Two relationships

you know sitting here thinking about this, I know sometimes for me when I have some bad relationships I find that I am the one to make the first move in resolving things. Somehow it seems to work. I hate it but to keep the peace sometimes we do what we gotta do. It is never easy to do that or "look" the other way when we know the people we love are being done wrong or we ourselves are being done wrong. just thoughts rambling in my little pea brain again

I find the same thing, Be... ggrrrrr Sometimes, my pride gets in the way. See? I should have given her the flowers myself.

What about just asking her if there is some way to mend the relationship? If she really feels sad about it and wants things to be good between you two (as Kaigirl reported here), then why not just ask her what it would take to be welcomed back into their life?

It would also be useful to know what her boundaries are, so maybe ask that as well? It's guaranteed that you won't like the answer, but that would be true of any relationship where one party feels that their boundaries have been crossed but the other feels they did nothing wrong.

Do you think it would be worth trying that?

Trying to put myself in DIL's shoes...

I would probably not entertain a discussion about repairing things until I have heard you admit that you were wrong about some things. I don't actually know what you were wrong ABOUT, but maybe that is something you can reflect on.

Another thing - I don't think she is jealous of you. She already has what she wants. Perhaps vice-versa is true, since SHE has what YOU want. But, since she knows how you feel about her, she understandably is going to do whatever she can to keep her family together since you have made it quite clear that you wanted her out of he picture. ANYONE would feel the way she does in her situation. This is where you admitting that you were wrong about some stuff (the specifics are up to you) would go a very long way. She's not going to let you near them until she gets some assurance that you're not going to try to break them up at the first opportunity you get.

Do you know what I mean?

It's definitely worth it... although I don't honestly believe that she wants to mend the relationship... not the way she asked the question, anyway. We BOTH need to stop assuming things about the other.

Besides, I know how she fights/argues. She sandbags; throws all kinds of things from out of the past and won't deal with one thing at a time. Even John brought that up to her.

I don't know... I think talking to John might bring better results... maybe. I think I need to wait for a while, though, and let things cool down on both sides. No doubt Jerry is bad mouthing me to them something terrible right now! He has in the past. No reason to think he's not doing it now.

Maybe this thing with them should just sit for awhile until I get myself situated and get my own bearings. I don't need or want to bring that into it, nothing, none of the problems I'm having with no transportation or no phone. If it comes up, and no doubt the subject of Jerry will, I want to be able to say that I'm doing fine. John has always taken Jerry's side in things.

See? I knew these two things were tied together!! LOL

Anyway... I need to process these changes first, anyway, to be comfortable doing things that I've never done before. Right? You know... it's not kissing butt, it's putting my best foot forward?? LOL

Good idea hon!!

Who said I was trying to break them up?? I tried to STOP the relationship from starting yes, because she SAID she was pregnant with one of John's friends kid. THAT it itself was bad enough for me. She thought she was about 5 months pregnant but had no belly whatsoevery. I think it was just a ruse. But when she got pregnant with my granddaughter and John decided they were keeping the baby and he was going to marry her, I supported them all the way. I took her shopping for wedding dresses and even got pissed at her mom for buying a used one that Christina hadn't even seen!! That's when I backed out of being involved except for making the wedding cake that turned out to be a fiasco!! OMG!! The whole damn thing was a fiasco except for the wedding ceremony and I can thank Jerry's family for the rest, too!! They decided they were too good, I suppose and they all sat as far as they could from the main gathering! Shame on them all!!!

Enough ranting! Yes, I've said that I wish she wasn't in the picture, here, but never to anyone else! I thought I was SAFE here to let my thoughts and feelings out! I've bad mouthed her to Jerry and if it's gotten back to her, then it's Jerry's fault! John knew from the very begging that I didn't approve of her as a girl/woman and I guess my displeasure showed when I was cleaning house for them. MY house, as nasty as it got from time to time was NEVER like that!

SO!! The only thing that my conscience tells me I need to apologize for is for putting into words what kind of a wife, mother and housekeeper she is but it's NEVER been to her face. I HAVE NEVER been rude or mean to that girl! Lee Ann, if I wanted to break them up, I know exactly what I would do! I'd cut to the chase and ... never mind!! We'll leave that one a mystery!

Ok, sorry - you hadn't said those words - I guess I read something into it in one of your posts - don't remember now.

Anyhoo, you know what is best for you - you'll do the right thing!

I hope you didn't take my anger and frustation in that last post personally. It was NOT meant for you, ok?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Lee Ann}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Time to start practicing a "gentler, kinder" way of communicating.

It's ok - I went back and re-read and in fact YOU didn't say it -- SHE did. I knew I got that idea from somewhere. Sorry I pinned it onto you.

But it raises a good point. Her trust isn't there, and as long as she thinks that you hate her and want her away from your son, she's naturally and understandably going to fight tooth and nail -- I would too, and so would you, is my guess. So, in order for there to be any kind of reconciliation that both she and your son support, she might need to be convinced that she can trust you to stay out of THEIR relationship and keep your involvement to your individual relationships with each of them (J/C/ and Autumn).

I do know that you want this to work out with all of your heart. It's really a shame that it has taken such a bad turn

I think that you don't need her in your life and she don't need you.

I also think that you should concentrate on yourself right now. You are going through a seperation with your husband and now you have to adjust to your new situation.

I also think that communication should stay open for you and your son. But just between you two. No talking about her, no mentionning her. You have your own life away from him and he has his own life away from you. Surely there is things interesting to talk about between you and your son without putting her name in the picture.

I really do believe that if you do this that with time your son will be again confortable enough with you to bring his child to your home. She doesn't have to come and you don't have to go to her home.

There is some relationship that is not meant to be.

I love you (((((((((Tomi)))))))))

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confortable enough with you to bring his child to your home. She doesn't have to come and you don't have to go to her home.

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In a more normal relationship, this would be true. She simply won't allow it because that's how SHE wants it, regardless of how John and I are getting along.

Yup! Ya know, thinking about what you have said, I would appologize even if the subject was "iffy." Even though I'm opinionated, if I sit and think about something, I can usually sort it out and find SOMETHING that is positive or that I could give to the other person. Maybe I'm too close to the situation right now. Some time of retrospection is needed.

There are a couple of things right now, I think. I could start by apologizing for not giving her the flowers personally. I certainly would do it differently now!

Lee Ann, you're certainly spending a lot of time on this. If I could show you how appreciative I am and how grateful to you I am, I would certainly do it!!

tomi that is a great idea!! maybe if you can find a nice card to send and telling her you wish you had given the flowers to her instead. you are a smart lady!

Been going through in my mind, everything that's happened since last October.

1) the BS about the birthday cake I made for Autumn.
2) the fact that I made no contact with Christina when she had the baby.
3) I had been accused, in October, of having "yelled and said bad words" to Autumn.
4) In the last part of December, I wrote John a letter, in which I probably used too many words to explain mine and Jerry's position at the time. My intent was to make clear to John that we BOTH (jerry and I) supported his decision to make his marriage work but that we would no longer support him with multiple loans that never got paid back or worked off. It turned out to be a three page letter. I SURELY said too much!

What John told me is that Autumn told them I that I had said that I hated her and that I didn't want her to ever come over to my house anymore. They chose to believe Autumn.

Ya'll know me. Would I say something like that to that precious little girl?? Or to ANY child! Those words are exactly what a little child would say, not an old woman.

So, what was Christina's intent for signing up as a member here?? The way I see it, it was to finish me off with John. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tomi, i so feel for you. i wish i could fix it. but would some sour cream cookies help? xoxoxo pat

LOL OMG! You know me too well!! Some? Can't I have ALL of them??

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SeptemberMorn said:
So, what was Christina's intent for signing up as a member here?? The way I see it, it was to finish me off with John. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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No! This is exactly what I meant in one of my previous posts, Tomi. If you make one and only one change in your behavior, this is it.

Do NOT guess or make assumptions about her intentions. There is nothing more maddening than other people putting words in your mouth, or telling you what you think, feel, or intend. Every time you say something like this, it serves to make you get angry and if it were to get back to her or John that you're accusing her of things (such as 'she came to PC to finish you off with John'), the only thing it would do is cause them to alienate you further. Nobody is going to say 'wow Tomi - you sure exposed her!' and change their opinion of her by you making that kind of statement.

I suggest that you PRACTICE giving her the benefit of the doubt, even if you don't believe it. Just practice saying or writing the words that would show that your mind is open enough to consider her perspective from a positive point of view. I think it will take practice, but it's a good exercise to sort of de-sensitize yourself.

What do you think? I'm fine if you disagree - we can make this a discussion.

I understand what you're saying, Lee Ann. I truly believe her intentions weren't good. We have too much history, but I can put those words aside. Maybe with practice, the feelings will also go away.

It's hard for me to figure out right now whether it's triggered my trust issues or not. Could be a dash of that in there. Makes me feel vulnerable, I suppose. It's difficult to act as if I trust her and then not. ... ...

Ok... I want to think like you do. But somehow, the truth and how I could behave are so totally different. Maybe I'm just making this more difficult for myself. IDK.

I don't know that I can speak one way and feel another, especially here. If I can't put things out the way they are for me, here, where can I? I can hear you countering that already. LOL

Practice! Just Practice!

I feel like arguing the point, but I WILL NOT, right now. I've read and re-read your response. I'll keep reading it until it sinks in and I don't have the impulse to argue, or it diminishes quite a bit. Do we have a deal? I KNOW I need to at least see another perspective!

Lee Ann, I love your tenacity! Thank you for sticking with me this far!

This may be my last act of defiance, Lee Ann, but here goes... I've decided to answer your PM here.

Well, the fact remains that her actions left me no place to vent or rant or to get things off my chest. It was a violation of my privacy. Maybe that's why you feel that I'm not really sorry. If I can't do that HERE, where CAN I do it?? Not to mention that she's also violated my boundaries and no matter what, I still feel attacked! I've never gone after her like that! As far as I'm concerned, she's paying the price for sticking her nose where it doesn't belong. By coming here and reading everything I've posted, she hurt herself. She got the door slammed on her nose.

I'm sorry, PC is well within my boundaries. I have a right to be here. She doesn't, especially when the intent was there from the very beginning of their relationship. This isn't an assumption on my part. It's fact.

You mentioned how frustrating is it when someone takes words out of your mouth or misinterprets what you say. I'd say it is me that's in that position and not her.

She may eek out some apologies from me. She can choose to believe me or not. She has managed to change some of my behavior and the way I speak about her to other people, but not here. This is MY place! This is where I can take any mask off that I may be wearing and be myself completely. I need and want this place for ME. Thank goodness that Admin sees it that way.

Maybe when she learns that other people have a right to their own boundaries, not just her, we may get somewhere in this relationship.

John called from Okla. the other day. He didn't talk to me like I "don't exist." He told me he loves me and that he'll talk to me when they get back. That doesn't sound to me like HE feels what Christina said to me is true.

You know, when they first got together, all John knew about her was that he saw her every year at the County fair and that she was his friends girlfriend. She was the one that told him she was the town *****. Later, when he talked to his friends about her, they concurred. Some of them had even been to bed with her; some were one night stands and some told him that she had tried to pin non-existing pregnancies on them. THAT was when I tried to keep the relationship from happening. Not after the fact.

If you can put your "Mother's Hat" back on for a bit, put yourself in my place. She lived with me for a while. She would sleep all day long, get up just before John got home, and after having told me that she would do all the "womanly" things for him, like cooking, laundry, etc. she started expecting him to cook for her, even after football practice, which was CRUEL, and do HER laundry, etc.

Christina and I had a pretty rough go of it... until they decided they were keeping the baby and getting married. I asked her what SHE wanted; to get married first or have the baby first. She said get married. For the rehearsal dinner, I presented her with a pair of diamond earings for her to have something "new" because her mother had bought her a second hand wedding gown without Christina's ok. I worked toward that end even when John kept telling me, "Mom, I don't want this baby NOW!!! We're too young!" I agree with him and asked him what we should do. "Nothing." was his defeated answer. He's fighting like a trouper 7 yrs later and every time I see him, he's even more defeated. His work is his ONLY outlet because she won't ALLOW him time with his dad or time with his friends that he still has from school.

Then, with your Mother's Hat still on, you go to "watch the kids while she takes a break." A break from what, pray tell!! There is garbage, dirty diapers, rotten food on rotten dishes in the sink, a swarm of flies and knats over it, green gunk on the tub, the bathroom sink and black gunk in the toilet!! Wouldn't part of "watching the kids" be to clean some of that up so you could have somewhere sanitary to wash their hands, fix their lunch, etc.?? What does your mother's heart tell you??

I "got fired" from watching the kids because I cleaned that pig stye! Then, on the other hand, I listen to John telling me how she never sorts the laundry when and IF she washes it. I can see old, old stains on his wrinkled clothes that he goes to work in. He gets called up on his dress. Not appropriate for working with the public. When I call him at home, he's either mopping floors, doing the dishes, cooking or bathing the kids, because SHE WON'T! And this is after putting in eight hours on his regular job and maybe another 4-6 scabbing, doing tile work. Lee Ann, what am I supposed to feel? What am I supposed to think? This is my BABY, my last born, the only child conceived in love!

And all this time, I have NEVER EVER said one thing out of the way to HER! I've told her I know how she feels because I felt that way, too, when I first became a mother. I told her I would help her anyway I could. She misinterpreted that! Wanna know why? Because I didn't think she was PERFECT, like "my daddy" (Christina's dad) told her she was! All I heard for the longest time was "My daddy said...!!" Never mind what her HUSBAND said! It was dead wrong! Even his feelings were wrong, because he didn't feel exactly what SHE feels.

Believe it or not, I KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT! The only time I said anything was when John would unload on me. I gave him suggestions on how to speak to her, what to say, what to do in the hopes that she would understand that JOHN'S needs came before her father's needs! Of course, John would go home and say "My mom says..." and that's where all the trouble got perpatuated.

Lee Ann, I'm in a Catch 22. I know there will never be anything I can do or say to really change the relationship because Christina thinks that SHE is right and everyone else is wrong... because they're not HER DADDY! (stupid, illiterate, dishonest redneck that he is! But this is just between you, me and Jerry) "Her daddy" has screwed over Jerry quite a few times and Christina doesn't see it that way... even if John and Jerry believe it to be true!

EEEEESH! I think ... no, I KNOW I could write a book about this relationship and Christina's family!!!

Ok... you can take your Mother's Hat off now and put on Tomi's Friend Hat. LOL

As for sending her flowers, the operative word being "sending"... because I couldn't get past the gate to the ranch even if I wanted to... I have a whole yard full of flowers that would make one, massive, awesome arrangement. But they live 60 miles away and there's no way for me to get there... just to be turned away at the gate. They live on the ranch that owns the "California happy cows" and the bulls that drool over them and all manner of wild and domestic animals that appear in movies all the time. They also have lose, wild rattle snakes... and my grandkids are thrown outside without supervision when they don't go to school... like through all the hot, summer months when snakes are bountiful. I know, because John told his dad in my presense. SIGH!

I should have turned her in to Child Protective Services long ago... but I promised John that I wouldn't. I promised that I would let HIM work things out. And I keep my promises. I just pray nothing happens to any of the kids that a doctor is the one that puts in that call.

((((((((((((tomi))))))))))))))

Thanks, Elaine! I really need hugs whenever I talk about this issue. It's so painful to me!

{{{{{{{{{Elaine}}}}}}}}}}}}

no thanks needed hon!! that's what friends are for!!

Tomi, your hurt over this is so palpable. It makes my heart hurt right along with yours.

(((((((((((((((((((( SeptemberMorn )))))))))))))))