Growing up, I learned not to express disatisfaction with my mom. It just wouldn't get me anywhere. Her will was very strong. My younger brother and sister laugh about how they would always be stuck at the table for hours. When my mom left the table, I would hide my vegtables in a napkin and flush them down the toilet saying I had eaten them. Because of their honesty, they stayed at the table until it was time to go to bed knowing what I had done. They sometimes still remind me that they would endure torture while I took shortcuts.

But shortcuts do not help you in the long run. I frequently am afraid to tell my husband what I think. Many times when I do tell him, it leads to disagreements, so, once again, I am taking the easy way out. But it is not really the easy way. Our marriage does not feel free or healthy. There have been many times I have not stood up for my children the way I should have. I am not loving my husband properly when I am not truthful to him. I am totally lacking in character. Sometimes I want to divorce him but do not admit it. My theory is I am afraid to tell him what I think/leave because I really deserve no relationship/love at all because I am not really that loving. If you love someone you stand up for them. Maybe I am incapable of it. So because I am not right--my whole family is dysfunctional, can never be happy. I am a naturally friendly person on a shallow level but am incapable of being consistently intimate in a truly deep way.

I have been trying to be more honest with my H, will have a brief breakthrough but then am always easily falling back into my old ways. It is SO hard to change. I will keep trying but do not know if I will every really become a whole, mature person. I am not quite right.

[MickeyCheeky]

I think it's great that you're acknowledging your flaws. That is the first step for healing. As hard as it may look like, please keep trying. Changes don't happen in a day, so take it a little step at the time. When you make some progress, acknowledge it. Maybe keep a diary?

Have you tried couple counselling in the past? How did it go?

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

I think it's great that you're acknowledging your flaws. That is the first step for healing. As hard as it may look like, please keep trying. Changes don't happen in a day, so take it a little step at the time. When you make some progress, acknowledge it. Maybe keep a diary?

Have you tried couple counselling in the past? How did it go?

We have not tried it. My H has mentioned it a couple of times during fights (not recent ones) but always has the caveot that the counseling is for me--that I am the one with the problem. Whenever I do not tell him what I think/ keep my mouth shut -- he feels like we are getting along marvelously! I get a lot of positive reinforcement when I try to be the person he wants rather than expressing how I really feel.

I have been tracking my progress through journaling, posting here, PMs and other writing. I have only come to realize what my problem is because of all the writing I have done since my attempt. Writing has been my therapy. I cannot afford to go to therapy enough (I am so twisted I would have to go everyday) to fix myself. I need to spend my money else where. Thankfully, PC is free!!

Because I have stayed married to him for 30 years, my husband must be giving me something I lack. Once, when I tried to bring myself to leave him, I was finding myself going over the edge--I was getting paranoid, delusional, having panic attacks. It was rough because he was being stern with me to keep us from divorcing but alot of it all came from within me. I fear I would not know how to function without him if I left. I married him because he is mostly loving and has helped me cope with many things but in so many things he insists his POV is the only true version of the way the world is/should be. I made this thread certain he will read it. (When I post at PC, it still seems like he brings the subject up with 12 hours of my posting it. ) So in a way, I am using this thread to try to open up to him. Or is it just delusion/paranoia that he still follows. He definitely gaslighted me about not reading my posts once--finally admitting it when I confronted him with the things he was saying and how they were matching my posts. He has since said that was a one time thing but the incident fuels my paranoia of him.

Honestly, this does not seem healthy. To pretend to be someone you're not to your husband, to hold back your true feelings and/or opinions, him reading your PC posts, and you trying to open up to him in this passive and indirect way. Why not be direct with him? What are you afraid of?

Originally Posted by golden_eve

Why not be direct with him? What are you afraid of?

Of confrontation? Of divorce? That I will have a mental breakdown in an extended confrontation/divorce? That I cannot win in any argument I have with him so why go throught the pain?

Also, the timing seems wrong (yet I posted this! ) my H is worried about his mom's health right now. It is making him more irritable because he really loves her.....

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

Of confrontation? Of divorce? That I will have a mental breakdown in an extended confrontation/divorce? That I cannot win in any argument I have with him so why go throught the pain?

Also, the timing seems wrong (yet I posted this! ) my H is worried about his mom's health right now. It is making him more irritable because he really loves her.....

If he is always right in an argument, then those arguments are not fair. That is not healthy. Do you feel he is controlling of you? And abusive towards you? Gaslighting is a form of abuse. Him reading the forum is rather controlling..... controlling relationships are abusive relationships. I don't know if yours is, but that's always the case.

[TishaBuv]

It’s funny you said you have no character.

I’ve been thinking lately about this leadership program I was in a couple years ago. The teacher, who was the president of the association, had us all shake her hands. She wanted to critique how we shake hands. She shook my hand and told me, in front of the whole class, that I had no character

I calmly reacted saying “I have character” and let it go. The rest of the class was shocked she said such an awful thing.

I wonder, could she be right? Could she have ascertained that from a handshake?

What makes you think you have no character? What does having character mean and what ways do you have character?

And— I kicked azz in that class with my leadership skills, going beyond what they expected and doing something that gave a feather in the cap for the whole association! Getting no thanks and no respect ultimately. Who has character now biotch???

Originally Posted by golden_eve

If he is always right in an argument, then those arguments are not fair. That is not healthy. Do you feel he is controlling of you? And abusive towards you? Gaslighting is a form of abuse. Him reading the forum is rather controlling..... controlling relationships are abusive relationships. I don't know if yours is, but that's always the case.

This post was actually triggered by another incident/confrontation at home yesterday/last night. It is something that is personal (and involves more than just me--I don't feel right discussing details) but is something that is a consistent trigger for me. We did discuss it this morning. My H said (paraphrasing the meaning), it is going to be my way or I am going (implying divorce separation). What do I do? I propose delaying what he proposes we do. It is not in my nature to disagree/ be confrontational. I suppose I do not always hide how I feel but I sugar coat everything rather than being completely frank.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

This post was actually triggered by another incident/confrontation at home yesterday/last night. It is something that is personal (and involves more than just me--I don't feel right discussing details) but is something that is a consistent trigger for me. We did discuss it this morning. My H said (paraphrasing the meaning), it is going to be my way or I am going (implying divorce separation). What do I do? I propose delaying what he proposes we do. It is not in my nature to disagree/ be confrontational. I suppose I do not always hide how I feel but I sugar coat everything rather than being completely frank.

Don’t let the door hit you in the azz!

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

It’s funny you said you have no character.

I’ve been thinking lately about this leadership program I was in a couple years ago. The teacher, who was the president of the association, had us all shake her hands. She wanted to critique how we shake hands. She shook my hand and told me, in front of the whole class, that I had no character

I calmly reacted saying “I have character” and let it go. The rest of the class was shocked she said such an awful thing.

I wonder, could she be right? Could she have ascertained that from a handshake?

What makes you think you have no character? What does having character mean and what ways do you have character?

And— I kicked azz in that class with my leadership skills, going beyond what they expected and doing something that gave a feather in the cap for the whole association! Getting no thanks and no respect ultimately. Who has character now biotch???

To me, having character means standing up to bullies. I have mostly tried to do this but whenever I have it has caused me extreme anxiety and I have lost many more times than I have won.

It also means being kind to people who are hurting and helping those in need. I do this naturally on a shallow level but have not always sacrificed for others when the price was too steep for me.

Of course, we can always aim to become better people. I don't pray for material things -- I pray to be a better person.

[TishaBuv]

Get tough, mama bear. I’d go ballistic to protect my cubs.

[divine1966]

So he says you either do things his way or he’d divorce you? What a ...... suggest he starts packing his suitcases or you pack yours. Gee. He has the nerve!

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

This post was actually triggered by another incident/confrontation at home yesterday/last night. It is something that is personal (and involves more than just me--I don't feel right discussing details) but is something that is a consistent trigger for me. We did discuss it this morning. My H said (paraphrasing the meaning), it is going to be my way or I am going (implying divorce separation). What do I do? I propose delaying what he proposes we do. It is not in my nature to disagree/ be confrontational. I suppose I do not always hide how I feel but I sugar coat everything rather than being completely frank.

He said it's his way or he leaves????? That is fundamentally not right and not OK. A truly loving relationships is a two-way street, always!!! Both partners need to respect the other's need to be heard and respected. It seems he does not allow you to be heard and respected.

Hon, I would think twice about staying with this controlling H of yours. This is very controlling behavior. Abuse is always about control. That is very manipulative on his part.. he is not giving you a voice in this relationship. I wouldn't want to stay if it were me, but I understand how hard that can be after 30 years of marriage. (((Hugs)))

[TishaBuv]

And that reminds me, my h was envious that I gave too much attention to the kids for his liking. He was jealous of the kids.

There are mothers where the h comes first over the kids. I am one where the kids come first.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by golden_eve

He said it's his way or he leaves????? That is fundamentally not right and not OK. A truly loving relationships is a two-way street, always!!! Both partners need to respect the other's need to be heard and respected. It seems he does not allow you to be heard and respected.

Hon, I would think twice about staying with this controlling H of yours. This is very controlling behavior. Abuse is always about control. That is very manipulative on his part.. he is not giving you a voice in this relationship. I wouldn't want to stay if it were me, but I understand how hard that can be after 30 years of marriage. (((Hugs)))

Eve- you are in the looking for the right guy for a LT relationship. Just to point out to you, I don’t know anybody who has a really healthy relationship. There is so much dysfunction to put up with, at best quirkiness to handle. Partners are never ideal (at least no one I know). We make such compromises.

Originally Posted by divine1966

So he says you either do things his way or he’d divorce you? What a ...... suggest he starts packing his suitcases or you pack yours. Gee. He has the nerve!

I never even think this!?! Though sometimes I have thought it would be a relief but have come to find out after fight after fight that he does not mean it. He really doesn't want me to leave.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

There are mothers where the h comes first over the kids. I am one where the kids come first.

Agree. Especially young kids who need ton of attention!

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

I never even think this!?! Though sometimes I have thought it would be a relief but have come to find out after fight after fight that he does not mean it. He really doesn't want me to leave.

Of course he doesn’t. But he uses it as manipulation

[Patagonia]

So much on this thread that I can relate to Hopingtrying, trying to deal with my own SO. Trying to get my power & footing back.
Yes worry about timing, confrontations, if my opinion really matters or is even correct..? I do understand how it feels to lack courage. Take little steps & hang on to them. Keep us posted how things go.

[eskielover]

I have ALWAYS been a fighter at home with my parents & in my marriage from the very beginning & it IS NOT a good habbit to grt into either. A middle ground is best but I understand why I did it & would do it over just with better diplimstic fighting skills.

Bith my parents & my H had/have minds that didn't function normally & they would get things in their mind & insist they were right when anyone observing them knew they were no where close to reality or say the reality in only hslf light. Even as a yiung kid I couldn't tolerate that crap when I knew it was wrong so I confronted it every time. It didn't change because of the way thrir brains function but at least I didn't silently listen to their crap & let them think they were being agreed with. My H actually commented that fighting with me was pointless because I was always proved right in the long run.....it didn't stop the fights or even make him think through whst he said before opening his mouth. I found that education or lack of it doesn't make sny difference with brains that function thst way.

Honestly divorce is a blessing in my situation & even thkugh I loved my parents, the stress level lessened immensly after their deaths.

It is miserable to fight then again miserable not to express yourself in a very difficult relationship... some relationships are just lose/lose no matter what.

[Onward2wards]

Sadly, some people only seem to know how to intimidate, invalidate, shame and manipulate others. Anyone can probably do that under enough stress, too. I think it happens a lot more than we like to think. We can be a vicious species sometimes - perhaps out of vulnerability, ignorance or desperation as much as malignant intent? I'm not a psychoanalyst, just curious (and partly out of self-preservation, tbh!)

This can do a lot of damage. I am reminded of concepts in Schema Therapy known as Subjugation, Defectiveness, Ostracism, and Incompetency schemas. I suspect any of these could have their origins in being psychologically "overpowered" or manipulated in the past, and variants of such experiences.

[WhatsNextNow]

Your husband knows he can say certain things to you. How about thinking about something you could say to him when he throws out the ' my way or the highway ' that he would expect from you. Practice before you say it for when the opportunity comes up, because it sounds like it will, again and again. People who know they can, aren't ready for a calm and direct response that shows them the other person knows they should,'t be treated the way they are. Not knowing your support system, only you can decide how much you can say, and when.

Originally Posted by Onward2wards

Sadly, some people only seem to know how to intimidate, invalidate, shame and manipulate others. Anyone can probably do that under enough stress, too. I think it happens a lot more than we like to think. We can be a vicious species sometimes - perhaps out of vulnerability, ignorance or desperation as much as malignant intent? I'm not a psychoanalyst, just curious (and partly out of self-preservation, tbh!)

This can do a lot of damage. I am reminded of concepts in Schema Therapy known as Subjugation, Defectiveness, Ostracism, and Incompetency schemas. I suspect any of these could have their origins in being psychologically "overpowered" or manipulated in the past, and variants of such experiences.

I googled and came across a list of Schema-Focused Relationship Problems (https://www.newharbinger.com/psychso...nship-problems). Interesting way to think about my problem. It said "...The theme of these problems often remains the same over time and repeats itself in different types of relationships... " I totally realize I am trying to break myself free from a negative pattern that has developed between H and me. When he does certain things it triggers so much negativity within me then it can take me a while to settle myself down--I never thought of myself as a neurotic person but feel like he has brought this trait out in me. When my mom made me feel this way, I would stay in my room or take off by myself (hiking/horsebackriding/etc) but there have not been many breaks from my H. I have not cultivated other friendships and he has always wanted to be with me all of the time. We eat three meals together, I walk with him rather than by myself, etc. It is sweet that he wants to spend so much time with me but taking off and being alone was how I coped with my mom's criticism and strictness and my H has always discouraged me from taking off for very long. He even likes to go to the store with me whenever I go. Before my attempt, he would drive me to and pick me up from work. Having no breaks from this man is exhausting even though he means well. My mom meant well too. They both are/were very controlling because they want to ensure good outcomes but when you treat people that way they feel less free/happy.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Eve- you are in the looking for the right guy for a LT relationship. Just to point out to you, I don’t know anybody who has a really healthy relationship. There is so much dysfunction to put up with, at best quirkiness to handle. Partners are never ideal (at least no one I know). We make such compromises.

Tisha, yes, of course I want a healthy relationship. What are you saying here? That all relationships are dysfunctional so one must accept this and settle for less? I don't agree at all. No, of course no partner is ideal, but from what it sounds like, Hoping's husband is very controlling. Are you saying she should just put up with this and accept his controlling ways? I hope not. I've seen people with healthy relationships. They exist. Not all relationships are dysfuntional. And to accept dysfunction is doing a disservice to oneself and to one's mental health!

And this thread is not about me, it is about the OP. Let's make the focus on her, not me.