Is my jealousy justified? And if so/not, how can I make it better?

This is a bit hard for me to write, because it's forcing me to really look at something that I think might destroy a relationship I cherish.

I'm having a really hard time with jealousy, and I'm not sure what to do. I'm starting to feel more anger and frustration in the relationship, and I'm not an angry person. Our relationship 95% of the time bright and full of laughter and warmth. I don't want it to change.

I've been dating my significant other for about a year. We're both quite serious, and she's an extremely committed person, and very family oriented. To be clear, I don't think there is a danger of her having an affair, but there is a relationship she has with an ex-boyfriend that I'm very uncomfortable with. I've tried to discuss this with her, and she says that I should understand that it's nothing, just the dynamic of a pretty unimportant friendship, and gets really frustrated by it. We've never really made it through the conversation on this without it turning into an argument. I don't feel validated in my feelings at all; I don't think she understands how much she's hurting me.

Ok, so the circumstance is that she has an ex-boyfriend. They dated for about 6 months three years ago. She ended it with him when she found out he was cheating on her, and it was never a very serious relationship to begin with. She says she never really even thinks of him as being a boyfriend, because it was never serious. He moved away, and then moved back near where she lives about a year ago, when she and I first met.

He is extremely flirtatious, from my perspective. He texts her comments about how he'd like to "take her to a dinner with Champaign and candle light" and that maybe he could talk her into one of her "special massages," afterwards. We were traveling in Japan, and her friend was visiting Africa, and when he got back he texted her, "Where is my welcome home kiss." This sort of thing. To her credit, she never responds to the sexual comments; she just sort of ignores them, and never says them herself. But she does respond to his invitation to the candlelight dinner, for example. Going out to dinner was important to their relationship and friendship. So he'll say, "I want to buy you candlelight dinner with Champaign, and maybe I can get one of your special massages," and she'll write back something like, "can't wait for that dinner." So she sort of reinforces it, but not directly.

What she does do is actively dismiss me as unimportant in her conversations with him. I don't know him, and have never met him, so this is all just me observing via the texts they exchange, which she has shown me. He'll text her something like, "What are you doing? Out with your boyfriend?" And she'll respond with something like, "Nope. No boyfriend here. Anyone you want to introduce me to? I'm looking."

To which he'll say, "You have a boyfriend!? If I had known you were looking I would have invited you over for a farewell kiss."

She'll respond with something like, "Nobody owns me."

We travel a lot, and have been to Japan, SF, Paris, and a few other places together this last year. She tells all her other friends about me, and I know most of the people that are close to her, but she always tells this guy that she's traveling alone when he asks if she's traveling with someone. He knows that she's dating me, knows that she comes and visits me (this is a long distance relationship), and makes references to me often, but almost like I'm a joke, and she always responds by dismissing me. For example, to him, she'd never say something like, "Yeah, we saw the Eiffel Tower and had a great time. I had a great time with him."

Additionally, they're drinking buddies. About once every 2 months, she goes to a friends party or another at a bar, and she will call this guy and invite him along. Because of the long distance relationship thing, I am not there most of the time to join, or I'm sure she would invite me, instead. Maybe she would invite us both, but she never has, probably because she knows I'm uncomfortable with him. Not sure. She will tell me after the fact that he was there, and sometimes makes it sound as if he texted her, when in fact she called and invited him. This doesn't happen very often, but last time they were out until 4 am., and she came home extremely intoxicated, calling her friend to make sure he got home OK (which she would do with any friend, to be fair). She is a caretaker by nature.

There's more, but it's much of the same. At the same time, I know how significant we are to her in all other aspects of her life. We've met each other's families, have good mutual friends in other areas. She has a son from a previous marriage, and I'm the only guy she's ever introduced him to. I believe that I our feelings for each other are genuine. It's just with this one guy. When I bring it up, she just says that she knows him, that's he's not flirting and is just joking around. She feels like I don't trust her.

I'm not sure how to deal with this. I feel as if it's fair for me to ask her at the very least to be consistent with me and her friends when talking about me, to not pretend like I'm insignificant to her to him, and not to others. I would feel strange telling one friend about her, and then pretending like she didn't exist to another, or existed but was temporary or casual. On the other hand, she says that part of the reason she lies to this guy is because it's not a really close friend, and she doesn't really trust him since he cheated on her. So they sort of joking-lie about relationships to each other? I'm not sure I really understand.

I do not feel it is appropriate for one person to control the other person's friendships, and I'm not jealous of anyone else in her life. I don't have issues with any other ex-boyfriends; just this guy because he's right here and a constant reminder that maybe I'm not that unique in her life. I have a hard time living up to my own ideals in this case. I did break down and ask if she would not go out drinking with him all night, if she wanted to hang out could it be over lunch or something. She hasn't gone drinking with him since, though not for lack of trying - they had something set up and they tried really hard to keep it, but the didn't meet up. She later pretended like he'd texted her and she'd just said she was out with friends and couldn't meet up.

I have tried a few ways to coup with this. I asked her that if it's unimportant, would she mind next time he texted her a sexual comment, to write back something like, "Hey, thanks. Real quick - you know I'm in a pretty serious relationship now, and I don't want to make him uncomfortable. Mind if we cut back on the suggestive jokes?" Or something like that. She said she would but didn't. I was hoping she could have the friendship that isn't based on either dismissing me or references to their past relationship.

So I asked her if she would mind just being very transparent about it, if it's just joking, to let me know when he's texting her and be very forthcoming about what's being said, so it doesn't feel like it is under the table. She said she would, but then deleted all his texts and has not once told me when he texts. If I ask, she'll tell me, but gets irritated by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm not used to being an angry person, but this is really starting to get to me. I'm trying really hard not to let this destroy what I'm feeling, but I think it's a real threat.

Thoughts? I'm hoping that an outside opinion will help me, either help me deal with my own emotions, or let me feel validated so I can let it go.

Thanks

Well I certainly would not like such behavior from my significant other.

It sounds like she has no interest in changing to accommodate you. It seems then that your options are to let go of her or learn to accept that she is going to communicate with this guy and hide it or mislead you about it.

Not really what I want to hear... curious if others agree. I might have to edit it a bit; I worry that I don't do a good job of talking about the unique things that she does that are very heartwarming, as well.

I'm going to respond based on only reading through to your 3rd paragraph.... (and unless you go on to say that something in these first three paragraphs is a lie, my opinion will stand).

I honestly don't believe that ex's are ex's for a reason, and once you break up with someone, you should leave this person in your past because of the potential for such a relationship to cause problems in your future relationships with a partner. (Of course, if kids are involved, it is indeed best to have a parenting sort of relationship for the sake of the kids, but nothing more.) Keeping an ex in your life, for any reason, is a recipe for disaster. I think that many people would indeed have some sort of jealousy issue or problem with a partner who refuses to move on from an ex completely. Why? Because someone has had a high level of intimacy with an ex, so the potential to slip up and fall back into a relationship is also higher. (Emotional affair?....yeah.)

Ok, so I just read the rest of your post....

This is TOTAL bs! Ok, here's what you need to know about women....Yeah, we know how to put a guy in his place when we don't *want* the attention, the comments, and so on.....What I'm trying to say is that there is some sort of pay off that she's getting from all of this. Maybe she likes all of the attention? Maybe she never fully got over him? Who knows. What I do know is that she's not putting your feelings first in all of this. She's completely disregarding you. I don't think I'd want a partner who has such wonky boundaries and allows other people to talk to her this way. I'm female and I would never accept a guy who would continue to let an ex talk to him so flirtatiously. Just joking? It isn't just joking.....nobody (and I do mean nobody) acts like that and says it isn't flirting, its just joking. Uhm, DUH, that's what flirting is, right? (Who is she kidding?) Yes, it is indeed flirting and if she won't put up boundaries with this guy....Watch out.

Toadally not okay with how she's disrespecting YOU and y'all's relationship.

If this person truly cared about YOU and y'all's relationship, she would not intentionally do things that she knows are inappropriate and upsetting to you.

I'd draw a line in the sand and give her two options ... She immediately ceases any and all contact with this "ex", or she hits the road ... Period!

Oh, and about that "you're too sensitive" thing ... Did she tell you this? ... Often people who are doing bad things to others will tell them this in order to create self doubt about one's own perceptions ... Don't allow this person to mess with your head like that!



Sincerely,
Pfrog!

Oh one more thought.....

I think perhaps that you're more serious about her than she is about you. If she was head over heels for you and totally committed then she wouldn't be going out drinking with ex boyfriends! I know that if I was head over heels for a guy (or even just smitten) then I wouldn't be wasting my time on anyone else. She may never cheat but that doesn't mean her feelings run that deep.

Yes, your internal guard dog is barking for a reason. Her selectively pretending that you do not exist demonstrates that she is not committed to your relationship. It sounds to me like she is playing with the emotions of at least 2 men. Her ex, and you. Have you ever heard about the "same zip code" BS? "If you live in separate zip codes, its not cheating if you go with someone else".

This dude doesn't sound like an ex to me. He sounds like another boyfriend.

Despite all of her wonderful qualities, staying out until 4 am drinking with her "ex" who lives closeby and she lies to you about is not a set of behaviors I would tolerate for a red hot minute.

When cheaters are in danger of getting caught, they destroy the evidence. Hello?

If she's been lying to you (and you have evidence of this, which you do), then what's to say she hasn't been lying to you all along?

Her unwillingness to engage in a discussion about your feelings, without it becoming an argument, demonstrates a huge red flag.

And so I ask: Why would you tolerate being treated this way?

Personally I'd tell her to go kick rocks down the road.

Ex's are trouble. Period. They have no place in a relationship unless it is as a co-parenting situation. The past is the past ... and it needs to stay there.

Once my wife and I got married her ex's started crawling out of the woodwork. At one point I explained that the next one that knocked on our door would be buried in the front yard. Then along came Facebook and here they came again.

My advice? Dump her. You don't deserve to have to deal with her old boyfriends in any fashion.

I know that the details seem sort of black & white; it's hard for me to come to terms with a bit because I could never see doing the same back. I value the past relationships I've had, but I also feel that they belong in the past. The things that needed to be said were said already, and I don't need to keep them around. They will only cause a hard time for the person I care about now.

But she is from a different culture, and never abandons anyone. Part of what makes her special is her infinite capacity to care for others. I believe she really and truly does not see her actions as flirtatious; she feels as if I am not really listening to her when she says it means nothing. In her culture, it's much more common for guys and girls to maintain close friendships. So, I think there is some cultural differences here, too, and I want to respect that.

Her inability to not be friends with past ex's has caused her troubles in the past. Every one of her significant relationships has at one point had a fight because of a conversation she had with a previous boyfriend. I believe she really does believe that when you find good people, you can be friends with them and should stand by them if needed. I want to be the one boyfriend that truly understands and accepts her, and in a way that includes accepting that she can maintain old relationships with exes.

Her unwillingness to give up on someone is one of her greatest qualities. She's one of the kindest people I have ever met, and - to me - seems somewhat naive in how she views his texts. She once worked herself to exhaustion for for two years to pay for her younger sister's schooling.

But it makes me frustrated, too - when I ask her how she would feel if I were doing the same, she says that of course she would be hurt. But that's because it's a new dynamic; in this case it's just how the friendship has always been, and I don't understand him, and that she knows he's just joking.

I have a hard time making it all add up. If it were really so unimportant, why would she be so unwilling to ask him to be less sexually suggestive? That seems like such a small request compared to the amount of hurt I'm feeling. So, I have to conclude that somehow it is important. I think she is afraid that I will leave her, and so she needs something insignificant that she can feel like she would be OK if it fell apart. But, that is causing us to fall apart, potentially.

Anyway... is there any way that I can address this that is not so extreme as breaking up? I hate, hate, hate feeling this way, but I do believe this girl is special. Is there anyone that sees her perspective in this, that can help me understand?

Thank you again. It helps to be able to talk about it without worrying about making her feel untrusted. She's never been able to understand that it's not even that I think she's likely to make a mistake with him - she says she's never gone back to an ex ever, and never would... but she doesn't understand that it feels like there are three of us in the relationship, and he's a constant reminder that what I'm sharing with her, well, that it's something that is not unique to me and her. I don't worry about ex-boyfriends much, except he forces me to think about it all the time, every time he comes up.

That's probably why she doesn't like telling me. She used to be more open about it, and I think I've sort of forced her into a corner, where she feels I am being unnecessarily paranoid.

Anyway.

Flip the tables on her like George from Seinfeld and break up with her before she gets a chance to break up with you. Drinking buddies with an ex says it all for me.

Call up an ex. Heck, call up any woman. Go out drinking with her until 4am. BE SURE TO DRUNK TEXT YOUR GIRLFRIEND! (Pics of you and the woman together are a bonus.)

If it's the end of your relationship, at least you'll know that she's playing with double standards. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

And please don't give me this cultural stuff. I think cultural sensitivity goes too far when we have to sacrifice our own standards for what we find acceptable in a relationship.

Jealousy is the art of counting someone else's blessings instead of your own.

Everything changes.

I don't think she cares. To be fair, jealousy begins and ends in us - not the other person. So in this sense, you are hurting you. In order for that pain to go away, it is my belief that you must accept that she has made a choice. Changing her behavior to accommodate your feelings is not going to happen. Can you accept that?

Ok, so the circumstance is that she has an ex-boyfriend. They dated for about 6 months three years ago. She ended it with him when she found out he was cheating on her, and it was never a very serious relationship to begin with. She says she never really even thinks of him as being a boyfriend, because it was never serious. He moved away, and then moved back near where she lives about a year ago, when she and I first met.

And from mine.

Absolute deal breaker for me. Obviously, not for you. Which is okay, but I think you have become a welcome mat.

It is my opinion that the reason that you are having difficulty living up to your own ideals in this instance is because you are basing your ideals on an ideal relationship. This is not an ideal relationship.

Let me tell you something about my relationship. I have been with my wife for thirty years. We've never had a fight or even a serious disagreement. While she is responsible for her own happiness and me for mine, never has a day gone by that I haven't asked myself, "What can I do right now to make her life happier?" And then I do it. It might be to get up and get us coffee right after I determined that I don't have the strength to get up and make myself a coffee. It might be agreeing five minutes ago to do a duet with her at a family gathering tomorrow. A duet? Seriously. I'd rather have a root canal. But the smile on her face when I rolled my eyes and said 'I'd love to' - made me love the idea.

Now with my wife, that kind of love and commitment is reciprocated. That means that even if she disagrees, the thought that she is causing me pain takes precedence over everything. And vice versa. We are Team Us. If I felt jealous over anything, no matter how trivial and unsubstantiated, she'd fix it. I never have by the way, nor has she - because we kind of go out of our way to let the world know how stupid in love we are every chance we get. Nobody even tries.

This is as reasonable a request as anyone has ever made. That she didn't is significant to me and, because you wrote this post, I'm going to guess that it is significant to you too - but you don't want it to be. You want it to mean something else and you're hoping one of us can frame this in a way that it might possibly mean something reasonable. I can't help you there. I don't think anyone will be able to.

I was trying my hardest to come up with some sort of devil's advocate spin on it, until I read that she deletes his texts. Sorry but she's playing you.

Agree 100%. I've got to ask, what culture are we talking about here?

If you want to accept that she can have sex with her exes that's totally your choice. Cuz that's where this is leading, if it isn't already happening now and you just haven't been there to discover it. I think there's a name for that kind of relationship actually. I'm not sure whether it would be defined as "cuckold" or "poly", but I know there's a term. And I want to emphasize that these kinds of relationships can work with consenting, informed adults. The problem is that you aren't being kept informed. So maybe you could ask her for 100% transparency, since that wouldn't require you to break up with her.

Yes I feel you are justified to a degree but Jealousy can turn into ENVY and that is a deadly sin my friend....And jealousy is the quickest way to drive your partner away without even trying. And that is the truth as plain as I can tell it. If you 2 cannot come to an understanding then part ways on good terms or you will drive her away hating you. And you will resent her as well regardless of whether you were justified in your jealousy or not. You are both wrong in your attitudes and behaviors...

Yeah, she may be nice and everything you say. A traveling companion. However, my flag went up when she told her ex that she's single and looking.

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AMEN!

that is a huge DUBYA TEE EFF hoycow ohhellno.

She is not even admitting to him that you EXIST in her personal emotional life. She's a cheat and a liar. End of.

She's also an a-hole, sorry. Asking this guy to hook her up with someone bc she's "looking"? Does that not tell you how "real" and "important" you are in her world? Jeezum Crow. Disrespect in flames, my friend. Wow.

Chyia, dumbfounded & gobsmcked

It makes total sense to me that you'd be very concerned.

I'm wondering if meeting this guy is possible? I know it would probably be uncomfortable if the three of you got together for a meal or drinks, but it could be enlightening. You might decide that there's really nothing to be concerned about.

I can't explain why your girlfriend is behaving the way that she is. I do know from experience that long-distance relationships are very difficult. Maybe you can try to figure out how your girlfriend would be behaving if you both lived in the same place.

You obviously love her very much. It seems worth taking the time to meet this guy to see if it helps your feelings any.

I hope that you find a solution.

i would not allow this to happen to me, and i used to think like her too, i thought ex's could be friends even if i was seeing a differrent guy. i learned otherwise because i never met a man that liked it. today i would say i was being selfish, which i was. i wanted to have my cake and eat it too. i hate to admit this about myself, but then i met the right guy and understood what it's all about. its take it or leave it. i say she should stop flirting with this guy because she should see how its hurting you and if she really cares, she'll let go of it.she is the one who has to make a decision. good luck

My opinion? Find a local gal to have the kind of relationship you want; in my opinion this woman is playing you. Culture my eye.

I'm traveling at the moment, so it's hard to respond quickly, but I appreciate all the replies. I'm reading them, and thinking about them (not entirely happily)... and will have to reply when I get off the road.

What is her cultural background? I'm trying to think of a culture where it's accepted for a woman to allow men to be sexually flirtatious with her when he's not her current partner but I can't come up with any.

The issue IMO is her bad boundaries. I don't think she's cheating in the traditional sense, but what she's doing is allowing someone that she's close with to not respect her current relationship and by adamantly refusing to set boundaries with him - for whatever reason - she is also disrespecting you and the relationship. What she's doing sends a message to you and to HIM that the relationship with you is not that serious, not that important to her, and that he has a chance with her. That might not be what she's intending but it's what I'd take it to mean.

I'm friends with most of my exes. Some closer than others, one I actually will go stay with for the weekend since she lives 3-1/2 hours away. She and I always had bad boundaries, being too flirtatious when we were with us. Eventually I realized that was not a great thing for either of us or our relationships. So I told her that we needed to stop being flirty. She respected me and we interact completely platonically now. Flirty is her personality, she flirts with everyone, but for me it was crossing a line and she had no problem stopping it. I am not one that would choose partners over friends, I don't like ultimatums, I believe we should have outside interests that don't include our partners and I don't think we should melt into one "person" when we are in a serious relationship. This is obviously really bothering you, and if she respects you and the relationship she will set the boundaries you ask her to set. If she doesn't, regardless of WHY, it's a problem.

Hi there,

I didn't read all messages, sorry if it is redundant.

Have you told her that this friendship is bothering you? I don't this it's right what she is doing, but maybe she is not aware that it is hurting you? For the record, I totally understand you - I would be feeling pretty bad if something like that was happening to me. It's a violation of trust in a way.

Also keep in mind that people are different. Me - I think I am a jealous kind, I would be very jealous if my husband had a female drinking buddy and so on and it would definitely affect our relationship big time. Others - depends. A friend of mine doesn't seem to feel a grudge when her bf is not coming home for the night, or comes back early in the morning. She says she trusts him.

She wants to keep the other guy hooked. It's an ego boost for her, she's playing games.
He flatters her, you get jealous.
Fun and attention for her. Not fun for you.
Now I'm older I'd give an utimatum lose the other guy. You are worth more.
Yeah I know it ain't that easy.

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