[xRavenx]

My boyfriend, who I may not reconcile with, and I talked last night after a few days of me having minimal to no contact with him. I expressed that I was still hurt and betrayed by what I found out over the weekend (I wrote a previous post about it here). I was calm when I talked to him, but still firm about being hurt. He kept saying he would do anything to make me happy, but he has hurt me pretty bad more than once, so naturally I have my doubts.

Plus, the incident involving webcams brought back past trauma and general feeling of being betrayed. I told him this, and he was understanding of me being hurt, but he kept asking if I can meet him for lunch. He said he wanted to get closer to me and he missed the closer intimacy with me, which I was clear I was not capable of giving him to the degree he wanted since it took a lot to trust him all over again since the first time we broke up. I wasn't expected to be pressured like that, and I don't do well with pressure. I blurted out I would think about it, but did not feel comfortable.

Later that night, I texted him that I don't feel comfortable meeting at this time. The next day, he sent me a "Good Morning" text, trying to be cute. I sent something brief and said I was still feeling hurt, but I'd talk to him later. He didn't respond to that text. However, I did not talk to him today nor did he attempt to, and I have something to do tomorrow where I do not want to have any emotional talks.

Maybe he's gotten the point to stay away, but I have read how the silent treatment is passive-aggressive, and I don't want to hurt him in that way, although I'm upset. By me not contacting him, I'm protecting myself by giving myself space since talking to him is rather triggering. However, if he were to call, I would not deliberately ignore him. I'm just not initiating. Am I in the wrong to withdraw for a while? I'm just not ready to update him more on how I'm actually feeling worse, not better.

Silent treatment is only passive aggressive if you're in a relationship.

Maybe he's looking for forgiveness because of a hurt ego...?

So..no. You are not wrong. In fact it's the right thing to do whether you get back together in the future or not.

[hvert]

No, you are not wrong for taking space for yourself. I read your other thread. The push/pull, hot/cold can be very difficult to take. Breathing room may help you figure out what you really want to do here.

ETA: I read the wrong thread at first, just saw the right one. Take allllll the time you need and do not feel bad about it!

[xRavenx]

Originally Posted by sophiesmom

Silent treatment is only passive aggressive if you're in a relationship.

Maybe he's looking for forgiveness because of a hurt ego...?

So..no. You are not wrong. In fact it's the right thing to do whether you get back together in the future or not.

Yes, I never intentionally stopped texting him. I withdrew, but I'm open at the right time to talking to him again, so I'm not being deliberately passive. I do think he's looking for forgiveness, but I have more thinking to do. I have doubts about our relationship, but he's aware. Hopefully he can understand that. Sometimes silence can send mixed messages, which is why I posted out of concern for how I was coming off, but that's just me overanalyzing.

[Bill3]

Maybe he's gotten the point to stay away, but I have read how the silent treatment is passive-aggressive, and I don't want to hurt him in that way, although I'm upset. By me not contacting him, I'm protecting myself by giving myself space since talking to him is rather triggering.

To me, the key is your intention in withdrawing.

Wanting solitude and therefore being silent is not passive-aggressive.

Silence whose purpose is to hurt the other person is passive-aggressive.

[gayleggg]

You are not wrong to need a little space, but in the end you have to face the issues. Just know that when people show you who they are believe them. If he has hurt you many times he's probably not going to change.

[unaluna]

Why are you worried about your silent treatment being too harsh, when your trying to control his personal sex life is even more harsh? Maybe it would help you to look at sex in three parts - yours, his, and both together. Even the both together could be in 3 parts - sometimes concentrate on you, sometimes on him, sometimes just for the fun of it . I get the feeling its always about you, and its never fun, and you dont even want him to have fun on his own. No fun allowed!

[divine1966]

I am confused. How is it being monogamous "controlling"? By this logic cheating should be ok because otherwise it's controlling. If bf finds sex with op "not fun" or "all about her" then leaving is a valid option. Doing things on web cam isn't the only option.

[xRavenx]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Why are you worried about your silent treatment being too harsh, when your trying to control his personal sex life is even more harsh? Maybe it would help you to look at sex in three parts - yours, his, and both together. Even the both together could be in 3 parts - sometimes concentrate on you, sometimes on him, sometimes just for the fun of it . I get the feeling its always about you, and its never fun, and you dont even want him to have fun on his own. No fun allowed!

That's not true. I never said no fun is allowed. I do know how to enjoy myself. I just use this forum to vent about the stuff that bothers me and how my trauma is triggered. I come here for support....not for people to assume that no fun is allowed when you've never been around me, let alone in the bedroom with me. It's not always about me....if anything, I'm a major people pleaser in bed and otherwise. Combine mania and blocking out stuff from trauma....you get the picture, or at least you should. Now, things are coming down and hitting me hard. It's sad that you think I'm trying to "control" his sex life, when it should be about BOTH of us. Not just him. I'm finally once and for all thinking about myself.

He's never said anything about not having fun. Quite the contrary, and we've had a lot of variety in our sex life, and he's always expressed that it has been a lot of fun. The only issue here is the webcam issue. Part of the reason I was betrayed was that I though everything was fine since I've always went out of my way to make sure he's having a good time. Not that it was ever a burden....it always pleased me to please him up until this whole incident, and everything was reciprocal in that area.

I find your post offensive, and you aren't aware of my experiences. Fun is welcomed, but I draw the line with the webcamming with others. I actually still have sex that is good and fun on both sides, but I DON'T think about myself enough. You should be ashamed of yourself for not knowing even an ounce of the truth or half of what I'm trying to convey and passing judgment on me when I am revealing my emotions in the most vulnerable state possible, as I have gone through a lot of trauma that apparently you don't even care to begin to understand, so I'm clueless as to why you are posting in the first place. I don't come here to be judged and it took a lot for me to express how I feel without thinking about pleasing others all the time in all situations.

I'm at my breaking point. I'm someone who likes feedback. Your assumptions are asinine, and if you don't know all the facts, then you shouldn't include such offensive, judgmental, and triggering feedback without knowing the whole story. I thought this was a Psych forum where others show understanding and empathy while giving feedback that is constructive, yet supportive, and I don't think I'm in the wrong for having a different belief than you when it comes to what qualifies as a betrayal in my relationship.

Take all the time you need and if he loves you he will wait years for intimacy if that's what it takes to earn back your trust. Feel no guilt for taking a break from this situation, gathering your thoughts, owning your reactions and emotions and giving yourself permission to take time to heal. Whatever you decide will be what is best for you and making sure you are comfortable and confident with your decision is paramount. (((Hugs))).

[xRavenx]

Originally Posted by ElsaMars

Take all the time you need and if he loves you he will wait years for intimacy if that's what it takes to earn back your trust. Feel no guilt for taking a break from this situation, gathering your thoughts, owning your reactions and emotions and giving yourself permission to take time to heal. Whatever you decide will be what is best for you and making sure you are comfortable and confident with your decision is paramount. (((Hugs))).

Thank you. ((HUGS)). You hit the nail on the head as far as what I need right now as far as needing space from the situation and time to heal before considering going out with him again. I want him to realize this goes further beyond what he did....it triggered how it took a long time to trust him before this happened.

I know it will hurt him to hear I don't want to see him for a while since he did ask me to do lunch and he admitted to some hurt when I asked for space, although he did show understanding and concern that I was feeling hurt. He seemed to push for more intimacy after this incident, but he's going to have to realize why I must pull away. I hate hurting him, but I guess I need to trust my heart.

He is still determined to be there, and I care about him, but I'm going to remind him that it's too hard on me emotionally to see him right now based on trust issues and other things, and I need a break. He has a tendency to still text cute messages/pictures and things, but it makes me more upset. I will tell him not to put his life on hold for me and if we cannot be together in the future, but I do hope that no matter what happens, I can maintain a friendship with him even if it will take time. I guess time will tell, but yes, I need to be alone.

[Bill3]

he admitted to some hurt when I asked for space

Perhaps this hurt will help him realize that there are consequences to selfish, hurtful actions and in the future he will make better decisions.

[unaluna]

I think you misunderstood me.

You can choose to draw the line in your relationhip wherever you want. But it sounded like you were unsure the webcam was the line, if he didnt immediately agree to it.

Its like, thats the problem with giving someone an ultimatum - what if they call you on it? There is no room for talking about it. Now i understand what you were saying, space vs silent treatment.

I do have a problem with you trying to control what he does in his free private time alone - i dont understand how this hurts you. He needs his space too.

Really im not judging you. I appreciate the difficulty of determining if a person is trustworthy or if he is rushing and pushing you blindly into a decision that meets his own needs.

[MickeyCheeky]

I think it's perfecty ok to take your time and space... you have to take care of yourself! And I don't think you're being harsh tbh. You explained him your situation honestly and that's the best you can do at the moment.
So please, don't feel guilty about it ((xRavenx))

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I think you misunderstood me.

You can choose to draw the line in your relationhip wherever you want. But it sounded like you were unsure the webcam was the line, if he didnt immediately agree to it.

Its like, thats the problem with giving someone an ultimatum - what if they call you on it? There is no room for talking about it. Now i understand what you were saying, space vs silent treatment.

I do have a problem with you trying to control what he does in his free private time alone - i dont understand how this hurts you. He needs his space too.

Really im not judging you. I appreciate the difficulty of determining if a person is trustworthy or if he is rushing and pushing you blindly into a decision that meets his own needs.

I really don't understand you and we usually agree on things but you don't think doing something in ones private time could be bad for a relationship? So cheating isn't hurtful or you don't consider it cheating? So if cheating is only penetration?

We value each other's private time, but com'n now! My husband is currrently watching corniest stupidest movie ( the one I'd never watch)in a spare room and loudly laughs. Certainly it doesnt hurt me. I am going to dinner with my girlfriends tonight. Again it's my private time. Certainly doesn't hurt him, in fact he is happy I'll have fun.

But if he was laughing in a spare bedroom because he is jerking off watching naked girl on webcam or I was going on a date with s guy tonight and we would be playing footsie under the table and have sex talk , it would be entirely different "private time". It wouldn't be ok in any shape! Even if no intercourse

Also maybe such activity is considered ok for you but it clearly isn't ok for OP! It wouldn't be ok for me either. I actually don't think I would go on with a guy. I would be too grossed out. Now if they are just friends who are shacking up then it's all right. But she referred to him as bf!

Ps also he wasn't alone in his private time but engaged in sexual activity with another person, other than OP.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I really don't understand you and we usually agree on things but you don't think doing something in ones private time could be bad for a relationship? So cheating isn't hurtful or you don't consider it cheating? So if cheating is only penetration?

We value each other's private time, but com'n now! My husband is currrently watching corniest stupidest movie ( the one I'd never watch)in a spare room and loudly laughs. Certainly it doesnt hurt me. I am going to dinner with my girlfriends tonight. Again it's my private time. Certainly doesn't hurt him, in fact he is happy I'll have fun.

But if he was laughing in a spare bedroom because he is jerking off watching naked girl on webcam or I was going on a date with s guy tonight and we would be playing footsie under the table and have sex talk , it would be entirely different "private time". It wouldn't be ok in any shape! Even if no intercourse

Also maybe such activity is considered ok for you but it clearly isn't ok for OP! It wouldn't be ok for me either. I actually don't think I would go on with a guy. I would be too grossed out. Now if they are just friends who are shacking up then it's all right. But she referred to him as bf!

Ps also he wasn't alone in his private time but engaged in sexual activity with another person, other than OP.

I agree with you, but they are not married. I object more to the ultimatum aspect, that she feels she has the right to decree. To object and discuss is one thing; but to think you have the right to say, that hurts me so you must stop - i dont agree.

He is not touching her, and he is not touching another person, so no danger of bringing home disease.

A man can tell a woman, it hurts me if you work, so you must stay home. Or it hurts me if you wear certain clothes, good or bad. So whats the difference then? It is still coercion.

I am not sure if the problem is coercion in general, or the webcam in specific. I dont think it is just the webcam.

[Apokolips]

It's not about disease it's about a betrayal of trust. It's about going behind your partners back and engaging in sexual activity with someone other then their partner. He wasn't chatting with a friend or a family member, he was engaging in a sexual act with a person outside of their relationship. They don't need to be married. This isn't like asking someone not to wear booty shorts to a family picinic. This is about someone going behind their partners back to dirty talk and wave his danglies at a person who he is not currently dating.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I agree with you, but they are not married. I object more to the ultimatum aspect, that she feels she has the right to decree. To object and discuss is one thing; but to think you have the right to say, that hurts me so you must stop - i dont agree.

He is not touching her, and he is not touching another person, so no danger of bringing home disease.

A man can tell a woman, it hurts me if you work, so you must stay home. Or it hurts me if you wear certain clothes, good or bad. So whats the difference then? It is still coercion.

I am not sure if the problem is coercion in general, or the webcam in specific. I dont think it is just the webcam.

We just have to agree to disagree.

Married or not, if they discussed and agreed to exclusive relationship then fidelity is as important as in marriage (for me). I consider it infidelity.

I don't know about ultimatums. In general if he is the type to do webcaming he isn't the type for me. I wouldn't be coercing. I would be gone. We all have rights to choose our deal breakers. For me it would be a deal breaker, op is apprehensive and you consider its acceptable.

I don't understand what you mean her "having no rights to say he has to stop". If he has rights to webcam then she has rights to say whatever she needs to say. Seems double standard to me. Like his rights are more important.

And there is more to cheating than disease.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Apokolips

It's not about disease it's about a betrayal of trust. It's about going behind your partners back and engaging in sexual activity with someone other then their partner. He wasn't chatting with a friend or a family member, he was engaging in a sexual act with a person outside of their relationship. They don't need to be married. This isn't like asking someone not to wear booty shorts to a family picinic. This is about someone going behind their partners back to dirty talk and wave his danglies at a person who he is not currently dating.

Him doing it in secret is a key here. If it's all good and dandy and he thought it's ok thing to do, he'd do it right in front of her or made it well known. The guy knows it is not ok

[divine1966]

If only touching makes it cheating would that be ok then if a boyfriend meets with women in hotel rooms in secret and they are both naked doing mutual masturbation? If there is no touching and he can't bring home disease, then it should be ok because he does what he wants in his private time and no one has rights to tell him to stop? Beyond ridiculous!

[xRavenx]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I agree with you, but they are not married. I object more to the ultimatum aspect, that she feels she has the right to decree. To object and discuss is one thing; but to think you have the right to say, that hurts me so you must stop - i dont agree.

He is not touching her, and he is not touching another person, so no danger of bringing home disease.

A man can tell a woman, it hurts me if you work, so you must stay home. Or it hurts me if you wear certain clothes, good or bad. So whats the difference then? It is still coercion.

I am not sure if the problem is coercion in general, or the webcam in specific. I dont think it is just the webcam.

We were nearly married: engaged, planning a wedding. Plus, there was a lot of much deeper personal history between us I have not shared here, because it would take way too long to get into. This was not our first time being in a relationship together..... We went through a break up of 2.5 years and I gave it a shot again but I'm realizing now that I've been pushing all the stuff he's done aside and given him another chance, but those doubts were suppressed, then came out through this. So this hurtful action (and he had knowledge it would hurt me if it came out...and it did), brought up all the past wounds in the relationship.

So this triggered not only my personal past with others but with him and the pain he's caused. Maybe I was stupid for getting back with him to begin with. Maybe my patterns are unhealthy. All I know is I'm a wreck now. That's all. I don't even know if I'm making sense anymore, and I think I'm going to end up in the hospital if I don't chill out.

I finally broke it off today. It was hard, because I knew he was working on all the things he's done in the past, and he can be extremely nurturing and loving. I've had enough though over the years of what I've been through. I realized as much as I was trying to trust him with different things, he can't take it all back no matter how he tries. There is a limit. I'm crying as I write this, but hopefully time will heal.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I don't know about ultimatums. In general if he is the type to do webcaming he isn't the type for me. I wouldn't be coercing. I would be gone. We all have rights to choose our deal breakers. For me it would be a deal breaker, op is apprehensive and you consider its acceptable.

I agree with you here. I am not saying it would be acceptable to me. I am not saying it would be unacceptable. I really dont know, i am not in this situation.

If something is a dealbreaker, okay. You dont want that in your life. You take responsibility for that.

But i dont think it is right to say, i feel hurt by that action, therefore you must stop it. Because that can become abusive, or intrusive. And then the other person starts lying to you because they feel you are being unreasonable. Then what do you have?

Some people say, "i dont care where my spouse gets their appetite, as long as they always have dinner at home."

Eta - sorry, we cross posted.

[xRavenx]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I agree with you here. I am not saying it would be acceptable to me. I am not saying it would be unacceptable. I really dont know, i am not in this situation.

If something is a dealbreaker, okay. You dont want that in your life. You take responsibility for that.

But i dont think it is right to say, i feel hurt by that action, therefore you must stop it. Because that can become abusive, or intrusive. And then the other person starts lying to you because they feel you are being unreasonable. Then what do you have?

Some people say, "i dont care where my spouse gets their appetite, as long as they always have dinner at home."

It is a dealbreaker for me. He can do whatever he wants now. I never wanted to say "stop doing something for me" because you can't change someone. I was just hurt is all.

[Apokolips]

I don't really see how asking someone not to do something that you have already discussed as hurtful, and is more than a bit over the line of infidelity would be considered controlling if someone is in a monogamous relationship. If the relationship was an open one yes that would be controlling but if you have agreed to commit to each other then commit and if you cannot then you probably shouldn't be in a committed relationship. It is not at all abusive or controlling to insist that someone does not cheat on their partner. The op considers this to be tantamount to cheating and who are you to suggest otherwise?

[divine1966]

I am so sorry for your hurt raven. You'll be ok in a long run. Just give it time. Grieve and move on