Online Dating, and the Negative Spiral

So I will just give fair warning that this is going to be a long post. I haven't been on here in months, but I feel like I'm spiraling today and I thought it would be best to start typing rather than sit at home alone with my thoughts. If you want to read it, thank you. You don't have to, but please don't be upset that it's long; I'm aware. I tried to condense it. I couldn't.

Backstory: I am single and 37, no kids. I've just graduated and am a healthcare professional, just started my dream job, finally got my ish together after several years of battling mental illness and making up for dysfunctional choices. I am (other than today) happy and content, but I would love to meet someone with whom to share my life. I've also done online dating many times in the past. Given my personality (I'm an INTJ if it matters) it's just not the ideal way for me to meet someone; the old-fashioned way has far less expectation. But the situations in which I can meet someone are practically nil and while yes I can get out more, that doesn't change the fact that I'm 37 and there are a lot less single people my age out there. So I figured I'd try OkCupid. It's not the best, but it's not the worst, and it's free.

The Guy: I've been on there about a month and a half. In January, I began communicating with a guy (J) to whom I almost didn't even respond because I didn't find his photos attractive. But his profile and eloquent message hooked me and I figured, why not? After email and text volley and a few unavoidable reschedulings, we were able to have our first date. Now, I will admit, I've been incredibly resistant. I was finding a lot of reasons to dismiss J. During our date, it was even worse. He expressed interest and wanted to see me again, even texting me that same night reiterating how much he'd enjoyed himself. I agreed to a second date though I was finding a lot of excuses, mainly that he does have some flags on the field that concerned me the main two being he is 40 and due to a job which required extensive travel, lives with roommates. He also alluded to a couple of expensive cars he no longer owned which he is still paying off. He does have a great job, is highly intelligent, he's got a kind, mellow, even-keeled temperament (which is what I think I like the most), and he's a huge geek, just like me. We have a lot of interests in common, and the more we communicate, the more we click.

Fast forward: I am a crazy person in relationships. I thought I had a lid on the fear of abandonment thing, but I don't. I get anxious, panicky, paranoid...I'm sure some of you know what I mean. Initially, when I wasn't sure about him and he was texting every day to say, "How are you?" I was like, ehhhh do we have to communicate every day? But when I started to get invested, I attempted to meet him where he was at. And then I exceeded that and became a little too communicative. I wanted to communicate about these red flags, figure them out before the second date, blah blah blah... and there were a couple of times when he would just *BOOM* drop the text conversation. And I know, I KNOW that's the way it goes. It doesn't bother me in any other circumstance. But in this one, I got paranoid, and I vocalized the fact that I was trying to communicate, trying to get to know, and I was upset. He handled it far better than I expected as in instead of dropping me like a stone, he continued and even opened up the dialogue. I told that while I am basically happy and solid otherwise, I am a crazy person in relationships and turn into someone I don't like, and am completely unfair to the other person. I said I didn't feel like I could put myself or someone else through it. After a bit of discussion, he said that he thought I was a really cool person and still really wanted to get to know me. I said okay, but I didn't want to do it with the premise of dating...let's get to know each other as friends first. (Thinking of course that we'd possibly move towards dating, because of course guys can always read our minds...ha.)

We shared a lot of fairly deep info in the subsequent week about ourselves, our pasts, and our families. We both have a lot of baggage and while we're a little road-weary we both seem to be pretty solid in spite of it which I think we admire about each other. We went out again this past Friday, had a fantastic time, were out until 4am just sitting in the car chatting. I was becoming smitten and thought we were on the same page. We hugged goodbye (same as the first date...I chose not to kiss him initially) and I finally let my guard down to hope that this was something that could really go somewhere. The next day, I was mildly flirting with him through text, and he wasn't responding the way someone who has the same interest would respond. There was a lot of, "You too ;-)" and etc. But I felt distinctly as though he was pulling away. By Monday, I was in full-blown paranoia mode. He wasn't communicating the same at all, and I found myself doing that thing where you become more clingy the more the other person pulls away. I'm not proud of it, but by Monday night, I texted a very long message that was probably more than a little demanding of his attention. I was eloquent and plain-spoken, but it was the timing that I felt was a little demanding, after he'd already said he'd had a long day.

The letdown: I told him that I felt I was probably in the wrong since I'd expected him to read my mind a little, but that in our recent communication and especially with our recent date, I'd grown to really like and appreciate him and I didn't want to just be friends, and I wasn't sure we were on the same page. He said that we were not. He said that he spent a lot of time thinking over the weekend and came to the conclusion that he needed to get his ish together before he went into a relationship. The things that I'd brought up as red flags for me he said really were things that he felt needed to be taken care of: he should have his own place because his roommates prefer he not have people over. My current apartment has paper-thin walls...see a problem? He is actively interviewing for a new job which may take him elsewhere (this is his biggest reasoning). He feels that the debt needs to be taken care of. I told him that while I didn't disagree with some of this, I don't think that all of it is a reason to avoid a relationship. I asked him to please be honest about what I may have done. We discussed overcommunication with texting, but he said that really wasn't a factor in his decision as that was something which could have been worked out. I told him I felt badly that he'd had to put up with some of my neuroses and BS and he said ias cliche as it is this truly was about him and not me. He said he thinks I am attractive, I am an incredible and very interesting person, and he still really wants to know me. He said that he just doesn't feel he has really put roots down anywhere, and he doesn't feel it'd be fair to put them in someone else's pot only to rip them out.

For the record, neither one of us is interested in casual, non-committed sex. I told him that I felt all of his points were valid, that it would be nice to hang out sometime but that I didn't want him to think he had to say he wanted to in order to spare my feelings; I'm not really that kind of girl. He owes me nothing. He can go. He said that he doesn't just say things like that; if he didn't want to, he would say he didn't want to.

The Spiral: What is the most painful for me is not that J doesn't want to date me, though I did allow myself to hope, and the letdown is hard. It's that this is where it happens every time. I reach this point where I allow myself to hope that there could be something with someone, and they decide I'm not right for them, that they don't want to date, they meet someone else, whatever. For someone who is already a neurotic dater, it doesn't help at all; it makes it even worse. I am almost 38 years old. I haven't had a serious relationship in 7 years (partially by choice but mainly because no one's been interested), and haven't had sex in that long, either. Believe me when I say that, aside from the neurosis, I am a great person. And the neurosis isn't forever; it goes away. Even J said he recognized it as something which would, with time and a buildup of trust, ease up and he felt that I handled myself appropriately when I felt my emotions were getting too overwhelming (usually I'd say, "Look, I'm sorry, I'm pushing away and I can't text anymore tonight," or whatever). He said he felt it was a sign of a really solid person. I don't know if he's full of BS with all of what he said to me last night, but that was nice to say.

I feel like I need validation. I want someone to tell me that this guy was attracted to me, that it wasn't all my fault, and that he isn't just telling me a giant fib. My mind keeps saying, "If a man wants to be with you, he'll be with you." But the reasons are legit, and I'd rather hear them now than months from now. Of course, I know no one can give me this validation except J. And he said all of the above last night. But when I woke up this morning, in my self-depreciation, I just don't believe it. What I believe is that I need to just quit looking. Throw in the towel. It's a pattern that just keeps on going and I will never, ever be able to date like a normal person. And no one deserves this BS. The one person in a million that I actually finally clicked with and who seemed to be able to handle me with grace decided it's a no. And it's not about him, it's about the fact that I just can't keep putting myself through this--it hurts to much and takes too much too keep pulling myself back up.

That's some fierce red flaggery right there...

I misspoke: He owns them, they just don't work any longer.

I know. And he knows. He's in IT and was paid very well when he was a consultant and traveled 80% of the time (which is the reason he lives with roommates). He is incredibly unhappy in his current job and alluded to the fact that he is considering going back into consulting, which would take him back on the road. So again, all valid stuff especially when you are considering someone like me who is dating to eventually settle down. He'd like to as well, he just doesn't know where. I am not rooted to where I currently live but because of my job, I'm contracted to be here 3 more years.

When he started his online dating account, was he or was he not looking for a relationship?


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Exactly.

He has been single for a year, not even a fling, after being in a 4.5 year relationship (they were engaged). He has been in three very long term relationships and a few shorter ones prior. According to him, prior to this year, he hasn't really been single much of his adult life. And in contrast, I have been single for 7 years. I think we're looking for different experiences.

I should really stop overthinking this and just let it lie. It's gone from "this is where I'm at and I've given you no reason to doubt that what I'm saying is the truth," to he's got some serious ulterior motives, etc. Idk, maybe he didn't tell me the whole truth. Sometimes I think that there are things which could be said which aren't helpful in a given moment. But I don't think he lied to me. I hope he didn't. I don't know.

You know that HALT acronym? I am all of those things--hungry, angry, lonely, and tired. I am not thinking clearly at all plus spiraling. It's not a good combo.

I think it's possible that he wasn't lying, just not realizing about himself what it was that he wanted? Or if he's been in long term relationships, something familiar occurred , in a good way(for you-or not because of the end result) and he feared feeling that same pain again. Speaking from experience here. Not that there's anything that can convince them to take that chance, but it's much better to recognize than thinking of yourself as the flaw in the situation.

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I think you're absolutely correct.

We talked a lot about my borderline mother (weird I know but we talked a lot about his shyt too), the father rejection, and why I get a little crazy with relationships. He understands I'm not clinging to the past but that, as a woman, your mother has a lot to do with how you see yourself as a woman. And he previously dated a borderline for 5 years. He said it can get almost addicting (Idk, I've never dated someone with BPD.) But I was honest in telling him that I see some of my reactions and coping skills in me. I said that I don't believe I am my mother, but that it's there...and then I was like, "Uh oh, I hope you are not reliving the past with me." He said no, he felt that it was certainly not the same with me. We both acknowledge that we push people away. I think he's pushing a little, and I told him so. He sort of acknowledged that he was, but again...his arguments are totally valid. He did a long-distance relationship with his very first gf for 5 of their 10 years. And it ended really badly for him (she cheated on him with his best friend).

I am not trying to convince him to date me, and told him of that esp because his reasons were my initial red flags lol. If I am in a rational mindset, I think he's an honest, kind, and caring person who attempts to understand people rather than making quick judgments. I think he tries too hard to accommodate everyone in his life (specifically family), and that wears on him.
I think he should be alone for a while and figure out what he wants rather than always what someone else wants. I just felt like, okay, you rejected me even though you thought I was awesome but have some stuff and now you're just going to turn around and find someone else and I will be pretty hurt by that. He said he is truly done looking for quite a while.

I should clarify. I'm not necessarily the flaw in this situation, though I can't say for sure because I'm not in his brain. I just saw how I reacted with someone I began to become more and more interested in--the same patterns I've always had, very dysfunctional, very sabotaging, and realized that these things aren't getting fixed and aren't going away. And it's very painful for me to continue to try with men who are far less understanding and patient than J, and it's damaging to the men I unleash the crazy onto. It's more self-preservation than blame, really.

Have you been screened for borderline?


You sound alot like I used to pre-dx and treatment.


Reason I ask is, its hard to battle an unseen enemy. Whereas if it were revealed, you'd know how to combat it.


Just speaking from experience and what worked for me.

I was diagnosed 13 years ago. I was told very recently that (after a lot of work) I no longer meet criteria. I've been downgraded to borderline traits, lol.

Still doesn't mean I'll win all of the battles or fix all of the broken things, though. 4 years ago, I probably would have done something self-destructive to cope with how I felt about my future love life situation. Instead, I allowed myself to have a low-stim day, cried a lot, came on here to type out a long post and, in general, I'm alright. I don't want to hurt myself or die, and while I am sad, I feel like this, like everything else, will pass. Will I be able to navigate a relationship when this sadness passes? Probably not...I really am not just feeling sorry for myself here, this is a choice to stop trying, and I think I'm gonna choose to make it. But I will be okay.

I obviously don't know your history, but there are ways to work around these disruptive traits. Mostly anyway.


I don't textually harass my bf at all anymore, I don't push AS hard, I have different ways of channeling the negatives. They still happen, I just don't subject my bf to it.


Just wanted to let you know that there are alternatives to locking yourself up in the proverbial tower.

40, good job and roommates? Married to a woman or a man or in a committed relationship with either.

This man is not available. But yeah, you do need to work on being less needy/clingy for when an available person comes along.

Heh.. we all have our own crazy battles eh Ruari?

Thanks for the support in the post I made. Figured I return the favor...

Granted I wouldnt know what to say obviously... other than to just wish you the best =/

He's got a good job which requires frequent travel which is why he chose to rent a room instead of a whole apartment. Now that he doesn't travel, he just became complacent both in the roommate situation and in a job he doesn't like at all. He is aware that, as a 40 year old man, he should not be with roommates. And he is seeking a job where he feels validated, and that may just be back in consulting which requires all that travel; he says he knew he was valued and enjoyed what he was doing. Right now, he does not. I think that's absolutely valid. Given all of these things, nope, he's not available. And they are flags which I recognized during the first date, but I think we both enjoyed each other's company, found more and more compatibility and attraction to the point that we'd like to believe these things aren't an issue. But he knows I'm dating to get married someday--at 37, I am not trying to date someone who isn't sure what they want just to be dumped in a year. Maybe he'll find someone who just wants his company for a few months. But that isn't me.

He's not in a relationship with anyone, he ended an engagement a few years ago to someone he'd been with for quite some time after he'd lost 4 people (including his mother and his fiance's father) to cancer. It put a strain on their relationship. He acknowledges he had a bit of a crisis at the time, and he's still trying to heal...he told me some of the not so flattering things he did to try to work that out, lol, he's been pretty transparent about his warts.

I'm calming down from the place I was earlier this evening. We shared a lot of our history with each other, and I care about this person. I don't want him to hang around our city in a job he hates just so we can make a go of it. He would resent me, and he wouldn't be happy. Can we be friends? I don't know. Maybe at some point we can go have a beer and watch some geeky sci-fi movie. I feel like I need time.

And the needy/clingy thing is the point. I'm 37 years old and the anxiety that produces it has not really calmed down by now, I don't think it will. This is why I don't want to do it anymore.

There are alternatives...and I actually attempted to employ them in this case. They worked somewhat and he was very receptive to them, but ultimately it just wasn't going to work. But this is the first man in 7 years who has shown any promising interest. I don't live in an area where many men I'm compatible with are single past the age of 25. I'm okay with the ivory tower. It beats the hospital and screwing someone else's life up for sure.

Bottom line, if you see flags during the first date, work with what you know about yourself (becoming involved emotionally too early) and cut your losses at that point.

Don't entertain 2nd or 3rd dates if it's clear it will get messy for yourself later. Also, all of the background you provided on the "whys" of why he has roommates sounds like HIS excuses. Did he have you at his house where you could meet these "roommates" or look around to see what his living situation is really like?

Online people lie - you know that.

I'd be very skeptical of online dating sites, as many people on those sites are married or in relationships already from what i hear. Just be careful

This is all true.

I am pretty sure he's not married. A quick Google search will tell me that; he's listed on WhitePages. And the emotionally involved thing went both ways. But the more I think about it, the more my BS radar goes off. He probably told me what I wanted to hear in our conversation the other day, which pisses me off. Why is it so hard to be honest with someone who is only asking for that from you? I may be jumping to conclusions, but this is definitely not the first time I've run into the emotional unavailability.

I'm really, really tired of meeting these emotionally unavailable men online. My issues are tough, but they are at least dealt with using some understanding and communication. I can't do anything with emotional unavailability because they just retreat and POOF they're gone...which just makes my issues a teeny bit worse every time.

I just want to throw out there that my husband is an IT consultant. With his current contract, he's gone four days, home three. He's also done two weeks and two weeks, and 100% remote. For us, it works very well. I also know he has some consultant friends that are doing exactly what this guy is doing--living with roommates and traveling a lot. I see nothing sketchy about his arrangement, and I also think this is something that can be easily worked around. I can understand his hesitation, though, especially if he's done long distance and it didn't work out well.

Basically, all I'm saying, is that his work/living situation is not necessarily a red flag.

No, but I think that our goals were different. I am dating to eventually settle down and he's not necessarily in that place quite yet as he has been a serial monogamist for his entire adult life (while I've been a serial single person, haha, dating intermittently). If he already knows I'm looking for a serious thing, my job is soon going to be very busy with crazy hours, and that I'm already obviously showing signs of being a bit needy (which I was; I acknowledged it to him) then it's probably best not to try. Especially if he doesn't know if he's staying in this area of the state or not.

My job is about to be very busy with unpredictable hours. If I'm being rational, between the two things it would have been hard and caused tension.

Thanks for the input.

Ruari, I'm most likely older than you and I have a lot of experience with online dating in the past. I'm not saying there aren't great people out there, but to me, it seemed like it draws emotionally unavailable people just from the way one "meets" someone, the initial communication and even the beginning dating.

It's different from being able to observe someone out of the artificial "dating" persona (like if you met someone at work or anywhere else in real life).

The big plus where you're concerned is you KNOW who you are and what you're looking for. Continue trying to meet people, but use that knowledge of yourself to weed out people who aren't likely to meet your needs or who otherwise don't seem to have their **** together, KWIM?

It's far more likely that you'll weed out time-wasters and liars than genuinely good guys. Nobody should need to make long explanations about why they live with roommates at 40 or similar.

FYI: I've found a treasure trove of free information by searching court records (marriage/divorce, civil/criminal) in the county of their residence. I once discovered a person I had been dating was still legally married. Very useful information to weed out liars.

IMO, nothing wrong with you at all.

Oh, lordy. I read your post.. I spent about 10 years on the dating sites. First thing I learned, they didn't want to spend a lot of time communicating thru email. They didn't want a lot of discussion about emotional history or even about philosophy of life, etc. I wanted to email and learn about the person. They wanted my phone # and an upfront meeting right away. I accommodated, to my regret! I allowed myself to become involved with them, despite misgivings.

You are very smart, obvious from your post! You also have the ability to meet someone who is worthwhile, but I'm not sure you will be able to do this online. There is this online dating etiquette, and it's fast and aggressive. I liken it to throwing a hook into the ocean and pulling out who knows what kind of monster.

It is too your intelligence and credit that you never became intimately involved with this man. That's a whole other bag of worms that opens up much more insecurity. You are a strong woman. I admire you!

Also, you are young! 37 is young! You can and probably will meet someone, friend, just maybe not on the dating sites!

I don't reply to the men who give me their phone number immediately. J and I were communicating almost daily over email for about a week and a half before he asked me if I wanted to have dinner the following week, and when I had to reschedule due to having stomach flu (gross lol), he was incredibly gracious, rescheduled immediately, and gave me his phone number at that point so that we could just text instead of continuing to communicate through email. But no, he wasn't very open in email communication. I gently called him out at one point. He told me that his lack of questions weren't a sign of lack of interest, he was afraid to come on too strong. He said that his experience with online dating was relatively short and he'd had experience coming on too strong, not strong enough, too needy, not interested enough, and wasn't sure where the balance was. I can understand that, especially if he's been doing it for even a year. Heck, I've been doing it on and off for a decade and I don't totally know where the balance is.

At his core, this is a good guy who has good intentions. He is not emotionally available. But he is not a bad guy, and he's not married (lol). He's someone who volunteers regularly, helped three friends through hospice, and from what I can tell reading between the lines of what he tells me, takes on a lot of familial responsibility that he shouldn't. He has some healing to do from some loss, and I think he would benefit from a T. I think that Molinit is right, there are a lot of emotionally unavailable men online (I've met many of them) and I think they are looking for healing within a relationship when they should be in counseling. I wish I hadn't been the one he chose to try to get close to and then had a failure-to-launch, but we had chemistry and as he even said, it's nice to find that mutuality with someone. I'm mad at him, and I think he needs to get it together, but I don't think he meant to hurt me and I don't think he's malicious. I think he's like any of us, just looking for connection.