[chaotic13]

I've been in a bit of a self-loathing loop this week. In therapy we talked about the past again and my fears about excavating the feral child. See, as my mind has traveled back in time to recall past, I've also started to unveil some of the emotions that go with the previously unearthed silent movies playing in my head. The thing is I am not only remembering the negative side of fear, violence, and pain. I am also remembering the extreme rush of addrenaline and the excitement of being temporatory out of control. A few times after being asked to recall an event or trying to talk about what happen, I've left therapy feeling like...all 50 trillion cells in my body were ossilating at a higher frequency. This response scares me a great deal...because I liked it. I expressed this to my T, but I'm not sure she really understands my concern. I said that I was afraid that the child of my past was REALLY evil and that maybe there is a good reason why my parents worked so hard to get me to contain it. Maybe I numbed or caged myself for good reason--I get caught up and feed on the addrenaline rush. Maybe if I now uncage it and start persuing the things I want...it will lead me on a path of destruction.

So my question to the group is...Do you think our innate desires or motivations are evil? When you feel the addrenaline rush, do you embrace it or attempt to qual it?

My mind has been going crazy with spill over from this. I'm not sure if this is some stage in un-numbing. I've been drawing a lot of wild explosive images that appear to be a total tangled mix of present and past. It is like my pent up/repressed emotions have surfaced and I'm struggling to contain and process them. I don't know what to do with the images. I don't know if I should stop drawing, continue drawing, send them to my T, hold them, distroy them, analyze them????????

What would you do if your head was exploding with crazy images... other than admit yourself to the hospital LOL?

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((chaotic))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

First of all, NO, I do not think humans are inherently evil. Just the opposite, in fact. And I certainly don't think YOU are evil!! You have shown yourself to be a caring, intelligent, insightful, thoughtful, and kind person....

It sounds like you are afraid that you are going to unleash some wild feral child side of yourself....but at the same time, look at how well you are directing that energy into your art. What an awesome tool that is to work through WHATEVER you are feeling.

For me, sometimes when emotions are first revealed in therapy (anger, for example) - it just feels so HUGE and UNCONTROLLABLE. But my T reminds me that feelings are information, not emergencies. So, I try to take that information, and figure out what to do with it (not easy for me!). I think things like anger and the feelings that you are describing have a lot of ENERGY associated with them, and so we have to work with that energy.

I have done everything from run (not run away - go for a run), to hit the heavy bag in the basement, to drive in my car and scream, to write in BIG BLACK LETTERS every single hateful thing that I want to write down. I have also just sat with the energy, knowing that that is what it is - energy - and just feeling it, and accepting it, and it has dissipated.

Our big feelings can be really scary...but the fact that you are letting yourself feel them, and express them to T and in your art is really so healthy and good.

Sometimes it helps to just slow down and breathe, too...

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by earthmama

For me, sometimes when emotions are first revealed in therapy (anger, for example) - it just feels so HUGE and UNCONTROLLABLE.

But my T reminds me that feelings are information, not emergencies.

... feelings are information, not emergencies.... feelings are information, not emergencies.... feelings are information, not emergencies.... feelings are information, not emergencies.... feelings are information, not emergencies.... feelings are information, not emergencies.... feelings are information, not emergencies.... feelings are information, not emergencies.

YES! I just want to purge them from every pore. Last week I took myself directly into an encounter with my H that I find very stressful. For the 2 days following it, I recorded every image that surfaced...drawing one on top of the other, on top of the other until every inch of the page was covered. Today, I stood back and looked at it...am speechless. What do you supposed do with something like this? Today I drew two other drawing, I am definately trying to release the energy.

Exercise is usually a good physical release. Unfortunately when I work out this is usually a time when my mind goes explores too because my body is kept busy with exercise. Today the cell hive that my body has become was even more energized.

I know BE STILL and Breath.

[Mouse_]

No we are not inherently Evil, but we can internalise "evil" things that happen to us and then to gain control over them we make it that it was us that were evil, that deserved "it", its about trying to make sense of senseless actions...and yes at times I can get a high when I am angry and for moments I want to destroy someone, but its more about whats going on inside of me that I am trying to rid myself off by making it be about something on the outside of me...its good to ask these kinds of questions because its the way we finally get intimate with who we really are, and thats a humanbeing with flaws.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by Mouse_

No we are not inherently Evil, but we can internalise "evil" things that happen to us and then to gain control over them we make it that it was us that were evil, that deserved "it", its about trying to make sense of senseless actions.

Very interesting statement Mouse. I need to reflect on it for a while.

and yes at times I can get a high when I am angry and for moments I want to destroy someone,

I'm glad to know I am not alone. I think as a child I got caught up in the Energy that EM described. Personally I think about it even from a physiological standpoint. Even the pain--> pleasure transition that was once posted about may come into play. Maybe there was a "high" experience simply from endogenous opates released by the body.

I think one thing I struggle with in the present is the cycle of
Excitory stimulus (rage)-->Uncontrolled released (fight response)-->experiencing a rush-->guilt over the distruction created during the uncontrolled release.

I think my childhood experiences conditioned me to believe that all Rushs and Uncontrolled emotional releases are BAD and ultimately lead to distruction and guilt. Therefore, I'm a complete control freak and avoid letting anything out.

[pachyderm]

You may learn to have both a fairly even disposition AND get pleasure from your thoughts/feelings. You do not have to give up one to get the other. But it takes time and learning.

[Mouse_]

Choatic, Yes, I can relate to the control freak setting. I must say though with time myanger is becoming less like the monsterious feeling I felt it to be...I think your find this eventually also!!

[chaotic13]

Pachy...I hope it doesn't have to continue to be an all or none thing with me.
Mouse...I hope I can learn this...obviously the child me must not have been capable of it.

At the moment it feels like different emotions when triggered just escalate. I'm afraid of what they might release into the world and once out it might not be able to be re-bottled.

[sittingatwatersedge]

no, I don't think human nature is inherently evil.

look at it this way...

Everything that is made bears the fingerprints of its maker, after all.



Admittedly, things do get hard for us sometimes - but then we are human beings, crazy composites of body and soul, we're not angels.

[pachyderm]

Maybe our minds are much too small to infect the whole universe, though it feels to us inside them sometimes that we could...

[chaotic13]

sittingatwatersedge said: Everything that is made bears the fingerprints of its maker, after all.

This is a nice thing to be reminded of... thanks SAWE

pachy.... nice reminder of our real place and actual overall influence on the universe. The world will survive dispite what we do. Of course we can create some real turmoil in ourselves and those sharing our little part of if.

I guess... if I see myself as a cell in the body of God (the Creator or HP), I don't want to become a destructive cell (cancerous).

Intellectually, I know being afraid of what lies within me doesn't make sense. But this sense that it is something EVIL, demonic in some way comes from somewhere deep. I having a lot of trouble shaking it.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Intellectually, I know being afraid of what lies within me doesn't make sense. But this sense that it is something EVIL, demonic in some way comes from somewhere deep. I having a lot of trouble shaking it.

This is a part of me, mostly gone now, that I had too and have never really understood it.

[MissCharlotte]

Hi Chaotic,

To answer your question, no I don't think we are inherently evil. Quite the opposite, I think we are inherently good. However, I think that you have encountered your "shadow." We all have a darker side that we are not necessarily proud of. T calls it your lower self, and says it's good to be aware of it. But I don't think it makes you bad or a bad or evil person.

I have often had multiple images/thoughts/crowded ideas/emotions in my brain simultaneously. It's called flooding and it is NOT fun. When I feel this way I try any way I can--like you and others--to get it out. Sometimes I run on the treadmill and sometimes I write, journal, poetry,etc. I also will draw.

[chaotic13]

What to you think help you most to reduce these feelings? I've been trying to release these feeling by drawing the images in my head. But I often sit back afterwards looking at what I drew and say WTF. Stuff is just streaming out and I don't know how to process it.

I just remember EM reporting her emotional explosion a while back and having trouble controlling her tears. I'm afraid I am in a similar state..only it not sadness the is looking to escape.

[MissCharlotte]

Can you look at the images and give them form with words?
For example, can you describe them? (Round, tall, ugly,etc.)
Try adding the quality of light, and any sounds associated and repeating phrases and questions and you might wind up with a poem.

Or you might wind up with a lot of words that don't make sense now but might later. I am so sorry you are flooding and I know how hard it is to turn it off. Remember, this is a part of you. And you are a good and whole person. It is only the negative images, attitudes, comments from others that we internalized in our childhood that makes us think we are bad. It's okay, remember that you-Chaotic in the now-is okay. Breathe.

[SpottedOwl]

((((Chaotic))))

I believe that humans are inherently self-regulating and self-healing. At our core, there is a light and beauty that is stunning. Where the damage comes from is trying to hold that light inside...whether through conformity or abuse or judgement.

You don't have to process everything that is coming out right now. Just let it come out. Love the part of yourself that is expressing itself through your drawings and emotions. The intellectual side of you may want to assign meaning right now, because that is what it is used to doing.

Give that part of yourself the kindness and compassion that a child who is just exploring the world deserves. Imagine yourself being proud of that child for drawing and being so creative. Give her praise and positivity and safety.

I often think of it as a dance. Both parts of me move...first one..then the other. It is a slow and gentle negotiation back and forth between trying to understand and just trying to let it all out. Your emotional side is obviously taking the lead right now, so try to enjoy this part of the dance, before your intellectual side takes over again.

If you get overwhelmed, stop and breathe. Take some time to be with nature. Feel the sun on your skin, or play in some dirt. Play with an animal, notice how the breeze feels as it whispers across your face. Put some stones in your pockets, and notice them or rub them throughout the day.

I'm guessing that the 'evil' you feel inside, that really base feeling, is fear. Fear is a protector, but it is not bad, it just wants you to be safe. Ask that feeling how you can be safe *and* let these feelings out.

Many warm and supportive thoughts for you.

[MissCharlotte]

I often think of it as a dance. Both parts of me move...first one..then the other. It is a slow and gentle negotiation back and forth between trying to understand and just trying to let it all out. Your emotional side is obviously taking the lead right now, so try to enjoy this part of the dance, before your intellectual side takes over agai

I love this!

[chaotic13]

EM's feelings are information, not emergencies comment.

Pachy's reality check that...let's face it, the universe is not likely in much danger..LOL

Mouse suggesting that ... hey, this is just part of getting intimate with ourselves.

SAWE's suggestion that the great Creator, was involve in creating me so I can't be ALL evil.

Miss C...label of flooding (perfect name for it) and the subtle reminder that I an not limited to just what I see at the moment...I AM FORMLESS!

And of course Spotted Owl's gentle naturalistic perspective...to accept the flood, and let it flow, and figure out what it all means later.

These comments have all been very helpful. I think at the moment the flood surge has past at least for now. I seem to have little tolerance for these emotions. I don't know if I believe in the concept of physical energy fields... but if there are people out there who can actually see these energy fields they would need sunglasses if I entered the room.

I just worked out hard on the elliptical to expend some of this excessive energy and now I am going to try and let the pencil flow, attempt some of Miss C suggestions, and then sleep.

This has been tough...dealing with this explosion of thoughts and images and having no one to physically share it with. Thanks everyone for helping me deal with this.

[ECHOES]

Mouse said:

we can internalise "evil"

Yes and we internalize the attitudes of our caregivers. If our caregiver treated us as someone worthy of kindness, comfort, love.. then we internalize that and we can see ourselves that way. We can also internalize attitudes like being not wanted, of our caregivers feeling we are not worthy of love, comfort, kindness... and so we can see ourselves and others through those imposed lenses.

[pachyderm]

I've had a few more thoughts on the nature of the sense of evil within us. Maybe it is just the expression of violent self-condemnation, when we do something that we think proves how unworthy we are. If we are more self-accepting then maybe it does not seem so evil.

[chaotic13]

Very interesting comment. The times I feel like I was spawned from Satin himself are often associate with times when I've hooked into a pattern of self-loathing. I think when I am not happy with my life situation I start attacking myself.I create this self-centered evil monster. Maybe its my way of justifying things and convincing myself that I shouldn't want things. .

[phoenix7]

inherantly evil.... I hope not

If I were you I would keep drawing as it seems to be an outlet for you - me I write - someimtes obsessively - then I stop myself and deliberately keep busy with other things - or draw - or just do somthing! I hope things calm down for your soon