting was, no doubt, an incredibly difficult thing to go through, and you were able to stay for most of it. That's amazing.

I hope you hear back soon from T.

[sunrise]

Thanks, everyone.

Originally Posted by earthmama

You are going through such a tough thing with so much grace and maturity. If this legal meeting is the first time you've blown your top, kudos to you! You're only human.

Thanks, earthmama. I am trying hard and yeah, I blew it and lost control. I hope I can walk into the next meeting without turning beet red. One part of the meeting that was very hard was after some choice pieces of my "performance", everyone on the team except for my H and me went to meet in another room, leaving me and H alone. I did not want to be there with him! It was hard to sit there with all the tension. I felt like leaving the room and going to wait in the reception area, but I stuck it out. Maybe my practice with T in "just sitting with it" helped me tolerate this. Ahhhh, the things you learn from therapy!

Later that evening, I had to go over to my H's house because my daughter left something there, and she wanted me to come into the house to show me something. I thought, oh, great, after today's events, the least thing my H probably wants is volatile, soon-to-be ex-wife inside his house. But I went because my daughter wanted me to (kids' needs first), and it was actually fine. My H and I even had a productive talk alone about a parenting issue. Despite all of our problems, we have learned to co-parent together really well. Ironically, we do a MUCH better job on this than when we were still together. According to my T, many men step up to the plate when they are divorced and become better fathers, are more involved, etc. He said it can sometimes really anger the wife, as she feels "why didn't you do these things before?"

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by earthmama

Something T and I HATE about e-mail is the delayed response-time of it. It FEELS like "well, I typed it and sent it, and surely they are at their computer, and why are they ignoring me?" - when in reality, T is probably watching a show on TV, sleeping, eating breakfast, spending time with his family, etc.

It's been 28 hours and he hasn't responded. He checks his email all the time, and carries an Iphone that vibrates every time he gets an email. It's really nice of you to make excuses for him, though.

Perhaps you could call him and state the need today? I seem to remember e-mail not being the preferred method of communication with your T!

No, it's actually the reverse. He prefers email (brief logistical, informational, or support messages) and is terrible at phone communications. I never phone him because of the bad way I feel when he doesn't call back, which is the rule, not the exception. My T flunked the telephone course in therapist school.

I guess I just feel kind of tricked. I did not reach out to him and ask for his support. He initiated this interaction with me, offered his support, and then when I responded, he ignored me and my request for a session. I didn't demand him to give me unpaid email or phone time, I just asked for a session. Yeah, it's only been 28 hours since I responded, but it still feels really bad, like he's playing games with me. I'm sure he's not. It's probably just that he's forgotten I was in a needy way, and that hurts too. He's a busy guy. Just don't email me next time, T.

[gimmeice]

(((((((((((((( sunrise )))))))))))))
It sounds like you are doing really good work by asking t for what you need, hopefully he will get back to you soon.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by sunrise

I guess I just feel kind of tricked. I did not reach out to him and ask for his support. He initiated this interaction with me, offered his support, and then when I responded, he ignored me and my request for a session.

I can so relate to this. Why do they do stuff like this???

I'm sure he is not meaning to make you feel played...Unfortunately all those rational reasons for him not being there for you...doesn't make having to say whatever on the outside any easier.

Hope he gets back to you in time to schedule an earlier appointment.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Unfortunately all those rational reasons for him not being there for you...doesn't make having to say whatever on the outside any easier.

.

You know, this is SO true. I needed T earlier this week when I found about about Monice dying- I called AND e-mailed - and when he FINALLY got back to me, it hurt that it took so long. WHATEVER HIS REASONS. When we're sitting there waiting for them, and feeling these needs, minutes feel like DAYS.

I hope you hear from him soon, Sunny.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by earthmama

When we're sitting there waiting for them, and feeling these needs, minutes feel like DAYS.

Yes, and as we sit the minutes start fueling and reinforcing these thoughts:

I didn't demand him to give me unpaid email or phone time, I just asked for a session. Yeah, it's only been 28 hours since I responded, but it still feels really bad, like he's playing games with me. I'm sure he's not. It's probably just that he's forgotten I was in a needy way, and that hurts too. He's a busy guy. Just don't email me next time, T.

We start justifying why we don't deserve to have their support, or telling ourselves that we were wrong to ask for help--being too needy, or wrong to feel hurt, or that they are lying to us about really caring.

What I find interesting about my personal response to feeling left alone is how easy it is for me to make up excuses for why I don't seem to get what I wanted. Most of my excuses some how involve making me into a villain or psychopath. Sunrise... I am glad that you seem to be beyond this stage.

Hopefully we will all get to a point when we can say whatever and really not be hurt by their lack of response.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by earthmama

You know, this is SO true. I needed T earlier this week when I found about about Monice dying- I called AND e-mailed - and when he FINALLY got back to me, it hurt that it took so long.

I am glad you were able to reach out to your T (seems so brave to me) and he responded. What a great sequence. I would like to experience that sometime. In my case, I didn't reach out, he did. I feel played, tricked, the whole shebang. I DON'T reach out to him by phone or email because he is notorious for not responding. I have learned that!!!! I am not stupid, and after two years, I have learned how he operates. So, out of the blue, he reaches out to me, I respond, and he ignores me. I feel like he lied when he said he was there for me and ready to listen. I feel tricked into making myself vulnerable. Why did he say that stuff if he didn't mean it? Why did he take the time to email me with lies? Why not just be silent and never reach out to me if he doesn't really mean what he says? Maybe I need to block his email address so he can't pull this crap again.

minutes feel like DAYS

They don't just feel like days, they are days. It has been 2 days now.

I have a lot of really hard stuff going on in my life right now with the divorce. I have a lot of crap emotions I am trying (unsuccessfully) to contain so I can get through this process. I don't need EXTRA problems created by my therapist. He shouldn't be part of my problems. I have no desire to see him again. Now I have this scenario where I am furious at him about this, I have another divorce meeting scheduled for next week, I have to walk in the door to all those people I embarrassed myself to last week, and he will be sitting there, the man that tricked me into being vulnerable. And I have to try to be rational and make important financial decisions and he is sitting there right across from me. Maybe he thinks this is funny. I don't.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Hopefully we will all get to a point when we can say whatever and really not be hurt by their lack of response.

I hope I don't get to that point. It sounds like being a robot. It sounds like going in the opposite direction from what is healthy. We should be hurt when they trick us into being vulnerable and then break that trust.

Sorry that your T has let you down, Sunrise. I would be frustrated/hurt too. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but I think I've read before from your posts that he's been similarily forgetful in the past about returning out-of-session contacts. Even if you know that it's his flaw and not about you, I'm sure it hurts, and he really should try to work on being more consistent. Hang in there.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by sunrise

We should be hurt when they trick us into being vulnerable and then break that trust.

You know... YOUR RIGHT! I paused when I wrote that last statement and asked myself..."Am I supposed to be upset when someone drops the ball and leaves me feeling hurt and unimportant?"

I guess I really don't know what a healthy response to this situation really is. I do however know... that my typical response...(attacking myself for being an idiot and allowing others close enough to hurt me)... is not a good one.

I know it doesn't mean much coming from me, but your response so far seems a lot more ...evolved...but escalating.

I really hope he contacts you back and gives you an opportunity to express your anger and hurt to him before your next divorce meeting. I hope you don't have to sit all week without an opportunity to deal with it.

[SpottedOwl]

(((sunrise)))

You have done such an amazing job, through all of this. You said it yourself -- you got overwhelmed. When we're overwhelmed, the logical side of the brain doesn't work so well.

It can be so easy to get caught up in one bad moment, and replay it a hundred times over. Try to remember all of the good strong moments to balance it. I'm sure the strong moments vastly outnumber the weak moments in this process.

Originally Posted by sunrise

T was at the meeting, as usual, as he is serving as the coach. A few hours after the meeting, I emailed him and asked him to reconcile his bill...It is highly unusual that I would do this.

Why do you think you did this?
My first thought about it was it was a means to regain some control. Was there something in T's behavior during the meeting that left you feeling unsupported?

I'm so sorry that T is taking his sweet time to respond. I hope that he does contact you soon, and that before your next meeting you can find some resolution. It is very possible that this admittedly uncomfortable situation could lead to real growth. (I don't mean to discount your current anger, just offer some hope.)

[Lemon]

((sunny)) How frustrating! At first I was actually jealous of you because your T called you to offer support without you contacting him first. My T has never initiated any extra support, I have to ask for it, so that response from your T is really special. It sucks that he hasn't emailed or called you back, but hang on to the fact that he did initiate contact so he can't be ignoring you on purpose! Could you try one more brief email just to say you would like a response from him asap?

Originally Posted by sunrise

One part of the meeting that was very hard was after some choice pieces of my "performance", everyone on the team except for my H and me went to meet in another room

This seemed strange to me. Did you want them to leave the room to continue the discussion without the two of you? Is the end of the D in sight? I hope so, you deserve to have that chapter closed

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by SpottedOwl

Why do you think you did this?
My first thought about it was it was a means to regain some control. Was there something in T's behavior during the meeting that left you feeling unsupported?

No, it was just a financial decision as I wanted to pay him the money H and I owe him before we closed out our joint account. However, I also think it was a little bit of a way to reach out to him. Interesting that when I send him an email asking how much money we owe him, he responds within an hour.

I'm so sorry that T is taking his sweet time to respond.

Thanks, SpottedOwl, I'm feeling better. I guess with time, it hurts less. He won't be responding, I am sure.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I really hope he contacts you back and gives you an opportunity to express your anger and hurt to him before your next divorce meeting. I hope you don't have to sit all week without an opportunity to deal with it.

Yes, chaotic, that's how it will be. C'est la vie.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Lemon

At first I was actually jealous of you because your T called you to offer support without you contacting him first. My T has never initiated any extra support, I have to ask for it, so that response from your T is really special.

He actually didn't call but emailed me. And yes, I too thought it was pretty special! It made me feel like he really cared about me and that he was somehow psychic and knew I was so upset.

Could you try one more brief email just to say you would like a response from him asap?

No, I'm done with it.

This seemed strange to me. Did you want them to leave the room to continue the discussion without the two of you?

They left the room to strategize. During the meeting, anyone is allowed to call a sub-meeting with a smaller subset of the people present. Sometimes my H or I go off individually with our lawyers, sometimes with financial person and lawyer, sometimes with coach and lawyer. Or any combination. Sometimes the team members huddle with each other without me or H. In this case, the two lawyers went off with coach and financial person and left me and H alone. Whatever is needed is accommodated. I like the flexibility. The team went off without us, I think, because financial was having a hard time explaining something and I was (apparently) misunderstanding and getting very upset. He was trying to get his ducks in a row, and the rest of the team was probably helping him as well as giving guidance on how to help contain sunny. That's my best guess.

Is the end of the D in sight? I hope so

Yes, very close. Thanks.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by sunrise

. C'est la vie.

It is unfortunate that your T is likely to leave things this way until you see him again.

What I see in this situation is...Allowing yourself to be vulnerable and open to accepting support from others can sometimes really suck. However... you still survive and can make due with supporting yourself when you need to. You demonstrated that you are capable of trusting but resilient when it is broken. Sounds...healthy... to me anyway.

I so agree with Lemon you totally deserve to have the Getting Divorced chapter closed!! What do you see as the next chapter?

How does... "Genuine Happiness found in Freedom" sound?

(((((((((((((((((((((((( sunrise))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm sorry you haven't heard from him yet. My T is very hit and miss on the timing of his e-mail responses, and it's agonizing waiting for a response. Sometimes I just have to let it go, like you are doing, but then I do go into the next session with this little undercurrent of anger. Which we then talk about, blah, blah, blah.

When is your next appointment??

[MissCharlotte]

Sunrise,

This is a such a painful post. I have been in this place where I expose my vulnerability and BAM I feel slapped or pushed back once again. I'm so sorry you are there now --

I'll tell you--I would call him and leave a voice mail; to me they are much more effective because you can add as much emotion and dripping sarcasm as you wish. And I would flat out say what I am feeling--that he encouraged you and showed up at a time when you were really feeling down and vulnerable and then he disappeared, leaving you feeling abandoned. I probably would not ask for a return call.

By doing this you can let those feelings out while they are still broiling hot. If you wait till you see him again, they'll be all nice and contained and you might not truly get them out of you.

((Sunrise))

take care of you. This Divorce is almost over, thank heavens. And, by the way, I don't think it's bad that you were emotional in a meeting. After all, you are not there in a professional capacity (that's for the lawyers, coaches, etc.). You were there as one of the parties and frankly, it was a lot of your life invested in that marriage so I think you should yell at the top of your lungs! You go girl!

[sunrise]

Thank you, MissC.

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

I'll tell you--I would call him and leave a voice mail;

I know, that is so rational, and others have suggested that. But my T doesn't do the phone. I have no guarantee that he would even listen to my message before our legal meeting next week. He doesn't listen to messages every day and has told me before that if I need to reach him, it is not reliable to phone as he only listens every few days. I have called him before and gone to session the following week and found he never listened to my message. It just makes me feel really bad to make a call and not have him respond so I have learned not to put myself in that position. I would rather stick my hand into fire. There are also times in session when he has said, "I'll call you tomorrow about that," and he hasn't. He just forgets. One time he said he'd call me the following day, and I expressed my hesitancy in believing him. I asked him if he promised, and he said yes. He called 3 days later. That was the best phone behavior I've ever seen from him, and it was still hurtful. So I have a rule: "never phone T."

The next time I see him will be at our legal meeting next week. I will try my best to ignore him and not let any disappointment or anger about this whole thing invade the meeting room. I definitely cannot go into all this with him when I see him as everyone else will be there. I will try to contain this and focus on the meeting. I need to focus on the D, not T angst. As I mentioned before, I don't need T to be part of the problem.

I think things like this are why you are not supposed to have your T serve dual roles. But even if he was only my coach, I would still feel bad if he reached out to me and then ignored me.

by the way, I don't think it's bad that you were emotional in a meeting.... it was a lot of your life invested in that marriage so I think you should yell at the top of your lungs! You go girl!

Thanks for saying that, MissC.

Originally Posted by earthmama

When is your next appointment??

About 6 hours after the legal meeting. I really don't feel like going. He'll probably want to go over the meeting from earlier that day.

I am reminded of a dream I had once where I had to have therapy with these 2 other guys. It was not helpful. After the session, I asked T nicely if I could go back to seeing him alone and he said no, I had to go with those guys. I was furious. It took me a while to figure out who the guys represented. They are the divorce.

[iGottaBme]

OUCH! It is terrible that he did not call you back after you were so courageous. I wonder if he prefers email so that it lessens the possibility of having to do therapy over the phone. In an email, he can limit the conversation. I tend to be phone phobic but I would never tell someone to call me and then not call them back. OUCH! OUCH! OUCH!

I hope that you can remember some of the times that he has been there for you to take away some of the sting.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((sunny))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Thinking of you!