Hi PC,

Drove the 2 hours today for a date - she was a no show. Surprise! No, not really, because it's unfortunately the norm for women to either reject me or never show up for a date. As soon as I came in the house, my mother asked, "You were stood up again?" and I responded, "Yeah, what else is new?" It's always the same. Always fails.

I swear that if someone tells me that I am lovable, that I'll find love in the future, or that I need to love myself first I will eat them alive. Obviously I am bitter and resentful about all this and I feel like I should be. After an entire lifetime and all my teen years spent in therapy and dealing with drug addictions, isolation, abuse, failure, loneliness, hospitalization, self-harm, bankruptcy, suicide attempts, and so forth, all I want is someone that I can connect with and spend time with, but all I ever accomplish is rejection and receiving the cold-shoulder from women.

You might be thinking that I am too negative, too bitter, or whatever, but in truth I find it hard to not be like this, because women and socializing is a lot like school for me. In school I failed the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and eighth grades, much of them I was allowed to continue on only because it was in "everyone's best interest" that I did. I wanted to commit suicide in the 5th grade and attempted to commit suicide in the 8th. Was it really all that unreasonable that I was pessimistic about high school? I was told that I would do amazingly well, it'd be the best time of my life, and all this other nonsense. What actually happened is I ruined my body with self-harm, tried to commit suicide repeatedly, spent over a month in a psychiatric ward, and clawed my way through the school system. Next came university which I was told the same nonsense about, except this time I was foolish enough to believe it. There I was hospitalized twice and made a suicide plan.

Women and relationships are a lot like that. It's kind of like this…

Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Now Show. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. No Show. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected. Rejected.

Each time this occurs I sink lower and lower. Someone might tell me, "You'll find love one day," which makes me think, "Hmm…I'm not so sure about that…," or they'll say, "You have to think more positively," and then I think, "How am I supposed to do that? Create some magical thoughts and repeat them often enough in the hope they come true?" Unlike others, I'll believe something when I see it, not what it is that I want to believe. I want facts and information, not false hopes and fantasies.

I feel like I've done everything that I can to become better and be successful in social relationships with women. I have done over 10 years of therapy, social skills, speech therapy, medications, attended socials, did online dating, am active in the community, but no success. None. Here I am taking medications to keep me sane, trying to not self-harm anymore, talking to myself, and crying all the time.

The never ending search for a woman that has the capacity to love me or even show up to meet me is feeling like a fruitless and senseless endeavor. Even attending therapy is looking like it is pointless - I am defective and unlovable and there is nothing left to be done.

[shezbut]

(((Mr. Venomous)))

I'm sorry that your date didn't show up. How did you two make plans? Online, a dating site, through friends, or ??

I can relate to your frustration and hopelessness towards your sense of self and the future. I have fought with those rough emotions as well. What has worked for me has been to find a cause outside of myself to focus upon.

I'm not "all better" now. I wish! But, it does help me get through from day to day.

Hi Shezbut,

Relationships, women, friends, all these subjects are so frustrating for me. I would love to have a relationship and a circle of friends, but not matter where I am or who I am with, it's always the same issue for me. People here on PC and mental health professionals tell me that, no, I am not unlovable and I am good enough, that I haven't found the 'right' person yet, whatever that means, but everywhere I look I am rejected, shunned, ignored, or simply not good enough for others, and certainly not good enough to be loved, which doesn't inspire confidence in me.

All this does make me feel incredibly resentful and bitter towards women and human contact. To constantly throw myself out there in an attempt to socialize and interact with others and leave with the same experience each time does this to me. It's one thing to think positively the first few times, it's another thing to feel alienated and frustrated after several dozens of failed attempts that all mirror each other. Socializing works like this for me…

1.) Working on social skills and being active in the community while also dealing with mental health issues.
2.) Feeling optimistic about meeting someone and attempt to interact with others.
3.) Begin interacting with others. Goes terribly wrong or it doesn't happen. Am rejected, shunned, ignored, or whatever.
4.) Feel suicidal and unlovable as well as hateful towards others and socially withdraw.
1.) Working on social skills…

There's my social life in a nutshell from birth to now. It's a painful cycle that severely damages my self-esteem. Another favourite statement used by others is that I am still young and have many years ahead of me, something I hope isn't true because I don't know how much more I can take of this, but the fact of the matter for me is that as the years go by, nothing really changes. Whether I am 21 years or 4 years old, the issues I have socializing with others and being disliked or rejected by almost everyone remains the same. I was told that university students are more mature and I would do better socializing there. You know what happened? I was the student that everyone else seemed to intentionally ignore and isolate in addition to being mocked and insulted. Oh, yeah, what an improvement that was from high school! My social life now is exactly the way it was as a child, except now I have access to the Internet. Being told that I have many years ahead of me is rather counterproductive.

What I feel is that I truly am defective and unlovable and that there is no reason for me to attempt to interact with others. Even as a child I believed I would inevitably die alone, and that predication looks accurate to me. Shutting down the Internet and ceasing to exist is what I feel like doing.

As for the cause, I am involved with causes outside myself that I believe in and it does help for me to tolerate myself, but I find the constant rejection and being unlovable unbearable to deal with.

I'd like to discuss this with you. If I activated the PM feature on my account, would you PM me?

[shezbut]

Originally Posted by Mr. Venomous

Relationships, women, friends, all these subjects are so frustrating for me. I would love to have a relationship and a circle of friends, but not matter where I am or who I am with, it's always the same issue for me......
There's my social life in a nutshell from birth to now. It's a painful cycle that severely damages my self-esteem.....

Mr. Venomous

I took DBT group classes about 2 years ago ~ lasting one year. In the group, we discussed how victims of abuse often develop necessary protective behaviors in early childhood. As we get older, and our lives change, we still hold onto those same behaviors...which results in problems. Typically, the same problem over and over again. Like: some girls pick the same "loser type" of guy and keep running into the law, financial difficulties, drugs, etc.

It did take me a while for me to see and admit that I've developed unhealthy patterns in my childhood as well. Absolutely understandable and necessary when I was a child and early teen. But, I continued with my pattern and avoided going the right way in life. Instead, I stuck with what I knew. I did challenge myself to some new things, but I was still the same person inside. Absolutely terrified of myself, for some unknown reason. I couldn't stand the thought of being alone, so I kept starting relationships with guys who were really nice (friends). I gave into their sexual desires (because that's what I knew) as incentive keep the guy by my side. Attraction never really entered into the equation for me. What a pos, I know!

That was a big mistake that I continued to make for many years. I married my friend. I really cared about him a lot and I tried hard to be in love, but it just didn't work & we divorced after 15 years of marriage. : ( I absolutely hated myself! Blamed myself for everything & wanted to die, to put this world out of it's misery, having my phony baloney around. I felt SO guilty and shameful, I couldn't stand it!! Thankfully, my ex-hub stood behind his decision not to get back together in times of which I was weak.

As you can see, it's taken me a LONG time to learn about myself and make some necessary changes in my lifestyle. I didn't enjoy it at all! I have been in the mental hospital a few times since we've ended our marriage. It hasn't been easy ~ but I have also made some emotional progress. I *think* that I've changed my familiar pattern in life. I still get paranoid sometimes, but the feeling isn't as intense, long-lasting, and talking openly with my bf makes the feeling go away. {My ongoing fear is always that I'm just a piece of meat to my bf ~ that he doesn't really care about ME.} My bf reassures me that I'm all that he ever needs.

Anyway, I didn't mean to go off into a huge description of my life! I just wanted you to see that I really can understand where you're coming from, and that it takes a lot of work as well as a long time to get through deeply embedded patterns that we carry. The patterns can be changed, but it takes time and focus, over and over again.

Gentle hugs to you!

Mr V

Its terrible to hear about you being let down so many times, and I am very sorry to hear of it.. Yes, dating is incredibly hard at times, and people suffer knock backs a lot.

Can I say one thing tho? Your posts are really angry, and you also talk about not liking yourself so many times. I do think that you should stop dating, and find a way to like yourself first. How can you expect someone to like you when you dont like yourself? Its a vicious circle indeed but people do give off a vibe and that might be what makes people not stick around.

When you like yourself, which I know is sometimes easier to say than to do, your confidence will grow and that, can I say as a woman and from my point of view, is THE most attractive thing about a man.

I do hope you take time out, and really try and work on your own self esteem instead of putting your self esteem in the hands of others. Having a partner will not complete you - it in itself can bring a whole new set on problems and I dont think you should look to find your happiness elsewhere - try looking at what you can do for yourself and find things that make you happy. I do believe that when you find your peace, that dating will become a whole lot more fruitful, and not only that, a richer and better experience when you do finally meet a special someone - you will be able to deal with any couples problems that arise in a better, more even manner too.

I do wish you my warmest and I hope you find a way to like yourself for yourself.. By your post you've already shown me so much strength by seeking help from others. That in itself is an amazing thing to do as so many people dont.

[Puffyprue]

Someone said this to me " the hardest thing about loving me is i dont love myself"and it makes everything hard, i can related some how about feeling unlovable and i am very pessimistic when it comes to relation with other human because i always ended up hurts
i know you are angry and sad right now, but have you ask her why she didnt show up? maybe its not you maybe its her , i remember reading your post that your date has disability ( not sure if this the same person) but if i were her i think the problem might be me , i have disability and iam very insecure about my body and so scared of rejection so she might be have the same problem too thats why she didnt show up , imho maybe you should ask her why she didnt comes maybe her answer will help you to understand

iam sorry that you feeling like this *hugs*

[Open Eyes]

(((V))),

It is not just you that struggles to be loved. It is a problem for many people. If it wasn't a problem there would not be so many dating sites and people who use them also looking for love. And just because people turn to those sites it doesn't mean they find love there either.

Friends? That is hard to come by as well, there are lots of people who don't really have friends you know. And these people get lonely too, and they may wonder why.
Truth is, if we have one really good friend in our life, we are very lucky.

I just don't want you to think, "you are the only one" that struggles with love and friends, because that would not be fair to yourself.

When you meet a potential "girl" that may be a friend, do you talk about not liking yourself and your rejections? I do have to agree with the other poster that talked about "liking yourself first".

I am very "sorry" that you had a plan to meet up with a girl and she did not show up.
I think that is "her" issue and not yours.

I met a VERY nice couple around me and my husband's age and they had a Memorial day picnic that they planned and invited a bunch of people and had bought a lot of food. NO ONE SHOWED UP or even CALLED TO SAY THEY WOULD NOT BE COMING.

And I do a lot of entertaining at parties and often I hear the people who are throwing the party talk about people not RSVPing or showing up too. And then people do show up and they are over 2 hours late.

V, I don't know what is wrong with people now, but I have to say, that people have changed a lot over the years. People are distant and not friendly and they lack respect for others. This is not just you, I see this a lot.

That couple I met, they were REALLY NICE, and I just could not believe that they sat there with all that food AND NONE OF THEIR GUESTS SHOWED UP, Oh how RUDE. And they invited a lot of people who said they were coming too.

I just don't want you to think, "it is only YOU" because you are really not alone in your struggle to have friends and find a girlfriend.

I just wanted to add something here. THE most active forum on this site that I have noticed, is the relationship forum. I don't ever see anyone that isn't struggling and alone somehow in this forum. And then, scolling down, the next most visited forum is depression.

I have noticed a big change in people as I mentioned and since the economy did the downturn, people have been more worried and lost and depressed than a very long time. And people get married much later in life now too.

(((Hugs)))
Open Eyes

In response to the replies in the thread…

Yes, I am frustrated and upset by the continuous loneliness I endure, because it's hard to deal with. I've spent my entire life alone and I desperately want someone to connect with that I can spend real time with and not have to send emails to. Albeit emails are fine, the fact of the matter is that "((((((((((())))))))))" doesn't quite replace an actual hug, which I have not had for several years now. In fact I have been so lonely in my life that I wasn't aware of what a "hug" was until I was 17 years old, and even now it is still rather foreign and exciting when I think about hugs.

Anyway…

No, I don't talk about issues with rejection, depression, self-harm, or any of those subjects with women. I am honest and upfront about being diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, because there is nothing I can do about that and I think it's easier for women to understand that, "Hey, this guy is a little different," and have a word for it than when or if we ever meet have them thinking, "What is wrong with him?"

For the date that is the subject of this thread I made sure I was clean and hygienic before coming, wore some of my favourite clothes like a tarantula shirt, and arrived 30 minutes early because I think being late is not fashionable, it is rude, and I am obsessively punctual.

I disagree with the liking oneself statements because I don't believe it takes into consideration what endless isolation and loneliness feels like and how self-esteem is. What I think is a much more rational belief is that a social life/support system compliments self-esteem, which is what my counselor has said. Having individuals in my life that genuinely care about me and are there for me would help me improve my self-esteem and help me learn to 'like' myself.

For example, as users on PC know, I like to do macro insect photography in the summer, which I have been doing more regularly for about a year now. In 2011, I had several times self-harmed as punishment for bad photos, until I risked sending them to my best friend in the United States; she responded that they were incredible. I thought, "Oh, umm, okay?" Now in 2012 I have a DSLR camera and have been self-harm free for 3 months. Had I not had that kind of support, I wouldn't have been 3 months sober, I wouldn't have continued to do photography, and I might very well have committed suicide, which I had planned to do in 2011 before I started to talk to her about mental health issues I have.

It makes much more sense to me that self-esteem is largely reflected back at an individual by those around them. I can't create feelings of confidence and of liking myself in me when I am alone all the time, rejected, unloved, and disliked virtually everywhere I am. To say I must like myself first I feel disregards what it is like to have a low self-esteem and to have few, if any, individuals in your life that care about you.

A lot of the time I could sit here and cry endlessly because all I want is someone that I can connect with and that really cares about me to be in my life, but all I receive are rejections. I would like to be hugged, have someone to chat and spend time with, someone that cares what I have to say, and maybe someone to celebrate my birthday with, which I haven't done in years because nobody cares. 2012 was the first time in a long time that someone did anything for me for my birthday, and that was my best friend in the U.S. that mailed me some things.

Notwithstanding my social and mental health issues, I find that I have a hard time interacting with others and being accepted simply because of my interests and passions. You'd be surprised at how many times I've been rejected because I raise tarantulas and have been insulted for wanting to become a bus driver, even by those several years older than me. I've nearly ceased telling others about what I am passionate about and what I want to do because it's always thrown back in my face.

I feel like I am still the weirdo nobody likes in the schoolyard - that hasn't changed even if my age has.

I don't feel like I am asking for too much from others. I'm not rude, I don't swear, I don't talk about my mental health issues, all I want is to connect with someone, and sometimes all I want is to talk to someone that is at least close to my age and not paid to talk to me.

Originally Posted by Didgee Eeyou

I'd like to discuss this with you. If I activated the PM feature on my account, would you PM me?

Yes I will - I've tried before but discovered that you don't have that feature activated.

[Open Eyes]

Hi (((V))),

It sounds like you have calmed down a little today. I can't blame you for being upset either.

I forget where you live now, I thought for some reason that you lived in the states, Arizona maybe?

I was thinking about you because I was checking a party request for reptiles etc. and I do not do that in my own entertainment business. But it would be something that perhaps "you" could think about doing, depending on where you live and how many children are around. Usually young boys love to have reptiles/even spiders brought to their parties and the person who entertains with these reptiles brings the reptiles and stands and talks about each reptile/insect and the children can take turns touching or holding the ones that are "not" poisenous or harmful.

It isn't about your love of children, it is about sharing what "you" love "with" children.
And when you do that you can also share your enthusiasm and that is what children love. That would get you out in the world V and that is where you end up meeting people and slowly working towards meeting someone that "can" appreciate you. Many parties have families there and that is when you can meet others around children that may prove to end up being a friend down the road.

V, I am going to be honest with you. I am terrified of spiders and I don't picture myself hold a taranchila anytime soon. And I would wonder if I met you when you would want me to do that.

However, I do respect people that have a passion, because I have a passion as well.
I don't dislike insects or reptiles, but I am a normal woman and I do fear them.

The other thing I was thinking about is that it may be good for you to try to find an Asberger's support group where you may be able to meet others that also struggle with Asbergers and find it difficult to make friends. I thought about that V because my grand nephew is also struggling in school with making "any" friends and he too feels lonely and down. In fact my niece really struggled with him this year because he was suicidal and he is only 8 years old. So I do understand you when you talk about struggling with self esteem.

V, people tend to shy away from those who have Asbergers simply because they just don't understand it. If I went around talking about my PTSD before I met people, they would also hesitate because most people don't understand PTSD either. Most people shy away from things they don't understand, and often that is because they don't have enough confidence in themselves to feel confident spending time with someone who may have a challenge.

And V, when my daughter was in grammer school, she had to spend time in special ed because she has dislexia. Well, the other children picked on her because of that and it DID effect her confidence. Luckily I was right there and filled that gap with horses and her riding so that kept her busy and around other girls that also had that interest too. But she still dealt with some razzing because of her dislexia. And my daughter did not lack in intellectual ability, she just had to learn differently. There again V, there were children that avoided my daughter simply because they didn't understand dislexia, all they knew is that it was something different and so they tended to avoid her.

In fact V, while I was raising my daughter I was a brownie leader. I wanted to help my daughter have friends. And I worked hard at it. But I came to realize that my husband was a binge alcoholic and because I shared that with my coleader ( I was frightened and did not know very much about it and needed support) that co leader began to see me as "different" and "not acceptable" and all the girls mothers in my troop took their girls out of my troop and my daughter lost all her friends. Talk about LOW SELF ESTEEM?, wanting a friend?, Oh believe me, I could relate to that strong sense of loss and lonliness.

So, I had to find others "like" me V in order to have "someone" to at least "share with" and "not feel so alone". And my daughter had two marks against her, one was the dislexia and the other was losing friends and not understanding "why". And I didn't really know how to explain it to her because at the time she was only 6 years old. AND, the one way I could get other little girls to come over and play with my daughter? I had two cute, nice ponies that ALL LITTLE GIRLS JUST LOVE TO BE AROUND. But I also had to listen to the other little girls tell my daughter that they could come and play with her and her ponies, but they could not show they were her friend at school or on the school bus. And it broke my heart to hear my daughter say that it was ok if that happened.

V, my little ponies became very important to me. They gave me a path to helping myself AND my daughter in some VERY "lonely" and difficult times. And I did finally make "some" friends. But mostly I worked very hard building my business so that my daughter could be kept very busy in learning to ride and compete with ponies and horses. And my daughter dealt with this struggle with friends etc right through high school. V, she is a beautiful girl too, so it is not all about looks when it comes to having self esteem or friends either.

Well, I really worked my butt of so my daughter could have a real quality horse. Her riding abilty did not come easy to her, she worked very hard at it. And this horse was not easy to ride, but she worked very hard at training him. And I worked very hard building my business so she could have that. She had to work hard in college too, as while she was intelligent, she did learn differently. And she had just graduated and got a good job and her horse was finally at the point after all that hard work where he was winning and doing really well. And I watched my daughter really happy, all excited because she finally got to a point where she could show her horse at really big shows and he WAS winning. All of it got destroyed by my negligent neigbor and his not fixing his broken fence system so his dog came over and ran all my horses and ponies at night while I was sleeping. My daughters horse was crippled and could no longer show and jump.

Now I have PTSD and none of my friends get it, so I don't really HAVE friends right now. I feel like I just fell into a huge hole all over again. And the ponies I used to do my business also got distroyed. I have been trying to manage with what I have left.

I came here for friends too V. Although I still do some of my business but only a fraction. Even my own daughter doesn't understand what I have and was angry with me, angry at life too because she lost so very much herself.

My next step is to find a "live" support group where I can be with people that share this thing no one understands called PTSD.

So, my advice to you is to try to find a support group and what about maybe having a small business where you can take your passion on the road and share it?

Open Eyes

No, I live in rural Central Canada, not the United States. My best friend is American and lives in the United States.

Such an idea would be nice but unfeasible for me for a variety of reasons. For one, I don't have the financial resources to keep such a large collection of these animals anymore, and if I start working as a bus or truck driver soon, I won't have any of them left. Two other issues are that because of the immensely cold weather most of the year I don't have the means to transport them and there is already a massive professional reptile exhibit about 3 hours away, which would negate my little operation. I couldn't compete with a man that has an entire private zoo of anacondas, crocodiles, pythons, dragons, tarantulas, etc. and ten times the experience.

I used to do little shows with tarantulas, true spiders, centipedes, and scorpions at the schools I was attending, but since the bankruptcy and loss of our house, forcing us to move to this wasteland in Canada, there's little for me, and I don't have the resources (money) to import and care for these animals as much anymore. The shows I did were big successes in the schools once the administration allowed them to be brought in. The first one took 2 days to complete and was so popular I wasn't able to attend class. Once news broke that there were these animals in our Asperger's room, students were storming to see them.

People aren't allowed to handle my animals - I prohibit it. You'll never need to worry about that. Inexperienced individuals are likely to drop and kill one of them, and the tarantulas I specialize in, Ornithoctoninae, from Southeast Asia aren't handleable. I didn't name my Haplopelma longipes "Buck Wild" for nothing .

I am involved with an Asperger's support group when I can afford to drive the 2 hours to attend it. Unfortunately, I don't feel it is an ideal place for me to make friends, because the atmosphere is cold and awkward. It's like a group for individuals ostracized and shoved to the side of society that are socially uncomfortable and disassociated. A lot of the members won't say anything or acknowledge anyone. Often it is an awkward silence. I feel like I would be better off with a sexual abuse support group, but I am excluded from them all because I am male, and there are no support groups open to males that my counselor and I have been able to find.

Unfortunately, until I am able to leave this province, there is not much for me in the way of social activities for me .

V.

[RomanSunburn]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but have you ever checked out meetup.com? It's basically a site where you can find out what kind of clubs/groups are in your area. There might be one for nature photography near you that you could join. If not, you could always make one. You could also check craigslist. There's a section for community activities. There might be something on there to spark your interest.

I totally understand what you're saying about self-esteem. I think it kind of works both ways... a catch-22, if you will. In some ways, you need to have some self-esteem and self confidence in order to gain friends. But at the same time, it's really hard to feel good about yourself when you're alone. I think it's a vicious cycle. On the one hand, you believe no one will ever care about you so you don't believe it when they do. But at the same time, how can you believe someone will care about you when you're feeling so alone?

The only other thing I can think of is maybe there are some coffee shops or local art galleries that would be interested in show casing some of your photographs (they're pretty amazing, btw). Maybe even a public library or an online photo journal? Getting your photography out there might be a way to opening doors of interaction with people on a more long term basis.

I'm not sure if any of these ideas were helpful, but I really feel for you and wish there was more I could do. Please keep us updated; we're all rooting for you!

((((V)))) what you wrote here in the beginning I could totally relate to! I have been stood up, I have been hurt/insulted by a "look", a cruel remark, a rude glance.
It's hard NOT to take these things to heart. I do understand. Very much. I took one thing to heart so much I am still recovering and it happened 2 years ago!

I don't know you personally, but I have read your posts here on PC, and I do NOT get the sense at all that you are unloveable! Nor do I get the sense that you or your situation is hopeless. (although, I KNOW! I KNOW! I know it feels like it is).

As I continued to read through the thread, and especially your second to last post, last 3 paragraphs...it reminded me of a dear family member. He is completely brilliant: He teaches at University: theoretical astrophysics.

He did not date for a very long time, and when he came to family functions he was rather quiet. He never shared much, but I always thought "poor guy. He is so brilliant. This chit chat...he must be bored too tears!"

My point! I'm getting to it...one famiy dinner, he showed up ... with a girl. It was the first time we'd heard of her. And seriously, they were like peas in a pod. I adored it. It was awesome. They even dressed the same! They met at university. She too was in the same specialty.

During dinner, they sat there politely, and made polite talk, and tried to join in on the more topical subjects that we all discuss, and again, all I could think was, "oh my gosh, they must be bored out of their minds! How nice / gracious of them to sit there and listen to our c**p!".

But then later, when the evening drew to a close, I thought, "I bet they are sitting in the car, laughing their **** off all the way home, discussing how incredibly boring the evening was!" (sort of like Sheldon from the my favorite television show "Bing Bang Theory").

So, my point, participate outside in the things that interest you. Go to photography shows and insect shows and museums! There will be people there that have the SAME interests. And simply in that, you WILL meet people. You will have something to talk about and you WILL connect! You could sit there and talk about bugs for hours and get totally immersed in the convo!

Do you see my point? I hope this helps a teeny bit. I do believe you care about yourself or you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't be working so hard to reach out. You are wayyy far ahead of me, too, in that you are actually reaching out and trying to "date". I cannot imagine.

And you have hobbies and activities and things you love. Merge the two and I bet it will be brilliant and fun.

Please keep posting and let us know how it goes!

Rose

Hey

I agree and disagree with you on your points. Of course people can lift you with their words of encouragement, and yes, they can help you feel some self-worth if in a relationship, but you were missing the point I was making by saying to take time out, to learn to like yourself.

You say that you dont tell your dates about the self-harming, anger. depression and suicidal thoughts - but am afraid you'd have to be a robot not to give some negative vibes out, even if unconsciously. It would be near impossible tbh. The way you act, your body language, and even how you respond will all give you away to a certain degree. This is when you get to the horrible catch 22.

People are always attracted to people with confidence - its how we are built. Sure, when you get to know and love someone, its easier to deal with any faults, but at the beginning, before emotional ties and effort has been made, we nearly all shy away from people who are giving vibes of not being approachable or depressed. After all, why as people would be want to add to our own troubles by taking someone like that on?

To give you an example of this - a dear friend from childhood told me that she spent years being angry with me because when we were teenagers I was the person who everyone flocked to - men wanted to talk to me, women wanted to be a friend. It wasnt about being any better than her, in fact she had many many more wonderful attributes than I and boy does she have a brain on her! But it was because I always wore a smile, I was always warm and friendly. It didnt harm that I was a punk at the time and wore bright clothes too! But I said to her that these people always talked to me not because I was better than her, but simply because I seemed confident, whereas she used to sit in the pub corner scowling. She looked 'dark' and unapproachable. She did actually see my point and agreed with me. I learned at a young age to like myself for what I am - nothing amazing - I am not clever, amazingly attractive, rich or anything like that, but why put myself down when there are hundreds of folk who'd be ready to do exactly that?

You speak about your friend lifting you over your photography - thats wonderful! But dont you see something? It was your own confidence that made you think you were rubbish at it, and this is wrong. As a photographer myself, I know how hard macro on insects is and if you'd had a little confidence in yourself in the first place, then you'd not need the reaffirming that you seem to desire. People can lift you, and its a wonderful feeling, but you shouldnt spend your life needing someone to tell you that you're doing alright to the degree you seem to. People can be an absolute ***** too and what would've you done had she said your photo's sucked? To her it might've been a throwaway comment, but to you it would've been devastating. Can you not see how it would be wrong for anyone's words to affect you so much over something you love to do?

My original post was to try and get you to see that you cannot live your life through other people, you cannot expect to get your happiness from others. It is actually unfair on them - they are not responsible for your happiness, although of course, good people can add to it. What I was trying to say, is to take time out, do everything in life that you love, learn to deal better with let downs and enjoy and celebrate all your good points. Enjoy that you are a great photographer, enjoy knowing that one day you will be a catch, and a lovely partner. I promise you that if you do these things, and learn to like yourself for who you are (and put the bad things about you into perspective and accept that everyone is human) then you will feel happier. WHEN you are happier, other things like dating and confidence will get better and much easier.. I know these things are hard to grasp, nothing in life that is worth it is ever easy, but it will get better.

[lido78]

I have to say that I agree with riotgrrl....that taking some time out without even thinking about trying to date may take some of the pressure off. Even though I do not struggle with the issues that you face, I routinely do this just to give myself a break....I've gone years in between relationships and, honestly, it makes me feel strong and independent. I understand that the loneliness that you feel must be unbearable at times, but it is also the current condition of the world. I do have a boyfriend and a fairly large social network but, even with that, it can be miserable to exist among people and still feel as if you are not really being seen.

If it makes you feel any better, I know of at least two happily married couples where one partner has Asberger's Syndrome. I'll be honest in that it can be challenging socializing with the partner that has Asberger's, but both couples are part of my immediate and extended social network and are key members. I think that moving to a larger city (at some point, if you can afford it) may be helpful...for the most part, there is so much diversity that many people don't notice the Asberger's symptoms and really just assume they are each more of the "creative type" or just someone who process things a bit differently.

Have you thought about having a photography show in a local cafe or anything as RomanSunburn mentioned? By the way, you are also a good writer...maybe attending some writing workshops would be interesting for you? I find that most of my friends who are artists are extremely accepting of those who are a bit different...in fact, they kind of look down on me because I "work for the man" in corporate America... :-)