Loving someone with "NPD"...help?

How does one go about doing this?

Ok, I know that seems like a simple answer "you just do". And it's true, I do. I didn't mean to fall in love in this case, not at all. By the time I realized that there was an "issue" I was already too far gone. It happened fast and hard for me. I'm really struggling with it because I don't really want to "let go" but a big part of me tells me I should (and everything I've read on the internet).

To be clear, he hasn't (that I'm aware of) been formally diagnosed with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) so I can't swear that he has it. That said, I'm almost positive that he does. I know that I'm not licensed to diagnose someone with such things, but his personality traits meets almost every single one of the traits that come along with NPD, as a matter of fact- I was somewhat relieved when I read the articles I read (mostly in psychology publications) because I was starting to think I was going out of my mind. It felt like he was REALLY playing "games" with me and I couldn't decide why he tells me he cares, but acts another way.

Basically, my question is this: If I do suspect he has NPD and I know I can't change him...is there anyway I can stick around anyway? Or should I run for the hills? (please note, it's too early in our relationship for me to mention this to him or suggest he get some help.)

Please don't think I'm bashing anyone who has this disorder. I am sympathetic/empathetic to anyone who has ANY kind of struggle. I have plenty of my own, but I also have to look out for myself and my own sanity.

Any input or advice?

I grew up with an undiagnosed but definite NPD father. So did my boyfriend. If you stick with this guy and he remains untreated, please don't have kids with him, especially if he has substance abuse issues.

Which characteristics does he have?

OMG! I am so happy to see that there's someone else in my boat. Well, I'm not happy that you're dealing with a similar hell to the one I'm in but I'm happy I'm not alone. I have been reading about NPD and I swear, my boyfriend fits the bill on about 90% of the characteristics. But then he's a total opposite of a couple of the symptoms. So that's weird. But really, I'm looking forward to following this thread because I am literally at the end of my rope and I don't know what else I can do with my current situation. I hope someone has some helpful insight.

Good luck to you, girl.

I say run for the hills. The thing about NPD is that MOST are never diagnosed because most would never admit that anything is wrong and submit themselves for treatment. Its sort of the catch-22 of the disorder.

Please RUN. You can't fix him and he likely won't work on it himself. My dad has a friend who married an NPD and 2 of their 3 kids are NPD. My grandfather and mother have many NPD traits (but fortunately all 3 of my siblings escaped getting the disorder ourselves). It is a b**** of a disorder, and it will destroy many areas of your life.

In my experience, narcissists can't really love another. I am still recovering from the lack of love that I will never get from my mother. And empathy? That's pretty much out the window, too.

Please, for your own sake, get out now.

If you need more advice, you can always read up on NPD on out of the fog. I'm sure you'll find a few strong opinions on the matter over there.

You can stay in this relationship if you are okay with words but not actions. The old saying, "Actions Speak Louder Than Words" are never truer than with this sort of person.
If you can live with being an accessory in someone else's life, an after thought, a block to be checked.
Can you find the strength Never to Really Matter, but to be all of the above and then less?
These are the "talk the talk" guys. The fact that you have actual feelings does not honestly occur to them, but they make sure you know they have feelings. These is the sort who are expert manipulators and will do it as long as you let them. But, sadly, when it stops working, they will be bewildered, not sure why their usual M. O. stops working.

Since you have not been with this person long enough to address it with him, and oh, by the way, it wouldn't matter if you were with him 2 years or 10, this is a message that will not be heard. There really are people who do not have empathy and it is this person.

I would have to agree that you are too valuable, have too much to give and way more to offer someone who is more compatible.
If you want to explore ways to discover who that might be, take every bit of psyco-babble you can stand, from the Meyers-Briggs personality test to astrology, and then Get Out!
As to your broken heart, it will heal. Time does heal enough to move forward. It is best (and I speak from experience) if you go cold turkey, cut off all contact, don't look back, and have a plan in place, a friend to call, a place to go, when you have those weak moments that you inevitably will have.
Sorry for the pain you are about to experience, but it Will Be Worth It if you learn how to recognize and never return to this sort of person.

I agree to run. If it is too early in your relationship to mention therapy, then it is too early to feel guilt or remorse for breaking it off. You can do much better.

Hi I am a newby to this site so am taking the time to read other peoples post, I am amazed so many people are here and this is such a HUGE problem around the world, BUT I have been uneducated for 35 years and I truly am at a place where I need to make myself Number 1 and whole again... this is going to take time and at 54 it dosnt leave much space for encountering a so called normal loving equal relationship, so be wise in what you choose for yourself, life is so short and each day, week, month & year is so precious... don't let yourself be robbed of love, joy, happiness, empathy, encouragement, support and respect, if your loved one doesn't make you feel WHOLE... let go, step back and ask YOURSELF do I sacrifice my self worth for someone that cannot SEE me ... goodluck on your journey... please keep reading posts on PC and hopefully the insight of others will be liberating for you... now just breathe

Thank you all very VERY much! You all confirmed what I saw (but didn't really want to see) I'm currently in the process of trying to "dig myself out" of the whole thing. Problem is, he's the first person I've felt this strongly about in many years. I have a deep affection for him. I can't quite figure out if it's real or if he's "done something" to make me feel this way. Head games or something. I've never been so frustrated/angry with someone, while still feeling like I'm in love with them. It's awful. Doing the right thing for me is awful, even though I know it's what I have to do. But yes, I'm working on it. Again, thanks so much.

Unless you want a life of him always being right and you never getting just respect,caring and love . You need to just remove yourself from this relationship now. Yes it will hurt, But why subject yourself to a fraud of a relationship ? NPD's never care about anyone but themselves.

You deserve love ,caring and respect from someone capable of giving you that.

I wish you well

I've been where you are and I do have to agree, getting out of the relationship is really the most healthy thing for you to do. Before you get so involved that 'getting out' is almost more painful that staying.

I don't agree that N's can't love but what they perceive as 'love' holds none of the empathy that 'non's think of, when they feel love. The 'love' they feel is a reflection of what you show them, you believe. As long as you give them that view, they will keep you, but eventually, they WILL devalue you, and move on, gathering you back up only if they cannot find a suitable, or more exciting replacement. That sounds harsh, but it's clarity you need to accept.

And its not that they refuse to admit they don't need help with their world view (they, mostly, by a certain age are aware there is something a little off in the way they see life as apposed to those around them); they simply don't see that there is anything wrong with them or how they act around others.

The cliff-note on this is that what a person with NPD does is a defense mechanism built up over years, so for the most part how they treat other people is not intentional. That said, how they treat other people can be horrible, painful, and crazy making. So my advice is to get out, no matter how you feel at the moment. Yes, N's deserve to be loved (and its the very fact that they were devalued at an early age--either thru too much attention to what they could be rather than who they were, or extreme emotional neglect, among other childhood abuses) but unless you've already dug yourself into this, I suggest for you....just walk away. He won't make it easy, but later, it will feel impossible, and you will be wounded deeply.

I also suggest you go to the NPD forum (don't post, please, it is a forum for them) and read what is posted there. Several of the N's in that room will offer insight in their posts you cannot get in other venues....you may even recognize, from their descriptions of themselves and what they experience, your bf. Again, please don't post, but do read. It is an insightful forum and I think will better inform you of what you're facing or will face, than I could, or anyone could who doesn't have NPD.

Take care....

waiting4 ~ That was eloquent! Yes to everything you said.

And in my case, I also discovered a unique and dead-on correlation of behavior with my NPD friend and his ACoA status. While it garnered some quiet sympathy & more understanding on my part, this person was/is too far into himself to Ever come out. His line was, "everyone leaves me eventually". But I made sure he understood that it was His foot in my back, pushing me out, and that I would never close that door, it would always be open a crack if he made the effort to open it. And he did just that, only to slam it shut once again when he got the affirmation he needed. We stay on the outer edges of each others' lives, and That is the way it has to be for me.
Pity. I adored him and would have done anything to ease his pain. Oh well.

This is my very first post in these forums (hi everyone!!) been "lurking" around here for a couple weeks, and your post is the first I've felt really compelled to respond to.
My advice: girl, RUN FOR THE HILLS!
Seriously. What everyone else said here is totally right.
You probably feel strongly about him because NPD folks can be soooooo charming at first. Yeah, they make you feel good...you know what else will make you feel good? Heroin. You know what heroin and narcissists have in common? They both make you feel great one second only to leave you feeling like total hell the next; and they are both addictive in they're own way. As someone who's done both heroin and an NPD boyfriend, I can tell you that the two experiences have some eerie similarities. This man's charm is most likely an illusion, do not be fooled, do not become addicted to him, it will suck you dry!
I was in a relationship with a narcissist for two years. This man completely broke me down and just kind of sucked the life out of me.
Narcissists tend to lack empathy. This man will probably never be able to sympathize with you and give you proper support when you need it. On the contrary, YOU will probably find yourself constantly having to take care of his needs, because in his mind it's all about him. Should you find yourself unable to care for him, and tell him no you can't help him with something, there is a great chance he will respond with anger and "guilt tripping" you. If you're anything like me, you may find yourself feeling worthless and guilty about things which you really shouldn't feel guilty for. When you get involved with someone like this you are putting your happiness, self-esteem and general well being on the line....and NO MAN IS WORTH THAT!!!!!
The good news is, there REALLY ARE some great men out there! Guys who are not narcissists, who will give you the love you truly deserve. These men may be hard to find, but keep digging and stay patient, you'll find him!
I know how much it can suck to be single, but it's still a lot more fun than being in a bad relationship. Don't ever settle for anything less than your dream man.
And most importantly, you need to fall in love with YOURSELF before you can fall in love with another person. It's not always easy, but you can do it
Love and light to you!!

If it's too early in the relationship to suggest therapy.....then it's too early in the relationship to KNOW that you are in love with this person.......lust...infatuation yes, but NOT LOVE......love grows with knowing the person & with bonding.

I had issues with the person I married before we got married (Not NPD....but just a few months ago, with research, I have found out what I was dealing with for all those years & what was bothering me even before I stupidly didn't listen to my gut feeling & NOT GET MARRIED)

People NEVER CHANGE......you can almost be guaranteed of that especially if they like the way they are & there is no incentive to change.....& some things like my situation....this person was like that all his life but it was before any diagnostics existed for what was causing the problems in our marriage.

I don't think it's a rule of thumb to RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.....but if there are things about them that ARE BOTHERING YOU before you are in a long term relationship.....it will only get worse. If your gut feeling it telling you that there are serious things going in that you don't like....listen to those gut feelings & call it quits NOW. Gut feelings are always something that NEED TO BE LISTENED TO. I learned the hard way.....& then for a time there felt like there was no escape & my depression got so bad, there were many times I was willing to end my life just to get out......all because I didn't listen to my gut feeling.

Well said, EskieLover!
Yes, if your gut is telling you this now, it's a big ol' red flag alert!!!
Ending things with this guy now may not be the easiest thing for you...it will hurt a lot, but the pain will be nothing compared to the pain you'll feel if you drag things out. Don't wait for the ***** to hit the fan, do it now, fast and quick, like ripping off a bandaid.
Here's what to expect: the first month or so after ending things you might feel really down, which sucks a whole lot; but after a little while those sad feelings pass, and you'll probably find yourself with this huge feeling of liberation, independence, and freedom...like an "I am woman, hear me roar!" Kinda feeling! Obviously I can't guarantee those results, seeing as I don't know you and don't know all the details of your situation, but that's been my personal experience in a few relationships, and a lot of my friends have experienced the same thing.
You can do it, girl! You can do it!!!!

Thank you all, again! This isn't someone I just met, but someone from my past (Side note - we were not romantically or sexually involved back then.) Everything all of you said about charm and such, all the truth. I like the one description about Heroin...how you feel great one second and completely miserable the next. This is exactly how it is. I find myself constantly looking for an answer to his behavior and he's not going to give me that. In reality, I already have my answer I suppose. I've never felt so crazy in my life. I was Married to the wrong person for a few years. Recently divorced. I found it easier to walk away from my Marriage than I do this situation. I also ever felt this "crazy" in my Marriage (and believe me, it wasn't a good relationship.) It's almost like his emotions and disorder is affecting the way I see myself. It's awful. I try and walk away and I keep going back (if even just a little.) I'd like to share the conversation we had yesterday...maybe it will give you all a little insight as to what I'm dealing with, and you can tell me what you think about it. Does this sound like someone with NPD to you?

Me: Dare I ask if you have plans this evening?
Him: I'm working till late, then I plan on passing out.
Me: lol Alright.
Him: work is hell right now.
Me: All the more reason to have a beer after work, but clearly sleep is more appealing.
Me: I'm really trying to be sympathetic but I've been up and at work since 6am. Don't act like an old man
Him: Um, I'm not.
Me: Old men go to bed early on a Friday night.
Him: Friday is not my Friday, it's just another day. Sunday is my Friday.
Me: I'm messing with ya, (insert his name here). However, this is my final attempt to sped time with you. Clearly you're a busy and preoccupied person.
Him: However...
Me: It's a shame, but such is life I suppose.
Me: And you can't ever say I didn't try. Am I wrong?
Him: Good talk.
Me: Dude, Seriously?
Him: Dude...Seriously.
Me: Please don't be an ***. You have to understand where I'm coming from.
Him: I do understand. I'm not being an ***.
Me: Seems like it.
Him: I'm not, I just can't respond in a way that's not going to precipitate a defensive reaction from you.
Me: I'm not trying to fight with you. I'm just confused by the things you say as opposed to the way you act.
Him: I'm just saying I understand.
Me: I can appreciate that, but can you please explain why you say one thing and act in a completely different way?
Him: Apparently, I have a problem with that. I've heard it my entire life. From Friends, Family etc.
Me: Yes you have a problem, it's called lack of real interest.
Him: That isn't true. Please don't make that assumption.
Me: I'd say it's a pretty educated assumption.
Him: I understand, but I do not agree with you and you shouldn't assume such things.
Me: I'm trying my best to understand you here, but you're not making it easy for me.
Him: I'm under a lot of stress at work.
Me: I'm sorry you're under a lot of stress. I told you that you can talk to me about it. I've told you that you can lean on me a little, you just don't seem to want to fully "let me in"
Him: I've heard that from a lot of folks, too. "Let me in"
Me: I'm not "a lot of folks" I'm just being myself and as genuine as I can be. We've had this same conversation so many times now. I don't understand why you won't just tell me you're not interested in this anymore. It's ok, really.
Him: Because I do not agree with you, so I'm not going to say that.
Me: your actions say it.

And it went on like that for a long time. It really went nowhere. That convo may not scream NPD at you, but that's just one of the conversations. There was another time when I told him I was done with him (so on and so on) and he was COMPLETELY able to turn the entire conversation around on me...to the point where I was almost apologizing...when I KNEW I wasn't wrong. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how he did that...but after I've read these comments and some of the articles...it makes some sense. He's always the victim. No matter what happens, he didn't do anything wrong and it's never him.

ughhh. And as you can see from that conversation...I'm still pushing at it. For some reason it feels impossible for me to just let it go. I don't know why and I've never been in this position. It's really starting to feel like an addiction. It's awful. There's a quote I came across recently...it's really very fitting. It says "Staying in a situation where you are being mistreated or disvalued isn't called being loyal, it's called breaking your own heart." So true. I just want to stop breaking my own heart. I'm so confused.

Hi there. Hope you don't see my comment as unsupportive because it's not my intention to invalidate your feelings and challenge your assumptions. After all you are the only one who actually knows the guy. I just wanted to say that from the convo you posted he does not come across as NPD. He does sound emotionally unavailable though. I noticed that he tried to be very polite and gave you a straight up answer as to why he didn't want to meet. I personally would not push beyond the first suggestion to get together. It is not unheard of that the person who works unusual hours needs to go to bed early Friday night. I wouldn't call my friend an old man for feeling tired either. Again, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to upset you here, but to me your responses came across a bit too high maintenance. It's not a very attractive trait. Not being able to take no for an answer isn't either. If I were your bf I'd be upset by your lack of understanding and an apparent attempt to make him run on your schedule. If I wanted someone to open up to me I'd ask some questions about what's bothering him and if he didn't want to talk I'd leave it at that. It's not very conducive to letting person in if he openly demands it on many occasions. How do you rate your interpersonal skills in general? In conclusion. My uneducated guess is, you are more into him than he is into you at this point. But he clearly likes you and if you don't push too hard you might work.I don't think he is NPD since there was nothing in that convo which would come across as manipulative or attention seeking he just didn't want to see you.

I can absolutely appreciate your response. I'm thinking I picked the wrong conversation to use as an example. I wasn't always like that with him. Not at all. For a long time I put up with a lot. And then...it turned into conversations like that last one. He told me "I think you're funny and intelligent and beautiful and capable...and I absolutely want to get to know you more. I want to spend time together." That was probably 3 weeks ago. In that same conversation he stated that he would text me the next day. He did not. He also stated that we should get together Monday or Tuesday...when I asked him about it...he had excuses as usual. I had a very important thing happening...he asked me to text him right after I was done...when I did this , he didn't answer me. He cancels plans...and if I get even slightly irritated about it...he acts like I'm attacking him. Everyone else is always wrong...he's better and more intelligent than everyone (according to him) And all the Drama he has in his life (and it's a LOT) is because of other people and not him. He's constantly telling me how much he cares...that he doesn't want to stop hanging out...but then he acts completely opposite. If I bring up a valid point, he gets angry and turns it into my problem rather than his. He can literally manipulate me into apologizing for something I know I'm right about. So as I said...I should have included a more valid conversation. But trust me, he's not as polite and understanding as you might think.

That doesn't sound like fun at all! I'm sorry you are so unhappy. To me it still doesn't look like NPD or any other personality disorder. He sounds like an aloof emotionally unavailable guy who says stuff he thinks you want to hear to avoid confrontation. But in reality he is not that interested. Taking responsibility for your mistakes is a sign of maturity. If he hasn't mastered it yet he is probably still immature and not a good relationship material. How old are you both, if you don't mind me asking? If he is in his mid twenties early thirties he might just not be ready to settle down yet. If I were you I wouldn't contact him anymore and wait for his move. If he never tries to call you, forget about him.

Hmm. Yeah, I'm not sure. He really does have a lot of the characteristics (as per psych publications and forums) I can't swear he has it, but I'm pretty sure he has some sort of emotional issue. You're correct, I do not think he's grown up. He's actually in his mid 30's I'm in my early 30's. If he hasn't grown up yet, it's not likely he will. I know I need to stop contacting him. I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with ME. like I keep swearing to myself that I'll wait for him...3 says passes and I contact him. It's awful. It's like I'm afraid if I don't do it...neither will he...but I guess that's a good thing in the long run. If he's not going to do it, that's not something that I really want anyway. Ughhh. It's so awful. I was in a relationship for 8 years (married for 3) I haven't felt this way about anyone in a LONG time. He's also the first person I was..uhm..."with" after ending my marriage. I'm thinking that is where a good deal of my attachment lies. I just don't understand why he WILL NOT tell me he's not interested. Why won't he just say it?? He's not really the type to worry about hurting someone's feelings (in this type of situation) so that's not it...I just can't figure it out. I guess I need to just STOP trying to figure it out. Just wish it was easier. I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach.

Hey there. If you want my honest opinion, I think you are just on the rebound. You need someone to admire you, to make you feel loved. And this guy looked like a good candidate, so you got attached. But I really don't think you will miss him for too long. Just push beyond those three days. Don't call him, don't text him. As the fourth and fifth day pass you will feel like you have finally succeeded.

On the side note, in my experience if a guy starts listing your positive qualities to you, he is not into you. He might like you and be interested in friendly relationship, but he does not see you as a romantic prospect. Please don't ask why I think so, I really don't have any scientific facts to back it up, I have just noticed this from my personal experience.

Non of the guys who really liked me, including my husband, ever called me funny, or intelligent. Some other jerks did though.

I can relate to a lot of the things you said.
Find a distraction - maybe a class you could take, a hobby to pick up, a fun group of friends to hang with, maybe even a support group like al anon (can be helpful for anyone with relationship issues, even if they're not the child/relative of an alcoholic). Just find something to keep you busy. That's the #1 thing that has NEVER failed me when trying to pull away from someone. I'm the exact same way when it comes to trying to leave but always running back. It's so masochistic in a way!
I think you need some time to be single and really get to know yourself. Sounds so cheesy, but it's true.
Just be patient and find yourself a good distraction, and pretty soon your mind will be off him - I promise!
I don't know you, but I like you. If we were in the same city I'd say we should meet up for a drink tonight. Haha!

The conversation that you provided just sounded like a person who has set his boundaries & needs some time to himself, knows his needs & isn't willing to be PUSHED into doing something that goes against his needs.

Intersting....I had a similar conversation with my stbxh back when we had first gotten married back in 1975. I had midterms & I knew that I needed to study long & hard for my tests because I wasn't willing to just get by with my grades the way my H had.....I didn't respect his attitude toward his college work so I wasn't about to lower my standards to go along with whatever he wanted......& he wanted to go to a Disneyland night. Think it was from a company that his brother was working at & had invited friends & family to come along.....I had my midterms & going to Disneyland wasn't something that was a novelty since I had been going there most of my life at least once a year.

I was looking out for MY NEEDS & I had set my boundaries...nothing was going to get in the way of my getting good grades at the university.

Well......fast forward to about 8 years (2006) ago in therapy with H & T.....30 years later to be exact......H brings up that I was such a controlling wife because I had refused to go with him to the Disney night & putting my grades & my midterms above the fun of going to Disneyland night with H was controlling.

Obviously each person has a different way of perceiving their behavior.

Trying to figure out the why's as to what it was about his behavior that caused me so much difficulty in the marriage & why by the end I was seeing red & had so much anger toward him, I was destroying myself.....I looked back......abusive marriage.....yes & no.....passive aggressive....yes & no.......his dx'ed adult ADD.....yes & no.....I even looked at NPD because of his arrogance that irritated the hell out of me......yes & no......there has actually only been one thing that I have come across that has explained it all.....something that I would have never guessed & something that wasn't even something that was Dx'ed back in the days we were growing up.....

But like I said before.....it really doesn't matter what the Dx is.....it's how much their behavior annoys you & bothers you & makes your own life miserable that should determine whether you go or stay.......& trying to make him into the person that you want him to be.....ISN"T reason to stay.

I agree with NormaD........being single & learning who you are without someone else in your life is the best thing that we can do for ourselves......only when we know who & what we are can we accept others for who & what they are & know the who & what's that are COMPATIBLE with outselves....& don't waste your time on those who don't fit that compatibility because people don't change no matter how much you wish or push....it only grows into anger on both parts.