Marriage ultimatum

I think you did the right thing. a lot of women want to get married and are looking for someone to marry, not for someone to love and be in a relationship with.

Maybe if she didn't pull the 5 month ultimatum, in 7 months you would have been ready to marry her...but she'll never know that now will she?

Find someone who's happy just to be with you, not looking for a ring.

You need to trust your instincts swimjim - sure sometimes one partner needs a little nudge to make the final committment but not an ultimatum. It takes a certain type to give one and usually they will use that technique when they want their way again in other problems.

Marriage and engagement should be a joyful time where both people are certain. She wanted a wedding in August but you weren't even engaged yet lol. Usually a couple gets engaged, then they discuss dates. If she does a 180 and decides to back off but still be a couple, then you might reconsider getting back together. The problem is, she feels she's ready for marriage and that will continue to be a factor in the relationship. If you're not ready, that's okay. Unfortuantely when a person gives an utimatum, it doesn't leave much room for 'in betweens'.

I could not have said it better. There is even her 15 year old daughter to consider as well who was brought up without a father. Thank you very much. You hit the nail on the head.

Thanks lynn. You have been a great help. There is also her 15 year old daughter to consider also. The daughter never had a father. The father told my girlfriend or ex that he did not want children 15 plus years ago. She was living with him. Instead of finding someone who wanted children, she told me that she got pregnant by him anyway because she was 34 and felt that she could not find anyone else. That was kind of a red flag for me.

I am sorry you are worrying you may have made a mistake. I think there are no "mistakes" in relationships, everything that happens can be a learning situation.

I don't know your girlfriend and "why" she has made/is making ultimatums in this way. Did you ever ask her or discuss it with her? I don't know how you can say you would have been proactive in going forward toward getting married if she hadn't made her ultimatums; we cannot know what we would do/would have done in other situations, we can only imagine what we would have liked to have happened? But you have stated you wanted to go slowly so I can't see why you would have been going any quicker than you have gone.

Yes, her pushing for marriage when you did not feel comfortable was definitely a turnoff! But I still do not understand why you did not discuss all this; why you did not tell her, "Your ultimatums make me uncomfortable and, if you would like for us to marry, are making it harder for me as I feel you are more interested in getting married than in being with me" or something like that?

I'm sorry, too, but I almost have to smile that you worry about possible future ultimatums from her if you "give in" to this one? Other people are going to do "their" thing but if she gives an ultimatum about something else, why would you have to "give in" to that anymore than you have to this? You have your own will and agenda (or you would be getting married in August :-) and while it sounds like you are perhaps a bit more "mature", she is going for what she wants?

I still think a frank, serious discussion of ways/means/ends could come up with a plan that would work for both of you? If you have a discussion and get her to agree to "outlaw" ultimatums (in agreement that you "move" within a certain period of time; sorry that that, in itself is an ultimatum of sorts but you can't have forever, no matter how scared/scarred you are from a previous relationship! S or get off the pot?) and get her to understand how you feel and you understand how she feels and what exactly is going on could save the relationship for both of you, if you want.

Thank you for your response. It means a lot to me that you took the time to express your view on my situation. I respect your stance. I will see if the door is still open to discuss finding a way to save this relationship.

I think she should be understanding if you don't want to get married yet; however, meditate on this and make sure you will want to get married in a year or so, because if she is this serious, you don't want to be waiting to long.

Thank you

As per your request, I talked to her this weekend and lobbyed for couples therapy and tried to get her to lay off the ultimatums and our relationship would prosper better that way. She claims that she has not given me an ultimatum but rather a "CHOICE". I really don't know the difference. I told her that I am wanting to proceed with caution right now to get engaged because of all our fighting over the ultimatum plus me having been divorced before. I told her that I love her and an engagement can come in the forseeable future if spend time with one another without fighting and show stability. She does not feel we need couples therapy. She continues to argue that if she is right for me, I should not hesitate any longer and put a ring on her finger now. We just kept going around in circles without accomplishing anything. It is very frustrating. She says she is tired of all the giving. She says her daughter is tired of waiting as well. At this point, I know I need to let her go. Please let me know I am better off without her in the long run so I don't feel that I lost out. Thanks in advance

If she refuses to get counseling or compromise, then yes I think you're making the right decision to back away. It seems like she's not willing to budge which doesn't leave you in a good position.

Yes, there is no compromise. She said Friday was the deadline and I have waited too long. She said she was waited almost two full years. She doesn't realize that previous ultimatums have set us back. She only see things her way. This is where couples therapy could have been helpful maybe.

Unfortunately, I'm good at seeing both points of view She definitely has one and I think has made it clear to you.

You can marry her or not. That is the choice, in very basic terms. If you were "thinking" of marrying her then I would probably choose to marry her. However, you are very uncomfortable with coming to that decision, making a choice, would continue to just go on "quietly" without feeling any pressure, for how long? That would be in your control; she would be at your "mercy" as to when you all would get married. You would effectively control her wants, her "demands" (ultimatums), her ability to make herself a life of her choosing.

She is "allowed" to want what she wants, just as you are allowed to want what you want. But, you are at an impasse as a result. It comes back to what you want? Since she can not make you ask her to marry you, she can only "leave" because you are taking too long for her, you have to decide if you want to move out of your comfort zone and ask her like she wants or if you don't like having to choose now (and maybe having to make other choices in the future sooner than you would like) and want to find a woman who is more on your timetable? Which is more important to you; having this woman, you say you love or being comfortable, not being pressured to "get on with it"? You have different styles of making decisions.

I might "pass" on marrying her now and go into therapy myself to see if I couldn't iron out my fears of making a mistake or deciding too "soon" or having issues from my previous marriage and relationships? Or, I would marry her and go into therapy and explore it from this relationship

So many women are still programmed that they have to be married by a certain time and have kids by a certain time in their lives. Phooey! What if you compromise by giving her an engagement ring, but asking for a long engagement? That is if you even want to compromise at this point. It does mean a lot to get a ring/other sign of committment that the world can see from someone a woman loves. However, there shouldn't be any arm-twisting involved. Subtle hints maybe, but no ultimatums.

OR You can turn the tables and say if she doesn't withdraw this "choice" you are leaving HER before she can leave YOU.

As per you advice from a previous post, I really tried to talk to her this weekend. Without succumbing to the ultimatum, I wanted to express to her that I want to be engaged to her but I am afraid to get engaged right now because since Christmas of 2009 when she priced a ring for herself and gave me two weeks to decide back then when we were five months into our relationship, she has expressed continous resentments every couple months since then. Between month 5 and month 22, it has been an emotional merrry-go-round. In order to salvage the relationship, I need to get her a ring now. Why does that seem unfair to me? Maybe I will go to counseling myself because of the grief I am experiencing. Maybe I will regret not getting her the ring. I guess I was hoping we would grow naturally together and arrive at engagement TOGETHER instead of having it forced.

Thanks swimjim, I am glad I could help. It was not surprising to me that she was unwilling to work with you on this. It's good to hear that you were able to explain yourself again and at least know that you tried your best. She sounds so much like my ex-gf, it is uncanny. She seems very controlling and will do everything she can to discount your feelings. I know how frustrating this can be. It is as if she is willing to throw away a great relationship just to protect herself. But she is creating the very situation she fears most... abandonment. My ex played the same card with me. That if I loved her, it should be easy and I should have no doubt. She thought that she could bully me into feeling guilty and roll over like a puppy. Then she wouldn't be held responsible for her actions and how they negatively affect the relationship. I had to stand my ground and demand what I deserved. Don't regret standing up for yourself and being honest with her. Many a poor soul has ignored his own inner voice and suffered through a painful marriage and ultimate divorce. And all is not lost. Things just may work out with her in the end. If not, at least you know you have done all you can to make the relationship the strongest it can be and one that you deserve.

It is very errie how similar our situations are. Thanks for your insight. You have been very helpful.

I might understand an ultimatum at 5 years but not 5 months. Leeds is right. Run away. It sounds to me like this person is just looking for a wedding and not a life long marriage. Good luck to you )

she has given previous marriage ultimatums (plural) in the past and backed off. and you stayed

If you say no this time and she backs off again , will you stay again?

How many more times?

roses

Swimjim, this has been a truly enlightening thread... you've managed to open a dialogue that has really shown all the perspectives that could be playing into both your girlfriend's positioning and your own. The thing that strikes me the most is that for those who have not been married and define success in a relationship by marriage, probably as your girfriend does (maybe because she's not had a marriage yet and hasn't found out that marriage is not easy and takes even more work than the relationship that grew into the marriage), that marriage seems to be the only valid way to exercise love and commitment to a partner. Ultimately, and perhaps you already have a pretty good benchmark set in your mind on what leads to a marriage that doesn't last, you are saying that you have a lot of love and commitment to give, but the relationship needs to be good before a good marriage can result.

"My way or the highway" is not a choice. It is no choice for the one facing the threat of losing someone he loves if he doesn't do what she wants, on her terms, in opposition to his experience and instincts. I think your indecision on this issue is proof positive that you can't reconcile yourself with the notion that you've been given any kind of choice here. Historically, marriages do not make this kind of discrepancy any better, especially when the stresses of combining households, finances, child rearing, etc, add even more weight to the relationship. If the two of you don't have compatible decision-making, negotiating, and communication skill sets now, you are going to have a mountain of problems later. A marriage isn't just a vow you make to each other before God, it's not just a piece of paper filed with the state, it's not a big party you have to make it "official"-- it's an identity and a way of life. It's the new entity formed by two former individuals, who are now a united front, taking on the world as one. If two strong, self-actualized individuals don't go in, one strong unit cannot be the result. Wanting to make sure you start off with the best possible individuals operating from common understanding, willing to make compromises lovingly, not sacrifices begrudgingly, is the position of a mature, experienced, open-minded, loving individual, and that seems like who you are. Kudos to you for truly doing what you believe is best not only for you, but ultimately for the both of you and what you are aiming to become.

I am not going back anymor eeven if she backs off. I have come to understand that this is a cycle. She starts missing me when she breaks it off and of course I missed her because I still wanted to see her. I did not ever make the decision to STOP SEEING HER. I made the decision that I was not going to bend to ultimatums. Although the relationship has approached nearly 23 months, it has been extremely stressful during that time.

Thank you very much for your reply and support. ZI do believe that my unfortunate previous experience has give me the ability to look beyond all the honeymoon elements that go into the beginning of a marriage. She can't see past that because she hasn't been there. She has pushed me away with her attitude that she is tired of waiting when the series of ultimatums began five months into the relationship. I was taken to the cleaners in my last divorce because my ex wife just decided out of the blue that she just did not want to be married anymore. I suggested counseling but she did not want to go that route. I anticipate that she will come around again some day soon unless she hooks up with someone else that she considers to be marriage material. I always had it in the back of my mind that it was important to her to have that designation of MRS. in front of her name like a physician has DR.It seemed to me that was more important to her than her and I being happy together as a unit. I will not go back. Thanks for your help.

I have come to the conclusion that women who demand marriage too soon are usually controlling types (narcissistic/histrionic) who will never be happy unless the people in their lives capitulate to their demands. They are disordered. The marriage aspect is but one example of how they will bully and manipulate those around them. They cannot fathom that their desires could be questioned and they really don't care about the needs or feelings of those around them. Any questioning of them is seen as a threat to their very being. How dare you!?!?!? When you fail to give them what they want, when they want it, they will drop you like a hot potato. They will devalue and discard. Consider yourself lucky when this happens, but it can shake your very foundation and your belief system of what love is. You loved them, but they never loved you. At least not in a mature sense. You were but a means to an end. A cog in their machine. I wonder how many "bridezilla" marriages have ended in divorce?

I am glad you responded to my post. Your commets have helped me move forward. She emailed me the other day stating she no longer wants to remain exclusive with me because 23 months is way too long that she has waited. SHE has SACRIFICED way too much time and is tired of waiting. She proceeded to state that she had a new date with a new guy this Saturday night. I started to panick and went so far as going to the local jeweler to look at rings to try to SAVE our relationship. Then while in the store, I stopped myself and said " What the bleep am I doing". Then I read your post and I feel much better now. She claims that she has been a victim. She looks at our situation as her doing all the work and sacrificing. I am the bad guy because I didn't act sooner. I almost found myself getting her a ring because I was scared to death of losing her. Then I said to myself, this is not the way it is suppose to happen. Thanks. Any futher comments would be greatly appreciated. I better keep the strength and especally keep myself busy tomorrow night.

This whole "I've got a new date", might just be another manipulation tool - the tried and true 'lets make him jealous trick'. She wanted to get a reaction from you and she almost succeeded. If she really is going on a date then she sure moves on fast. You would think there would be a little time to contemplate and feel sad - more proof that she was in it for marriage sake and not because she's really attached. I don't mean to sound evil, but if I were you I'd wish her a good time - that will really surprise her lol. Sorry if this is hard on you.

You don't sound evil.Thank you for your insight. She emailed me last night and stated that if I take her to the jeweler today (Saturday) and get her a ring, she will cancel her date. I responded by stating that she go on the date and have a good time. She responded by claiming that she has given up on me and called me a wimp, too afraid to take the risk and make a family with her and her daughter. She ended by stating that I turned my back on a great opportunity and that I will never find someone that will love me as much as she did. Wow! manipulation at it's finest.