[pammie]

Hi friends, Hope I'm posting in the right place. This is bugging me--it's about my mom.

History--I was an out of wedlock baby--mom tried to get pregnant on purpose because she wanted to marry my dad. In 1960's, that's what you did when you got pregnant. Poor guy did the "right thing" and married my mom. He did not love her but did it out of a sense of duty. He wanted a boy badly ( he did not value girls ) and I was not a boy. I believe my mom was very disappointed that I was a girl and let me know early on. Second child was a boy and he got the attention. I cannot remember 1 time being hugged by this women. Most times it was obvious she did not even like me.

Fast forward, I'm 42 with a great husband and 2 great kids. I have a very superficial relationship with my mom. I live 8 hrs away by car and see her infrequently but I call her almost daily. ( she never calls me ) If her S.O is present when I call, she makes it very clear in a nonverbal way that she doesn't want to talk to me--I get the hint and say goodbye. ( my dad died 18 yrs ago ) I usually feel like a pain when I call her but call I do. I guess I just couldn't bare to think that my mom doesn't love me and I just went along in my fantasy world.

Last week, I had a suspicious mole removed from my arm that was thought to be melanoma. I called mom to tell her and her first question was " What did it look like ?" I got the feeling she was wondering if perhaps she might need to look for this type lesion on herself--it was an odd question. When I began to answer, she interrupted and told her SO in the background that she had my sister's boots in her suitcase ( she was just visiting my sister ) and she chuckled! I was heartbroken that she didn't seem to care about my biopsy. I said talk to you later, she never asked another question and we hung up.

I'm not even mad but so heartbroken and disappointed. It is the first time in 42 yrs that I actually realized that my mom could care less about me ( even though I always knew it on some level ). I haven't talked to her since just cause I don't even know what to say or how to handle this. I told my sister of my disappointment and I know she told mom and mom tried to call me yesterday a few times and I didn't pick up. I'm heartbroken. If my child told me she was sick in anyway, it would be my utmost concern. I don't know why I'm posting other than I am so sad and just need to get it out. I have decided I will concentrate on my own family where I know I am loved. It still hurts, though. Thanks for reading.

[SeptemberMorn]

Pammie, I understand. I experienced the same thing, basically, but it didn't hit home until after my mom died.

Other experiences in my life have brought me to believe that I don't want to force myself on anyone or demand anything emotional from anyone. I'll take what is freely given. Why bang my head on a brick wall and hurt myself more than another person is already hurting me?

My best to you.

i had one of those moms..........i'm sorry that she's treating you this way.........love, pat

[pammie]

Sept and Pat, Thanks for reponding.

How did you handle it? Should I cut off contact? I can't even bring myself to call her ( remember, I called almost daily ) not because I'm mad but because I am desparately hurt. I am at a loss.

She, by the way, has not called me wondering why I haven't been calling.

pammie
I'm sorry your mom is that way towards you--- mine is very much the same.

When I've had illnesses she's found ways to blame me for them--- like when I had gestational diabetes it was my fault because I was too thin before I got pregnant. I don't understand either how a mother can seem to care so little..... I will never be to my kids the way she has been to me-- and it sounds like you aren't like your mom either-- that's something that you can feel good about yourself for.

Through the years I've learned to converse with her like a distant aunt-- it's hard because I would love to have someone to lean on- a real mom. Like now when I'm struggling with issues with my boys and my marriage--- I know she's not ever been there for me and never will be.

After my dad passed away-- 14 years ago-- I called her a couple times a week to check on her as she was living in the house alone--- one day she told me, if she needs me SHE will call ME...... I got the "message" and to this day I rarely call her-- not even if things are falling apart for me.

But hey-- I'm here listening and I understand, so if you want a shoulder to lean on -- post anytime-- K?

pammie-

[pammie]

Thanks Mandy, You are very kind. One thing I learned from my mom is how not to parent--I am a kind and loving mom and I value my two kids more than anything.

I have wished most of my life that I had a real mom who loved me--this is not to be.

My mom essentially tells me the same thing your mom did--don't call me unless it's suits me--just in a nonverbal way. I don't think I can ever go back to the same relationship as before--I guess I have some dignity after all.

[SeptemberMorn]

Pammie, I've adopted a couple of moms along the way. But somehow I wind up taking care of them the way I used to take care of my mom. That's not what I need. I was blessed enough to find a soul sister. She's the one I go to when I need some guidance and support. She never fails me.

We can't choose our family, but we can choose our friend and make them "our family."

[Dr_Cher]

Hi there Pammie!

Let me start by explaining that, while my name is Dr_Cher, I am not... repeat NOT a therapist. Please do not take anything I am about to say as if it were coming from anyone or any place other than the heart of a fellow mother / daughter / nana. Okay? Okay!

That said. We could be sisters! Wow. I am so sorry you have experienced this, too. I'm a little older than you but my mom was of the same generation as your mom and had pretty much the same mind set -- could it be cultural?!?

Indeed, my mom managed by pawning us all off on relatives and friends as much as she could. I think that generation was very self-centered. Not that that makes it okay, it's just an observation.

What helped me most was learning to see my mother as a wounded woman. While her own wounding does not give her free rein to wound others - not by any means - it does help me to understand how she got to where she was.

I learned that I can have compassion for her wounds and I can forgive her wounding me, without feeling the need to subject myself to continued woundings. At least that is where I finally got to twenty-five years ago. I can respect her. I can love her. I can have compassion for her.... AND I have to do the same for me. Does that make sense?

If we were sisters, what I'd say to you is this: You are a big girl now. As the saying goes, put your big girl panties on and deal with mom! ((((smile)))) Talk to your mom. Tell her how you feel. Tell her she hurt you.

Remember, you do not have to accept lame excuses in order to forgive her. AND, for her sake and for yours, you need to set some boundaries with her that support your own dignity as a daughter, a mother... a woman!

You will notice that the term boundary is NOT a four letter word! You might also notice that, healthy boundaries are best embroidered into awareness allowing some flexibility without dissolving or breaking -- boundaries etched in stone tend to be brittle and harsh if you catch my meaning.

You deserve your own support in your efforts to grow and heal. Don't let you down! AND... your mom deserves the opportunity to grow and become a better person. IF you choose to let her know how you feel and how you were hurt by her apparent lack of concern, she will have a grand opportunity to contemplate her approach.

If she chooses not to, it is her problem - don't make it yours. Your only problem -- if it is one -- is finding the strength to respect yourself enough to respect her human-ness enough to not get in the way of her opportunity to grow! Does that make sense?

If you had hurt someone, wouldn't you want to know? Wouldn't you want to have the chance to grow? I would. Of course, I also think you gotta tell your mom yourself how you feel, and not count on your sister. It might help to write out your thoughts, first. Or maybe have a trusted other role play with you. I find it helpful talk to talk to my bathroom mirror -- it helps me sort out possible projections!!!

In any case, get to a place of confidence and calm and then tell you mom how you really feel! Be prepared to hear her -- really hear her -- and respect her position and still... set some healthy boundaries with yourself and with her.

Again... it worked for me. It may or may not work for you. It is just an idea to consider. That's all.... like that. See?

[seeker1950]

This is a great response, Dr Cher.
I am 56, with an 80 year old mother. I have done much of what you have suggested already, over many years. The only think I cannot do is talk to her about any hurts. Out of the question, so we relate on a superficial level, and that is how it will remain forever. Now, as she is elderly and frail, she would not be able to deal with me telling her anything in the way of how she abused me all thru my years at home from infancy on. I do see the wounded woman, who grew up the eldest of 5 children in a coal camp in MIngo County, WV, the brunt of abuse herself. I see the young, insecure girl who disliked herself, tearing her face from pictures at that teenage time, unable to graduate from high school because of her insecurities, not lack of ability or intelligence. I see all of this, with the knowledge that I was hit, spanked and switched with a branch daily while growing up, usually not knowing why. So it is hard for me to feel compassion oir closeness to her, though she wants that now, pretending we are a loving family.
In my mid 30's a therapist told me I had been abused as a child. It had never occurred to me till then.
As years have passed, and I have dealt with this and the repurcussions of it, I've emotionally detached from my mother, though I still make the occasional phone call. I haven't been to visit her in person since last Christmas, and will make the trip once again this year.
My point is: at some point one has to start taking care of oneself.
Patty

i detached as much as possible from mine for self protection.

my children saw her a lot and when they turned 12/13, she started treating them the way she had treated me. then when she became incapacitated, my daughters were the only grandchildren who took off work and school and would go stay a week at a time and care for her. i tried to teach them that she was "ill" and that all we could do was help out and then go our own way.

the end of her life came and i moved back home and lived with her until she died, caring for her as she had cared for me when i was a small child.

everything changed and she became grateful and more loving. of course, i still had the same wounds that she had inflicted upon me while i was growing up but i just tried to picture her as "my child".......

[pammie]

Dr Cher, You have given me food for thought. Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'm sure my mom has had her fair share of being wounded but I cannot see that right now.

My mom is responsible for many of my wounds ever since I was born. I know I am responsible for myself now. Even though I am in my 40's, I can truly say that my denial system has been stong up until the incident I described with the skin cancer. In all my years, I have never realized so crystal clear, how my mom feels about me. I know I should figure out a way to have a relationship with her but I'm not ready to do that yet. I am still processing the whole thing. I'm just so damm sad about it. I just have to be where I am right now. I'll figure out what to do in time.

How can mothers be like this?

please don't beat yourself up over this...........i was middle aged before i could stand being around my mother even for short periods of time.

[Wants2Fly]

Hi Pammie --

My situation was much the same as all of you have described.

Then, in 2003, when my life fell apart, my therapist taught me some things to say to set boundaries with my mom and instruct her respectfully about what is supportive and what isn't.

The weird thing is that even thought the woman is 82, she actually stopped being so accusatory. We will never have a huggy feely touchy relationship, which is sad for both of us because it leaves us both with an emotionally impoverished lives. But it is soooo much better.

But for many many years, I had to self-protect myself in whatever way I could, including living far away from her and keeping contact to a minimum.

It's still only a weekly phone call, but I don't hate it and I know I am going to miss my mom very much when she is gone, instead of being relieved, like I always figured I would be.

Good luck with this.

[pammie]

Thanks Fay and Wantstofly,

Wants, I think that is what I need to learn--healthy boundaries with my mom. I won't let her hurt me anymore--just have to figure out how to do it. I'm tired of playing the game--just tired of it.

[pammie]

Follow up:

I have not been able to bring myself to contact my mom since my first post. She called at Christmas but I avoided that call. I'm avoiding my whole family. We are a very dysfunctional family to begin with but I have never really realized how bad we were until the conversation with my mom regarding my arm lesion. It was a true moment of clarity when my denial system was shattered and I saw things as they truly were.

I'm not mad ( maybe a little ). I don't miss the phone calls and I don't care if I ever talk to her again ( won't happen because I have kids ). Don't know what to do. Thank God I live far away from her--it makes cutting off contact so much easier.

Can one really divorce their mother?

[Perna]

Pammie, since you do have to eventually talk to your mother again for your kid's sake, it might be easier the sooner it's done so so much time and "silence" doesn't get in there making it even more difficult to think of things to say?

Were I you, I'd call my mother rather than pick up when she calls you, that way you have the high ground. I'd be "angry" and tell her exactly why you haven't called so there's no mistake and so you cannot be thought of as "sulking." My stepmother would probably accuse me of being "too sensitive" but you have lots of examples to back up your point of view it sounds like. Being "attacked" in such a way probably will make your mother defensive but hey, she'll know where you stand and you will have cleared your half of the air with where you are. She can know for sure how you feel/have felt and maybe you can get a different sort of adult start to a relationship, not based on mother/daughter so much since she messed that up but on two adult acquaintances?

I remember that talking to my stepmother about her childhood helped me some. Do you know any of your mother's stories? My stepmother turned out to be a lot like me. She had three brothers (so do I) who teased her (but she was oldest and I'm youngest) and hearing some of the pranks they played on her and what she was like as a girl helped me see her in a different light, unrelated to me at all. Seeing the longer/wider (she would have been 91 last week) history helped me see my own life in its whole history too and how much of it is not related to her.

[pammie]

Thanks Perna for your kind reply. I think you are right about calling her first--I just don't feel strong enough quite yet.

[Wants2Fly]

Pammie -- This isn't likely to help you with your situation, but an old wound just came bubbling to my mind -- something my mom said to me some 40 years ago!

I'd had an auto accident that almost killed me. I rolled a car that landed on its roof, then righted itself in the snow. A passerby stopped, and his first words were a stunned, "You're alive?! I didn't expect to see anyone getting out of that car."

A state trooper drove me to a Thruway toll station to call my mom to come get me. (Way before cells phones.) My mom's first words, "What did you do to that car?" which was brand new.

Not, are you okay? I'd gotten more care and concern from a complete stranger. These wounds cut deep -- but things can get better -- in time.

I think you are doing a fabulous job of managing this.

i think some of our moms were separated at birth.

[Wants2Fly]

Pammie -- I learned how to set boundaries by working with counselors, learning to monitor my body responses, use words carefully, and give praise as mom changed.

The specific words we use are quite important. They can set a boundary politely, so that progress can be made, or they can set up a "get back, stay away from me" situation.

One of my therapists even taught me to praise me mother lavishly when she gave me the right kind of support that I needed. It has been a big learning experience for me, and apparently for my mom. During my recent years of trouble, she has been the most supportive person behind me, the only person I can count on. Quite a difference from "What did you do to that car?", eh.