[LarSo]

If you don't want to break a long-standing marriage for an older couple that's been good in all aspects but not in the last few years in sexual fulfillment for one partner, isn't it ok to have a private, outside sexual relationship?

If you can afford to have an outside sex partner, who is happy in that role, and the sexual satisfaction keeps your marriage, isn't that a good outcome?

[Webgoji]

I'm not sure if you're referring to an affair or agreeing with your spouse to have an "open" relationship.

Affair = bad. Never seen a case where that was okay.

Be careful about an open relationship. It works for some couples can be the nail in the coffin for others. Before you start that, be sure you and your spouse completely consider all the ramin ... ramify ... consequences.

[tinyrabbit]

Depends how you define a marriage, I suppose.

[Tenmoku]

Cheating is just that. It's not the sex that is necessarily so bad, but the deception. An open relationship is one thing, but I don't know how deception is ever morally tenable.

You've not replied to anything on your previous post about this, it's pretty much the same issue.

You've been married 45 years, and your wife is having trouble having intercourse - it causes her pain. You've already had some affairs. Are you going to say something to your wife? Or do you think as you said in your previous post that she will not be happy with the idea or to find out? From your other post, I don't think it sounds as if she will happily agree to an open marriage, which just leaves lying.

I think it's up to you to make a choice. Affairs are bad news, they always hurt the other person.. your need for sex seems to be more important than 45 years of a happy marriage, is that fair to say? Please, whatever you do, treat your wife with respect.

[tinyrabbit]

I'll elaborate on my previous post. If you see marriage merely as a legal and residential state, that's one thing.

But it's not what marriage is to me and I'd rather get divorced than do what you describe.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by LarSo

If you don't want to break a long-standing marriage for an older couple that's been good in all aspects but not in the last few years in sexual fulfillment for one partner, isn't it ok to have a private, outside sexual relationship?

If you can afford to have an outside sex partner, who is happy in that role, and the sexual satisfaction keeps your marriage, isn't that a good outcome?

That would lead to an 'open marriage'. Whether it's OK or not, is truly subjective. It's a lifestyle for some in this world. Will there be an openness and honesty about this lifestyle?

I believe, there's literature out there, to help you sort out between you and your spouse, if this is the type of marriage, you both want, from here on out.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by LarSo

If you don't want to break a long-standing marriage for an older couple that's been good in all aspects but not in the last few years in sexual fulfillment for one partner, isn't it ok to have a private, outside sexual relationship?

If you can afford to have an outside sex partner, who is happy in that role, and the sexual satisfaction keeps your marriage, isn't that a good outcome?

You are asking about whether it is a good outcome.

Three people are involved:

- your wife
- you
- your hypothetical second partner.

So to say that it is a good outcome, you need to take into account the viewpoint of each of those three folks.

I am not saying that it would not be a good outcome - no - I am just saying that all three people have their feelings, expectations, hopes, etc.

So all need to be consulted with.

[LarSo]

Originally Posted by riotgrrrl

You've not replied to anything on your previous post about this, it's pretty much the same issue.

You've been married 45 years, and your wife is having trouble having intercourse - it causes her pain. You've already had some affairs. Are you going to say something to your wife? Or do you think as you said in your previous post that she will not be happy with the idea or to find out? From your other post, I don't think it sounds as if she will happily agree to an open marriage, which just leaves lying.

I think it's up to you to make a choice. Affairs are bad news, they always hurt the other person.. your need for sex seems to be more important than 45 years of a happy marriage, is that fair to say? Please, whatever you do, treat your wife with respect.

Are you speaking from your experience or is this opinion. I'm looking for help from like minded people who have wrestled with this problem.

Originally Posted by LarSo

Are you speaking from your experience or is this opinion. I'm looking for help from like minded people who have wrestled with this problem.

My post was mainly about what you wrote on a previous thread:

Originally Posted by LarSo

I have been married 45 years and am frustrated because my I have not been able to have intercourse with my wife for the past several years and I miss it badly. She has hormonal deficiencies and can't use gels and as result, her vagina is extremely dry and inflexible, so intercourse is ultra painful. She's consulted physician specialists but to no avail. I have had extramarital relationships for sex as I see no other way for me to have intercourse. I have kept this secret from her because I don't know how to present the idea, as I think she'd be unhappy. I'm unhappy doing it but enjoy sex. Are there any other options?

And yes, I do have some experience, thankyou, in both situations. Except I am looking at this from your wife's side. I am considerably younger than you, like your wife, I cannot control my body (except mine isn't caused by hormones) but I have a supportive, faithful partner. Luckily.

I find from your post that you do not address a few things. I do imagine that your wife has gone through the menopause, as well as suffering pain. The menopause also causes some difficulty with sex and feeling sexy. You show little understanding of this. From a person who has pain like your wife, I find it very hard to see your point of view and it seems you show little empathy towards her with your posts, and you're being quite selfish - whatever happened to 'in sickness and health'? Sure, you do have needs, but those can be addressed without having an affair. You mention that she would be unhappy if she knew, and she would probably be unhappy with you setting up a little arrangement, yet you still want to go ahead? You know that you will hurt her? Even if she does agree to you having sex elsewhere, you will may make her feel dreadful for something that is no fault of her own, and that she would be cornered into agreeing, rather than lose you as a husband. Obviously this is an 'opinion' on the last bit, but it's an educated one because you already stated she will not be happy.

Do you really want to make her go through this, because you cannot think outside of your pants? You actually make me a sad that you are even considering this, especially as you're not a young man and you've had a wonderful (you say) marriage for 45 years. It's like the last bit wasn't important enough to consider her feelings now.

If you want a lot of us here to give you some kudos with having affairs, I am afraid you may just find support thin on the ground. You can post as many times as you like about it, but I don't suspect the outcome will be different. I simply don't think there are many 'like-minded' people here, as you put it when it comes to affairs.

[1SadGypsy]

Originally Posted by riotgrrrl

My post was mainly about what you wrote on a previous thread:


If you want a lot of us here to give you some kudos with having affairs, I am afraid you may just find support thin on the ground. You can post as many times as you like about it, but I don't suspect the outcome will be different. I simply don't think there are many 'like-minded' people here, as you put it when it comes to affairs.

BBM = I agree.

Originally Posted by LarSo

Are you speaking from your experience or is this opinion. I'm looking for help from like minded people who have wrestled with this problem.

The person who would need to be "like minded" with you is your wife. Otherwise, this is marriage infidelity and will cause great damage to your marriage.

[ADDithers]

LarSo, I sympathize with you. But the rational mind says it's not worth it. An affair means DRAMA. At your age, do you want that? You can never gauge how much drama it'll cost you - don't discount the fact it could cost you your marriage. It could mean a moment of weakness - a lifetime of regret.

[EmilysZoo]

This is such a hot topic as many people have strong opinions. First, I agree that deceiving your wife in this way is wrong and is a recipe for disaster. Don't get me wrong, I have no moral objections agains an 'open marriage,' but your situation is not set up for that. You've already cheated. Also, your wife is in pain so maybe she would agree to it--but due to guilt or some other emotion--that is not conducive to a healthy 'open marriage.'

I'm probably more uncomfortable talking about sex than the average person, but I would suggest that you talk to your wife about other ways to relieve your sexual tension. My physical relationship with my husband has changed in the past two years (ED, my increase in sex drive, other things) and the most courageous thing I've done is to be more open about what I need. We're still a ways off from getting things right for both of us, but it is evolving in a positive way. Maybe sex is painful for her, but that doesn't mean you can't offer back-rubs, cuddling, etc. to make her feel physically good.

Likewise, if you explain to her in a non-judgemental way that you need sex, please explore role-play, sex-toys, and other ways for you to have sexual release that don't involve pain for her. Do you think there is anything wrong with this?

One other thought is to explore sex therapy. I have never done this so easier said than done, but maybe there is something to this.

It just seems like 45 years is too much to toss away without trying something else.

[ImperfectMe]

While I can understand your frustration with the lack of intimacy in your marriage, I hope I can open your eyes to what your wife may feel, or go through if she ever found out that you were unfaithful.

I have recently found out about my husband having an affair, so I would like to share with you the thoughts that went through my head.

I felt like there was something that I did wrong to cause him to stray. Was I not pretty enough, sexy enough, a good enough wife? My self-esteem was shattered! I understand that your wife is going through something that isn't even her fault, but she might still question ALL of her qualities. It's TRAUMATIC.

Then, I started thinking about STD's. How on earth could a man who supposedly loves me put my health at risk without me letting me have a say in it?

I get intrusive thoughts of him in bed with another woman. Picturing him having sex with another woman. These are just made-up images in mind, probably not even exact recounts of the infidelity, but they're there, and I can't get rid of them. They are traumatizing.

He promised me when we were married, that his hands, and his thoughts were meant for me only. His promise has been broken, so any other promise he makes to me will mean nothing. Hopefully this is just temporary, but I'm not sure I can ever trust him again. With anything.

This is just the tip of the iceburg of feelings that I have about the whole thing.

I don't want to tell you what you should, or shouldn't do, but what would have been so much less hurtful is if my husband would have come to me when he felt the temptation. He could have given us a chance to mend what was broken. Sure, there are things that I wasn't giving him that he needed, but he didn't even give me a chance to fix it. He never told me that he couldn't live with the way things were going in our marriage. It would have been a real eye opener for me. I would not have been angry.

I really hope that you can talk to your wife about how you are feeling. There is nothing more important in a marriage than communication. It's a huge lesson I have learned. If you speak with your wife about how you are feeling, she may even respect you more, which in return might make her more determined to find something else that might help you two find intimacy again. You need to ask yourself if you would rather hurt your wife in one of the most terrible ways, or talk to her about what you two can do to make your marriage more fulfilling.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by LarSo

If you don't want to break a long-standing marriage for an older couple that's been good in all aspects but not in the last few years in sexual fulfillment for one partner

You mention that ONE sexual partner has not been fulfilled.

And go on to talk about YOUR affairs.

So, I have deduced that the ONE partner who has not been fulfilled is... YOU.

(of course I do have sympathy for your plight - no question about that)

But, the way you wrote it, it kind of seems that you are also the ONLY ONE partner who has not been fulfilled.

So, my mind is going, surely the wife must have been fulfilled - the guy says that only ONE partner, HE!!!!, has not been fulfilled. So she surely must have been fulfilled.

And yet, on your earlier thread, you write about all sorts of horrible physical things that have been going on with your wife. I have never personally experienced anything bad as far as my reproductive organs have been concerned (save for several years of medication-induced lack of anything remotely sexual, but that has been resolved, completely, by dropping the medications, so the issue was not one of my reproductive organs), so I do not have personal knowledge, but my general understanding of how things work in this world leads me to reason along the following lines: "If she is in so much pain, I wonder if SHE has been fulfilled... Because if all those horribly painful things are happening to her, and, gels or whatever it is that you mentioned are not helping, then... then I wonder if SHE experiences any pleasure. And if she does not, then, I keep wondering, are her needs being fulfilled?... And at the same time her husband is clearly convinced that HE is the only partner of the two whose sexual needs have not been fulfilled.. and... and, I wonder - is the husband in his right mind when he talks about being the ONE with unfulfilled needs? Is he in his right mind?"

Now, your turn to talk.

Again, I do fully sympathize with your plight - FULLY!!! - so all I am asking about is how come she has been left out of the equation.

[Heather11]

Originally Posted by LarSo

If you don't want to break a long-standing marriage for an older couple that's been good in all aspects but not in the last few years in sexual fulfillment for one partner, isn't it ok to have a private, outside sexual relationship?

If you can afford to have an outside sex partner, who is happy in that role, and the sexual satisfaction keeps your marriage, isn't that a good outcome?

Is that what your wife signed up for when you got Married? Was that part of your vows? I would not want to be in that situation, as I wouldn't want to be in your position either, however, I'd make a better choice than making a sham out of marriage.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

That would lead to an 'open marriage'. Whether it's OK or not, is truly subjective. It's a lifestyle for some in this world. Will there be an openness and honesty about this lifestyle?

I THINK that LarSo did not mean opening the marriage, because of how he used the word PRIVATE in his post:

Originally Posted by LarSo

If you don't want to break a long-standing marriage for an older couple that's been good in all aspects but not in the last few years in sexual fulfillment for one partner, isn't it ok to have a private, outside sexual relationship?

If you can afford to have an outside sex partner, who is happy in that role, and the sexual satisfaction keeps your marriage, isn't that a good outcome?

I might be wrong, of course.

[High Treason]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long you make sure your wife never finds out. You have to be sure to be completely safe about it. For example, never have sex with anyone she knows, at all, ever. Never meet the people you are having sex with in locations she would ever go under any circumstances, and preferably not anywhere she knows that you go. If you communicate online with the people you are having sex with, be computer savvy enough to cover your tracks. By the way, is this post in your browser history? Basically, just be really smart about it. Always keep in mind how unhappy she would be if she found out. If you don't want her to be unhappy, you have to put in the effort to keep the affair a secret.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I THINK that LarSo did not mean opening the marriage, because of how he used the word PRIVATE in his post:
I might be wrong, of course.

My mistake there, missed that word.

Originally Posted by High Treason

I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long you make sure your wife never finds out. You have to be sure to be completely safe about it. For example, never have sex with anyone she knows, at all, ever. Never meet the people you are having sex with in locations she would ever go under any circumstances, and preferably not anywhere she knows that you go. If you communicate online with the people you are having sex with, be computer savvy enough to cover your tracks. By the way, is this post in your browser history? Basically, just be really smart about it. Always keep in mind how unhappy she would be if she found out. If you don't want her to be unhappy, you have to put in the effort to keep the affair a secret.

He raises a point here.

Originally Posted by LarSo

If you don't want to break a long-standing marriage for an older couple that's been good in all aspects but not in the last few years in sexual fulfillment for one partner, isn't it ok to have a private, outside sexual relationship?

If you can afford to have an outside sex partner, who is happy in that role, and the sexual satisfaction keeps your marriage, isn't that a good outcome?

I get, now, what you mean. Glad I am no longer grappling with this thought process, but I get there are marriages where sex is not fulfilled in the marriage. I get the whole issue of 'morality' etc. If you can afford to keep a mistress, and this woman is ok in that role, and you feel that this woman, can handle it.
'good outcome' is subjective. However, it's possible. I believe that it's more successful in European culture, than it is in American culture.

I didn't go down the other woman path, and am glad I didn't. However, I was at a point in my life, where I really, felt that it's all that was available.

Let your mistress, know, there is support, just difficult to find.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

If you can afford to keep a mistress, and this woman is ok in that role, and you feel that this woman, can handle it.
'good outcome' is subjective. However, it's possible. I believe that it's more successful in European culture, than it is in American culture.

I didn't go down the other woman path, and am glad I didn't. However, I was at a point in my life, where I really, felt that it's all that was available.

Let your mistress, know, there is support, just difficult to find.

My bad - did not pick up on the use of the word "afford".

Sure enough, "afford" means that the (hypothetical?) woman/women involved would be mistresses rather than additional lovers.

[Arwen_78]

Much do you value sex in a relationship?

Really if it's a big deal you need to work on that part of the relationship. Sex is just another part of a whole relationship. You need to make that part work with the person you are with. If you are looking for fault on one side of a relationship there must be others you are only looking for blame.

Originally Posted by LarSo

If you don't want to break a long-standing marriage for an older couple that's been good in all aspects but not in the last few years in sexual fulfillment for one partner, isn't it ok to have a private, outside sexual relationship?

If you can afford to have an outside sex partner, who is happy in that role, and the sexual satisfaction keeps your marriage, isn't that a good outcome?

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by High Treason

I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long you make sure your wife never finds out. You have to be sure to be completely safe about it. For example, never have sex with anyone she knows, at all, ever. Never meet the people you are having sex with in locations she would ever go under any circumstances, and preferably not anywhere she knows that you go. If you communicate online with the people you are having sex with, be computer savvy enough to cover your tracks. By the way, is this post in your browser history? Basically, just be really smart about it. Always keep in mind how unhappy she would be if she found out. If you don't want her to be unhappy, you have to put in the effort to keep the affair a secret.

When I think of this plan, I see the following potential loopholes.

Money: I think it was in the 1997 that there was an article in Playboy (which my then husband then subscribed to but later stopped out of boredom with the "industry standard" women, and I can totally see how one would quickly become bored, so the fact that Playboy is still so popular cannot be explained, in my opinion). The article lamented how hard it had become to have mistresses. One of the bad guys contributing to the plight of modern mistress afforders was American Express. American Express, in the past, just sent high level statements. Then, it must have become itemizing those statements, thus providing easily traceable ... well, you know what I mean - if you go to a restaurant and pay with AmEx, then your wife gets to see it. So, Playboy advised cash dealings only. Playboy also advised no overtipping. They said that if you tip too generously, then the waiters will remember you, smile at you next time you come, and it would be impossible to claim that this is the first time you are visiting this restaurant. So, Playboy went, if you want to visit a restaurant both with a mistress and the wife, you need to pay cash and give modest tips to avoid attracting the attention of the waiters. But, High Treason has a better solution than the one offered by Playboy - he just says: "Never go into the same restaurant with mistresses and the wife. Play it safe."

OK, but it leaves us with the issue of cash. So if you routinely use cash in all transactions that you expense as "mistress-related" in your internal accounting, then the question is: "Where would the cash come from?" = Can you take sufficient cash withdrawals without making the wife suspicious?
I guess whether your bank accounts are joint matters. Or, perhaps cash simply grows on trees? If it does, let me know where those trees are located and I will be there in a split second...

On computer savviness - obviously use anonymous browsing (Safari Private Browsing, Chrome Incognito, and the like).

On phone logs - obviously, you can erase calls locally on the device (the phone, smart phone, or whatever you carry on yourself), but you cannot erase calls from the mobile provider's logs. Do you have your own plan? Usually spouses have a family plan...

I just invite you to think those steps through - those would constitute your new "double life". Think those steps through. Are they really worth it? You would be living the life of a spy, except that spies are compensated for by the intelligence agencies that hire them (and, ideally, double agents are doubly compensated), but nobody would compensate you... Think about whether you want to be on High Alert all the time...always trying to cover your tracks. Do you look forward to that kind of existence?

[High Treason]

Yes, as hamster pointed out, certainly don't use any credit cards that she has access to the statements of.

personally, I put a password on my phone and refuse to tell her what it is even though she routinely tries to figure it out or begs me to tell her. I also keep a separate bank account. We had the same account for a while but I got sick of her always knowing where I spend my money, so I put a stop to that. One thing I have started doing recently which works pretty well is that I have stopped telling her where I'm going ever. Even if I'm just going to the store or going out with an old friend or whatever, I just refuse to tell her any information about where I'm going, who I'm with, or how long I'll be gone. Therefore, it's not overly suspicious if I don't tell her where I am or who I'm with because I never do.

Another great idea is to turn the tables on her. Find something that she does that is wrong and she knows it and always change the subject to that whenever she tries to confront you about anything or get upset with you about anything at all. It points the finger back at her and when confronted with having to face her own inadequacies, she'd usually rather just end the discussion. Actually this is an old tactic women have been using on men for years.

The problem in your situation is that you have been married so long that suddenly changing your behavior may be suspicious in and of itself. But if you use a little creativity, you can likely come up with something that will work in your situation. Just remember that most people are ruled by emotions and are therefore easily manipulated.

[deelooted]

Wow, I am only 39 and guess so old fashioned... one woman for me, that is all. And I appreciate her love more than sex. Would never trade this relationship for anything else